So there's this Occupy Wall Street protest in Manhattan today
- Thread starter Charlie Don't Surf
- Start date
One article pointed out that the protesters have not been able to keep the area safe (ie, inadequate sanitation, fire hazards, etc) and since the city is responsible for safety in that park, and their only plans right now are for normal usage levels, then they have to clear out the park to normal usage levels so their current safety plans are sufficient.
Of course, that is merely the convenient excuse, because if the occupy movement had brought in its own porta potties, made adequate rules for fires and kept lanes clear for emergency use then the city would have found some other convenient excuse.
Of course, that is merely the convenient excuse, because if the occupy movement had brought in its own porta potties, made adequate rules for fires and kept lanes clear for emergency use then the city would have found some other convenient excuse.
Basically, the Parks and Services people denied them a permit extension for no reason. The OWS people refused to leave because they felt their rights were being violated. So the Mayor (facing a recall petition because of her inability to be tough on crime, which is a serious issue in Oakland) sent out an excessive show of force to appease the people trying to get her pulled. When the cops showed the OWS group resisted, giving the Police the reason they needed for a good ol' fashioned hippie beatdown.
The aftermath? Two ruined parks, mainly because the police went and tore everything down, and a lot of hurt people. It's also likely to bolster the efforts of OWS.
The police damaged the grass and park fixtures? I'd have guessed that the overuse by the occupiers for two weeks would have done more damage than the hour of police arrests.
I suppose we'll see pictures soon enough - it's getting to be daylight there.
No, I mean the parks are IN ruins because the place demolished all the tents and the wooden buildings the protestors made to dispense food, water, and medicine. That stuff would have been packed up when the OWS left, but now it's just trash for the parks people to clean up.
Ha. That's funny. There was never a plan on their part to leave. They were going to occupy the park indefinitely. They had no list of demands that, once fulfilled, they would clean up, replace the sod they destroyed, and leave.
You think people would leave their own camping equipment behind? You know... stuff they payed for?
I get what your saying but eventually they would have left. There was no way those people were gonna live out there in the winter... and that's especially true in NYC, where they get stupid amounts of snow.
For the Bonus March it was a Calvary Charge.
Like a NICE day on public transit in Oakland.
There was no orgy of violence on the level you're describing. Local news cameras caught one protester shot with a beanbag, but only after he threw a glass bottle at police. The reports are showing that the vast majority of protesters are being led away in plastic cuffs with no incident.
The city had major concerns about the health of the site. The protesters were refusing to clean up the area. They were having problems of violence within the camp, public urination and defecation, and a healthy mob of rats had moved into the area. These folks were warned they needed to clean up, and did nothing. They were then warned on loudspeaker that they would be arrested an hour before the raid; some people left, most stayed. I don't give a shit what morons on twitter are claiming. This was not the evil beatdown that you want it to be.
The city had major concerns about the health of the site. The protesters were refusing to clean up the area. They were having problems of violence within the camp, public urination and defecation, and a healthy mob of rats had moved into the area. These folks were warned they needed to clean up, and did nothing. They were then warned on loudspeaker that they would be arrested an hour before the raid; some people left, most stayed. I don't give a shit what morons on twitter are claiming. This was not the evil beatdown that you want it to be.
Lovely. Stay classy folks.
Update: Protesters met in downtown Oakland and generally acted like a mob for a while. Police have been yelling at them over loudspeakers to go home and tossing a few tear gas canisters to encourage them to disperse. Most are still there, and the police look like they're just waiting for the protesters to get bored/hungry/tired.
The news showed how the city had to call in a small army of workers to clean up. Crews of three carrying pressure washers went through the park and fountain, removing the piles of crap that the protesters left behind. Other workers had to pick up hundreds of pounds of trash and junk. The final tally for crimes reported in the protester camp included one alleged rape, three alleged assaults, and numerous thefts. This was all done before the police cleared out the park this morning.
I'm disappointed. I heard the Occupy Wall Street folks cleaned up after themselves (for the most part) and have been behaving well (for the most part) in an attempt to stave off criticism. The jackasses here in Oakland were literally shitting all over the place and acting like animals. I'm actually amazed the police have been going as easy as they have so far.
The news showed how the city had to call in a small army of workers to clean up. Crews of three carrying pressure washers went through the park and fountain, removing the piles of crap that the protesters left behind. Other workers had to pick up hundreds of pounds of trash and junk. The final tally for crimes reported in the protester camp included one alleged rape, three alleged assaults, and numerous thefts. This was all done before the police cleared out the park this morning.
