My heart doesn't hurt so much anymore

[LittleKagsin]

I've debated talking about this. And I thought about doing it Anon, but at this point, I don't care.

I'm fucked. And lost. And in so much pain.

As most of you know, I'm married. And I don't want to be anymore. I NEVER EVER thought I would feel this way. But, it's how I feel. And not because he's mean to me or awful, but just because we're two totally different people now - we've been together for 11 years, married for 6 in a couple of weeks. Which, I think is pretty normal.

We act more like roommates? The passion of our relationship is dead and it has been for years now. We float around happily as friends and I love him, but I want..more out of my life? More than what he gives me.

I wish there wasn't such a stigma about divorce.

He doesn't make me happy. He's never romantic to me, we barely speak and I just want...out. And I'm stuck because as far as I can tell, this will catch him totally unaware. He's noticed that I'm unhappy and my depression has skyrocketed these past few months, but I doubt he knows the real cause.

I'm going to talk to him. He deserves that and I'm not a coward, but damn. This sucks.

Am I crazy? I feel like just leaving is the wrong way to go about things - we should probably try to work on our relationship, but I don't want to. I want something else and isn't it worse to just drag it out? Drag out something I don't want anymore? I hurt. I ache. I've sobbed every day at my desk at work for weeks. Last night I cried myself to sleep. And sure, I could go to therapy and get help, which I probably should, but I bet after I talk to him, I'll feel a huge release of some kind.

I'm so sad. I hurt. He deserves someone who loves him more than I have.

 

[Dei]

I know therapy is the running forum joke, but you should 100% try couple's counseling before you go the divorce route.

 

[LittleKagsin]

I know therapy is the running forum joke, but you should 100% try couple's counseling before you go the divorce route.

No, no, I get it, I agree, but....I don't...want to? Which is part of the problem. I have zero desire to fix him and myself. Because we're totally different. What he wants and what I want don't match up, so why not just release both of us so we can do what makes us happy? And be who we are?

 

[Dei]

The other question is how long you've felt that way. If it's been a problem most of the time you've been together, fine. If it's pretty recent, there's the possibility that there's more to it that you aren't seeing right now. Especially when you start talking about depression.

 

[Ravenpoe]

If I could see you in person I'd give you a big hug right now, a rating will have to do.

I've never been married, so I don't feel qualified to give advice there, but I've grown up watching my parents remain in a loveless marriage and it's not good. It sounds like you already know what to do, talking to him is definitely the right thing, and it's going to suck, but it won't suck forever. I fully believe that as long as you are honest, both to yourself and to him, that things will eventually get better, either as a couple or apart, whatever you decide to do.

 

[Tinwhistler]

What you describe is pretty much what ended my previous marriage. And it caught her by surprise, as well. I don't think there are any easy answers, but you have my sympathies

 

[LittleKagsin]

The other question is how long you've felt that way. If it's been a problem most of the time you've been together, fine. If it's pretty recent, there's the possibility that there's more to it that you aren't seeing right now. Especially when you start talking about depression.

I've felt this way probably for..two years now, probably closer to three? So, not during our whole relationship, but for a while. And I have talked to him in the past about being unhappy and specifically what has made me unhappy. And nothing's changed. I've always..had depression? Like, I got diagnosed in high school and was on medication for a while, went to therapy, which I LOVED. But it's been years since I've been on anything.

I know what's triggered it REALLY badly in the past few months, but I don't want to talk about it yet....[DOUBLEPOST=1494513072,1494513013][/DOUBLEPOST]

If I could see you in person I'd give you a big hug right now, a rating will have to do.

I've never been married, so I don't feel qualified to give advice there, but I've grown up watching my parents remain in a loveless marriage and it's not good. It sounds like you already know what to do, talking to him is definitely the right thing, and it's going to suck, but it won't suck forever. I fully believe that as long as you are honest, both to yourself and to him, that things will eventually get better, either as a couple or apart, whatever you decide to do.

Thank youuuu! I wanna give you a hug too.

Any advice is appreciated, qualified or not, so thank you.

