Town Covers Up Gang Rape to Protect High School Football Season

[figmentPez]

Oh rats, I forgot.

I'm sure this would have happened even if none of these teenagers were drinking, thus making the adult who provided the alcohol free of blame. He or she was just providing a little mood lightening drink to help these troubled teens relax a little bit.

Of course, there are all these cases where wrongfull death suits are brought against people who supplied alcohol to minors that ended up having a car wreck due to their drinking. Quite frankly the victim, and possibly her attackers, have a case against them.

And if more such cases were brought up and adults found out that they might be responsible for the behavior of drunk teens, they might more frequently reconsider supplying the alcohol in the future.

I agree with you. Living in Kingwood, Texas I've heard far too many stories about the bad things that can happen when adults supply alcohol (and drugs) to minors. I don't even want to think about how many rapes have occurred because of it, and been covered up because the "bubble city" has to maintain it's reputation as a safe place to raise children. I don't doubt that there are stories that would make Steubenville pale in comparison.

The sad thing is that this still could have happened without the alcohol. Sexual assault does still occur, even when the victim and assailants are sober, just as car accidents happen without alcohol. However, it's also true that an abundance of alcohol tends to make bad situations worse, and the adults involved should be prosecuted for their part in things, and it did play a part.[DOUBLEPOST=1363636618][/DOUBLEPOST]

I don't see the parents (or whoever provided alcohol) as particularly bad. Late night drinking parties are fairly common in high school. The vast majority of them do not end up in rape. Giving high schoolers alcohol is not the same as helping rape happen.

From the amount of bad things that I've heard about happening at drinking parties, yeah it is the same thing. It's not always rape, but it's often enough something bad that it is reckless to be supplying teenagers with alcohol.

Also, it's not just that they gave them booze, it's that they helped cover up the crime afterwards.

 

[Charlie Don't Surf]

The solution isn't to stigmatize alcohol even further to young people; the solution is to continue teaching men to not rape women.

 

[figmentPez]

The solution isn't to stigmatize alcohol even further to young people; the solution is to continue teaching men to not rape women.

While we do need to teach men that rape is unacceptable, and how to define rape accurately... and there's a good argument to make for promoting a balanced view of alcohol... It's still not good for teenagers to be getting drunk, especially not en masse. We teach that theft and destruction of public property is unacceptable, but drunk kids still go out and destroy mailboxes or, more spectacularly, drive a front-loader though the wall of a middle school. The problem here is not simply that these kids may not have been told "don't rape"; it's that they've been told that they can do whatever they want, even if they've been told not to do that very thing, and that it'll get covered up because football is more important than anything else.[DOUBLEPOST=1363638066][/DOUBLEPOST]

One of the real problems is that many minors who are raped while drunk don't come forward because they blame themselves for getting drunk in the first place. They often don't even count it as a rape and worry that if they admit to drinking they'll get in worse trouble, and that people won't believe them when they say it wasn't consensual.

This is a very sad truth, and it goes even further. Many girls that age feel they can't even come forward if they weren't drunk, because no one would believe them. Especially when it comes to Football players. I wouldn't be surprised if, in high school, had I been the victim of robbery, had my wallet stolen by some jock, that they would have been the ones given the benefit of the doubt. I would have had to prove that I didn't willingly hand over my belongings to the star athlete. It would have been possible for me to prove that, since I was a goody two-shoes and well known at my church, but it wouldn't have been a foregone conclusion. Thankfully, I never had such a run-in, but I can't imagine what it's like for women to have to try to convince people of something far more serious, and far more damaging to her reputation. Having your wallet stolen doesn't carry the stigma of being a rape victim.

 

[Charlie Don't Surf]

In conclusion - fuck the patriarchy.

 

[Dave]

I'm just thankful our football team sucked and nobody gave a shit if you were on the team or not.

 

[Null]

I'm completely disgusted by how so many in a position of authority tried to make this whole thing "just go away", as if a serious crime hadn't been committed. And even more disgusted by CNN's sorrow for the rapists.

