Episode 2. A little better and I actually laughed when I realized that half the episode was about Muscle March.
[Webcomic] PVP Discussion
- Thread starter Dei
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Episode 2. A little better and I actually laughed when I realized that half the episode was about Muscle March.
Yay! Q got punched in the face!
Dave
Staff member
Yeah, God damn it, this one was actually okay.
New Mappy. Again, pretty decent. I think if they keep covering different games every week, this might work out to be a decent (if not astounding) series.
I just came on to say thank you for this thread. I've been following PVP since late 1999 when I was a freshman in college, and I have been a bit... disappointed with the rapid decline in quality over the past few years, but I kept checking in because, you know, 14 year old habits die hard.
I was searching for others who might feel the same way as I do, and I came across this thread. After seeing some interesting thoughts, I eventually opened the thread up from page 1, along with the corresponding PVP strip, and went through all 145 pages of this thread, tracking your thoughts with the strips as they came up. It was significantly more entertaining than just reading the strip, and gave the whole experience an MST3K feel. So thank you.
I could probably go on a long diatribe about my thoughts as a fan of fourteen years, but I don't know what that would accomplish. But I did want to tell you all that this thread is great.
I was searching for others who might feel the same way as I do, and I came across this thread. After seeing some interesting thoughts, I eventually opened the thread up from page 1, along with the corresponding PVP strip, and went through all 145 pages of this thread, tracking your thoughts with the strips as they came up. It was significantly more entertaining than just reading the strip, and gave the whole experience an MST3K feel. So thank you.
I could probably go on a long diatribe about my thoughts as a fan of fourteen years, but I don't know what that would accomplish. But I did want to tell you all that this thread is great.
Dave
Staff member
We have a real love/hate relationship with the strip and with Kurtz. Most of us would really, really like to have that love back, but sometimes it's so damned hard.
It's like remembering your first girlfriend. You know the one - she cheated on you with your best friend and started doing meth but you still know how beautiful and intelligent she can be so you don't quite give up on her. But then she kicks your dog and you blame the drugs.
That's right - we're PvP enablers.
(P.S. Mappy sucks.)
It's like remembering your first girlfriend. You know the one - she cheated on you with your best friend and started doing meth but you still know how beautiful and intelligent she can be so you don't quite give up on her. But then she kicks your dog and you blame the drugs.
That's right - we're PvP enablers.
(P.S. Mappy sucks.)
Yeah, a lot of us here have a love/hate relationship with PVP because we are the remnants of what use to be the official forum for the comic. When Kurtz decided that the forum was no longer worth maintaining, he shut it down very abruptly. So that's how we ended up here, more or less.
Edit:
Fuck you and your "love/hate" ninja skills, @Dave!
Edit:
Fuck you and your "love/hate" ninja skills, @Dave!
Is it any surprise that the Mappy stuff is terrible when Kurtz himself has zero talent? His entire career is based around the luck of doing something early (webcomics) rather than doing something with high quality. If PvP were a fresh webcomic starting today, it wouldn't have even 10% of the userbase it attracts now. And most of the userbase he does have really just comes from people who check the website out of habit than actually appreciating the quality (lol) of the work.
Tell us how you really feel about Kurtz
It's gotten you reading and talking about it consistently for years.
GasBandit
Staff member
Actually, I've removed it from my RSS feed subscription list for years now, and only go look at it when someone points out something specific and I want to be able to converse on the topic.
You is Dave, sweetie.
Necronic
Staff member
Even now there are parts of it that are funny/quality, but over the last 5 years or so though he's just gotten.....I dunno....lazy? All the jokes are canned and stale. But even that doesn't explain the real problem. Sometimes he'll attach a canned punchline in the last panel and it doesn't even make sense or fit. His characters are disjointed and unnatural, and while parts of the art have gotten better, they've also lost something important to them...I can't put my finger on it.
I think his problem may be the same that happened to Chris Onstad. He had a formula and has gotten to the point that it's burned into his mind so far it doesn't work anymore. At least Onstaad noticed that eventuality approaching and abandoned the strip first before it turned into whatever PvP has become.
I don't entirely blame him if that's the case. It would be an incredibly difficult thing to admit that your creation that you were so devoted to, and that gave you so much in return, was on life support and needed to be put down. I think many of us here would have problems letting a loved one die if you could keep them on life support in whatever state PvP is in for eternity, especially when you know that they could come around back to their glory days at any moment. I mean hell, for my podcast I did for EvE I was in denial for almost a year that I wasn't going to do another episode. I still think that maybe I'll bring it back one day even though I haven't even PLAYED EvE in probably 6 months. On the other hand, there's also the cynical side of this that he can still milk the comic for earnings, and letting it die would require him to start something new to generate revenue.
