A Loki Place for Spoilers
- Thread starter ThatNickGuy
- Start date
GasBandit
Staff member
It was Agatha ALL a-LOOOONG 
Dave
Staff member
Going to go back and do that now.
Found this online so I didn't have to:
08.03.1522 Phong Nha, Vietnam
03.31.1492 Lisbon, Portugal
04.23.2301 Vormir
10.25.1551 Thorton, USA
11.22.1999 Cookeville, USA
02.16.2004 Asgard
10.03.1390 Rome, Italy
08.13.1984 Sakaar, Tayo
02.02.1808 Barichara, (Col)
07.14.1708 Porvoo, Finland
12.27.1382 Ego
10.13.1982 Titan
09.21.1947 New York, USA
03.01.1984 Tokyo, Japan
01.03.0051 Hala
08.02.1999 Kingsport, USA
09.24.1001 Xandar
11.23.2005 Beijing, China
07.18.1903 Madrid, Spain
03.31.1492 Lisbon, Portugal
04.23.2301 Vormir
10.25.1551 Thorton, USA
11.22.1999 Cookeville, USA
02.16.2004 Asgard
10.03.1390 Rome, Italy
08.13.1984 Sakaar, Tayo
02.02.1808 Barichara, (Col)
07.14.1708 Porvoo, Finland
12.27.1382 Ego
10.13.1982 Titan
09.21.1947 New York, USA
03.01.1984 Tokyo, Japan
01.03.0051 Hala
08.02.1999 Kingsport, USA
09.24.1001 Xandar
11.23.2005 Beijing, China
07.18.1903 Madrid, Spain
Last edited:
Honestly I am just curious how the whole thing worked.
The whole point of those reset charges is that they reset a timeline to be back on the Sacred Timeline by deleting anything considered a Variant to that time, like for example the minute men that were killed in the 1985 timeline. They basically reverse any changes in that specific point in time back to where it needs to be. If that was the case, why would sending them to different places randomly in time cause them to make branching timelines instead? What would they be deleting that would cause those changes? Unless... Maybe the timeline we are on isn't actually the "Sacred Timeline". Maybe the Time Keepers crafted the Sacred Timeline using their own Variants, and Lady Loki attacked those moments using the reset charges knowing that by doing so it would delete the Time Keeper's Variants and throw all those points onto their old paths, thus causing the breakdown. So many things to consider.
Also was anyone a LITTLE BIT uncomfortable from the whole 2050 segment? The fact is was a hurricane hitting Alabama, the fact it was super powerful because of climate change, the huge Walmart ripoff that towered over the rest of the city like it was straight out of Idiocracy, even down to the little joke about the guy taking part in the "Hurricane Sale" while under the control of Lady Loki? Maybe it's just my own fears of all that becoming our actual reality, but it really took me out of the show for a minute.
Also was anyone a LITTLE BIT uncomfortable from the whole 2050 segment? The fact is was a hurricane hitting Alabama, the fact it was super powerful because of climate change, the huge Walmart ripoff that towered over the rest of the city like it was straight out of Idiocracy, even down to the little joke about the guy taking part in the "Hurricane Sale" while under the control of Lady Loki? Maybe it's just my own fears of all that becoming our actual reality, but it really took me out of the show for a minute.
That’s a lot of Earth specific locations for a timeline that includes all of reality.
This is just comic book movies in general. Since we are from Earth, we are pretty much the center of everything in any story while also maintaining an oddly detached existence from the rest of space. They made fun of this in Endgame when the crew are trying to figure out how to get as many infinity stones as possible with only a limited amount of Pym Particles, and realized three of the six stones were in New York at the exact same time.
It honestly kind of drives me crazy, because when you look at the rest of the galaxy they are all intermingling to some degree other then Earth. Even back when all we had in space was Asgard and the Nine Realms, they made it out like Asgardians had a close relationship with most of the Nine Realms, but just kind of didn't give a shit about Earth for thousands of years until they sent Thor there. Then GOTG happens and there is a vast network of interconnected space civilizations, all having trade / wars / squabbles / adventures / similar currencies with each other and then over here is Earth, just kind of chilling until the random cosmic being takes a road trip or wants a vacation or kidnaps a kid. I mean, Tony Starks old suits are pretty cool, but did you know Rocket Raccoon can repair critically damaged space ships with a paint sprayer thing?