 

[Dei]

Relationships can also get stuck in a rut, where one person doesn't even realize that something is wrong, which seems to be where you are at now. You definitely need to open the line of communication.

 

[LittleKagsin]

What you describe is pretty much what ended my previous marriage. And it caught her by surprise, as well. I don't think there are any easy answers, but you have my sympathies

Thank you.

I'm sorry you went through that at all. [DOUBLEPOST=1494513187,1494513107][/DOUBLEPOST]

Relationships can also get stuck in a rut, where one person doesn't even realize that something is wrong, which seems to be where you are at now. You definitely need to open the line of communication.

I think I just feel like I'm beating a dead horse? Because, as I said, I've told him in the past what has made me unhappy and nothing has changed? So why keep reminding him if it's not something he wants to change, you know?

 

[Dei]

One of the reasons I suggested couple's therapy is that it can help with the changes. Change is hard, and automatically dismissing it as not wanting to change is short changing the other person. If therapy is refused, then THAT is the evidence of not wanting to change. I also recommend, no matter what you choose, that you get yourself back to therapy asap.

 

[Tinwhistler]

I've felt this way probably for..two years now, probably closer to three? So, not during our whole relationship, but for a while. And I have talked to him in the past about being unhappy and specifically what has made me unhappy. And nothing's changed. I've always..had depression? Like, I got diagnosed in high school and was on medication for a while, went to therapy, which I LOVED. But it's been years since I've been on anything.

I know what's triggered it REALLY badly in the past few months, but I don't want to talk about it yet....

Yeah, in my last marriage it was much the same. We started off great, but ended up falling into a "roommates/friends with hardly any benefits" relationship. And it wasn't just the sex. We were leading completely separate lives. I started trying to talk to her about it around 1998, 1999. Somewhere thereabouts. My son was born in 2000, so that disruption put anything else on hold for a couple of years, but from say 2002-3 onward, I would talk to her and try to effect some kind of change in our relationship without success--for like 5 years. And honestly, I would have probably soldiered on forever--except that I ended up falling in love with someone else. That reminder of what I was missing in my marriage was the push that led me to divorce.

We never did try the therapy route. But after spending nearly a decade in a loveless marriage with someone I barely talked to, I wasn't really keen on the idea of trying to rekindle the romance.

 

[LittleKagsin]

One of the reasons I suggested couple's therapy is that it can help with the changes. Change is hard, and automatically dismissing it as not wanting to change is short changing the other person. If therapy is refused, then THAT is the evidence of not wanting to change. I also recommend, no matter what you choose, that you get yourself back to therapy asap.

I will look in to it, I promise.

Thank you! [DOUBLEPOST=1494513585,1494513512][/DOUBLEPOST]

Yeah, in my last marriage it was much the same. We started off great, but ended up falling into a "roommates/friends with hardly any benefits" relationship. I started trying to talk to her about it around 1998, 1999. Somewhere thereabouts. My son was born in 2000, so that disruption/business put anything else on hold for a couple of years, but from say 2002-3 onward, I would talk to her and try to effect some kind of change in our relationship without success--for like 5 years. And honestly, I would have probably soldiered on forever--except that I ended up falling in love with someone else. That reminder of what I was missing in my marriage was the push that led me to divorce.

Well fuck, this is really similar. Minus the kids part.

 

[ncts_dodge_man]

Having been married for over 10 years and together for over 12, I can certainly say that my wife and I have hit our own very rough patches that communication does help. We've both almost walked away from each other at least once, but were able to sit down and talk about why and have remained together.

To me, it's worth the effort to try one more time and put in there that if it doesn't change, maybe you should go your separate ways. You should then be able to at least look at it and say you tried rather than just walked away and then possibly have that little bit of doubt.

However, I'm not you and not in your relationship - you can only decide what is best for you. I know this isn't the most helpful, but it's 100% truth.

If it was me, I'd first sit down and think through all of the possibilities that could happen and then talk to the other person and make a decision that's the best for both of you. Therapy, either alone, or couple's could definitely be another part.

