figmentPez
Staff member
The Falcon and The Winter Soldier Spoiler Thread
- Thread starter Shawn
- Start date
Not RAW, but I'll allow it. But, be forwarned I will Beauty and the Beast the hell out of this.
Mephisto, obviously.
I was going to say that it had, in fact, been Agatha all along, but I guess yours works better.
figmentPez
Staff member
The kid from Iron Man 3.
My husband, spoiled by streaming, hates waiting for episodes to come out, so he waits until a whole season is posted and then binges. He was not impressed by episode one of TFatWS when he watched it...a week ago or whatever. But last night he threw on episode 2 and was hooked. Binged the rest.
Anyway, we get to this scene, and he's like, "Oh! Is this what the internet has been going nuts about? I thought it was an outtake from Civil War.".
...well, shit, now *I* want to see the dance party scene in Civil War.
Sorry. I really don't buy that Sharon Carter would become The Power Broker. It seems very out of character for her.
Also, her motivation in this series does not make sense. She personally leads Zemo to her scientist who is crafting the super soldier serum. It shouldn't take a criminal genius to realize that Zemo would kill him. She also attempts to betray Sam and Bucky by helping Karli, but then helping them find Karli at the same time. It's not just a matter of playing both sides here for me, because it just feels off. Nothing of what she did felt like it made sense. Did she want the pardon or not? Did she want the super soldier serum or not?
The other part of this that doesn't make sense is why Sharon Carter was still a fugitive in the first place. Steve, Sam and Bucky all get pardons for the events that happened (and Bucky killed a lot of good people.). Sharon stole a shield. Even if somehow the system was being a prick about it you can guarantee that Steve would never have forgotten about her and let that ruling stand. Just knowing that Sharon was still out there as a fugitive kinda makes Steve look like a total douche-canoe retroactively.
I know people like this series and I'm glad for that. But I have to say I'm disappointed because of how shoe-horned in Sharon as the villain is and how unrealistic her motivations are. It feels like they really went for a "shunned by the system she fought for survival and became more like the villains she once fought" kinda sympathetic villain with her. But they did not achieve that realistically enough for me. This is a woman who chose to fight against Hydra when they revealed themselves to be part of SHIELD. Years later she suddenly has no qualms with selling U.S. secrets and weapons to the highest bidder. It just feels like someone went into the writing room and said "Sharon's a villain now. Make it work."
Sharon Carter about to go Villain.
Edit: It's been a day in a "spoiler" thread, so I'm just removing the spoiler brackets from this.
Also, her motivation in this series does not make sense. She personally leads Zemo to her scientist who is crafting the super soldier serum. It shouldn't take a criminal genius to realize that Zemo would kill him. She also attempts to betray Sam and Bucky by helping Karli, but then helping them find Karli at the same time. It's not just a matter of playing both sides here for me, because it just feels off. Nothing of what she did felt like it made sense. Did she want the pardon or not? Did she want the super soldier serum or not?
The other part of this that doesn't make sense is why Sharon Carter was still a fugitive in the first place. Steve, Sam and Bucky all get pardons for the events that happened (and Bucky killed a lot of good people.). Sharon stole a shield. Even if somehow the system was being a prick about it you can guarantee that Steve would never have forgotten about her and let that ruling stand. Just knowing that Sharon was still out there as a fugitive kinda makes Steve look like a total douche-canoe retroactively.
I know people like this series and I'm glad for that. But I have to say I'm disappointed because of how shoe-horned in Sharon as the villain is and how unrealistic her motivations are. It feels like they really went for a "shunned by the system she fought for survival and became more like the villains she once fought" kinda sympathetic villain with her. But they did not achieve that realistically enough for me. This is a woman who chose to fight against Hydra when they revealed themselves to be part of SHIELD. Years later she suddenly has no qualms with selling U.S. secrets and weapons to the highest bidder. It just feels like someone went into the writing room and said "Sharon's a villain now. Make it work."
Sharon Carter about to go Villain.
Edit: It's been a day in a "spoiler" thread, so I'm just removing the spoiler brackets from this.
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Final episode was clunky, no question, but everything involving Sam was great. The truck rescue was a great hero moment and his speech was just. So. GOOD. Even Steve would've been like, "Damn, that's a good speech."
The finale stuck the landing where it mattered. I have to wonder what was cut since apparently the original plot involved some kind of virus used by the Flag Smashers. They really got the short end of the stick in all this, really. They weren't fleshed out well at all. Which is a shame because Karli and the actress playing her was great for what little we got of her.
The finale stuck the landing where it mattered. I have to wonder what was cut since apparently the original plot involved some kind of virus used by the Flag Smashers. They really got the short end of the stick in all this, really. They weren't fleshed out well at all. Which is a shame because Karli and the actress playing her was great for what little we got of her.
It could have been several episodes longer. I would have been good with that.
Agreed. It feels like they tried to do too much and ended up shorting most of their storylines as a result.
I've heard a lot of the storyline truncation was due to COVID timing, as the pandemic hit when they were halfway through filming. Caused them to completely scrap a planned pandemic storyline (this was why the Flagsmashers were stealing medicines and vaccines), and COVID guidelines forced them to rework most of the last two episodes so most of the fighting was done in large, empty warehouses.
figmentPez
Staff member
Honestly, the pacing of both WandaVision and TFATWS reminded me of a lot of comic book story arcs. Lots of setup, great character moments, tons of references and worldbuilding, then a rushed ending that doesn't really feel like the payoff the story needed.
I don't believe there were any until episode 5 and 6.
Some episodes yes, and some no. But the credits for each one have references and clues that are unique to that episode (nothing too important, though).
figmentPez
Staff member
They were actually supposed to be stealing a vaccine for the dispossessed.
GasBandit
Staff member
Yet another commonality we have. I just watched the whole thing start to finish tonight.
I'd give the series 3/5. Decent enough watch, despite some awkward and clumsy moments, and some pacing problems. But better than a lot of the fare put out that was MCU-adjacent.
Well, as has been said before, the Covid thing kind of screwed up their planned story. Kind of like the uncertainty of a 5th season on B5 messed up the 4th and 5th season.