Even after Endgame do you think the President is going to be visiting Xandar in the interest of strong galactic relations considering the GOTG took a big part in the final battle on Earth? Probably not.
Going back to the show at hand...
I would give anything to see half of those places with the TVA.
I keep imagine characters like Ego, Red Skull, or The Grandmaster all watching confused as a bunch of Minutemen appear out of nowhere and start setting off a reset charge.
I keep imagine characters like Ego, Red Skull, or The Grandmaster all watching confused as a bunch of Minutemen appear out of nowhere and start setting off a reset charge.
A lot of what you said applies still in spite of this, but GotG takes place in the Andromeda Galaxy and not the Milky Way.
To be perfectly honest, this makes it even WEIRDER to me.
You can kind of make sense of all this stuff happening and overlapping a little when all these places are part of the same galaxy, but now we are finding out people like the GOTG, Thanos, The Kree, Captain Marvel, The Skrulls, etc were actually zipping the distance BETWEEN TWO WHOLE GALAXIES within a short period and still stumbling onto Earth over everything else.
Back to Loki... some possible theory spoilers depending how right or wrong I end up.
Guys, I was thinking more about the stuff I mentioned earlier and even watched the episode again, and you know my theory about the Time Keepers using Variants to keep the Sacred Timeline flowing? That Lady Loki used the reset charges to remove those "maintainer" Variants in order to throw the entire timeline into disarray? Well, it hit me...
The TVA are ALL VARIANTS.
I can't believe I didn't put two and two together when the "reset charge" made their corpses vanish in 1985, but the Time Keepers didn't just burp out all these people at some point in time, these people were plucked from past Variant timelines just like Loki was, were likely brainwashed or reprogramed, and kept on to keep the Sacred Timeline flowing for all of time. This is why they all seem to be regular humans, and why they appreciate humans aesthetics, analog machines, justice with judges, etc. This is why that commander that was captured was sitting there saying "It was real" and "I want to go home", she likely had dreams of her past timeline and something Lady Loki did broke the programming, making her realize it was real all along.
I bet you money that Mobius himself was likely plucked from the 1990s which is why he is obsessed with the Jetski and soda pop. It's not just a passing fascination, it was once his life before whatever timeline he came from ceased to exist. In a way, this gives the Time Keepers near unlimited soldiers. I wonder how many of those other buildings are filled with other Mobius', all doing other jobs, all from other Variant timelines (OMG THE SCENE WHERE ROVANNA SAYS HE ISN'T THE ONLY ANALYST WORKING FOR HER!). This shit might be getting insane soon.
The TVA are ALL VARIANTS.
I can't believe I didn't put two and two together when the "reset charge" made their corpses vanish in 1985, but the Time Keepers didn't just burp out all these people at some point in time, these people were plucked from past Variant timelines just like Loki was, were likely brainwashed or reprogramed, and kept on to keep the Sacred Timeline flowing for all of time. This is why they all seem to be regular humans, and why they appreciate humans aesthetics, analog machines, justice with judges, etc. This is why that commander that was captured was sitting there saying "It was real" and "I want to go home", she likely had dreams of her past timeline and something Lady Loki did broke the programming, making her realize it was real all along.
I bet you money that Mobius himself was likely plucked from the 1990s which is why he is obsessed with the Jetski and soda pop. It's not just a passing fascination, it was once his life before whatever timeline he came from ceased to exist. In a way, this gives the Time Keepers near unlimited soldiers. I wonder how many of those other buildings are filled with other Mobius', all doing other jobs, all from other Variant timelines (OMG THE SCENE WHERE ROVANNA SAYS HE ISN'T THE ONLY ANALYST WORKING FOR HER!). This shit might be getting insane soon.
Last edited:
A cool idea. The Jet Ski thing has to come up somehow. I was thinking that they would somehow use JetSkis to save the day in the final episode, but I like your idea better. Especially with the Josta cans that Mobius has been drinking he definitely has a very 90s feeling about him. There are also two locations on that list of attacked times that are in 1999. Cookeville and Kingsport. Maybe Mobius is from one of those locations and that was why it was targeted in particular.
No, it's more of a MCU blend. She's the daughter of Lauffey, but MCU is borrowing various Enchantress bits like the name Sylvie.
Really feeling my theory is going to be true the more and more I peek at old clips.