 

[strawman]

I wish I could offer some advice that would lead you towards each other, but you've already let this fester too long to the point where you have actively decided that you don't want it to work, and you don't want to put any effort towards making it work, due most likely to a recent opportunity. You've already moved on to trying to figure out how to mitigate the fallout.

You can't.

There's no way to continue down the path you've started without a tremendous amount of pain and heartache.

And that's ok.

You're going to be fine.

One day you'll look back on this and you'll feel a lot of conflicting feelings - relief, regret, happiness, heartache. Right now, though, you've got a wound and it hurts, and you can't see much beyond the thought "how do I make the hurt stop."

The specifics don't matter, and while I could hazard a few guesses it really all boils down to this: You already know that your new path isn't just a hobby, career or even personality change - your path doesn't have room for a relationship with him. It's either him or this path. You already have decided you value this new path more than you value the relationship with him.

However

You will feel regret much more keenly down the road if you don't do at least three things:

1. Seek and obtain successful treatment for your depression. It changes over your life, big events and changes will alter it. You should never make life changing commitments if you suffer from depression and aren't under a controlled plan of treatment. Doubly important if you are entering a new relationship - don't bring unnecessary baggage.
2. Seek individual therapy. Not just for depression, but in general. Recognize that you don't have the tools to deal with what's going on, and you need an objective third party that doesn't have a relationship with you to see more clearly what's going on, and give you the feedback, tools, and perspective to help you make these tough moves.
3. Seek couple's therapy. You may not be trying to fix the relationship at this point. That's fine, but you do need to clear the air, and if you do divorce then you both need to have lines of communication that are so open it's sickening. You may have moved on emotionally, but he hasn't and you have to give him time and space to do so in an environment where you'll be willing and able to contribute positively to his transition. Not to mention it'll help you equally in ways you can't understand now. It's ok to go into couples therapy with the expectation that you'll separate, and have him go in with the expectation that maybe something can be worked out. Let the therapist do their job and open the lines of communication and force you two to have the conversations needed so you can both see clearly what's going on.


Those may seem hard, but what I'm going to suggest is even harder:

Take your time.

You need to take time for the above 3 steps to provide benefits. I know you want out, and you want out right now but that's a condition of a very recent change in your life. What you need to understand is that the change you're making isn't short term, and if it's really worth all the pain and trouble you now face, then it'll still be there 6-12 months later. It may not seem like it, but the other side of the coin is this - if the opportunity that's causing you to change quickly isn't going to be around for 6 months, then it's probably not a very reliable or worthwhile venture. Good things will wait while you rearrange your life. And if the opportunity won't wait, take the 6-12 months anyway, and you may be surprised at the opportunities that come your way once you've finalized everything.

But don't delay opening lines of communication. Unlike moving forums, I do recommend the bandaid approach for this.

"Nate, I am going to be asking for a divorce within the next 12 months. We need to talk about this, and I'm going to actively seek treatment for depression, therapy, and I hope you'll join me in couple's therapy and pursue your own individual therapy. Right now I'm 100% certain we cannot make this work to our mutual satisfaction. It's not fair to spring this on you when I've been thinking about this for two years, but it's going to happen whether you're ready or not and I'm hoping that we can set aside the next several months to figure this out."

It'll be devastating. It'll seem like a joke. It'll take him days or weeks to accept that what you're saying is true, and he'll only really deep down believe it once you actually do get treatment for depression, go to therapy, and set up appointments for couples therapy. He will constantly try to seek what the source or foundation of the "problem" is so he can do something to fix it, but I'm guessing it's not something that can be fixed. There's not going to be an easy way to communicate that to him which is why couple's therapy and personal therapy on both your parts is so very important.

Tell him exactly what's going on - especially the stuff that is the hardest. Do not leave anything out, you don't want to go to couple's therapy and have him find out something you already knew or were doing.

