Get the sand out of your vag (Seinfeld says colleges too PC)
- Thread starter Mathias
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Yeah, why can't college campuses appreciate stuff like this:
I don't think Daniel Tosh was losing his shit when he asked if it'd be funny if a woman would be raped during his show, but it was certainly outside his source material.
My point with these is that Seinfeld has been doing this for long enough to know where to draw the line (unlike certain others) and how to get a feel for a crowd, unless he's been spending too much time on Tumblr and it's misshaping his view on how people are. I think he's being over-dramatic.
Dave
Staff member
Seinfeld's point, if you bothered to listen, is that it does not matter if you are even close to a line when doing comedy on a college campus these days because the students are hyper-sensitive and think everything is offensive. Comedy can be and frequently is offensive and that's perfectly fine. If you are offended, tough shit. There is a funny side to literally everything. That's a part of life. And Seinfeld is basically right. People are so needing to be offended that they throw out SJW terms like hard rock candy without giving a thought to what they mean or represent in the first place. They are so quick to jump on any perceived insult that people are getting fired for using the word "niggardly", or trying to start conversations on race.
Have things gotten better for minorities or LGBT? Yes and no. (No for minorities and I'd say yes for LGBT [if any of our LGBT people want to correct me if I'm wrong please do so]) But we have gone from the extreme where Disney had cartoons with "Indians" in them singing songs like, "What Makes the Red Man Red" to where people are overly sensitive about everything. The pendulum has swung from one extreme to the other.
"But," I hear you say, "what's so bad about that?" Well, it stifles creativity, for one. It takes pretty big balls like Louis CK to be able to weather the kinds of shit that gets flung around when you make a joke that's close to the line. You just can't give a shit, but SJW's are really, really good at briganding and swaying those who do not have said balls. So the brave get shouted down. Look at the current GamerGate bullshit. Legitimate concerns about the ethical implications of a give-n-take between game developers and game reporting has now gotten bogged down in the mire of recrimination and gleeful cries of sexism. It's all bullshit from the top down. The GamerGate people were right initially, but then instead of sticking to the facts, they dragged themselves into the muck right along with the screaming hoards of SJW morons who don't give two shits about ethics as long as their agenda is being pushed forcefully forward. And yes, both sides acted (and in some cases are still acting) abysmally.
So your point completely misses the message that Seinfeld was saying, which is that the line to cross on college campuses has moved so far away from reality that humor is no longer possible without crossing it and enraging a populace that feels so entitled that any affront to their delicate sensibilities is tantamount to all the other real injustices in the world happening to real people who are really and truly oppressed.
Have things gotten better for minorities or LGBT? Yes and no. (No for minorities and I'd say yes for LGBT [if any of our LGBT people want to correct me if I'm wrong please do so]) But we have gone from the extreme where Disney had cartoons with "Indians" in them singing songs like, "What Makes the Red Man Red" to where people are overly sensitive about everything. The pendulum has swung from one extreme to the other.
"But," I hear you say, "what's so bad about that?" Well, it stifles creativity, for one. It takes pretty big balls like Louis CK to be able to weather the kinds of shit that gets flung around when you make a joke that's close to the line. You just can't give a shit, but SJW's are really, really good at briganding and swaying those who do not have said balls. So the brave get shouted down. Look at the current GamerGate bullshit. Legitimate concerns about the ethical implications of a give-n-take between game developers and game reporting has now gotten bogged down in the mire of recrimination and gleeful cries of sexism. It's all bullshit from the top down. The GamerGate people were right initially, but then instead of sticking to the facts, they dragged themselves into the muck right along with the screaming hoards of SJW morons who don't give two shits about ethics as long as their agenda is being pushed forcefully forward. And yes, both sides acted (and in some cases are still acting) abysmally.
So your point completely misses the message that Seinfeld was saying, which is that the line to cross on college campuses has moved so far away from reality that humor is no longer possible without crossing it and enraging a populace that feels so entitled that any affront to their delicate sensibilities is tantamount to all the other real injustices in the world happening to real people who are really and truly oppressed.
That's what I said--I think he's being over-dramatic. You're saying it's too much of a shift to accept edgy comedy, but he's the one saying no, he won't do it. So, he doesn't have the balls, but it's someone else's fault?
It's too late at night to get into where you're right and wrong on the GamerGate thing, but in the end it was a trainwreck and IGN still stands on the curbside of the red light district waiting for EA, undeterred.