Watching the moment when Mobius is inside Renslayer's office for the first time that episode, they allude that Mobius brings her back souvenirs from time. He makes a comment about one he didn't remember bringing back for her, and she mentions how she has more Analysts then just him. Later on, when he takes a drink and sets it on a table, Renslayer chides him for not using a coaster.
"Mobius!"
"What? The rings are already there.
"Yes, and they are all from you."
(whispers) "Or maybe your other favorite Analyst."
The whole scene is very overt in a deeper meaning, even going so far as to zoom in on him setting down the glass and later the coaster. This isn't just a throw away moment, it's setting up something. He later, once again, comments about the other Analyst while signing the paperwork with a pen he didn't recognize.
I looked into the comics, and most of the TVA are basically clones of Mobius, so I really feel by the end of this we are going to find out that Renslayer has an army of Mobius' doing various jobs around different departments of the TVA, none of them knowing the others exist due to the pure size of the place. This is going to lead to Mobius himself questioning his own existence and ultimately where he came from, leading to him helping Loki with some final event that likely sets up the Multiverse. (and involves riding Jetskis')
"Mobius!"
"What? The rings are already there.
"Yes, and they are all from you."
(whispers) "Or maybe your other favorite Analyst."
The whole scene is very overt in a deeper meaning, even going so far as to zoom in on him setting down the glass and later the coaster. This isn't just a throw away moment, it's setting up something. He later, once again, comments about the other Analyst while signing the paperwork with a pen he didn't recognize.
I looked into the comics, and most of the TVA are basically clones of Mobius, so I really feel by the end of this we are going to find out that Renslayer has an army of Mobius' doing various jobs around different departments of the TVA, none of them knowing the others exist due to the pure size of the place. This is going to lead to Mobius himself questioning his own existence and ultimately where he came from, leading to him helping Loki with some final event that likely sets up the Multiverse. (and involves riding Jetskis')
Considering Josta was only made from 1995 to 1999 (and was the first Energy Drink in the US!) it's entirely likely Mobius is from the late 90's.
Also... the advertisement for Josta?
"Woulda. Shoulda. Coulda." and "Better do the good stuff now"? That's kind of talking about Mobius as a person, isn't it? He thinks jet skis are great and, if he's from the late 90's like they seem to hint he is, then he plenty of opportunity to ride one. But now he can't; he's with the TVA and he's never going to get that chance again. Except he's got Loki just flat out telling him "Why the fuck not? You've got all the time in the world."
Also... the advertisement for Josta?
"Woulda. Shoulda. Coulda." and "Better do the good stuff now"? That's kind of talking about Mobius as a person, isn't it? He thinks jet skis are great and, if he's from the late 90's like they seem to hint he is, then he plenty of opportunity to ride one. But now he can't; he's with the TVA and he's never going to get that chance again. Except he's got Loki just flat out telling him "Why the fuck not? You've got all the time in the world."
Or maybe I'm just reading too much into a soft drink.
The coaster was a hexagon!!!
Mobius believes he was created by the Time Keepers. I don’t think he has any idea that he and everyone else might be just plucked from time, mind wiped, and then given jobs after a thorough brain washing. But those little bits of their personalities still remain.
I've been thinking about the whole Timeline thing when it comes to the MCU and the time travel of Endgame.
* Professor Hulk explains that time travel doesn't affect your future. This plays into the TVA's description of a nexus event where something that WOULD affect the timeline actually splits it off into an entirely separate timeline. It is the nature of the universe to branch off timelines when time itself is changed, but it is the TVA that have disrupted that nature.
* The Supreme Sorceress basically explains the idea of branching timelines to Professor Hulk when he comes back for the Time Stone. She indicates that removing the stone from that timeline would doom it. Now she specifically says that the timeline would be unprotected from the forces of evil, so I don't think she's actually referring to the TVA completely pruning the timeline. Maybe she doesn't even know about the TVA even though she's been protecting the Time Stone.
* If the TVA is allowing the Avengers to remove the stones, that must mean that returning the stones likely keeps the timeline from branching off. If they didn't return the stones then the branched off timelines would just be pruned before anything bad happened to them anyway.
