4)*Tony Stark's funeral* But I don't understand. We all saw the Iron Man suit. How could a penis that size could have even fit in there. I guess we'll never know.
[Movies] Avengers: Endgame Spoilers Thread
- Thread starter Dave
- Start date
If you go by the multiverse theory, all of those timelines already existed. Dr Strange even saw them all
While this would be the best solution, saying that Tony Stark would think of that in the moment of self sacrifice is iffy, and from a story telling standpoint, seeing Thanos get dusted is more poignant
You can't wish for more wishes, that's rule 1.
figmentPez
Staff member
OH! Something I almost forgot to mention in my initial comments:
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I am really looking forward to all the racist tears when Captain America is a black man.
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I am really looking forward to all the racist tears when Captain America is a black man.
I would have preferred it to be Bucky. At least they have similar powers, movesets, shared a deep bond that stretched decades, etc. From my perspective, it would have made more sense, but whatevs.
figmentPez
Staff member
I'd argue that Bucky's similarities to Steve are what make him a bad choice for the next Captain America. Steve was all that is great about America's past, and they've shown that in the movies. Sam has the potential to represent all that is great about America's future. Bucky can't be that in the same way that Sam can.
I got the feeling that Steve had already talked to Bucky about it. Bucky already knew Steve wasn't coming back. Being Cap is more than being strong, it's about knowing what's right, and I can see Bucky agreeing that Sam is better for the job.
I could honestly see Bucky telling Steve that despite the help he received in Wakanda, he's still got too many inner demons to sort out to be comfortable taking up the mantle.
figmentPez
Staff member
Yeah, that whole lack of powers thing really kept Iron Man on the B-list.
You think what made Steve a hero came out of a bottle?
... and, Bucky -also- doesn't have any powers. Nor does Rhodes, Ant-Man, Wasp, Black Widow, Hawkeye, Nick Fury, any of the guardians of the galaxy...
Besides being brainwashed by soviets/Hydra, and getting a sweet-ass metal arm, he's literally just a genetically normal guy...
Plus, his Cap suit from the comic was awful...
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But clearly Thanos got 2 when he destroyed the stones... and his reason for doing it was to not be tempted to make even more wishes...
Seriously though, they even had Thanos talk about using it to make a new universe, so clearly the stones are as powerful as in the comics...
I'm 99.963% sure that's not the case. There are many scenes of Bucky keeping up with Cap physically even without using the metal arm. The fights in Winter Soldier, running as fast as Cap and Black Panther in Civil War, etc. In terms of physical abilities, Bucky is at least equal to Cap.
Dave
Staff member
The whole POINT of Winter Soldier was to prevent the other five super soldiers from being revived and set loose.Turned out to be a moot point, but still.
I wonder what happened to that bad guy. They foreshadowed him like he was going to be this big behind the scenes kind of evil dude but he just disappeared.
I wonder what happened to that bad guy. They foreshadowed him like he was going to be this big behind the scenes kind of evil dude but he just disappeared.
Bucky was treated with a hydra/Soviet version of the super-soldier serum along with the attachment of a cybernetic arm.
Point of order:
Gamora: Alien, could be super-strong, fast, etc
Rocket: Explicitly enhanced (also visible cybernetics now and then)
Groot: Alien, super-strong, etc
Drax: Alien, super-strong, etc
Quill: Half-Celestial, definitely has powers
Mantis: Mind-control powers - Probably the least durable of the team, but still has useful powers (even kept Thanos down for a time)
Nebula: Cyborg (full robot?), super-strong/durable
Thor: Asgardian God of thunder/lightning
Just whom on the GoG did you not think had powers? Drax and Gamora maybe but probably only on their species scale. Everybody does on the "human" scale.
HAD powers. Part of the plot of GOTG2 is that his powers were derived through Ego, and that once Ego perished he became basically a normal human forever. His only abilities now are his space gadgets and guns, similar to how Falcon relies on his wingsuit, robot bird, and guns.
I also find it odd that some people are dissing Falcon, the dude may be normal, but if you watched him in Civil War the guy had a better kill count then Black Widow and Scarlet Witch in the first ten minutes of the movie. He was able to keep tabs on Ant Man in the Ant Man movie, when few others could. He held his own versus Iron Man and War Machine during the Airport battle too, tricked Spider-Man when he had him and Bucky captured, and even outsmarted Vision by using his agility to dodge an attack (though that didn't work out for poor Rhodey).
If the dude is "normal" he is exceptionally skilled regardless and has a quick, strategic mind. That is probably why Cap picked him.
This conversation makes me want to see every single Guardian in a Captain America costume.
Especially Groot.
Especially Groot.
I'll have to re-watch that to be sure. Yes not the whole living planet thing, but nothing? He's still half not-human. I also thought there was the possibility that the "spark" from Ego was under Quill's control now if he wanted to, but again, only saw the movie once when it came out, so not going to make concrete declarations on that old of a memory of things that I thought were left more ambiguous.
It's not ambiguous at all.
