F**K YOU! LANCE!

[strawman]

Every competition has rules and boundaries.

If you allow any sort of doping you essentially remove any boundaries, because there will always be some better drug, some better blood technique, etc.

The playing field will never be level.

The rules serve only to make it so that you can actually test yourself against another person. Not your doping methods against another teams doping methods.

And yes, doping only gets that last few percent of performance, and only matters at the very high end, but isn't the point of the competition to push everyone to the wall, and see who has that last little bit left to pull out a win?

Training, strategy, teamwork in the case of team sports, etc make vastly more difference than doping, but those are largely "solved" and everyone is really just competing for that last little bit.

 

[Silent Bob]

I'm honestly thinking that people don't really know what blood doping is. All it does is increase the amount of blood cells in your body, allowing faster distribution of oxygen through the body. The results would be negligible for the average shmoe, it still requires extreme amounts of training and talent to achieve what Lance Armstrong did. The only reason it has any appreciable difference for high functioning athletes is because their margin of difference is so small. Prior to the discovery of EPO, the same effects were achieved through blood transfusions of the athlete's own blood with no drugs involved whatsoever.

Blood transfusions were considered cheating before EPO's. And EPO's involve injecting growth hormone to achieve said results. That's cheating too.

 

[Jay]

*Lance begins to cry. Oprah leans in*

I think what you need Lance is a....performance enhancing hug

 

[Charlie Don't Surf]

let's get back on topic -Lance Armstrong is an utter scumbag.

 

[Azurephoenix]

let's get back on topic -Lance Armstrong is an utter scumbag.

You forgot giant lying hypocrite too.

 

[strawman]

Lance just wants to earn a living like everyone else, so he's coming "clean" to reduce his sentence so he can make money performing again.

Well that's all well and good, but if he were an accountant and embezzled hundreds of millions of dollars from his clients and supporters, should he be given another accounting position just because he came "clean" about it?

The USADA should not reduce his ban. Let him compete in unsanctioned events, if he likes.

 

[Charlie Don't Surf]

please darkaudit, go on with why you disagree that Lance Armstrong is a bad person

 

[sixpackshaker]

He's raised millions of dollars for cancer research. And his success helped me climb out of a dark place.

 

[Charlie Don't Surf]

http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/more-sports/zone-lance-armstrong-bully-downfall-article-1.1188512

 

[ThatGrinningIdiot!]

He's raised millions of dollars for cancer research. And his success helped me climb out of a dark place.

Since his legacy was foundered on lies and bullshit, I could say his illusion tricked you into finding the strength to allow you to climb out of the dark place yourself.

This sounds like innuendo. . . . -_-

 

[strawman]

So, do any of you want to contribute an open letter to Lance? For grins and giggles I've created http://dearlance.com and am planning on posting people's open letters to Lance (or the USADA, or anyone else associated with the Lance Armstrong doping saga).

I'd be very pleased if there were a wide variety of letters - positive, negative, apathetic, etc.

I'm still creating the website, so there's nothing of interest there yet, but of course I need some letters to prime the site with.

Anyone game?

 

[Bubble181]

Not right at the moment...

But anyway: I don't think it's a witch hunt. I don't think we're singling out one athlete. When Contador got tested postivie, his titles were stripped, he was publicly shamed. Same for every other big name who was caught. Whole teams were thrown out of the Tour de France! Armstrong always played the white knight, the Disney hero who made it clean. He didn't exactly shy away from calling others out and humiliating/calling for heavy penalties. For him to be found guilty does get an extra mention because of that.
Also, I think you're underestimating how much of this you're hearing compared to many others, simply because you're American and so is he. Cycling isn't exactly the biggest sport in the US - I doubt many of the others being found out caused much of a stir in US sports media. Museeuw or Bruyneels got at least as much flak as Armstrong over here. The decision not to name new winners wasn't brought on by vengefulness (because in many other years the official winner is someone who actually ame 2nd or 3rd at the time), more because it's been a while and it would be difficult to recover the monetary prizes - Armostong's used most of them in his cancer organisation. Recouping them and giving them to the "new" winners would be too difficult, and they didn't want to give the title without the money. Official reason, that.

