Breaking Bad (here there be spoilers)
- Thread starter Ravenpoe
- Start date
short answer: misogyny
long answer: http://www.nytimes.com/2013/08/24/opinion/i-have-a-character-issue.html?_r=0
I didn't like Skyler when she was taking the moral high ground with Walter when she was no saint, but I'd say she's proven herself to be a better person as of now.
And I don't think its misogyny. I think its because she opposes the protagonist who we've followed and rooted for for five seasons (though I don't think many people are still rooting for Walter).
And I don't think its misogyny. I think its because she opposes the protagonist who we've followed and rooted for for five seasons (though I don't think many people are still rooting for Walter).
I like Skylar as a character. I think people may not like her because, most of the scenes with her are uncomfortable. Painfully so. And that really speaks to the acting power of both Anna Gunn and Bryan Cranston, because moments between the two characters -are- painfully uncomfortable.
It's kinda like watching your parents fight.
It's kinda like watching your parents fight.
He exonerated Skyler and gave up Holly without incident. It's not much, but it's one decent choice.
Yeah, I guess the thing that confuses me about the Skylar hate is that I think they only way you can "hate" her is by not enjoying a rich, complex character. She's not a character the writers use to annoy the audience by having her just randomly do things to throw a wrench in the plot (see: Andrea from Walking Dead), she's a character that acts human, does human things, is often strong and equally as often weak.
Thats good storytelling right there, and it's ok if she causes frustration for being human, Walter does too. I think the thing that makes people have to bring up misogyny here is the WAY in which people react to her and I can't say it's not misogyny. I guess I don't know but considering how misogynistic our culture is in general it wouldn't surprise me.
Thats good storytelling right there, and it's ok if she causes frustration for being human, Walter does too. I think the thing that makes people have to bring up misogyny here is the WAY in which people react to her and I can't say it's not misogyny. I guess I don't know but considering how misogynistic our culture is in general it wouldn't surprise me.
As usual, you're an idiot.
Can we stop falling back on hating a character because they're a woman nonsense?
If the main character was a bad-ass female in charge of something illegal and seedy and she was married to a fun-blocker husband, with terribly long drawn out scenes that are the weakest link to the show, people would hate him just as much as Skyler. The better you make the main character, the more people hate ANYONE who gets in their way of entertaining the fans.
Tony Soprano and Dexter are the same way. They're evil sons of bitches but we love them. Both have annoying fun-blockers that drew away from people really wanted. Anyone who fun-blocks the characters are immediately despised and hated, no matter how morally righteous and good they are.
That's why I hate the character of Skyler. So fuck her.
On top of that...
She has had all the opportunity in the world to enforce the moral high ground she pretends to have and turn Walt in and she doesn't. She takes dirty money and gives it to her lover (a lover she fucked in spite of her husband), all while pretending to be a "good person". She becomes an accomplice to Walt's business even though she knows it is wrong. She has had opportunities to get her kids away from Walt and didn't take them. Let's not even go into hoping "the cancer to come back".
If that makes Skylar "non-archetypal" and "strong", well then I'll just eat my hat.
She only did what she did the last episode to turn her entire family against Walt (with no explanations of his actions) because Walt was in a bad place and attacked HIM with a knife, a crime they lied about and state he attacked her with the knife.
Misogyny my ass.
It has nothing to do with her being a woman.
She's a bitch and I hates her you twit.
"Fun-blocker"
Walt, having so much fun watching Jane die, murdering dozens directly and indirectly, melting a kid in an acid barrel, blowing up a nursing home, poisoning a child, raping his wife, supplying an insanely addictive drug at higher purity than anyone else can, I'm not cheering for him.
They had just found out that he directly (or indirectly since Walt was his usual lying, vague self) just caused the death of their brother in law and uncle respectively...of course, this is after his son also had only just learned he's a murdering drug lord. It was the, "I've had alls I can stands and I can stands no more." abusive relationship moment.
That we can feel sympathy for Walt at all just goes to the writing of the show.
Absolutely, great writing in general.
Here's a retort.
Why blame Walt when it is obviously not him who was in control of the situation that happened in the desert? Hank set him up and Walt already retired and decided to give up peacefully when he clearly had other options. Marie knew this and they even "made fun of Walt's situation" when they spoke. Hank setup the time and place where he died with no control coming from Walt. Walt tried to stop it but in the end was powerless to do so.
We can't blame him for what happened any more than we can blame everyone else who was involved.
As far as abusive relationship goes, I don't think it really was. Skyler was no angel herself and in many ways caused herself a lot of hardships.
When she found out that Walt was "arrested", she was quick to play the innocent, oh woe is me, role when clearly she wasn't. As mentioned before, she can't take the high ground when she was as involved as she was.
Either way, fuck Skyler. She's a bitch and that's all folks.
For the other "replies."
Not going to waste any more energy on clarifying more than already spent.
Rape.... lol
Before I came to read a lot of people didn't like Skyler online, I was not a fan of her character in the earlier seasons. The later seasons I don't mind her as much, I think the issue that set me to not like her in at least season 1 and 2 was the actress has or can summon for the purposes of Skyler; Resting Bitchy Face. That with the fact that the early season scenes that have that uncomfortable mood(As Ravenpoe mentioned) just amplify off each other.
