[News] Several killed in Connecticut Elementary School Shooting
- Thread starter Charlie Don't Surf
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I'm not getting into the gasbandit trap, but no one died in the China mass stabbing
Feels wrong to answer to such a small part of such a long post but: do you know what those countries have in common? They have compulsory military service. I think the Swiss keep their rifles from that military service actually, as they do some days out of each year of service after their main one.
Also, "gun culture" isn't represented only in the # of guns.
GasBandit
Staff member
There might be something to that - one of the things they train you in the military is, obviously, gun safety and responsibility. There could be advantages to instituting a course like that.
Like I said, require a licensing program for gun ownership, just like driving a car. I'm sure there are a lot of legal hurdles that would make that difficult, but it still seems like a good idea.
GasBandit
Staff member
I don't think that's enough. You don't have to own a gun to steal and shoot one. I'm thinking along the lines of making it manditory school curricula. Plus, that avoids the whole "gun registration" pit trap.
Is it true that in the USA that most gun show sales and second hand sales of guns do not in fact require a background check of any kind?
GasBandit
Staff member
All private gun sales (those not involving a professional gun dealer) do not require a background check.
How do you stop morons from privately selling guns to sociopaths and criminals? (I'm asking this stuff honestly to learn... not to just be a dick).
Up here in Canada we can sell guns privately too but we have to make sure that the buyer has a valid PAL (possession and aquisition license) with the correct type (restricted vs non-restricted) and there's even a dedicated phone number for inquiries to make sure a PAL is valid. That's just for a non-restricted firearm (shotguns, long rifles, etc). Restricted firearms require way more hoops to jumped through just for a private sale. http://www.rcmp-grc.gc.ca/cfp-pcaf/fs-fd/sell-vendre-eng.htm
GasBandit
Staff member
Because guns still have serial numbers, and thus can usually be traced back through owners, or at least to their original point of sale, so it behooves anyone selling a gun to get paperwork on it showing who they sold it to and when, in case it's found to have been used in the commission of a criminal act.
It's a tough constitutional argument down here to put more legal impediments to firearm ownership, since the amendment is pretty cut and dry about "shall not be infringed." That doesn't just mean "shall not be prevented," you can infringe without banning. That's why I was saying mandatory education might be a good idea, as it doesn't actually impact gun ownership or the process of buying one.
I don't think anyone would ever argue against gun safety education... well maybe if they're crazy.
So do you have to have any kind of licensing or anything to buy a firearm then? I'm guessing that because of the way it's entrenched in the second amendment you can't require that sort of thing due to it "infringing" (which kind of sucks because needing a license to purchase firearms does create an easy and convenient way to both force people to undergo proper background checks as well as gun safety courses).
So do you have to have any kind of licensing or anything to buy a firearm then? I'm guessing that because of the way it's entrenched in the second amendment you can't require that sort of thing due to it "infringing" (which kind of sucks because needing a license to purchase firearms does create an easy and convenient way to both force people to undergo proper background checks as well as gun safety courses).
Personally I keep wondering how far we're from the:
future...
Welp, there was a german TV production covering this theme in 1970 and some people took it for real...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Das_Millionenspiel
That depends on the state. Some states have mandatory classes for ownership. And GB is wrong above. In some states it is mandatory to do a background check on private sales. But it depends on the state
GasBandit
Staff member
Depends on the firearm, depends on the state. Most states require background checks for handguns, along with waiting periods. Some states even ban their sales outright (Illinois), 2nd amendment be damned, though the supreme court takes a dim view of such things when they get around to looking at them. You do have to get a permit to carry a concealed gun, and some states (including Texas, ironically) prohibit the open carrying of firearms.
I'm not getting into any arguments here. I'm just going to plug the book No One Left To Hate by Elliot Aronson again.
GasBandit
Staff member
*Nobody
Really, Gas, do you really need to be a pedantic ass in this thread?
Not about need. All want.
GasBandit
Staff member
Couldn't help myself. But yes, that'd be a good book to read, that tries to look at underlying causes and solutions beyond simple gun control.
