[Movies] MCU: Phase 3 And Beyond
- Thread starter BananaHands
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Not naming any names!
There's a spoiler thread; no need to pollute here.
B
BErt
Adam's Sober Second Look
Coming out of the movie theatre after a good movie is always an exhilarating experience, especially one that had intensity up to 11 and was a swan-song for over 10 years of movies that I've enjoyed, so it was a little difficult to tamp down my enthusiasm when relating how good the movie was to my not-so-intense fan of a wife. "Best movie of the whole series" "One of the best movies of the last 10 years." were definitely words I used to describe it to her, and she marvelled at just how over the moon I was at the whole thing.
After a terrible night's sleep, and some opportunities to rethink the movie and it's impact, I can offer an additional reflection on this massive event experience, and for the most part it holds up pretty well, presuming that you're a hyper-fan and enjoyed the copious, copious, copious, dripping from the seams and drenched in butter level of fan-service attached to it. It is an emotional, gut-punch that wraps up in a bow so many different dangling plot-threads from so many different movies that it will take weeks to recognize and categorize all of them. At its core, and most importantly, it's still a good movie with energy, charisma, star-power, and amazing VFX. It's weaknesses aren't unheard of in these kinds of movies and I don't think anyone is surprised that there are some lulls in pace in the middle hour, some odd editing choices where it could have tightened up a bit, music cues that didn't always land appropriately, some logical leaps that will only be noticeable on third and fourth viewings, and a lot of side-threads that will only appeal to a limited demographic.
But in the end, it doesn't matter. This movie oozes confidence, flies its crazy flag high, and successfully concludes 11 years of movies so well that I can safely say I could close the book on the MCU tomorrow and be perfectly happy with the journey. This was my Star Wars, LOTR, and Harry Potter rolled into one satisfying conclusion. And it did it so well that even if it wasn't perfect, this was a 10/10 for difficulty that the fact it even stuck the landing puts it at the top of the MCU list forever.
The greatest compliment I can give it personally would be that I can't name one of my favourite parts because there are too many to narrow down. One day I want to shake the hands of the Russo brothers and just thank them for doing such a damn fantastic job. Not too bad for directors of You, Me, and Dupree.
Coming out of the movie theatre after a good movie is always an exhilarating experience, especially one that had intensity up to 11 and was a swan-song for over 10 years of movies that I've enjoyed, so it was a little difficult to tamp down my enthusiasm when relating how good the movie was to my not-so-intense fan of a wife. "Best movie of the whole series" "One of the best movies of the last 10 years." were definitely words I used to describe it to her, and she marvelled at just how over the moon I was at the whole thing.
After a terrible night's sleep, and some opportunities to rethink the movie and it's impact, I can offer an additional reflection on this massive event experience, and for the most part it holds up pretty well, presuming that you're a hyper-fan and enjoyed the copious, copious, copious, dripping from the seams and drenched in butter level of fan-service attached to it. It is an emotional, gut-punch that wraps up in a bow so many different dangling plot-threads from so many different movies that it will take weeks to recognize and categorize all of them. At its core, and most importantly, it's still a good movie with energy, charisma, star-power, and amazing VFX. It's weaknesses aren't unheard of in these kinds of movies and I don't think anyone is surprised that there are some lulls in pace in the middle hour, some odd editing choices where it could have tightened up a bit, music cues that didn't always land appropriately, some logical leaps that will only be noticeable on third and fourth viewings, and a lot of side-threads that will only appeal to a limited demographic.
But in the end, it doesn't matter. This movie oozes confidence, flies its crazy flag high, and successfully concludes 11 years of movies so well that I can safely say I could close the book on the MCU tomorrow and be perfectly happy with the journey. This was my Star Wars, LOTR, and Harry Potter rolled into one satisfying conclusion. And it did it so well that even if it wasn't perfect, this was a 10/10 for difficulty that the fact it even stuck the landing puts it at the top of the MCU list forever.
The greatest compliment I can give it personally would be that I can't name one of my favourite parts because there are too many to narrow down. One day I want to shake the hands of the Russo brothers and just thank them for doing such a damn fantastic job. Not too bad for directors of You, Me, and Dupree.
Copy/pasting this part from my long rant in the spoiler rant, since it's something that maybe warrants a separate discussion. Kind of less on the movie itself but more the feeling it left me with as I walked out.
