...Murder-suicides in Brookfield, Kansas City...
[News] Several killed in Connecticut Elementary School Shooting
- Thread starter Charlie Don't Surf
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In Israel in the 1970s they had a mass shooting in response they out armed citizen guard in the school. There only shooting since was 2002 when the citizen guard killed a mass shooter
Maybe if we just pray it'll all get better!
A relative suggested on Facebook that if there was still school prayer, this wouldn't have happened.
A relative suggested on Facebook that if there was still school prayer, this wouldn't have happened.
North_Ranger
Staff member
...and how about asking those people to shut up out of respect for the victims and their families?
Same here from several people on my feed. I want to throttle them all.Maybe if we just pray it'll all get better!
A relative suggested on Facebook that if there was still school prayer, this wouldn't have happened.
Zappit
Staff member
Don't waste your time and effort doing that. It'll only lead to early onset arthritis.
I've heard every 'solution' under the sun. Ban guns, allow everyone to carry guns, etc. I don't know the answer which will solve this insane problem our country seems to have. All I know is there are 20 6-7 year olds who will never get to experience a first kiss, feel disappointment, or see another sunrise.
Off Tumblr.
Newsy link for this because I never trust tumblr or facebook.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/dec/15/sandy-hook-teacher-victoria-soto
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/dec/15/sandy-hook-teacher-victoria-soto
I do not agree that hugging your kids will do nothing, as anything to do with helping them understand this tragedy (if they're old enough to understand) does help. The rest of the quote is highly correct though.
Which sadly is the point some try to make but fail pretty hard in their execution.
I'm not gonna lie, I'm a terribly jaded person to tragedy. Terribly.
I teared up reading that article.
Zappit
Staff member
The oldest children murdered was 7. The youngest ones were six. Jesus. And gun nuts are already rushing out self-righteous indignation that their toys of mass destruction aren't at fault. Many others are saying the teachers should own guns. They neglect that one did, and her nutjob bastard ratfuck son used them to massacre a roomful of tiny children. Makes me physically ill.
Congress will probably be as impotent on this as ever.
There will probably be massive absenteeism this coming school week as parents will worry about copycats. I don't blame them. These worthless killers always try to one-up each other.
Congress will probably be as impotent on this as ever.
There will probably be massive absenteeism this coming school week as parents will worry about copycats. I don't blame them. These worthless killers always try to one-up each other.
Dave
Staff member
And this, I think, is a wonderful blog post from a mother with a mentally ill son. Don't let the title fool you. It's a wonderful piece. (Yes, I found it on Reddit.)
http://anarchistsoccermom.blogspot.com/2012/12/thinking-unthinkable.html?m=1
http://anarchistsoccermom.blogspot.com/2012/12/thinking-unthinkable.html?m=1
Maybe you're attacking the wrong thing. As you know, on that same day, 20 kids were stabbed in China. In 2010, over 20 kids were also stabbed and killed in a Chinese kindergarten. This guy in Conn. used a gun, yes---but tell me--what the heck was going through this guy's brain that children were an acceptable target? Is it the "gun" culture? Did the "gun culture" cause him to shoot children? I see this more as treating the symptoms instead of the disease. There is something else wrong in society that is causing us to create these kinds of people. I feel that's what we need to figure out and fix. It's like that Einstein quote that's always flashed around "I don't know how WWIII will be fought, but WW IV will be fought with sticks and stones." People will always find a way or reason to kill other people. I don't think taking away guns will fix this problem. Something else is wrong.
Personally, I'm less concerned with the tool used than the result of the action. I'm not sure parents in China were any more relived their children were killed with a knife instead of a gun.
Except that last event, no one died.
And in the event before it, over 20 children died. The fact that out of the 20 kids none died doesn't make the point any less relevant than if someone tried to point out all the times someone got shot and didn't die.
North_Ranger
Staff member
I have to say, thank you for bringing this aspect up. It's easy to get involved with just the guns, and forget the person using said gun.