Few people tackled it as head-on as this guy:
...and that's a good portion of why he is revered.
NOTE: Do you see the title of that clip? If not, let me repeat it here: "George Carlin-rape CAN be funny"
Does this give you some idea what the clip might be about? That it could be NSFW (btw it is, and very much so)? If you click on that video, you now know EXACTLY what you are getting into, naughty language and controversy both, and while you may have every right to be offended, you have no right to complain about it. None.
1) You knew what you were getting into when you clicked it.
2) He's dead now, so you ain't gonna change his mind.
If you click it, you by definition have expressed your desire to listen to it. If you didn't want to hear it, then don't click the video. Go find something more PG- or PC-rated and watch/listen to that instead.
--Patrick
i won't get in the way of this thread worshiping probably the richest and most powerful comedian in america (the world?) punching down and making fun of the people with the least power
but most of what is being said ITT is incredibly gross. I like that Carlin bit but everything you just said @PatrThom (-patrick) is putrid and proves that you really don't understand anything about the subject
but most of what is being said ITT is incredibly gross. I like that Carlin bit but everything you just said @PatrThom (-patrick) is putrid and proves that you really don't understand anything about the subject
That's another thing--why does Seinfeld even care? He doesn't do colleges.
I mean, listen to the age he's complaining about. 14. Tumblr group age. That's not college age. I'm sure to old people he sounds wise, but he doesn't sound like he knows what he's talking about. He's acting like this really affects him, but it sounds more like an excuse to rant about something that pisses him off. Maybe instead he should have a talk with his daughter about what words mean. Then she can ignore him because she's 14, and get it later on without making a connection to anything he said ... because she's a teenager. What does he expect? This isn't difficult to comprehend.
You and I ... we have different opinions on the assertion as to who "gets it."
--Patrick
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Chris Rock Stopped Playing Colleges Because They're 'Too Conservative'
'Not in their political views -- not like they’re voting Republican -- but in their social views and their willingness not to offend anybody. Kids raised on a culture of “We’re not going to keep score in the game because we don’t want anybody to lose.” Or just ignoring race to a fault. You can’t say “the black kid over there.” No, it’s “the guy with the red shoes.” You can’t even be offensive on your way to being inoffensive.'
'Not in their political views -- not like they’re voting Republican -- but in their social views and their willingness not to offend anybody. Kids raised on a culture of “We’re not going to keep score in the game because we don’t want anybody to lose.” Or just ignoring race to a fault. You can’t say “the black kid over there.” No, it’s “the guy with the red shoes.” You can’t even be offensive on your way to being inoffensive.'
I would assume because it affects people he knows.
Also, just because the first specific example that came to mind (since it's from his daughter) comes from a kid who was 14 doesn't mean he hasn't experienced that from college aged kids as well. "Tumblr group age" doesn't end with high schoolers, it's most popular demographic is 18-29 year olds.
Let's say he was right ... what becomes the issue there?
A comedian's job is to make the audience laugh, not for the audience to form a culture that laughs at the comedian's jokes no matter what.
A comedian's job is to make the audience laugh, not for the audience to form a culture that laughs at the comedian's jokes no matter what.
Well, that depends, really. Is the comedian merely pandering to an audience, or is he trying to make art?
Dave
Staff member
It's art, but like all art it's totally subjective. And humor must be at least a little on the edge or it's just milquetoast and funny to a scant few. The problem is that to be successful you have to be as general as possible while being funny, which is incredibly difficult.
And the fact that Charlie has missed the entire point is, in fact, proving the point. The inability of those to see the other side and have a need to be offended is pretty standard.
And the fact that Charlie has missed the entire point is, in fact, proving the point. The inability of those to see the other side and have a need to be offended is pretty standard.
Dave
Staff member
And your experience in comedy is what again? And your comment added what to the conversation?