That said, I have thoroughly enjoyed Table Titans so far, and one thing that is fair to say about Kurtz is that he likes to start new projects. They aren't all winners, but I think that if he really let PvP go he could refocus on something new and I bet it would be decent. He still has talent. But whatever muse he built PvP with left a long time ago.
I think his problem may be the same that happened to Chris Onstad. He had a formula and has gotten to the point that it's burned into his mind so far it doesn't work anymore. At least Onstaad noticed that eventuality approaching and abandoned the strip first before it turned into whatever PvP has become.
I don't entirely blame him if that's the case. It would be an incredibly difficult thing to admit that your creation that you were so devoted to, and that gave you so much in return, was on life support and needed to be put down. I think many of us here would have problems letting a loved one die if you could keep them on life support in whatever state PvP is in for eternity, especially when you know that they could come around back to their glory days at any moment. I mean hell, for my podcast I did for EvE I was in denial for almost a year that I wasn't going to do another episode. I still think that maybe I'll bring it back one day even though I haven't even PLAYED EvE in probably 6 months. On the other hand, there's also the cynical side of this that he can still milk the comic for earnings, and letting it die would require him to start something new to generate revenue.
That said, I have thoroughly enjoyed Table Titans so far, and one thing that is fair to say about Kurtz is that he likes to start new projects. They aren't all winners, but I think that if he really let PvP go he could refocus on something new and I bet it would be decent. He still has talent. But whatever muse he built PvP with left a long time ago.
I agree with Necronic.
Doing the same work for 15 years has got to be creatively taxing, and I don't blame Scott for wanting to break out after his 10 year anniversary. Ding was awful, and Trenches didn't really work out. But Table Titans has been excellent so far and suffers only for its update schedule, and the Blamimations on PATV have been very enjoyable for the most part as well.
I am completely fine with PvP being the strip that he phones in, in service of keeping an income while building up a new property. But I wouldn't be surprised if when TT takes off in another year or so and he starts subsiding his income with that, that he either stops PvP or moves it to the backburner.
Doing the same work for 15 years has got to be creatively taxing, and I don't blame Scott for wanting to break out after his 10 year anniversary. Ding was awful, and Trenches didn't really work out. But Table Titans has been excellent so far and suffers only for its update schedule, and the Blamimations on PATV have been very enjoyable for the most part as well.
I am completely fine with PvP being the strip that he phones in, in service of keeping an income while building up a new property. But I wouldn't be surprised if when TT takes off in another year or so and he starts subsiding his income with that, that he either stops PvP or moves it to the backburner.
Scott would need a real world job if he let PvP go. It is what pays his bills. Folks won't buy the shirts if there is not a comic to prop it up.
It is just too dangerous to throw your job away with out a gig that will pay as well.
It is just too dangerous to throw your job away with out a gig that will pay as well.
Not really though.
GasBandit
Staff member
Or, given recent plot developments, an old style Brent and a new style Jade.
figmentPez
Staff member
Yeah, and it's actually improved in some aspects. His mini-series on the console wars was pretty decent.
... I may start reading CAD again.
Nah, he's still shit.
GasBandit
Staff member
Better than PVP. Has been for a while. Faint praise that it is.
I could do with a little less "oh ha ha look at the psychopath" humor what with the numbered players. How often can one go to THAT well before it dries up? Hint - about 20 times ago.
But the game commentary humor is pretty good.
I could do with a little less "oh ha ha look at the psychopath" humor what with the numbered players. How often can one go to THAT well before it dries up? Hint - about 20 times ago.
But the game commentary humor is pretty good.
At least he isn't using that stupid chef thing
I do have to agree with TheGuy up to a point: if PvP were launched now, it'd have maybe 10% of the userbase - even the early work. There's far more contenders for our attention - at much higher quality - than there were 10 or 15 years ago.
It's gotten much harder to become succesful in webcomics than back in the day with limited competition. Talent alone doesn't necessarily have much to do with it anymore.
Take PA: I think they're two very talented guys and I'm happy they're as successful as they are - but look back at the first few weeks of comics and wonder if, if you found that as a brand new webcomic today, you'd add it to your list. And no, two-guys-on-a-couch wasn't original at the time, either.
It's gotten much harder to become succesful in webcomics than back in the day with limited competition. Talent alone doesn't necessarily have much to do with it anymore.
Take PA: I think they're two very talented guys and I'm happy they're as successful as they are - but look back at the first few weeks of comics and wonder if, if you found that as a brand new webcomic today, you'd add it to your list. And no, two-guys-on-a-couch wasn't original at the time, either.
GasBandit
Staff member
Aaand of course the very next comic after me saying that is another "laugh at the psychotic bitch who's Ethan with tits and a green paint job" comic that doesn't even get a chuckle.