I read that, and then I think about how the Limbaughs, Becks, O'Reillys, and so on will make damned sure that nothing of value gets done. And then I just want to cry, and maybe hope that we're right about the Mayans after all.
They may be just drops in an ocean of humanity, but they are overwhelmingly toxic drops.
(I mean the Limbaughs, etc are the toxic ones. Need to make that perfectly clear.)
They may be just drops in an ocean of humanity, but they are overwhelmingly toxic drops.
(I mean the Limbaughs, etc are the toxic ones. Need to make that perfectly clear.)
From the article:
That's a fucking disgusting way to handle this.
Now, she brought her son to a psychiatric hospital for in-patient care, not prison, but imagine the mothers in this situation who don't have health insurance. Imagine the mothers in this situation who can't bring themselves to do the right thing.
Hey it's been a few days after the shooting. I still feel guns need tighter regulations.
Zappit
Staff member
I do think it is part of the problem. While the state of America's mental healthcare system is pathetic, let's look at the facts. His mother owned those guns. They often shot them together at ranges. He was trained to use an assault rifle. A mentally unbalanced man was trained to use assault weapons even though common sense says that's a horrible idea.
But that's the gun culture. It ignores that kind of common sense. It allows situations like this. It plays a role in these mass killings, and its flaws should be addressed too.
I think gun culture runs deeper than just that. Even now it's being hotly debated on how to prevent a situation like this from occurring again. I have several gun-nut friends on Facebook saying that their wouldn't be a problem if teachers would arm themselves. How stupid is that? Guns are not defensive weapons. They are 100% offensive. The problem is these heroic fantasies associated with guns.
The brave man who defends his family from a night invasion burglary.
The brave woman who shoots a would be rapist in a dark alley.
It just goes on and on, but the reality is you can't possibly know what someone's intentions are until things go down in a very short amount of time. Reducing that propaganda of fear is the first step towards reason. Owning a gun does not empower you, it only means you have given into fear of the unknown and are desperately (and pathetically) trying to control situations that are oftentimes uncontrollable.
I've treated many gunshot victims over the years as a PT, the reality of how fragile life is and how easily someone's life can be broken through gun violence is very much a part of my experience.
Zappit
Staff member
I'm a teacher. I don't want to be armed. I don't want to live in fear of a possible accidental discharge in a classroom or out at recess. Kids bump into you, you bump into desks and whatnot. It can happen.
Let's say they do that, and a teacher's gun accidentally goes off in a room and a kid gets hurt. I think I can predict the public outcry we'd see.
And what about substitutes? Would they be allowed to carry. A fresh sub isn't known to the system. You can't realistically expect a school district to be able to trust that many people to be responsible with firearms. The odds say there will be a few fools in the mix.
But that's the gun culture mindset. It cannot see the negative consequences. It refuses to see them.
Let's say they do that, and a teacher's gun accidentally goes off in a room and a kid gets hurt. I think I can predict the public outcry we'd see.
And what about substitutes? Would they be allowed to carry. A fresh sub isn't known to the system. You can't realistically expect a school district to be able to trust that many people to be responsible with firearms. The odds say there will be a few fools in the mix.
But that's the gun culture mindset. It cannot see the negative consequences. It refuses to see them.
Zappit, have you really ever been around guns? Serious question. Lots of the stuff you keep saying on here indicate an ignorance of basic gun operation and safety. I'm not trying to insult you with that statement, but I'm reading stuff that just shows no real knowledge of any firearms.
Zappit
Staff member
I live a stone's throw away from the local gun club. I'm friends with the school resource officer and have had conversations on the subject. I've never personally handled a gun, and never had any desire to. But I know the basics - care, safety, usage.
I don't particularly understand what knowledge I'm lacking. Was it how I was describing assault weapons? I'm referring to the class of guns capable of a high rate of fire with a large number of bullets, the kind used on Friday's massacre. The ban on those expired, and they're available again. That's all.
But I do come from a school environment, and have strong feelings on this. I don't think better screening is an infringement on anyone's right to bear arms, nor is it unreasonable to limit those weapons. It's not denying anyone ownership.
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