Ah, I see. When faced with experience in a topic - because Chris Rock, Seinfeld, etc. can't be trusted as experts - you instead troll and do your best to be offended. Well done.
this isn't a conversation, this is a stupid childish shit-flinging contest from post one.
and I don't TRY to be offended, when I'm talking in spaces without routine shitty stuff being said, I'm never offended, in fact it makes me wonder why I even bother, but whatever, here's a really shitty article everyone in this thread will agree with, so I'll add to y'alls discussion and actually leave the thread instead of just saying I will
http://www.vox.com/2015/6/3/8706323/college-professor-afraid
and I don't TRY to be offended, when I'm talking in spaces without routine shitty stuff being said, I'm never offended, in fact it makes me wonder why I even bother, but whatever, here's a really shitty article everyone in this thread will agree with, so I'll add to y'alls discussion and actually leave the thread instead of just saying I will
http://www.vox.com/2015/6/3/8706323/college-professor-afraid
hahahhahahahahahahhahahahahahahhahahahahahahahhahahahaha
@Charlie Don't Surf is just being a bossy, holier-than-thou gnat. He can't even stick to his own directives. He's a trolling fraud.
we ought to create more honeypot threads like this to suck charlie in and keep him out of the rest of the forum.
My bad...I forgot about about it being slang for deletable female partsDon't say honeypot.
Maybe I should have said "tar baby" instead...
The tar baby myth/story existed long before Disney, and has literally nothing to do with black people (thus the wiki link)...
Like a honeypot, it means a sticky situation that's difficult to get out of. And, like honeypot, it has a secondary meaning that would get Charlie's panties all up in a twist.
4 minutes later:
....*sigh* I really am one for sticking up for the weak or the bullied, and I love playing devil's advocate and defend points I don't agree with necessarily, but seriously, Charlie makes it hard...I mean, difficult, to take him seriously in any way.
To quote the Nostalgic Chick, Song of the South propagates the stereotype that black people are boring.
Because that movie is boring as shit.
Dave
Staff member
Yeah, but tarbaby has been really, REALLY appropriated. Still I get your point.
This can be applied all over the place and we already do that, often, with a lot of stuff. It's strange how some people demand we look at other cultures in our time period with a lot of cultural relativism and accept differences in opinion and in view, while not applying the same relativism to a Western culture from a different time period. Of course you can say "now we know better", and it's a good thing we've learned from past mistakes and don't think the same things are acceptable - up to a point. The over-PC-ing as shown by Charlie, for example, is something that we'll either come to accept as the new norm, or it'll be something else people from the future will look back on as a form of mental victorian puritanism. Or, more likely, both, at different points of time.
So has pussy.
To be fair, though, I thought you were originally using that term ironically, since the moment you mentioned the latin root, I immediately pictured you in a fedora.
I am going to say that I am sympathetic to Charlie (and his views) here. In no way is Seinfeld, Chris Rock, or anyone else who hasn't been directly involved in any immediate timeframe for an extended period of time to a college campus an "expert" on whether colleges have "become too PC". And in fact, Seinfeld states directly in the actual recorded interview in the OP that this is only something he's heard from other people, not experienced himself, as he doesn't do college campuses.
I would go so far as to say that the tolerance that an assortment of college students in a room have for certain comedians or jokes has basically nothing to do with whether a particular campus is "too pc" (unless it's a performing arts college). Rather, we should be looking at the students' reactions to content of the classes they are taking for learning purposes, the actual nominal reason that people go to colleges.
And in that way, it sounds like we have a bit of a problem.
The promotion of social justice is a good thing in my mind, at least as a concept. But what we're definitely seeing more of in the media (and apparently in colleges) is a version of social justice that equates "justice" with "not being offended" as opposed to the righting of actual wrongs. As if injustice doesn't exist if you can't hear about it. Micro-aggressions absolutely exist. But if you equate everything that makes you uncomfortable with an aggression against you, you've literally given up any agency you have in trying to tackle any problem on your own terms.
I would go so far as to say that the tolerance that an assortment of college students in a room have for certain comedians or jokes has basically nothing to do with whether a particular campus is "too pc" (unless it's a performing arts college). Rather, we should be looking at the students' reactions to content of the classes they are taking for learning purposes, the actual nominal reason that people go to colleges.
And in that way, it sounds like we have a bit of a problem.
The promotion of social justice is a good thing in my mind, at least as a concept. But what we're definitely seeing more of in the media (and apparently in colleges) is a version of social justice that equates "justice" with "not being offended" as opposed to the righting of actual wrongs. As if injustice doesn't exist if you can't hear about it. Micro-aggressions absolutely exist. But if you equate everything that makes you uncomfortable with an aggression against you, you've literally given up any agency you have in trying to tackle any problem on your own terms.
Dave
Staff member
Which is why I said I took his point.