 

[Charlie Don't Surf]

Now that you've so easily resolved the rape problem in a way that completely eliminates all other surrounding factors, I hope you will consider solving the Middle East problem.

It is all the fault of white men

 

[MindDetective]

Crap. I'm a white man! Argh! *cuts self*

 

[Charlie Don't Surf]

I'm being facetious about the above, but what I said I do believe is one of the solutions

 

[Espy]

Honestly I think Charlie is mostly right. The first and most important thing regarding sexual assault is for parents, teachers and authority figures to be teaching young men to not sexually assault girls. This goes hand in hand with destroying the "she was asking for it cuz of what she was wearing" myth that I am mortified to say was a HUGE part of the "purity" push in most churches and religious organizations I've been associated with or am familiar with. It's a very big topic right now in the post-evangelical world.

The second factor here is probably, like it or not Charlie, what Adam is saying. Adults supplying alcohol isn't the cause but it's a symptom of the bigger issue, which is parents not caring or bothering to be parents. There's world of difference from teaching young adults to be responsible with alcohol and giving them a keg and telling them to go nuts. I saw a LOT of that in Texas and in smaller towns up north here.

The third factor (and note how ALL of these involve parents and authority figures doing the right thing?) is for parents and authority figures to teach girls how to avoid dangerous situations. Thats not a bad thing. In no way does it mean it's the girls fault if she gets raped. If she chooses to stay at a party it's not a free card for thugs like this to do whatever they want. But teaching someone to think about their choices? Always good.

 

[Hailey Knight]

I'm on Charlie's side for once.

Men make choices. The availability of alcohol, the sight of a girl in revealing clothing--these things do not change the fact that we make choices. I'm disgusted by the whole "she was asking for it" thing not only because it's victim-blaming, but I don't think any man here wants it to be believed that when you see a girl in revealing clothes, your first thought is "RAPE HER MUST RAPE HER NOW". I'm tired of the female gender being beat down, but I'm also tired of my gender being viewed as a bunch of rutting neanderthals. So yes, it is absolutely important that young men are taught not to rape, not that to rape is the expectation and that it's up to women to avoid getting caught in it.

The coverage for this whole thing has been abysmal.

 

[GasBandit]

The fact that stealing is illegal and morally wrong does not mean I accuse people who lock their doors and windows to be blaming the victims, or perpetuating "theft culture." Yes, we should be making it crystal clear that rape is unacceptable. But that doesn't mean we shouldn't also be encouraging potential victims to be smart and safe - there are bad people out there, and even if they go to jail for ruining your life, your life is still ruined.

That, and as others said in the thread, we need to deal with our problem of celebrity worship - that celebrities, be they high school football stars or hollywood directors, are often let off the hook because of their celebrity status. How good a player is should not factor into what laws he is allowed to break.

 

[Hailey Knight]

The fact that stealing is illegal and morally wrong does not mean I accuse people who lock their doors and windows to be blaming the victims, or perpetuating "theft culture." Yes, we should be making it crystal clear that rape is unacceptable. But that doesn't mean we shouldn't also be encouraging potential victims to be smart and safe - there are bad people out there, and even if they go to jail for ruining your life, your life is still ruined.

That, and as others said in the thread, we need to deal with our problem of celebrity worship - that celebrities, be they high school football stars or hollywood directors, are often let off the hook because of their celebrity status. How good a player is should not factor into what laws he is allowed to break.

I don't disagree on any of that. I'm just tired of the lopsidedness of it.

 

[AshburnerX]

Did anyone else see this and think "Wow. Charlie Brown really took a wrong turn somewhere in his life."?

 

[Espy]

The fact that stealing is illegal and morally wrong does not mean I accuse people who lock their doors and windows to be blaming the victims, or perpetuating "theft culture." Yes, we should be making it crystal clear that rape is unacceptable. But that doesn't mean we shouldn't also be encouraging potential victims to be smart and safe - there are bad people out there, and even if they go to jail for ruining your life, your life is still ruined.

