Town Covers Up Gang Rape to Protect High School Football Season

Necronic

Necronic

Staff member
Why am I mad about it?

The community tried to cover it up. They tried to blame the girl. Media outlets acted like the men were victims just as much as the woman. This matters because it creates a context where justice has the potential to be grossly mishandled, and one where Justice has to be served in spite of the community. Justice matters, it is the only thing the girl can receive now. And they got a slap on the wrist, literally the minimum sentence. Some adults were charged and maybe one of them will go to jail. Every sign looks to the justice system following the bias being put out by the community. Justice was mishandled here.

They should not have received minimum sentences for a crime this egregious.

The adults that worked to cover this up should have been charged.

And now? The community is welcoming the boys back with open arms and putting them right back on the football team. That is...its just disgusting. What is wrong with these people?

How does this NOT make you angry?
 
Dave

Dave

Staff member
He's not registered for life, he's registered for 20 years.

As to did he know what he was doing? Uh...yeah! I mean, people don't try to cover shit up like removing evidence or coercing witnesses unless they know they did wrong.

Why the outrage? Because after these fucking thugs did this did they show any remorse? Or did they bully and threaten the girl who was raped - repeatedly? Want to take some time to guess?

They raped a girl multiple times, tried to cover it up, lied, committed even more crimes while doing that. And what is their punishment? A slap on the fucking wrist and then it's all over. Poor Johnny, whose life might have been messed up! Meanwhile, the guy who did the whistleblowing is going to get 5-10 years and that's not even talking about the poor girl whose life was ruined not just by the assault but by the actions of people who damned well should have known better like the principal of the school, the sheriff, and the coach. All of these "responsible" adults put the fucking football team above the health and welfare of a rape victim.

You wonder why this upsets people? I wonder why it doesn't for you.
 
CrimsonSoul

CrimsonSoul

stienman said:
I agree.



So, in essence, you are arguing that there's no possible way a 16 year old could not understand the magnitude of the crime he was committing. You assert that a 16 year old is mentally and socially fully formed and understands the ramifications of their the decision to rape another human over a period of several hours.

I question the validity of your beliefs. I'd like to see research that shows that every human being of an arbitrary age and up is fully cognizant of the effects of their actions, and thus eligible for the most severe punishments for the crime.

Please prove your point.
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Damn it Charlie, why do you have to always get people riled up... Wait... Steinman? Huh...
 
Necronic

Necronic

Staff member
So you are against trying any child as an adult? Ok, that's a fair stance. This is probably not the case I would be making that stance on, I would probably look towards one of the thousands of young teens that has been sent to jail for 5+ years for a small drugs charge, but hey, if this specific case is the one that made you see the light, then so be it. Now stick by that. If you come by next week talking about how that 15 year old deserves to be tried as an adult for stealing a car, understand what that means.
 
Necronic

Necronic

Staff member
Do you think that minors should ever be tried as adults?

And even disregarding that, do you think that a minimum sentence was acceptable?

There are no emotions in these questions.[DOUBLEPOST=1407866725,1407866684][/DOUBLEPOST]whoops missed your edit
 
Necronic

Necronic

Staff member
Ok so if you're not against that, then what about this case makes you think that it's ok not to try them as adults? Why is this one wrong and the thousands of others right?[DOUBLEPOST=1407866967,1407866777][/DOUBLEPOST]Dude don't "handle" us. I'm not crying. You have a weird view, you aren't the only one and it's probably not the worst. I argued for the invasion of Syria. Someone (can't remember) argued for cop baiting at Occupy Wall Street. I think Gasbandit is basically ok with completely eliminating welfare and possibly encourages a post-apocalyptic "purge" scenario to deal with the poor.

and then there's Charlie.....

Your view is one of the many iconoclasts out here. Some people may be offended by it, but I'm not. I just don't understand it.
 
Dave

Dave

Staff member
I'm for corporal punishment in schools and bringing back the draft.

We all have weird beliefs. I think this one for you is as wacky as you think mine are.
 
GasBandit

GasBandit

Staff member
He should not be out of jail yet.

We can debate exactly how long he SHOULD be in jail (in my opinion it should have been 10 years at the very least, perhaps 20).

However, I think we can all agree that football talent should not be a mitigating circumstance for lessening of a sentence, and 1 year is far to brief, especially given the egregiously heinous nature of the act committed.