I wouldn't wait any longer - not a day, and were it actually me I wouldn't even wait an hour. Once that's done, do the work for everything above, and once you believe you're in a good place emotionally, and your therapist discussions have helped you see things clearly, then decide if you're going to file for divorce and when. Ideally decide that together - you worked together to build this relationship, you should be working together to disassemble it so it doesn't have to come down as a crash.

My heart hurts for you. I can't imagine what you're going through and the pain you're experiencing. I hope you know who to turn to for comfort and guidance.

 

[Hylian]

I have never been married and I am no expert on relationships by any means. That being said I do suggest counseling first but in the end you have to do what will make you happy and staying around out of obligation isn't doing any favors to your spouse.

*biggest hug*

 

[strawman]

Oh, and be aware that in his pain - and in yours - you may say and do things that hurt the other person. Some of this is frustration, some is heat of the moment maliciousness, and some is merely an expression of pain.

When such things occur, don't act drastically, leave in a huff, and cut things off prematurely. Once you start talking about divorce this suddenly seems like a good option in the heat of the moment.

It may or may not happen, but don't let it be the thing that prevents you both from taking the due time and care required to separate with love.

I'm sure you still love him, and he loves you, let that love guide your separation, not the pain you will both inevitably feel during the process.

And if it's the case that you are interested in pursuing another relationship, delay it. Don't try to start something new until the this one is officially finished. It will wait if it's a good one.

 

[GasBandit]

I may not have any really useful advice on this subject that hasn't already been said, but I definitely know you'll have our support through all of what comes.

 

[Officer_Charon]

First off, I'm so sorry that you're going through this, hon. *hugs*

Speaking only from my own experience, I can state that I understand the feeling of fondness, but not necessarily love. I can state that I had reached a point, through a combination of my own and my wife's actions where divorce was looking like an automatic resort. Neither of us wanted to subject our kids to a loveless marriage.

It was for the kids that I started making more of an effort to pull my head out of my ass, and be more considerate of my wife. Which made her start to reciprocate.

We never did go to couple's therapy, and there is certainly a chance that divorce may still be in the offing. But I was able to get her to start seeing me as a husband again, by treating her as a wife again.

I'm not going to pretend that my situation maps to yours in any way, other than feeling the same sort of frustration at times. But there have been examples of it not working out - just thought I'd offer a counterpoint.

Steinman's offered some solid advice - and it may be that through therapy, one or both of you might find the resolve to rekindle what has been lost. But remember that people change, and not always equally. If it's not going to work, it's not. But I know you wouldn't let it go without a fight, if you thought there was a chance.

*hugs again* I hope that you and he are able to find some sort of resolution, or failing that, some closure.

 

[LittleKagsin]

UPDATE:

He and I talked last night. And it went..well? I guess. He's not super interested in therapy and wants to fix this ourselves. I'll try. I'm just tired.

I'll probably keep details to a minimum since I find this all weird and just...I don't want to talk about it. But yeah.

Thank you guys for all the love, support, advice and just everything. I appreciate each of you.

 

[Ravenpoe]

UPDATE:

He and I talked last night. And it went..well? I guess. He's not super interested in therapy and wants to fix this ourselves. I'll try. I'm just tired.

I'll probably keep details to a minimum since I find this all weird and just...I don't want to talk about it. But yeah.

Thank you guys for all the love, support, advice and just everything. I appreciate each of you.

Even if you don't talk to us about it, I hope you talk to someone, because having a safe space to vent can keep a lot of things from building and festering.

Regardless, I hope things work out for you. I know they will.

 

[PatrThom]

Does he want to fix it? Does he want to stay together? You said that the both of you are different people, living different lives.
Do you(plural) think that, during any therapy/counseling, you(plural) might discover that instead of convincing you(singular) to stay, it might instead convince him that he also wants to leave? If nothing else, this would be my reasoning to go ahead with the counseling, just to discover if this ends up being the case.

--Patrick

 

[LittleKagsin]

Does he want to fix it? Does he want to stay together? You said that the both of you are different people, living different lives.
Do you(plural) think that, during any therapy/counseling, you(plural) might discover that instead of convincing you(singular) to stay, it might instead convince him that he also wants to leave? If nothing else, this would be my reasoning to go ahead with the counseling, just to discover if this ends up being the case.