That, and as others said in the thread, we need to deal with our problem of celebrity worship - that celebrities, be they high school football stars or hollywood directors, are often let off the hook because of their celebrity status. How good a player is should not factor into what laws he is allowed to break.

And I don't think most people who tell girls to be careful of who they are with/where they are/what kind of attention they may get from "those clothes" are always victim blaming, but there are many who are and participate in a culture that says, "Men can't control themselves around women, especially if those women wear sexy clothes".
Other than that I think we are saying the exact same thing. I love the part about celebrity worship. Thats a problem. We have to start throwing the book at celebrities who pull this stuff.

 

[AshburnerX]

Fox News, MSNBC, and CNN all out the victim of all this on national television.

Jesus fucking christ.

 

[Hailey Knight]

Fucking unbelievable.

 

[Hailey Knight]

The Onion: College Basketball Star Heroically Overcomes Tragic Rape He Committed

 

[Krisken]

I almost posted that earlier, QP, but it felt way too creepy.

 

[Hailey Knight]

It wouldn't be so creepy if it didn't hit the nail on the head.

 

[Krisken]

Well yeah.

I think The Onion has a gifted psychic on their payroll.

 

[Krisken]

Here we go. WWHRD.

 

[tegid]

In conclusion - fuck the patriarchy.

Is that a rape joke? [DOUBLEPOST=1363680143][/DOUBLEPOST]

I'm on Charlie's side for once.

Men make choices. The availability of alcohol, the sight of a girl in revealing clothing--these things do not change the fact that we make choices. I'm disgusted by the whole "she was asking for it" thing not only because it's victim-blaming, but I don't think any man here wants it to be believed that when you see a girl in revealing clothes, your first thought is "RAPE HER MUST RAPE HER NOW". I'm tired of the female gender being beat down, but I'm also tired of my gender being viewed as a bunch of rutting neanderthals. So yes, it is absolutely important that young men are taught not to rape, not that to rape is the expectation and that it's up to women to avoid getting caught in it.

This, so much this. Of course alcohol is a factor, but the ingrained thought that when they have less self control is alright to do this kind of thing is the real problem.

 

[Zappit]

And the town kids are still stupid...

http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/201...threats-against-steubenville-rape-victim?lite

 

[tegid]

[...]
But we also need to question our ready dismissal of those that provided the environment where such a crime could be committed. I believe we can condemn their actions without in any way lessening or absolving the criminals of their responsibility for their act. They did not cause the crime to occur, but they certainly provided an unsupervised place, a time, and tools that made it easier to perpetrate.

I certainly agree. I think Espy's post is spot on, actually. What I meat to say is that in this case the bigger problem is that one, and the (ir)responsible adults surrounding this have responsibility for: 1-Bringing up the kids with these 'she had it coming' ideas, 2-Having the football players think that they can't be held accountable for anything short of killing someone or whatever, 3-Allowing them to drink and go wild, in this order.

That's how I see it. Also, it's not that I don't want to discuss your point, it's that besides not seeing it as a main part of the problem here* I agree with it, think that most people will agree with it (this is probably where I'm wrong) and find it less interesting in this instance, while QP's post got me in that not many people seem to complain about this "men are animals with no self-control" that is something I usually think about.

*What I mean is, in a car accident due to alcohol the problem can purely be irresponsible alcohol consumption, underestimating the effect of alcohol on your reflexes etc. In this case it's not as simple as that, there's an underlying problem.

But yeah, those people should be held accountable.

 

[Silent Bob]

The fact that stealing is illegal and morally wrong does not mean I accuse people who lock their doors and windows to be blaming the victims, or perpetuating "theft culture." Yes, we should be making it crystal clear that rape is unacceptable. But that doesn't mean we shouldn't also be encouraging potential victims to be smart and safe - there are bad people out there, and even if they go to jail for ruining your life, your life is still ruined.