 

[Silent Bob]

He's raised millions of dollars for cancer research. And his success helped me climb out of a dark place.

No. Livestrong contributes NOTHING to research. It's a good program, but it's soul purpose is to promote support to those who have cancer.

 

[sixpackshaker]

No. Livestrong contributes NOTHING to research. It's a good program, but it's soul purpose is to promote support to those who have cancer.

Still strikes close to home, since I had the same but less serious cancer that he did.

 

[SpecialKO]

Athletes should just do what MMA fighters do, use steroids excessively in the dark ages of your sport before testing was widely available until your testosterone production is that of someone with hypogonadism. THEN, you get a physician to prescribe testosterone injections so that your T levels are those of a teenager. THEN, you get a medical exemption from your athletic commission (inexplicably). Suddenly, you go from a guy who's nickname for years was Decision Dan Henderson (I'm done pussyfooting around who I was talking about) to a guy who's right hand, in his mid 40's, is suddenly knocking people cold left right and center.

This actually really irritates me about TRT in MMA. I get that there is research showing that repeated blows to the head might affect your body's ability to produce testosterone. But there's a shitload more research showing that steroids and testosterone injections do that as well. And when you come in with a T:E ratio of 17-fucking-1 (you know who I'm talking about, Frank), claiming you need TRT to live and keep competing is fucking horseshit. Or say, claiming that you need TRT, then mysteriously getting better (hint: old men on TRT never come off of it).

And let's just say, just for the moment, that you genuinely need TRT at 40. Then don't compete. You're done. Because everything you're accomplishing at that point is because of the TRT, not you.

 

[PatrThom]

I'm pretty sure that the main objection everyone has is that we want/expect every sporting event to be an honorable contest of training and skill, but instead there are others treating it as a contest of how much they can get away with without getting caught, which should really be two separate contests.

Y'know, it occurs to me we pretty much had the exact same discussion over in the stock market thread. It wasn't about sports, but it was about gaming the system.

--Patrick

 

[Gusto]

Can't wait until his inevitable tell-all book release due sometime this summer.

 

[Calleja]

So, did you guys see the interview?

The guy is a cheat, a liar and a bully in my book. He SUED and ruined the public image of people he knew WERE TELLING THE TRUTH. Fuck that oneballed liar.

 

[sixpackshaker]

Feel free to attack someone for the deeds that they have done, but to insult him because he got sick should not be done.

 

[Calleja]

I don't insult him because he got sick, I insult him because he's a fucking liar. "Oneballed" just happens to be a fact.

 

[strawman]

Feel free to attack someone for the deeds that they have done, but to insult him because he got sick should not be done.

It's quite possible that he became sick due to his use of steroids, nevermind all the other junk he put in his system.

 

[Shakey]

I don't insult him because he got sick, I insult him because he's a fucking liar. "Oneballed" just happens to be a fact.

You're using it as an insult though. Not cool.

 

[sixpackshaker]

It's quite possible that he became sick due to his use of steroids, nevermind all the other junk he put in his system.

Most likely just time in the saddle. Heat and physical damage from bicycle seats has some connection to testicular cancer. I used to ride a bit. So my one healthy habit likely caused my cancer.

 

[Calleja]

You're using it as an insult though. Not cool.

More like a colorful adjective, I don't really think anyone believes Armstrong is anything less cause of the one-ballness. I'd also use stuff like "fat" or "ugly" or "bald" or whatever if it were applicable. Would that be unfair? Probably, but it's just the way people talk, you don't have to be so sensitive about it.

 

[strawman]

Most likely just time in the saddle. Heat and physical damage from bicycle seats has some connection to testicular cancer. I used to ride a bit. So my one healthy habit likely caused my cancer.

