Grades so bad, you have to kill your hamster.
- Thread starter GasBandit
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at you Dave.
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Reboneer
How the hell does bludgeoning a hamster with a hammer not count as animal cruelty?
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crono1224
It is still a animal though, and at minimum, what makes a dog better, i'de say emotional attachment to said animal would define the importance of it. Some people hate dogs, and yet if you bludgeoned a dog it would be animal cruelty
Dave
Staff member
It is still a animal though, and at minimum, what makes a dog better, i'de say emotional attachment to said animal would define the importance of it. Some people hate dogs, and yet if you bludgeoned a dog it would be animal cruelty[/QUOTE]
At what level does it change from animal cruelty to ridicule of PETA-like extremism?
What if it had been a fish? Or a pet mouse? Or a snake? What if you were really attached to a pet ant farm? I'd be interested to see if the level of cruelty is stated in the law or if this is open-ended.
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crono1224
It is still a animal though, and at minimum, what makes a dog better, i'de say emotional attachment to said animal would define the importance of it. Some people hate dogs, and yet if you bludgeoned a dog it would be animal cruelty[/QUOTE]
At what level does it change from animal cruelty to ridicule of PETA-like extremism?
What if it had been a fish? Or a pet mouse? Or a snake? What if you were really attached to a pet ant farm? I'd be interested to see if the level of cruelty is stated in the law or if this is open-ended.[/QUOTE]
Ants aren't animals so???? I would say emotional attachment would factor into the discretion used to decide to prosecute for these charges.
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Chazwozel
It is still a animal though, and at minimum, what makes a dog better, i'de say emotional attachment to said animal would define the importance of it. Some people hate dogs, and yet if you bludgeoned a dog it would be animal cruelty[/QUOTE]
At what level does it change from animal cruelty to ridicule of PETA-like extremism?
What if it had been a fish? Or a pet mouse? Or a snake? What if you were really attached to a pet ant farm? I'd be interested to see if the level of cruelty is stated in the law or if this is open-ended.[/QUOTE]
Ants aren't animals so???? I would say emotional attachment would factor into the discretion used to decide to prosecute for these charges.[/QUOTE]
What the fuck are they then? Plants? They don't feel, feelings though. So yeah...
Fish don't really feel fear. They function of impulse, stimuli, and instinct. Same with reptiles. When you start getting into the wacky wild world of mammals though, it becomes fear. I'm pretty sure that the law protects fish and reptiles too.
I wonder if I would have been charged for animal cruelty that one time I stuck dynamite up a bullfrogs ass...
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crono1224
It is still a animal though, and at minimum, what makes a dog better, i'de say emotional attachment to said animal would define the importance of it. Some people hate dogs, and yet if you bludgeoned a dog it would be animal cruelty[/QUOTE]
At what level does it change from animal cruelty to ridicule of PETA-like extremism?
What if it had been a fish? Or a pet mouse? Or a snake? What if you were really attached to a pet ant farm? I'd be interested to see if the level of cruelty is stated in the law or if this is open-ended.[/QUOTE]
Ants aren't animals so???? I would say emotional attachment would factor into the discretion used to decide to prosecute for these charges.[/QUOTE]
What the fuck are they then? Plants?[/QUOTE]
Bah I am dumb, I am trying to respond to two diff forums and I done messed up.
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Chazwozel
I'd be a cool parent and make him swallow the goldfish live.
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crono1224
Some people would even consider running over a cat with a car and not stopping animal cruelty, now I think that's probably my limit
Some people torture cats for fun. I'd consider that animal cruelty, but hey, that's me.
Thing is Dave, it's not "animal death", it's "animal cruelty." You take your dog to be put to sleep, it's not animal cruelty. You leave it out in the winter in a cage with no food while you're on vacation, it's animal cruelty.
Thing is Dave, it's not "animal death", it's "animal cruelty." You take your dog to be put to sleep, it's not animal cruelty. You leave it out in the winter in a cage with no food while you're on vacation, it's animal cruelty.
Dave
Staff member
Killing a hamster with a hammer is probably one of the more humane ways of killing it.
I'm not saying it wasn't sadistic, mean and downright evil, I just think that the animal abuse is dumb and should be dropped in lieu of really ramping up the angle of child abuse. This woman does not deserve to have kids.
I'm not saying it wasn't sadistic, mean and downright evil, I just think that the animal abuse is dumb and should be dropped in lieu of really ramping up the angle of child abuse. This woman does not deserve to have kids.
I've never heard of that happening in prosecution, dropping smaller charges for a larger one, because there's no charge limit. They can have the big and the small. They usually throw everything at the defendant, unless there's a plea deal, and then bigger charges are dropped. I don't see what the prosecution has to gain by pressing fewer charges.
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makare
So there is like a scale thing? If we add in animal cruelty they have to take away from the child abuse? what?
