[TV] FOX's Gotham coming soon.
- Thread starter sixpackshaker
- Start date
You don't know of the epic screwjob that Stan Lee and Marvel gave to Jack Kirby? It's basically a wonder that he even still gets credited.
Yeah, Jack got NOTHING for basically co-creating the Marvel universe as we know it with Stan Lee. It's not all Lee's fault. It was the corporate higher-ups who, like the fans, only saw Smilin' Stan's face and name on everything. Jack Kirby wasn't a people person, since he spent all his time at the drawing board. He had an insane work-rate, like when he was working at DC and writing/drawing THREE comics a month (about 66+ pages of art every month).
But Jack told a story once where he asked about getting some more recognition - and money - from Marvel for all the characters he created. The corporate bigwigs basically said, "No. Stan has all the ideas. You guys just draw them." Which was so very, very wrong. Especially with Stan's (and Marvel's) method of writing: plot out the bare basics with the artist, the artist goes and draws the whole comic, then Stan does the dialogue and narration. One could strongly argue that the artists did more of the work than Stan, yet he's the household name while Jack Kirby struggled financially for most of his life.
And since we're in a Batman-related thread, Bill Finger should be mentioned. He got screwed so badly by Bob Kane (blatantly in this case, unlike Stan Lee) that he's not even MENTIONED as a co-creator by DC.
http://www.bleedingcool.com/2014/07/15/a-new-possible-joker-in-every-episode-of-gotham/
In another episode of "Let's Judge the Fuck Out of This Show Before it Airs Because Reasons," (or LJFOTSBIABR as the fans call it) we find our intrepid heroes believing that teasing a different Joker in EVERY single episode is guaranteed to get old very fast.
(Not to mention that, out of all of Batman's villains, Joker created himself to directly oppose Batman or because of Batman's presence in the city.)
In another episode of "Let's Judge the Fuck Out of This Show Before it Airs Because Reasons," (or LJFOTSBIABR as the fans call it) we find our intrepid heroes believing that teasing a different Joker in EVERY single episode is guaranteed to get old very fast.
(Not to mention that, out of all of Batman's villains, Joker created himself to directly oppose Batman or because of Batman's presence in the city.)
Well that sounds stupid. The reality is, as much as the show is supposed to be about "Gotham" it's really going to be just Batman without Batman. They aren't even bothering to pretend it's anything other than that at this point.[DOUBLEPOST=1405445454,1405445427][/DOUBLEPOST]Keep in mind: That doesn't mean it might not be a good show. Who knows? But it sounds silly.
Is that like "Garfield Minus Garfield"? Because there are a few Batman comics I think would be oddly entertaining with Bats 'shopped out.
Sadly no. Because it will be referencing him constantly with teen Bruce Wayne and his rogues gallery. So my guess is it will always seem "off", like they wanted to do a Batman show but weren't allowed by DC.
figmentPez
Staff member
"You don't want to miss an episode because you might miss the first appearance of the Joker."
No. Screw you Gotham.
That trailer had so much ham in it I think I may die of a heart attack from sodium overdose.
"What made The Riddler? What made Scarecrow? What made Joker?"
BATMAN, you fucking morons. BATMAN made them.
BATMAN, you fucking morons. BATMAN made them.
Now I want to watch the Two-Face origin episodes from Batman: TAS.
"Why couldn't you save us, son?"
Damn did that show get Batman.
And there in lies my biggest problem with the conceit of this show. First there was Batman.... then all the freaks came out. They are a response to the Threat Batman poses to normal criminals.....you know... the ones that a regular cop like Gordon would be after.
Instead of fledgling Batman villains it should have been the various crime families and industrialists that are the backdrop of Bats early career; the Falcone's, the Dagget's, the Zucco's and such. Then show Jim Gordon rising to deal with it but constantly coming up against barriers. Really show why even a good cop like him can't get the job done and Gotham needs the Batman.
While I would love to watch Donal Logue in action (and he is honestly the only draw for me at this point)... I know too much about the Batverse for me to be able to enjoy it so I am going to pass.
It's funny how in this thread people have suggested multiple ways of making this kind of show work, and it will do none of them.
Maybe that's why this doesn't look so bad to me. I'm not as familiar with Batman's history and background
I think we have a post that covers that... gimme a second.[DOUBLEPOST=1406815943,1406815836][/DOUBLEPOST]FOUND IT:
Eh, I don't think that applies as well to this situation. There is plenty of good Batman out there to watch besides this.
But keep trying, Espy. Keep submitting to the man.
Because ham (and other processed meats) have a large amount of sodium (and nitrates) in them; sometimes both (NaNO3). And, as we all know excess sodium can lead to hypertension, which can lead the heart attacking your body.
You know, even post crisis, that's not really true... Batman is the reason why they started playing dress up and adopting funny names, but the conceit was always that they where all already crazy in their own unique ways.
Joker's the only one you can tie directly to Bats, and he was already the Red Hood (intentionally or not) before falling into a bunch of chemicals that gave him his look.