* This finally explains to me why Old Steve Rogers shows up at the end of Endgame. When he goes back he is in the "sacred timeline" still, but he causes absolutely no disruptions of the timeline while he is with Peggy (and if he ever did he probably ended up dealing with the TVA). This means that Peggy kept cap secret from even family members because even Sharon didn't know about Uncle Steve. Which makes that kiss in Captain America 2 pretty creepy. That cap also had to sit idly by while bad things were happening for the 60+ years.
* Professor Hulk explains that time travel doesn't affect your future. This plays into the TVA's description of a nexus event where something that WOULD affect the timeline actually splits it off into an entirely separate timeline. It is the nature of the universe to branch off timelines when time itself is changed, but it is the TVA that have disrupted that nature.
* The Supreme Sorceress basically explains the idea of branching timelines to Professor Hulk when he comes back for the Time Stone. She indicates that removing the stone from that timeline would doom it. Now she specifically says that the timeline would be unprotected from the forces of evil, so I don't think she's actually referring to the TVA completely pruning the timeline. Maybe she doesn't even know about the TVA even though she's been protecting the Time Stone.
* If the TVA is allowing the Avengers to remove the stones, that must mean that returning the stones likely keeps the timeline from branching off. If they didn't return the stones then the branched off timelines would just be pruned before anything bad happened to them anyway.
* This finally explains to me why Old Steve Rogers shows up at the end of Endgame. When he goes back he is in the "sacred timeline" still, but he causes absolutely no disruptions of the timeline while he is with Peggy (and if he ever did he probably ended up dealing with the TVA). This means that Peggy kept cap secret from even family members because even Sharon didn't know about Uncle Steve. Which makes that kiss in Captain America 2 pretty creepy. That cap also had to sit idly by while bad things were happening for the 60+ years.
You have to take into context what happened in Doctor Strange for what she said to make sense. She knows that Steven Strange was destined to use the Time Stone to defeat Dormammu and stop him from merging his dimension with our dimension. By taking the Time Stone, the Avengers would create a timeline where the Time Stone was not around for Steven Strange to use in the future, and thus Dormammu would have nothing to stop him from using his minions to merge the dimensions and doom that timeline. That is why she said taking it would doom their timeline to the forces of evil.
It was only when she learned that Steven Strange was the one that set all these events in motion that she went along with it, because she trusted him based on what she knew about his future.
As an addon.
I don't think the Ancient One knew about the TVA, but I don't think it's because she was ignorant of their existence. I think they just didn't exist till "now". Like the Time Keepers came into existence itself based on something the Avengers did when they did the time heist, and they realized all those others timelines in which they didn't exist kind of sucked, so they decided to just consolidate time into the one they liked using Variants to influence key moments, which just so happened to "originate" at the time heist event. This is why they likely were dealing with a lot of Loki variants, because all the biggest events that lead to this involved Loki and any change to Loki that prevents him from helping form the Avengers isn't kosher to their desires. They need that time heist to happen so they can exist, anything after that they can do whatever they want.
One theory I have, besides "The whole TVA are Variants" theory, is that the timeline we are on ISN'T the real timeline. Why? Well think about that whole ROXXCART scene. 2050 literally has a Hurricane ripping through a town in Alabama that is going to kill thousands of people only 26 years after Endgame. Does that sound like a world stuffed to the brim with people like Captain America, Spider-Man, and all the other dozens of heroes that are starting to appear and likely still doing things? The Eternals? Captain Marvel? Hell, Wakanda is supposed to be doing more to help people around the world and you would think they would have warning of a CAT 11 Hurricane about to erase a small town would lead to some advanced aid. No, I think after the heist, the Time Keepers see heroes willing to subvert time as a BAD thing, and likely did things to get them killed or eliminated over that time period until a world happens where no heroes exist, just regular humans shopping in Idiocracy-style MEGA stores, easy to shape, easy to control, no heroes to save them.
So for the Time Keepers, everything up to Endgame? IT MUST HAPPEN! After that? Now we control the fate of the Universe. We can't change how it starts, but we can control how it ends.