This felt like such a satisfying conclusion to the past 10 years and 20-some movies that...I'm not sure I really feel like seeing anything past this. Sure, they set things up for the future and hinted at others, but I'm honestly not sure if anything will ever top this build up and finale. I'm not sure if I'm game for another 20 movies culminating in another big, operatic finale. Not because it wouldn't be awesome, but I don't think they can accomplish the same trick twice (maybe me in 2029 will think otherwise). There's so many emotions that I don't think they could evoke a second time.
I'm not saying I won't see future movies, but I feel a lot less inclined to see them, now. On the one hand, I wish they'd set up some kind of tease at the end of this (ala Thanos in the first Avengers), but on the other hand, it wouldn't have felt like a definitive conclusion then. Of anything from this, I'm probably most looking forward to Guardians 3. The solo movies should still be fun, but I just don't see what they could build up to if they use a similar formula for the next phases. My first thought is all the time-travel catches the attention of Kang.
But yeah, I don't know. I felt so definitively satisfied by this that I don't think the magic will ever be recreated. Even though I have a feeling they'll try.
This felt like such a satisfying conclusion to the past 10 years and 20-some movies that...I'm not sure I really feel like seeing anything past this. Sure, they set things up for the future and hinted at others, but I'm honestly not sure if anything will ever top this build up and finale. I'm not sure if I'm game for another 20 movies culminating in another big, operatic finale. Not because it wouldn't be awesome, but I don't think they can accomplish the same trick twice (maybe me in 2029 will think otherwise). There's so many emotions that I don't think they could evoke a second time.
I'm not saying I won't see future movies, but I feel a lot less inclined to see them, now. On the one hand, I wish they'd set up some kind of tease at the end of this (ala Thanos in the first Avengers), but on the other hand, it wouldn't have felt like a definitive conclusion then. Of anything from this, I'm probably most looking forward to Guardians 3. The solo movies should still be fun, but I just don't see what they could build up to if they use a similar formula for the next phases. My first thought is all the time-travel catches the attention of Kang.
But yeah, I don't know. I felt so definitively satisfied by this that I don't think the magic will ever be recreated. Even though I have a feeling they'll try.
I know I haven't seen most of these, but even from what little I know, they're really going to have a hard time recreating magic unless they can recreate another cast like this one. And that'd be the real challenge.
--Patrick
Even then, I don't think it'll be hit again, not like this. It's sort of like the first Avengers, where it was unbelievable they could pull off a shared universe. That they stuck the landing on a TWENTY TWO movie build up, with movies from a wide range of genres and tones, is just extraordinary. With hiccups along the way, to be sure, they still managed to create a shared universe unlike anything else.
But if they tried doing this again - 3 phases, 20+ movies, building up to an ultimate culmination - I just don't think they'll pull it off again. I doubt it'll happen, but I could see the next movies seeing a big drop-off in interest BECAUSE this ended on such a satisfying note.
Disney had better have their financial expectations in check. No "we had to lay people off because this movie was too successful because stock market" bullshit.
I was just discussing with a friend where the MCU could go from here. Assuming they follow the same 3-Phase build up like this.
We thought maybe Kang, but I think I'm all time-traveled out now.
Secret Wars could be fun - and the Russos said they're game for it. Could be a good way to introduce the Fox properties.
Galactus, though he's probably more a one-Phase villain ala Loki or Ultron.
Then I realized who they could do.
Annihilus.
They've already established a space opera sized franchise (plus Captain Marvel and Thor adding on more).
Avengers: Annihilation does have a nice ring to it.
We thought maybe Kang, but I think I'm all time-traveled out now.
Secret Wars could be fun - and the Russos said they're game for it. Could be a good way to introduce the Fox properties.
Galactus, though he's probably more a one-Phase villain ala Loki or Ultron.
Then I realized who they could do.
Annihilus.
They've already established a space opera sized franchise (plus Captain Marvel and Thor adding on more).
Avengers: Annihilation does have a nice ring to it.
Hmm.
They could do that whole separation of Hulk and Banner arc with him challenging everyone in the desert.
Secret Wars, yeah, though we've already had Venom introduced so so much for that whole thing.
Hulk wandering the multiverses sounds more like an episodic TV show than a movie franchise.