That, and as others said in the thread, we need to deal with our problem of celebrity worship - that celebrities, be they high school football stars or hollywood directors, are often let off the hook because of their celebrity status. How good a player is should not factor into what laws he is allowed to break.

most of the time the "bad people" are friends and family. Same goes for a lot of stuff.

 

[Charlie Don't Surf]

Does that,mean that you, QP, and Charlie are against discussing how alcohol is also a problem?

I agree that we need to teach everyone, both boys and girls, men and women, that each individual are responsible for their own actions, regardless of outside factors.
.

See, this reads slightly to me like "girls and women are responsible for getting raped if they drink too much"

EDIT: by all means correct me

 

[Tress]

I dunno. I think Steinman is simply saying that women should be careful and try to avoid dangerous situations. If I tell you not to walk alone at night in a dark alley to avoid being mugged, am I saying it's your fault if you get mugged? No. I'm just urging caution because it's an imperfect world. When people tell women not to drink something at a frat party that they didn't see get made in front of their own eyes, is that blaming women? No. It's just acknowledging there are bad people out there who might want to hurt them, and they should be careful.

Of course, Steinman is also saying men should be careful in the same ways, and that all people should take responsibility for their own actions/safety. I don't see any victim blaming in that.

 

[figmentPez]

*What I mean is, in a car accident due to alcohol the problem can purely be irresponsible alcohol consumption, underestimating the effect of alcohol on your reflexes etc. In this case it's not as simple as that, there's an underlying problem.

But yeah, those people should be held accountable.

Back when I was in high school there was a fad, of sorts, for kids to try to reach 100mph on Kingwood Drive, they called it "The 100 Club". The highest speed limit on that road is 45mph, and that's pretty close to sane limits in some places. It's a heavily wooded drive with a lot of limited visibility and traffic lights that are visible just outside of stopping distance. There is no way to travel even 60 safely, let alone 100. The reckless endangerment involved in reaching 100mph on that road is very real, even in wee hours of the night when few people are on the road. Yet teenagers did it, or at least claimed to. I know kids who definitely got tickets for going over 80mph on the same road.

Imagine if some kid had done that after drinking built up their "courage". Alcohol is not the sole factor in making that situation dangerous. At 70+mph it's probably not even the primary factor. However, more kids are going to be stupid enough to try to reach 100mph when they're drunk and in a crowd goading them on. Alcohol makes an already bad situation worse when it's abused. If some kid had been in an accident speeding down the road after a kegger, then the "adults" who supplied the alcohol should be charged for their contribution to the issue, especially if they tried to cover it up, even if that type of driving would have been a crime without drunk driving being involved.

On a tangent: Wanting to punish the rape victim for underage consumption is like wanting to punish someone maimed in a drunk driving incident for being out after curfew. Yes, it's safer for teenagers to follow laws meant to protect them, but now is not the time. Hopefully the victim will eventually learn how to be responsible in consumption of alcohol, but this is not an example of a teachable moment. This is a chance for the rapists to learn what they've done was wrong, not a time to make things harder on a victim who has endured far worse than anything the boys will face.

 

[GasBandit]

most of the time the "bad people" are friends and family. Same goes for a lot of stuff.

I can't speak for "most of the time," but I can definitely tell you there are still gangs of men in dark alleys even in today's day and age, as I know someone who did literally get dragged into an alley, despite certain people's assurances that such things don't happen any more. And there are always men trying to ply away women's inhibitions with alcohol and/or drugs. Men still ambush women in parking lots. The perpetrators should be punished of course, but it's still a good idea to teach situational awareness and caution to potential victims... in the hope that it may prevent them from becoming actual victims.

 

[Charlie Don't Surf]

I don't have the stat in front of me, but the VAST majority of sexual assaults are from people the victim knows.

 

[GasBandit]

I don't have the stat in front of me, but the VAST majority of sexual assaults are from people the victim knows.