That he is back on the football team is also illustration that the Steubenville community still prizes football above justice.[DOUBLEPOST=1407867283,1407867145][/DOUBLEPOST]
Dave said:
I'm for corporal punishment in schools and bringing back the draft.

We all have weird beliefs.
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Actually I could get behind both of those. In fact, I'll go you one further. Instead of a draft, just have 2 years compulsory military service from 18-20.
 
GasBandit

GasBandit

Staff member
Dave said:
:minionshout:

I agree with Gas.

:minionshout:

DEE-dooo-DEE-dooo-DEE-dooo
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You wanna know the REALLY scary thing?

You agree with Robert Heinlein's political vision of proper human society in Starship Troopers (the book).

Just one more step closer to fantasizing about having sex with twin teenaged female genetic clones of yourself, man!
 
Necronic

Necronic

Staff member
Heinlein....man. That guy. So much of his stuff is just....its good. But its confusing. He is SO hard to box in. Sometimes I'm so sure I should be offended, like in Farnham's Freehold. I'm pretty sure that should have offended me. A lot.
 
Bowielee

Bowielee

Sex crime sentences are horribly minor compared to the severity of the crimes. I can attest, albeit anecdotally, that child molesters I have seen in the system have served six month sentences.
 
Necronic

Necronic

Staff member
Hah, wow I just checked out the wiki for that book and one review had this line to describe it:

"an anti-racist novel only a Klansman could love"
 
GasBandit

GasBandit

Staff member
Necronic said:
Heinlein....man. That guy. So much of his stuff is just....its good. But its confusing. He is SO hard to box in. Sometimes I'm so sure I should be offended, like in Farnham's Freehold. I'm pretty sure that should have offended me. A lot.
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Having discussed the matter at length with my father, who is an avid Heinlein fan, the consensus is that basically Heinlein got nastier as he got older. Starship Troopers in 1959 had some though provoking unconventional ideas about the nature of man, politics, and society. Stranger in a Strange Land in 61 pushed the envelope in areas about sex, love, death, and cannibalism. The Moon is a Harsh Mistress in 64 was basically about a war for libertarian independence (no mystery it's one of my favorites).. by 1973, Time Enough For Love had an Author Expy (as mentioned before) having twin female teenaged clones of himself demand that he get them both pregnant (and he sighing and acquiescing), and by 82 he's winning a Hugo award for Friday, which starts off with a graphic chapter-long "fuck your rapist into submission" scene I couldn't even get through.
 
Cajungal

Cajungal

Staff member
One good point that steinman made is that not all boys are necessarily taught how to treat women and are brought up with a sense of entitlement about what women "owe" them. Do I think that means they didn't realize that they were doing something wrong? Absolutely not. I think that more often it's a case of knowing it's wrong but not caring. And he should have finished his full sentence.

And I absolutely believe that, like @GasBandit said, being attached to a popular team sport contributed to his release. It's a shame our prison system is so disappointing. What he should be doing with his free time is talking to a therapist or something, because he made some seriously fucked up decisions. He shouldn't be allowed to take part in clubs or sports until some kind of professional signs off on him going through rigorous training and rehabilitation.

Maybe (ok definitely) that's really idealistic to think that it would help, but at least if he doesn't finish out the sentence he deserves, we're making an effort to educate and mold him into someone who deserves to be outside.
 
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Necronic

Necronic

Staff member
Cajungal said:
Maybe (ok definitely) that's really idealistic to think that it would help, but at least if he doesn't finish out the sentence he deserves, we're making an effort to educate and mold him into someone who deserves to be outside.
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Seems to me we're doing a real good job of molding him into the next Steelers QB.
 
Ravenpoe

Ravenpoe

I personally think all of the people in the town that had attempted to cover it up should have been charged with accessory to rape. But none of that matters, what's important is football.
 
Necronic

Necronic

Staff member
I wish I could say that it was just football, but I think we all have our blind spots. I will admit that I kind of wanted to give R Kelly a pass.

And a toot toot. And a beep beep.
 
GasBandit

GasBandit

Staff member
Necronic said:
I wish I could say that it was just football, but I think we all have our blind spots. I will admit that I kind of wanted to give R Kelly a pass.

And a toot toot. And a beep beep.
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Well, Riley Freeman did have a point.

"I saw that girl, she ain't 'little.' At what point does personal responsibility become a factor? If I try to pee on you, would you stand there, or move out the way? All I'm sayin' is I see piss comin', I move. She saw piss comin', she stayed."