They could take a stab at reviving DP7 or do a Power Pack film?
...OR MAYBE THEY COULD MAKE A DECENT FANTASTIC FOUR FILM HUH?
--Patrick
They could do that whole separation of Hulk and Banner arc with him challenging everyone in the desert.
Secret Wars, yeah, though we've already had Venom introduced so so much for that whole thing.
Hulk wandering the multiverses sounds more like an episodic TV show than a movie franchise.
They could take a stab at reviving DP7 or do a Power Pack film?
...OR MAYBE THEY COULD MAKE A DECENT FANTASTIC FOUR FILM HUH?
--Patrick
The symbiote was only one of MANY things going on in Secret Wars. And honestly, the MCU takes a lot of liberties on the source material. Civil War the movie is VERY different (and much better) than it's comic counterpart. Age of Ultron only shares the name with the comic event of the same name. Doing Secret Wars without the symbiote is totally doable.
It'll depend on how realistic they are about the whole thing. If Disney/Marvel expects the next movie to be another $1B+ blockbuster, obviously they'l lb e disappointed. If they try to keep the stakes up now forever and ever, they'll lose everything they built up. The only thing they could do is to first make a few smaller, light-hearted movies - either more fun romp à la GotG or more "human"/small-scale stories like...err, some of the earlier ones. Maaaybe they can rekindle interest, but between the MCU and the DCU, the X-Men franchise, etc there've beenso many superhero movies (and series on Netflix and Warner and whatnot) that I think we're going to need a decade for interest in the genre to come back and allow a decent new build-up.
A prequel, from all accounts so far.
That's kind of what I feel, too. If they're going to build another multi-movie huge mega-arc, they're gonna have to start fresh, and build it back up by exploring those other characters (while slyly adding more and more information about the mega-arc as each film progresses)
That seems to make more sense than trying to jump off from EndGame, hoping to keep moving upward.
I'd prefer the MCU keep their original strategy of casting the right person for each role, and turn them into megastars in the process. Chadwick Boseman, Tom Holland, Chris Pratt, Chris Hemsworth, etc. They were not superstars before they joined the MCU, but they are now, exactly because they were perfect for the roles they played.
Even Downey Jr was in a huge career slump mostly due to his drug troubles. Iron Man really revitalized his career in a big way.
It makes more sense to focus on a smaller next step than to focus on what big movie might happen in 2029 or 2030.
That said, the whole "can't top this" thing was said about Avengers in 2012. The building of this multi-movie arc struggled along the way, it can be structurally improved upon. It also isn't all Central to us. As there were kids who grew up with phases 1, 2, and 3, there will be kids for whom phases 4, 5, and 6 are their MCU.
That said, the whole "can't top this" thing was said about Avengers in 2012. The building of this multi-movie arc struggled along the way, it can be structurally improved upon. It also isn't all Central to us. As there were kids who grew up with phases 1, 2, and 3, there will be kids for whom phases 4, 5, and 6 are their MCU.
Shut your hobo hole.
It's appropriate!
What's funny is this means Zoe Saldana has now been in the top two highest grossing movies of all time, with three in the top five. That sure is a story for the grandkids.
Is she married? Is the role of grandfather to those grandkids still open?
... aww, she is.
You know, I keep hearing people complain how powerful Doctor Strange is, considering he only had his one origin movie and then was shown to be pretty competent in Infinity War and Endgame.
I keep having to remind people that at the end of his movie he basically "Groundhog Day'ed" himself.
He uses the time stone to trap himself and Dormammu in a time loop. We have NO context of how long the loop actually went on before Dormammu relented, so for all we know Doctor Strange was constantly fighting and dying to Dormammu for months, or even years. Every time the loop happened he used different abilities and strategies, and though he lost every time, he still got better and better at his magical talents.
So many people seem to forget this.
I keep having to remind people that at the end of his movie he basically "Groundhog Day'ed" himself.
He uses the time stone to trap himself and Dormammu in a time loop. We have NO context of how long the loop actually went on before Dormammu relented, so for all we know Doctor Strange was constantly fighting and dying to Dormammu for months, or even years. Every time the loop happened he used different abilities and strategies, and though he lost every time, he still got better and better at his magical talents.
So many people seem to forget this.