According to RAINN, who I'm guessing probably has good figures on this sort of thing, it's 2/3rds. I suppose that could constitute "vast," but it doesn't cover methodry.

And 1/3rd of all of them is still a lot of assaults.

And even some of them that are strangers even prudent caution doesn't help. A couple years ago when I was visiting family in albuquerque, they were having problems with a man in a bad part of town who went to a 70 year old widow's house, kicked down her door, went in, and raped her.

 

[Hailey Knight]

Of course, Steinman is also saying men should be careful in the same ways, and that all people should take responsibility for their own actions/safety. I don't see any victim blaming in that.

The problem is that men don't have to be careful in the same ways. We get less blame, and to be honest, it is fucking scary out there to be a woman. I had no idea until it was outright explained to me, but the shit women have to worry about, that is upon them and is their responsibility to worry about and evade, is stuff I would never think about. My wife will come home sometimes and tell me about things that are said or done around her--never happens when I'm around. It's not because I'm big or tough or scary. I'm not. It's because I'm a man and that alone changes things.

Espy, I think everyone who covered it up or contributed to that situation should be brought to justice. But I think this perception that woman = thing to rape and the men = rapists if given the chance is HUGE and is in need of the first fix, because that's a societal perception. It's why women have to be hidden from sight in some countries and cultures, because a man loses control. I like to think we're more enlightened than that, but we're not. So it's my personal opinion that it needs to be tackled prominently. I'm of course not against getting rid of the ON/OFF light switch idea that America has toward alcohol, or tearing down celebrity/athlete worship. These are all things that need to change.

 

[Tiger Tsang]

Have none of you folks delved into the blogger and the Anonymous stuff that actually got this dragged back out from under the rug the town was trying to sweep this under?

This wasn't a case of a girl who goes to a party gets blitzed and should have known better, and proceeds to get a lot of heinous things done to her by boys and girls *audience participant or not*.

Grain of Salt, and whatnot, but this appears to be some cold, calculated shit perpetrated on this girl.

After being convinced, with some amount of coaxing - to attend the parties that night with the "Rape Crew" by Mark Cole's girlfriend Santoro, Jane Doe was picked up at a volleyball team party she was attending in the early evening of August 11th and transported in a vehicle with Richmond, Mays and Cole in it. Jane Doe was administered a "date rape" drug snuck into her drink almost immediately,*conjecture but . .* possibly while still in the vehicle enroute to the nights "festivities". In any case, she has no memories after being picked up. The first party of the night was at the home of Assistant Coach Rick Cameletti, where Michael Nodianos, Charlie Keenan, Cody Saltsman, and Anthony Craig were already engaged in heavy drinking and drug use. At this location Jane Doe was raped multiple times by Richmond and Mays and at least two other assailants from the "Rape Crew". At that point the "party" went on the move. They first stopped at another Assistant Coach's home, Coach Belerdine. Both Belerdine and his sister were present at this time. Jane Doe was again sexually assaulted at this party. They hit the road again with an unconscious Jane Doe in tow. While en route to Mark Cole's house, Jane was again raped and sodomized in the back seat of a vehicle - and this was video recorded by Mark Cole who was in the front seat. Her attackers in the car were again Mays and Richmond. Once they arrived at Mark Cole's house Jane Doe was carried to the basement where she was again raped multiple times by multiple attackers, one of which was Michael Nodianos. Also at the Cole residence, Jane Doe was orally raped by Trent Mays. Finally, having sated themselves and exhausted any further entertainment that Jane Doe could provide for these animals, she was unceremoniously dumped (still unconscious) onto the front lawn of the Cole residence - where at least one member of the "Rape Crew" proceeded to urinate on her. At some point in the early morning hours of August 12th, a semi-conscious Jane Doe was transported to her home in West Virginia.

This wasn't two boys behaving badly with onlookers. This was some serious fucked up shit, from the TOP down in this city / school / group of students.

 

[Krisken]