It's not like R Kelly got her drunk/held her down to pee on her.
 
Hailey Knight

Hailey Knight

You know, no one ever sat me down as a kid and told me that kidnapping, drugging, and raping a girl was wrong. Not one person said it. Yet somehow, I knew these things were wrong, because you don't do that shit to a person.
 
Dave

Dave

Staff member
There was a news thing that I read about today that fits right along with this discussion.

Dallas Cowboy's cornerback, Orlando Scandrick, has been suspended for 4 games for testing positive for the drug "Molly" (ecstasy), which is not performance enhancing.

4 games.

But Ray Rice gets only 2 for beating the shit out of his girlfriend.

The lesson? Take Molly and get a 4 game suspension. Beat the shit out of Molly and you only get 2.

I'm not one that believes in the "patriarchy" like most feminists do, but I can't understand how in instances like this that drugs, alcohol, etc. are held in more contempt than the physical or sexual abuse of women.
 
Bubble181

Bubble181

Dave said:
There was a news thing that I read about today that fits right along with this discussion.

Dallas Cowboy's cornerback, Orlando Scandrick, has been suspended for 4 games for testing positive for the drug "Molly" (ecstasy), which is not performance enhancing.

4 games.

But Ray Rice gets only 2 for beating the shit out of his girlfriend.

The lesson? Take Molly and get a 4 game suspension. Beat the shit out of Molly and you only get 2.

I'm not one that believes in the "patriarchy" like most feminists do, but I can't understand how in instances like this that drugs, alcohol, etc. are held in more contempt than the physical or sexual abuse of women.
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And if the average 18 year old was caught with ecstasy, they'd go to jail in many states. Myeah.

Up to a point, people like to give as '"justification" that, when you're talking about these battle-replacement-sports (football, soccer, rugby, basketball - contrast to badminton, ice skating, gymnastics), you'll "always" get people who're hopped up on testosterone, with lots of aggression and so forth. Point being they're supposed to release that energy in the game, not off the field. Look at Suarez: I can understand a player getting off relatively "easy" the first time they bite an opponent - certainly when they're young and inexperienced. The third time he bites an opponent, at the top of a career with plenty of high-pressure experience? That's assault, and the guy should be in prison for 3 months or so.

All anger management stuff with top sports players goes out the window - up to and including abusing women. I can understand a -certain- amount of leniency for people first learning to cope with stuff. However, by the time you're up to beating/raping women, smashing stuff up, or, like a soccer player 'round here a while ago, ramming a house with your Ferrari just for kicks (and because you're angry at the person inside), there's some lines you've crossed - and your status definitely shouldn't shield you from the ill effects of your actions.

If we'll "tolerate" top sports players to behave like that, we're better off just treating them like the animals they're becoming. Mind you, real life blood bowl with athletes hopped up on every conceivable drug would be fun too - but keep the "athletes" locked up in cages then. And no, I'm not saying we should do that, it's inhumane, but letting them run around in normal society isn't always the best choice either.
 
blotsfan

blotsfan

It's so bizzare that after all the instances of Goodell being tough on criminals, that when there is video evidence is the time he decides to loosen up.
 
Charlie Don't Surf

Charlie Don't Surf

Dave said:
I'm not one that believes in the "patriarchy" like most feminists do, but I can't understand how in instances like this that drugs, alcohol, etc. are held in more contempt than the physical or sexual abuse of women.
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Actually true feminism would take issue that you think it's "worse" to abuse women
 
Dave

Dave

Staff member
Charlie Don't Surf said:
Actually true feminism would take issue that you think it's "worse" to abuse women
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As in worse to beat/abuse/rape women than to do drugs? I'm afraid I don't get it. It is a worse crime to do ANYONE bodily harm as opposed to drugs or alcohol - as long as the drugs/alcohol are simply taken and not used in a way to harm others.
 
CrimsonSoul

CrimsonSoul

Question. So in the same vain, if a woman starts to hit a man is it reasonable for the man to defend himself in whatever way necessary to stop the assault?
 
ThatNickGuy

ThatNickGuy

CrimsonSoul said:
Question. So in the same vain, if a woman starts to hit a man is it reasonable for the man to defend himself in whatever way necessary to stop the assault?
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In an equal society, absolutely. Everyone has a right to defend themselves.

The problem is there is that the man will almost always be vilified for it, even if there was a history of abuse from the woman.
 
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