One theory I have, besides "The whole TVA are Variants" theory, is that the timeline we are on ISN'T the real timeline. Why? Well think about that whole ROXXCART scene. 2050 literally has a Hurricane ripping through a town in Alabama that is going to kill thousands of people only 26 years after Endgame. Does that sound like a world stuffed to the brim with people like Captain America, Spider-Man, and all the other dozens of heroes that are starting to appear and likely still doing things? The Eternals? Captain Marvel? Hell, Wakanda is supposed to be doing more to help people around the world and you would think they would have warning of a CAT 11 Hurricane about to erase a small town would lead to some advanced aid. No, I think after the heist, the Time Keepers see heroes willing to subvert time as a BAD thing, and likely did things to get them killed or eliminated over that time period until a world happens where no heroes exist, just regular humans shopping in Idiocracy-style MEGA stores, easy to shape, easy to control, no heroes to save them.
So for the Time Keepers, everything up to Endgame? IT MUST HAPPEN! After that? Now we control the fate of the Universe. We can't change how it starts, but we can control how it ends.
figmentPez
Staff member
It finally dawned on me what seemed so familiar about the TVA; the concept is a lot like a short story by Issac Asimov called "The End of Eternity". I haven't read it in years, and the Wikipedia entry conflicts with some of what I thought I remembered, so it's possible that my memory has blended multiple stories together.
It wouldn't surprise me if the comic writer who created the TVA in the first place was an Asimov fan and was strongly inspired by that story.
I did a little research to see if Walt Simonson had talked about the inspiration for the TVA. I was surprised to find that the initials of the organization was really from the most obvious source.
Also, CBR quotes Simonson about his inspiration for the TVA:
Also, CBR quotes Simonson about his inspiration for the TVA:
Actually, the TVA had nothing to do with Doctor Who. Where do these ideas come from? Just curious. Did you read this somewhere? I've never seen any Doctor Who programs although I drew a few Doctor Who illustrations a zillion years ago for Marvel.
The TVA (Time Variance Authority) was a satire of bureaucracy in general and of Marvel at that particular time and place as the company was moving towards a more corporate model. (The initials of the TVA were taken from the Tennessee Valley Authority, one of the New Deal developments during the depression.) The point of the TVA is that it was an infinite organization and still expanding (a new desk and monitor for each new universe born out of every possible time bifurcation). The office environment was the perfect visual symbol for a bureaucracy as were all the faceless monitors. The one character with a face was middle management and his was the only face you ever saw.
Which is another way of saying that there was no upper management visible. It's possible one didn't exist. Or if it did exist, it was irrelevant to the operations of the TVA.
The purpose of the TVA was deliberately vague. Whether or not the TVA had anything to do with the actual management of time remains a mystery. It's possible it existed to serve itself and had no real function regarding the regulation of time.
Its HQ had a great clock on the front of the facade and the hands of the clock denoted a non-real time.
I mean, one of the main characters in Asimov's story is named "Harlan" soooo...
--Patrick
When I originally watched the first Loki trailer, at first I thought it was John Slattery, not Owen Wilson until later in the trailer. I'm not used to seeing Owen grey instead of his signature blonde. I don't think he's supposed to have anything to do with Howard Stark, but it's nice to know that since this theory is floating around, I'm not the only one who's brain went there.
First off...
Now on to the episode itself.
My Variant theory was confirmed to be true. The TVA is entirely made up of Variants pulled from lost timelines and made to work for the Time Keepers.
They are definitely leaning into this character being a merger of Lady Loki and the classic villain Enchantress. Her powers are all about Enchantment and taking control of others and she renamed herself Sylvie, the same name as the second Enchantress in the comics. Have a good feeling by the end of this we are going to learn she isn't actually a Variant of our specific Loki, but comes from a timeline in which Odin adopted a human instead at some point. Why a human? Well it's mostly that she isn't shown to have the same strength as an Asgardian or Frost Giant, though I admit, they been showing Loki himself a lot weaker in this series then he has ever been, strength wise, so I might be overthinking that one. Either way, it seems they are trying to build the two having a romance, and I find that incredibly in character that the only person Loki could love turned out to be an alternate version of himself.
I mean, there's no other logical way to do it, since
taking anyone out of the timeline without changing it would at the very least require they'd be dead in that timeline starting from that time when they where taken, which would make them being alive the start of an alternate timeline. Obviously being put outside of time negates the new timeline, but they would still count just as much as anyone taken after the timeline split, but was then erased, since neither has a working timeline etc.
Never claimed they were from a regular timeline. The reveal that they are all Variants discounts their own notions that the Time Keepers created them.
Now a few questions.