--Patrick

Yes, he wants to fix it. I...not so much, but I'm willing to try. He wants to stay together, but..more out of habit and comfort? In my opinion, anyway. But he's at a completely different place in all this than I am. I've thought about this for MONTHSSS and I've been unhappy for years, and this is all kind of a shock to him - not that I've been unhappy, he's noticed that, but the why, he is caught rather unawares.

I think maybe yes, counseling would help him to see how different we are. But, as I said before, he doesn't want to go to counseling, so...that's not my call. I think now that everything is out in the open and we can move forward, I can explain myself succinctly enough that he'll understand and be able to see things how they actually are.

 

[PatrThom]

I've thought about this for MONTHSSS and I've been unhappy for years, and this is all kind of a shock to him

If this is all coming as a surprise to him because you've been evolving as a person BUT hiding that person in the basement and putting the face back on of that girl he fell in love with a decade ago every time you're together, then maybe he should spend some time hanging around and getting to know the person you've become. Maybe he'll like that person, maybe he won't, but he'll certainly get a better idea of whether or not he'd want to stay married to that person. People evolve over time, especially artists (of any sort). Catching all that evolution at once is bound to be a shock.

--Patrick

 

[LittleKagsin]

If this is all coming as a surprise to him because you've been evolving as a person BUT hiding that person in the basement and putting the face back on of that girl he fell in love with a decade ago every time you're together, then maybe he should spend some time hanging around and getting to know the person you've become. Maybe he'll like that person, maybe he won't, but he'll certainly get a better idea of whether or not he'd want to stay married to that person. People evolve over time, especially artists (of any sort). Catching all that evolution at once is bound to be a shock.

--Patrick

I mean, I disagree to a certain extent: I don't think I've been hiding. I mean, he's seen all my changes, he's watched everything unfold. It's the why that he's shocked about. He didn't realize I had issues with mine and his relationship. He didn't know how unhappy I've been because of the marriage. He thought my unhappiness was all external - jobs, school, my general station in life, not relationship related.

So, now. Onward and upward.

 

[Dei]

Yes, he wants to fix it. I...not so much, but I'm willing to try. He wants to stay together, but..more out of habit and comfort? In my opinion, anyway. But he's at a completely different place in all this than I am. I've thought about this for MONTHSSS and I've been unhappy for years, and this is all kind of a shock to him - not that I've been unhappy, he's noticed that, but the why, he is caught rather unawares.

I think maybe yes, counseling would help him to see how different we are. But, as I said before, he doesn't want to go to counseling, so...that's not my call. I think now that everything is out in the open and we can move forward, I can explain myself succinctly enough that he'll understand and be able to see things how they actually are.

You can say it's not your call on whether or not he wants to go to therapy, but you should tell him that you asked him to change and it didn't happen, and you feel like without therapy the status quo will stay the same and you will just become more miserable and resentful. It might sound guilt trippy to you, but in reality, if you don't demand the things you want now, nothing is going to get better. Tell him that therapy is not an option to you, if he doesn't feel like trying what you feel is a last resort, then maybe it ISN'T worth staying. But you need to be very clear about how long you feel you've been asking for changes.

 

[Tinwhistler]

You can say it's not your call on whether or not he wants to go to therapy, but you should tell him that you asked him to change and it didn't happen, and you feel like without therapy the status quo will stay the same and you will just become more miserable and resentful. It might sound guilt trippy to you, but in reality, if you don't demand the things you want now, nothing is going to get better. Tell him that therapy is not an option to you, if he doesn't feel like trying what you feel is a last resort, then maybe it ISN'T worth staying. But you need to be very clear about how long you feel you've been asking for changes.

And while my situation doesn't match Kags', it does sound like it was very similar to what she's going through now, which is why I keep chiming my two cents in. My resolution wasn't necessarily the right one for anyone but me, and I'm certainly not advocating that she divorce her husband, or that she will (or should) end up with a similar resolution. But regardless of how things turn out for her, I hope my sharing helps her come to grips one way or the other.