I like Marie's character and IIRC she started off with darker secrets then Skyler, she also got on Hank's back on occasion, she has other faults but her character does not project the abrasiveness that Skyler can muster.
I like Marie's character and IIRC she started off with darker secrets then Skyler, she also got on Hank's back on occasion, she has other faults but her character does not project the abrasiveness that Skyler can muster.
Honestly, I don't really hate Skyler. It's Marie who I think is far more deserving of hate.
Final two episodes are going to be a little longer than usual. Vince Gilligan said he was pretty sure they were going to clock in at an extra 7-8 minutes each, now Peter Gould has confirmed with commericals they will be 75min each, compared to the usual 64.
https://twitter.com/petergould/status/380463937033994241
Not terribly exciting, but if you're one of those people who records it with DVR or whatever, probably should make sure to remember that.
https://twitter.com/petergould/status/380463937033994241
Not terribly exciting, but if you're one of those people who records it with DVR or whatever, probably should make sure to remember that.
On the one hand: hating a woman and calling her a bitch does not automatically make one mysogynistic. Bitch is the female form of asshole, and does not suddenly imply negativity because of femininity.
On the other hand, while the hatred/distaste towards the character is, for a lot of people, probably just the result of sympathising with the protagonist, a lot of the added vitriol comes from the ever-present "lol women suck" faux mysoginy that still pervades both the internet and gaming culture. I'm saying "faux mysoginy", but I do not mean to imply this is any better or worse than the old kind - I mean it's not what it pretends to be - infantile and insecure teenage boys acting out against strong women/all women/homosexuals/etc aren't the same as the old type of those same discriminations, sociologically speaking. The roots are quite different. Both types suck, clearly.
Anyway, I don't think Jay is a mysoginist for disliking the character. I do think a lot of the hate being thrown that way is mysoginy. Also, I completely forgot how to spell mysoginy.
On the other hand, while the hatred/distaste towards the character is, for a lot of people, probably just the result of sympathising with the protagonist, a lot of the added vitriol comes from the ever-present "lol women suck" faux mysoginy that still pervades both the internet and gaming culture. I'm saying "faux mysoginy", but I do not mean to imply this is any better or worse than the old kind - I mean it's not what it pretends to be - infantile and insecure teenage boys acting out against strong women/all women/homosexuals/etc aren't the same as the old type of those same discriminations, sociologically speaking. The roots are quite different. Both types suck, clearly.
Anyway, I don't think Jay is a mysoginist for disliking the character. I do think a lot of the hate being thrown that way is mysoginy. Also, I completely forgot how to spell mysoginy.
I agree, it's a gendered insult, just like "prick". There's not really any reason to use it, and it has a lot of negative female connotations when used towards men and women.
In terms of criminality, Marie is small potatoes when compared to Walt (drugs) or Skyler (white collar crime).
Earlier in the show, Marie had been going to open houses and crafting background stories for her and an imaginary family. She'd tell one realtor that she and her husband had been artists in London, and then tell another that her husband was a NASA astronaut. She'd also help herself to some trinkets from every house she visited.
I get why she stole those things; she's a kleptomaniac. But why all those elaborate but fake autobiographies? My theory is she had been used to being the center of attention. At the time, Walt was recovering from cancer. Skyler had a new baby to take care of. Hank was still mostly bed-ridden from multiple gunshot wounds AND was a difficult patient to boot. Maybe those stories were her way of getting people to focus on her again.
Earlier in the show, Marie had been going to open houses and crafting background stories for her and an imaginary family. She'd tell one realtor that she and her husband had been artists in London, and then tell another that her husband was a NASA astronaut. She'd also help herself to some trinkets from every house she visited.
I get why she stole those things; she's a kleptomaniac. But why all those elaborate but fake autobiographies? My theory is she had been used to being the center of attention. At the time, Walt was recovering from cancer. Skyler had a new baby to take care of. Hank was still mostly bed-ridden from multiple gunshot wounds AND was a difficult patient to boot. Maybe those stories were her way of getting people to focus on her again.
They purposefully haven't made Skyler the most sympathized with character because that would have been the easy route. They could have made everyone love her but instead went with the angle that she's a complicated human. That she isn't black and white and isn't the total victim. That she is *trying* to take care of her kids and herself and that she does love Walt but that love only goes so far. I think to write her off as a "bitch" is, well, not inherently misogynistic, but if thats where you settle it might be worth at least taking a look at why you settled there.
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I can see it now. Cut to a Cinnabon at an Omaha strip mall one year later. Saul is making lewd comments to his female customers; those comments are just enough to rankle them but not overt enough to warrant a complaint. Meanwhile, Huell sitting behind the register, holding a cinnamon bun in one hand and struggling to operate the keys with the other, wearing that Cinnabon golf cap and a uniform that is straining to the breaking point.
I had hoped that Walter was going to go on a rampage to save Jesse, kill the neo-nazis and in some small way save a life that was ruined when he walked into it.
But of course it looks like he's about to shoot up a chemical company for their latest slight of him.
Or is there something that I missed with the reveal of what set him off on his trip back to New Mexico?
But of course it looks like he's about to shoot up a chemical company for their latest slight of him.
Or is there something that I missed with the reveal of what set him off on his trip back to New Mexico?
The last show of the series is going to be Huell still sitting in that safe house waiting for them to tell him it's safe to come out.
"Guys? Hello?"
Executive Producer Vince Gilligan