Ego says that if he dies, Quill would be just like everyone else. Quill accepts this. Ego dies, and the spark in Quill fades, removing all his power. This is why right after as it looks like Quill is going to die in the planets collapse, Yondu had to fly in and sacrifice himself to save him.
figmentPez
Staff member
Unreliable narrator. Ego has a huge incentive to lie, and has been lying about a lot of things in the movie. Even if he's not (and we assume he actually knows what he's talking about), he may not mean that Quill is merely human without Ego, but that Quill won't have as much power without Ego alive. Quill could still be significantly more than human, while at the same time having that amount of power be considered insignificant to Ego. Keep in mind that Drax and Gamora, among others, are "everyone else" in this case.
I would actually say it's Falcon's social work. Remember cap met falcon (after the jogging incident) because he was leading a veteran support group. He knows what it means to lose and come back, to persevere and help others do the same. It's why cap doing the same after the snap felt so poignant, he was using what he learned from Sam to try to move on.
But Quill didn't show any signs of having retained any celestial powers/invulnerability during IW or Endgame, and we know that James Gunn helped write the Guardian parts. If he has any, either he doesn't know and can't feel it (and it will manifest somehow in G3), or Ego was right.
figmentPez
Staff member
Quill didn't show any overt signs of Celestial powers in GotG1, either. Not until he managed to hold the Infinity Stone, that is.
The point is, Ego created Quill to be an EXTENSION of him. It's in his name (Ego). The only reason he created Quill was to return and help him finally achieve his goal of becoming EVERYTHING by acting as an extra conduit of Ego's own power (cancer metaphor anyone?). That is what all of Ego's kids were made to become, but Quill was the only one that was a success (Ego killed all the others).
When Ego dies, his power dies with him, and thus Quill can no longer tap into it. He may biologically still be part celestial, but since Ego created him to be a conduit of his own powers, Ego being dead means those powers can no longer feed through Quill. This is why he does not use said powers in Infinity War or Endgame when they are most needed (like saving Gamora), because he can't.
As for him holding the Power Stone, that was back when Ego was still alive, and was even hinted to be the reason Ego found him (Not to mention, it still took the other GOTG to share to load for him not to get vaporized) Ego could "feel" the power in Quill, because, again, Quill was an extension of him. Whether he can still do that now is up in the air, but his celestial powers sure didn't save him from being snapped.
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And that's all I'm asserting. I appreciate you finding a clip, though I agree with Pez that Ego is an unreliable narrator as well.
Either way, he's still at least partially not-human, which is enough to say he's not just a "regular" either. This isn't a Terra at the end of FFVI situation. Peter is still partially an alien.
figmentPez
Staff member
Not having Ego's full powers does not mean Quill doesn't have any powers at all. Ego said he took a long time to learn how to use his powers. If Quill using Celestial powers was him tapping into Ego's power, then it could be that without Ego Quill could build up his own abilities but it would take eons to do so. OR Quill's mixed heritage could mean he has different powers than Ego. Or only a small sub-set of Ego's powers. Or require specific circumstances for the powers to become active.
Not using powers in Infinity War or Endgame doesn't mean he doesn't have them, just that he doesn't know how to use them, or the powers he does have weren't relevant. For all the jokes about how lame Quill is, he keeps up with the rest of the Guardians pretty damn well. Anyone notice that? Has someone pointed out that the Guardians are pretty well above human abilities? At the very least, Quill is a pretty remarkable human being.
Did any of the Celestials' powers stop them from being snapped? We don't exactly have any benchmark to even imply that Ego himself would have been immune to the power of the Infinity Stones.
Oh, and let's fall back to the truth that Quill's Celestial heritage means whatever the writers decide it does. I'm just laying out logical ways that what's already been shown on screen is not inconsistent with Quill having some sort of non-human abilities.
That is the thing though. Replace "Guardians" with "Avengers" and "Star-Lord" with "Falcon" and suddenly what's different? Sam fights alongside / versus two men in super metal suits, a man that can shrink or grow, two super soldiers, one super prince in vibranium armor, a mutant kid in a spider suit, a unquestionably powerful robot, a woman with untold psychic abilities, etc...
Look at Black Widow and Hawkeye. One is a woman trained to be an assassin with no super enhnacements, and the other learned to be ridiculiously good with a bow. Why are these guys "acceptable" as powerful Avengers, but Sam Wilson with all his talent and technology and wingsuit, isn't? Why? That is all I am asking here with how people seem to get on Sam's case. The dude is a man among titans and still holds his own.
I agree with this, but that is the case regardless of powers. Do you really think someone like Black Widow would logically be able to hold her own versus Bucky even a bit? She does, in Civil War, but that is because she has to for the story. Everything comes down to what the writers want, thus why Sam is set to be the new Captain America. I just think discrediting his accomplishments is a bit unjust since he was there with Steve through a lot of these movies and didn't show himself as any type of liability. He isn't Steve Roger's Jimmy Olsen.
@ScytheRexx I started a side-thing about the GoG being all "empowered" after @Ravenpoe said they weren't. Making this all about Sam and accusing us of trying to "get on Sam's case" is beside the entire argument about Quill.
What the hell does Sam have to do with this side conversation at all? He's cool, but not empowered, but that's completely irrelevant to the GoG argument.
What the hell does Sam have to do with this side conversation at all? He's cool, but not empowered, but that's completely irrelevant to the GoG argument.
But the conversation started because people said Sam shouldn't be Captain America because he has no powers.