With that said, when I told my wife I wanted a divorce, she wanted an opportunity to make changes. And, like Kags, I agreed. And for the next 8 weeks, she made no effort to change anything. She still blew me off when I tried to schedule couple events/dates/etc. She still holed up in her office all day fiddling with her hobbies. She still barely spoke to me about anything, and often ignored me when I tried to initiate conversation. Basically, she continued the same behavior that made me feel like I had a roommate and not a wife and life partner. She still continued to hide finances (like the something-like 11 credit cards she had that she still to this day has not admitted to owning). The money wasn't the issue--the lying by omission and lack of trust and sharing was.

She tried initiating sex once in that 2 months, but after all the resentment I had built, and after going without for like 8 months prior, it field weird and icky like random one-night-stand sex. Or even worse, because all I could think about was that she was trying to buy her place in my life with her vagina (which could totally have been in my head, but I couldn't banish the thought).

So, after those 8 weeks were up with almost no effort from her to make any change, my mind was made up and I followed through with the divorce.

I didn't end up with the girl I'd fallen in love with. She broke my heart. But the next girl that came along after that...well, that's turned out rather well. Life goes on. You move through the painful bits because the good bits are worth it.

 

[ThatNickGuy]

I'm super late seeing this thread and all the good, helpful advice has been doled out.

So I'll throw in a Kindergarden Cop reference to the thread title:

"It might be a tumor!"

 

[strawman]

UPDATE:

He and I talked last night. And it went..well? I guess. He's not super interested in therapy and wants to fix this ourselves.

I'm glad you feel better about talking. Even if he doesn't want to go to therapy, I really, really strongly suggest you go do your own therapy, and I still believe you should attend to your mental health. Maybe the doctor will say you're fine and therapy is sufficient, but it's possible there's a physical/hormonal cause that should be adjusted. Either way, please ask for help. Especially if he's not willing to go to couple's therapy.

 

[Ravenpoe]

Also, and I'm just going to throw this out there, but if you were to get a chinese wife, now would be the time.

 

[Emrys]

Whatever happens, we love you and think you're a wonderful person.

 

[DarkAudit]

I have no answers, only hugs.

 

[figmentPez]

I wanted to stop in here and thank everyone for their advice and encouragement. Kags is a very dear friend, and it means a lot.

 

[LittleKagsin]

Hello fools. I just wanted to say thank you so much for all of your thoughts and hugs and advice.

I had lunch with one of my dearest friends yesterday and he really helped me get some perspective on things, it was kinda exactly what I needed. And I feel...really good actually.

So, I'll keep you all updated as things progress, but I'm genuinely happy for the first time in a long while and I know I have a direction. I'll work on getting help for my own mental issues, but I hope you guys aren't like...panicking or anything for me. I've kept open lines of communication with Nate and I feel good. No more tears. I love you guys so very much.

 

[ThatNickGuy]

I'm super late seeing this thread and all the good, helpful advice has been doled out.

So I'll throw in a Kindergarden Cop reference to the thread title:

"It might be a tumor!"

...shit, I thought the title said "head," not "heart."

Well that doesn't make my reference as funny. =/

 

[fade]

I can only offer sympathy. I know this feeling. I've been going through it for some time. The only thing that I can say is to not let yourself be hindered by people who hold marriage as a sacred union. That may work for them, but not for you.

I can counter some things said in many advice pieces. Everyone always wants to say it's about opening lines of communication. That's one of those things that's nice on paper. In my experience, which sounds like I'm the you in your situation, I have tried. Oh wow have I tried. But opening lines is a two-way street, and you cannot force the other person, no matter what. I can also tell you that couple's therapy traditionally doesn't work. It has a poor statistical track record.

Sometimes things are just over, and I think as a society, we need to get past the idea that you shouldn't let something end because it absolutely must continue. Those vows--for better or worse, sickness and health--they were meant to be taken as a couple. If it's just you beholden to them, there is no longer a couple anyway.