I'm disappointed. I heard the Occupy Wall Street folks cleaned up after themselves (for the most part) and have been behaving well (for the most part) in an attempt to stave off criticism. The jackasses here in Oakland were literally shitting all over the place and acting like animals. I'm actually amazed the police have been going as easy as they have so far.
Ash, I am honestly curious as to what you consider to be violent acts... There does not appear to be baton strikes... there does not appear to be fighting... the only chemical munitions were CS grenades... no stingball grenades, no shieldwalls, no hoses... those that resisted were reacted to, and everyone was informed well in advance to pack their trash and get out.
I apologize, but from what I was reading over Twitter it sounded like the Police immediately escalated to full on 60's hippie-beatdown violence once the time was up. Considering Twitter was such a good source for the Arab Spring stuff, I was ready to accept it at face value. Seeing as that's apparently not the case this time around, I retract my concerns.
Necronic
Staff member
In fairness (meaning I don't begrudge the cops in this situation), I would consider CS grenades violence. I would rather get punched than get exposed to that stuff.
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/violent
vi·o·lent [vahy-uh-luhnt]
adjective
1. acting with or characterized by uncontrolled, strong, rough force: a violent earthquake.
2. caused by injurious or destructive force: a violent death.
3. intense in force, effect, etc.; severe; extreme: violent pain; violent cold.
4. roughly or immoderately vehement or ardent: violent passions.
5. furious in impetuosity, energy, etc.: violent haste.
The actions taken were in proportion to the resistance the occupiers presented. I honestly don't think any of those definitions fit - it wasn't uncontrolled force, it wasn't injurious or destructive, it wasn't intense or extreme force or effect, and even #4 and #5 can't easily be applied as the eviction progressed slowly, steadily, and with a great deal of warning.
At best one might be able to subjectively claim that #3 applies with the argument that CS gas was excessive - but even then can it be considered severe, extreme, violent, or intense? Especially coupled with the advance warning?
On the other hand, one's connotation of the word may radically differ from the dictionary or common usage, and it will obviously be used regardless as propoganda.
vi·o·lent [vahy-uh-luhnt]
adjective
1. acting with or characterized by uncontrolled, strong, rough force: a violent earthquake.
2. caused by injurious or destructive force: a violent death.
3. intense in force, effect, etc.; severe; extreme: violent pain; violent cold.
4. roughly or immoderately vehement or ardent: violent passions.
5. furious in impetuosity, energy, etc.: violent haste.
The actions taken were in proportion to the resistance the occupiers presented. I honestly don't think any of those definitions fit - it wasn't uncontrolled force, it wasn't injurious or destructive, it wasn't intense or extreme force or effect, and even #4 and #5 can't easily be applied as the eviction progressed slowly, steadily, and with a great deal of warning.
At best one might be able to subjectively claim that #3 applies with the argument that CS gas was excessive - but even then can it be considered severe, extreme, violent, or intense? Especially coupled with the advance warning?
On the other hand, one's connotation of the word may radically differ from the dictionary or common usage, and it will obviously be used regardless as propoganda.
... Fuck you? Not sure how I'm supposed to respond.
Looks like we got video of the event.
Twitter is an unmoderated channel for people to say anything and everything. I'm chuckling that there are people who accept twitter posts at face value.
There are those who use it for propaganda, and worse there are those who want to seem part of a big event but are merely armchair speculators - only they present their speculation as though it is first hand information. "My friend told me that he saw a flash from a police shotgun during the eviction" becomes "Police are using rubber bullets. OMG WTF BBQ #occupyoaklandraid"
Sorting the real tweets from a reliable source on the ground from the chaff is difficult to do at best.
So yeah, I'm laughing at you due to your trust in twitter as an information source.
Interesting video. By the way, local news is reporting those larger explosions were protesters throwing firecrackers. Some of the protesters even confirmed it. The police said they never threw anything other than tear gas.
That's why I make sure to say "The police claim..." or whatever. I know there's plenty of opportunities for both sides to exaggerate or lie. The only thing I've seen for myself is the awful condition of the plaza after they removed the protesters.
Here's another video of that guy who got hurt... watch as a policemen throws a can of tear gas right into the middle of the crowd trying to help him.
Personally, I find people on twitter more trustworthy than most police spokespersons.
Nah, it's because Police are bought and sold by corporations and the 1% and they have a vested interest in protecting the system against which OWS is protesting.