So the majority of the episode takes place on Lamantis-1 in the year 2077, but I couldn't decide whether it was a future human colony of some type, or an entirely alien civilization. It really could go either way considering we have seen countless human-like races around the galaxies like Rhomann Dey, but much of the visual style like the futurish dump trucks, food carts, trains, etc, really felt more human then anything we have seen from other space civilizations.
It really seems like Sylvie does not consider herself a princess in any way, so it makes me question if she was raised by Odin or not. It could be her timeline has an entirely different take on the Loki myth and how she came to take the name before discarding it.
Lastly, why are they flailing around so much and getting beat up by future cops when Loki can look at a falling building and make it REVERSE DIRECTION. They have never showed him have that kind of telepathic strength. Though, honestly, that moment made me form a theory.
It really seems like Sylvie does not consider herself a princess in any way, so it makes me question if she was raised by Odin or not. It could be her timeline has an entirely different take on the Loki myth and how she came to take the name before discarding it.
Lastly, why are they flailing around so much and getting beat up by future cops when Loki can look at a falling building and make it REVERSE DIRECTION. They have never showed him have that kind of telepathic strength. Though, honestly, that moment made me form a theory.
Finally, THEORY TIME.
None of that stuff happened. Wait what?
The start of the episode establishes how Sylvie's enchantment powers work, and she basically creates an existence in their mind of a past memory. Later on, she attempts to use her powers on Loki in a rather intimate fashion but he scoffs that her powers won't work on him. I think they did. Sylvie knows the planet from a past visit, using it as a hideout. She never specified the place she goes in their head has to be their own memories, what if they can be her memories too? Considering how she looked at him leading into the touch, I think she is actually curious if he could be trusted. How can you get someone to open up about how they really feel? Well, constant assured destruction has a way of removing any filters one might have. Why bother when you will be dead in moments?
In the end they will be sitting around, watching the planet about to impact them, Loki will show his true self, and Sylvie will pull them out of the enchantment and decide to work with him for real. It will then be a repeat of the same day but completely different, playing into the time motif.
The start of the episode establishes how Sylvie's enchantment powers work, and she basically creates an existence in their mind of a past memory. Later on, she attempts to use her powers on Loki in a rather intimate fashion but he scoffs that her powers won't work on him. I think they did. Sylvie knows the planet from a past visit, using it as a hideout. She never specified the place she goes in their head has to be their own memories, what if they can be her memories too? Considering how she looked at him leading into the touch, I think she is actually curious if he could be trusted. How can you get someone to open up about how they really feel? Well, constant assured destruction has a way of removing any filters one might have. Why bother when you will be dead in moments?
In the end they will be sitting around, watching the planet about to impact them, Loki will show his true self, and Sylvie will pull them out of the enchantment and decide to work with him for real. It will then be a repeat of the same day but completely different, playing into the time motif.
Just a thought, but given that these threads are usually created specifically with spoilers in mind, we probably don't need all the spoiler tags?
Dave
Staff member
As long as they are spoilers about the show in question we're fine. But spoilers about "this actor is in IMDB or said this in an interview" should probably still go behind tags.
I’m fine with theories being untagged.
it also seems odd that Loki would be able to experience things while Silvie was asleep and also that moment where he gets tossed out and we focus on Silvie for a moment before she jumps out too. It focuses on a character who is not the center of the projection meaning it’s just there to throw off the audience and therefore cheating.
apart from that awesome theory I also question how a variant like Silvie can exist at all if the TVA prunes any split timeline within hours of it diverting. If Odin did adopt a human instead it would mean a few hours later the tva would remove that moment from history. She’s never get old enough to be Silvie.
I like this theory a lot. There are a few questions raised here though as I don’t feel that Silvie has the memory knowledge of so much of the planet without a proper explanation. And if she does such as the train then they would likely run into a past version of silvie here since this is all part of the sacred timeline.
it also seems odd that Loki would be able to experience things while Silvie was asleep and also that moment where he gets tossed out and we focus on Silvie for a moment before she jumps out too. It focuses on a character who is not the center of the projection meaning it’s just there to throw off the audience and therefore cheating.
apart from that awesome theory I also question how a variant like Silvie can exist at all if the TVA prunes any split timeline within hours of it diverting. If Odin did adopt a human instead it would mean a few hours later the tva would remove that moment from history. She’s never get old enough to be Silvie.