I agree. We've already had at least two more people arrested for making threats on elementary schools over Facebook since Friday, one of them semi-local to Seattle. In that case it was a 19 year old guy who describes himself as an internet troll who was just posting threats to get a rise out of his readers, but who will hopefully discover that there's a big difference between posting things like "U mad bro??" and posting things like "If gun control laws get stricter because of this shooting, I'm going to take my sawed-off shotgun and shoot up every school in a 100 mile radius." The first is trolling and the second is a felony for making threats over the internet, and while I really hope the prosecutor's office decides to make an example out of this morally-bankrupt douche canoe, I hope the press doesn't jump all over it and give us even more attention starved copy-cats.
A damn tragedy. My mom was so broken up over this, all she could talk about the other day.
Zappit
Staff member
One six year old survivor who thought to play dead. I can't even imagine the trauma that poor kid will suffer having gone through such horror. http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/201...mmy-im-ok-but-all-of-my-friends-are-dead?lite
Jon Stewart once said he'd like us to clone Osama bin Laden so we could kill one every Super Bowl halftime show. This Lanza bastard hits that same note.
There was also a threat called in against a Newtown church on Sunday.
These are the people we can catch and make an example of, and we need to. Those kinds of sick pranks make these living nightmares even worse, create terror and chaos. Somebody is actually getting their jollies off that. That has to be punished.
Even worse, the damn Westboro Baptists want to protest the funerals. Anonymous has already started posting their names and contact information on some of them, and seemed to declare war on those loonies. Good luck to them, really. It's time to declare them a hate group and take away their tax exempt status. Even the freaking KKK thinks they're despicable.
Jon Stewart once said he'd like us to clone Osama bin Laden so we could kill one every Super Bowl halftime show. This Lanza bastard hits that same note.
There was also a threat called in against a Newtown church on Sunday.
These are the people we can catch and make an example of, and we need to. Those kinds of sick pranks make these living nightmares even worse, create terror and chaos. Somebody is actually getting their jollies off that. That has to be punished.
Even worse, the damn Westboro Baptists want to protest the funerals. Anonymous has already started posting their names and contact information on some of them, and seemed to declare war on those loonies. Good luck to them, really. It's time to declare them a hate group and take away their tax exempt status. Even the freaking KKK thinks they're despicable.
I second this, man. Your passionate defense of children is absolutely admirable, but I think this news and the related stuff might be taking a toll on you.
The Death Penalty has been proven ineffective as a deterrent, so no, we don't really need to.
Zappit
Staff member
It is. I mean, I work with kids. It makes me sick to my core that shit like this happens, and that it could be prevented. Maybe you guys are right.
Turn off the news for awhile, that stuff can poison you.
I was afraid this was going to happen.
Zappit
Staff member
We had that meeting this morning, too. Not easy. My principal was fighting back misty eyes.
I think this kind of a nice article, here, and really expresses where a lot of teachers are coming from:
http://schoolsofthought.blogs.cnn.c...ll-teachers-are-in-it-for-the-kids/?hpt=hp_t2
Apparently my brother managed to piss off much of my extended family with his Facebook rants on this subject. He's a staunch 2nd Amendment guy, and I guess he got into a heated argument with some folks over what should happen to gun laws in the country. I'm just glad I don't have an account, so I don't get dragged into the middle. I worry that my brother is one of those people on Facebook, the ones that inject politics into everything and end up blocked.
GasBandit
Staff member
Turns out there was a proposed mental health bill in the Connecticut legislature that potentially could have prevented last friday that was shot down in March for being discriminatory and infringing on privacy. It was designed to aid the very situation that anarchistsoccermom describes - "it would have given the state the right to institutionalize a person who is mentally ill for treatment if the state has enough evidence to believe that the person could be a danger to himself or the community."
The standards for that would have to be VERY strict before I'd ever agree with it. Sure, it would prevent this situation... but it could also get some people put away by corrupt officials. We already have judges that trump up charges on minors to send them to facilities... facilities which pay them a "finders fee" for sending them. Don't really want to give them more ammo.
I'm ok with stricter gun laws, go for it. I just hope people seriously look at the underlying issues. Whether it's the anti-hero we glorify for killing everyone who slights them, or the lack of support for kids with mental issues. It's a way of life right now, and we need to decide if we're ok with living with it. Or if we are honestly serious about finding out whats wrong. Because it's not just guns. We are a culture that glorifies bloody revenge.
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