Now I'm curious what the rates of cancer are for each activity. I'd have thought the correlation between steroid use and cancer would be higher than the correlation between cycling and cancer, but perhaps I should be glad I didn't pursue ultra marathon cycling as much as I might have.

 

[sixpackshaker]

Most likely just time in the saddle. Heat and physical damage from bicycle seats has some connection to testicular cancer. I used to ride a bit. So my one healthy habit likely caused my cancer.

Chiding myself for correlation is not causation.

 

[Silent Bob]

sixpack, don't defend Lance. I used to be a huge Lance fan. Everything he did for the sport, cancer, physical fitness. It's all lies. It hurts, but he's a cheat.

 

[Shakey]

Didn't look like he was defending him to me.

 

[Bowielee]

How is what Lance Armstrong did for cancer research null and void because he cheated at a sport? That's just crazy talk. I know you're upset that one of your personal heroes turned out to be a cheating douchebag, but it's just plain denial to believe that the good he did for cancer is simply null and void because of it.

 

[Calleja]

Livestrong hasn't really done much for cancer research, they even stopped accepting donations for it according to wikipedia, it was more of a cancer awareness thing. Which is fine, except that the awareness that used to come from an incredible athlete surviving cancer, coming back and doing something uncanny is now forever tarnished, cause it wasn't really that uncanny, and they guy was a liar. Part of a whole doping ring mafia thing.

It's almost like having Bernie Madoff as your spokeperson.

 

[Bowielee]

The awareness is still there, though. Nothing can change that. The proverbial genie is already out of the bottle. As I've stated multiple times, I fully understand WHY people are pissed off. I'm just not sure that you can say that every good thing he's ever accomplished is automatically wiped out by this.

 

[PatrThom]

I'm just not sure that you can say that every good thing he's ever accomplished is automatically wiped out by this.

Because when you hold someone up to be a Hero so much that you voluntarily spread their word to others, having that Hero suddenly admit to non-heroic behavior can feel like...

The same applies to someone you used to love but they they cheat on you or something. All the passion and motivation is still there, providing the same amount of energy, but the flow gets reversed, so super-love becomes super-hate until the flow finally dies down again.

--Patrick

 

[Calleja]

The awareness is still there, though. Nothing can change that. The proverbial genie is already out of the bottle. As I've stated multiple times, I fully understand WHY people are pissed off. I'm just not sure that you can say that every good thing he's ever accomplished is automatically wiped out by this.

Did cancer really need awareness, though? I mean... after learning about the whole Pink Ribbon Breast Cancer scam thing, I'm a little weary of "charities" of the sort... and LIVESTRONG's main goal is "cancer awareness", but.. I mean... isn't EVERYONE already very, very aware of cancer? If the money isn't going for actual research AGAINST it, what has Armstrong really accomplished besides putting a famous face to an affliction that didn't really need one, unlike Parkinson's and Michael J Fox?

 

[Shakey]

Yes, it did. When he first showed up there was still a big stigma related to testicular cancer, and male cancer all together. He founded it in 1997, not 2 years ago. Many men at that time would rather not know then to have to face losing one of their balls. He basically showed everyone the idea that you were no longer a man after that was bull shit. Which also led towards greater awareness of prostate cancer. He provided a lot of inspiration towards a lot of people.

Maybe it doesn't need a famous face now, but it did when he first started it. That doesn't excuse what he did, but it doesn't mean it doesn't mean anything anymore.

 

[Cajungal]

I hate hearing this news. When I see what athletes can do, I'm amazed. As one of the least athletic people ever, I have a lot of respect for people who push the limits of what a human can do. When I hear they've brought drugs and corner-cutting procedures into the mix, all I can think is "...weenie." Let's just have 2 sections for each sport--the people who have integrity and discipline... and the weenies. Maybe that's too black and white, and maybe those people accomplished a lot before they started, but that's what happens, I guess.