So watched the first episode. It's not terrible, but it's not very good, either. The cop-related stuff was pretty good and I actually like a lot of the cop characters like Gordon, Bullock, Montoya, and Allen.
The show really falters when it starts doing cutsey nods and references to villains and such.
"Enough with the riddles, Nygma."
"Don't call me Penguin!"
(Future Poison Ivy in front of a plant)
"It's at 14th and Grundy."
Ugh. It was just annoying and felt shoe-horned in when they already had some good things going for the show. I imagine it's only going to get worse from here as far as that goes.
Still, I don't know. I didn't hate it enough to stop watching. So I'll give it a few more episodes.
The show really falters when it starts doing cutsey nods and references to villains and such.
"Enough with the riddles, Nygma."
"Don't call me Penguin!"
(Future Poison Ivy in front of a plant)
"It's at 14th and Grundy."
Ugh. It was just annoying and felt shoe-horned in when they already had some good things going for the show. I imagine it's only going to get worse from here as far as that goes.
Still, I don't know. I didn't hate it enough to stop watching. So I'll give it a few more episodes.
I had a similar feel. It's not as terrible as I was expecting, but it wasn't that good either. I will say that I dug Donal Logue as Harvey Bullock.
That said, this just reminds me of my earlier opinion that we should have gotten a Gotham Central-type series instead of showing us Gordon's early days with early versions of Bruce Wayne and Batman's villains all crowbarred in.
I think they just revealed too much about Bullock in this episode. A character this blatantly crooked could not survive on the force, even one as bad as GCPD.
Or even Gotham Central, where it's clear that most of the force is still on the take, including Harvey I believe.
Actually, I don't think Harvey's as crooked as we saw. Yeah, he's knee deep in crooked things, but I think he does it just to survive as a cop. He's not like Flass was in Batman Begins, who was a total dickhead and out to make money, too. It seems like it's just a life in the city he's grown to accept. Ditto for Montoya and Allen's need to be media celebrities. They're not BAD cops, just self-centered. And I think in both cases, I think that's the point of Gordon. He's the bright light for all three to learn from and become better cops as a result. We already saw that a little with Harvey by the end of this episode.
Honestly, if they focus less on the villain stuff and more on the cops, I think it'll be a good show. I don't expect they will, but we'll see. The cop stuff was the best stuff so far.
Though that said, the people they got to play Nygma and Cobblepot were totally spot on. ESPECIALLY Cobblepot. Loved that maniacal glee he had from beating that guy in the alley.
Honestly, if they focus less on the villain stuff and more on the cops, I think it'll be a good show. I don't expect they will, but we'll see. The cop stuff was the best stuff so far.
Though that said, the people they got to play Nygma and Cobblepot were totally spot on. ESPECIALLY Cobblepot. Loved that maniacal glee he had from beating that guy in the alley.
I liked it. There was some goofy stuff like how apparently in Gotham a cop can lose his career because the man he shot in self defense was not guilty of the crime they were investigating when he ran and tried to stab a cop. I mean I can see them suffering a little bit from opening a case that everybody considered over and done with but not over a legitimate shooting.
Also the scene where Gordon offered to resign to Bruce Wayne was completely overdone. I know what they were trying to do keep Wayne in the swing of the show but that was completely unbelievable to me.
Beyond that show hit all of the right notes. Maybe they should have had fewer examples of future villians but I liked it.
Also the scene where Gordon offered to resign to Bruce Wayne was completely overdone. I know what they were trying to do keep Wayne in the swing of the show but that was completely unbelievable to me.
Beyond that show hit all of the right notes. Maybe they should have had fewer examples of future villians but I liked it.
The biggest problem with Gotham is that Jim Gordon can't win. He can't make any headway, he can't defeat the villains, and he can't cleanup Gotham. Why not? Because if he did, there would be no need for Batman. Batman arises as a direct response to the entrenched corruption and ineffectiveness of Gotham's law enforcement and judicial systems. Gangsters who operate with near impunity, a police force that is either on the take or intimidated into silence, requiring someone outside the law to take the fight to them - to break up their operations, disrupt their organizations, to give them something to be afraid of, to give the good people of Gotham a chance to go on with their lives. So if Jim Gordon is at all successful, he essentially negates the development of Batman. The result is basically going to be an urban crime drama of Gilligan's Island - despite the variety of situations, the overall arc never really progresses, because it can't.
I love this post. It's not like the Batman comic doesn't have a ton of non-supervillian characters to work with.
figmentPez
Staff member
I hated it enough to stop watching. Less than 3 minutes in* I started hating it. Gave it the rest of the episode to redeem itself, but it just kept digging itself deeper. By the half-hour mark I decided I won't be watching another episode.
*
Tweenage Catwoman watching as the Waynes are gunned down? Nope, done, bye.
Well that's ot true... he can win some, get some people in jail etc... and then they just get replaced by other people that are just as bad... drive home the message that Gotham isn't gonna be fixed by normal means...