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Chazwozel
I gotta agree with marake on this one. There's no balance on charges. I don't see why she can't be prosecuted to the max for child abuse and in addition for animal cruelty. Whether killing a hamster with a hammer is considered cruel or not, it's not behavior that should be allowed. I don't think the focus of the case is going to animal abuse though.
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Shadazz
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GasBandit
Staff member
Except when said hammer is being wielded by a child. Not the most dexterous or strong, sometimes.
Dave
Staff member
Except when said hammer is being wielded by a child. Not the most dexterous or strong, sometimes.[/QUOTE]
Excellent point. Although when I was 12 I was pretty good at killing things like toads or mice. Chickens don't count because that was done for food and it was fun watching them run around.
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makare
Except when said hammer is being wielded by a child. Not the most dexterous or strong, sometimes.[/QUOTE]
Excellent point. Although when I was 12 I was pretty good at killing things like toads or mice. Chickens don't count because that was done for food and it was fun watching them run around.[/QUOTE]
Aw Dave you killed toads..... so mean.
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makare
I just don't like you at all.
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Rubicon
I'm no PETA fan, I mean I eat meat, I have pets, etc but.. thats just brutally cruel to a hamster. It's a sentient being, it has a mind, a personality, to just kill it? No animal is "disposable" especially when it comes to pets. I will never condone any kind of violence like this towards an animal. (this doesn't count for stuff we eat, I can't live on veggies).
She's going to a special hell. Reserved for child molesters and people who talk at the theater.
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Chazwozel
I was going to say the same thing...
Hamsters aren't self-aware. They eat, sleep, poop, and make little hamsters.
I guess in terms of feeling pleasure and pain, yes, hamsters are sentient beings...
Dave
Staff member
No, see, THIS is where the line is drawn. Hamsters are NOT sentient, even if the little bastards feel pain and have pronounced nervous systems. Sentience is a measure of being self-aware. Just because some bleeding heart douchebags have taken the word over and tried to use it to further their own bullshit agenda does not make it so. Animals are NOT sentient, no matter what PETA tries to make you think. Your little kitty or puppy might have bonded with you but it's not because he loves you or hates you, it's because you fit some predetermined part of their nature like pack leader, chew toy or whatever.
Stop anthropomorphizing Fluffy. They are not kids, they are not people. If you died and couldn't set out the kibbles, they would EAT YOU!
Stop anthropomorphizing Fluffy. They are not kids, they are not people. If you died and couldn't set out the kibbles, they would EAT YOU!
People do that too.
Dave
Staff member
People do that too.[/QUOTE]
Very, very rarely. With animals it's nearly every time. Plus, people are thinking creatures who figure out how to get their own kibbles or call for help. Animals can't do that because they are NOT people and are NOT sentient.
fade
Staff member
Sheesh Dave. Normally you and I agree, but I can't stand by this at all.
GasBandit
Staff member
To be self aware you have to be capable of abstract thought, not just emotionality or even intelligence. An animal can be self-unaware and still not be a "meat machine," so to speak. Dogs feel sorrow, regret, joy, loneliness, anger and amusement, but they aren't self aware.
Mav though might be using a different dictionary term of sentient, as there is a definition of sentient that only means "able to feel," thus if it has complex emotions it is sentient. But that's not the definition we're talking about here.
Oh, and there are even some humans who cannibalize without emergent need... IE, it's not "eat people or starve," it's "eat people to absorb their power." But this is all irrelevant... the determination of self awareness comes from the ability to separate the mind from the thought. Most animals don't question their own thoughts.
However, SOME animals have been shown to be self-aware, apparently (if this wikipedia entry is to be believed... it has references at any rate) - apparently dolphins, some apes, elephants, and even magpies have passed the sentience test.
Mav though might be using a different dictionary term of sentient, as there is a definition of sentient that only means "able to feel," thus if it has complex emotions it is sentient. But that's not the definition we're talking about here.
Oh, and there are even some humans who cannibalize without emergent need... IE, it's not "eat people or starve," it's "eat people to absorb their power." But this is all irrelevant... the determination of self awareness comes from the ability to separate the mind from the thought. Most animals don't question their own thoughts.
However, SOME animals have been shown to be self-aware, apparently (if this wikipedia entry is to be believed... it has references at any rate) - apparently dolphins, some apes, elephants, and even magpies have passed the sentience test.
People do that too.[/QUOTE]
Very, very rarely. With animals it's nearly every time. Plus, people are thinking creatures who figure out how to get their own kibbles or call for help. Animals can't do that because they are NOT people and are NOT sentient.[/QUOTE]
I know, just messin with you.
Problem with animal cruelty is it's based more on human emotion than animal suffering. Animals that we form more of a bond with will be considered for animal cruelty before animals we don't, so it's pretty subjective.
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