So there's this Occupy Wall Street protest in Manhattan today

strawman

strawman

SpecialKO said:
Sending ... any people with specific medical needs or potential social/mental problems
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I'm only talking about people who are merely hungry and have no place to sleep. OWS is providing a both food and housing (limited in both areas - housing may merely be an assigned spot on the ground) for anyone who claims they want to protest. This is being funded by donations to the OWS movement. If you are merely hungry and tired, someone reasonable might say, "OWS is providing food and spots to sleep to protesters. If you join them, you may find your needs met in a limited fashion."

Please cite sources of information that show that police are sending people with acute medical needs or chronic and dangerous mental problems to OWS.
 
SpecialKO

SpecialKO

stienman said:
Please cite sources of information that show that police are sending people with acute medical needs or chronic and dangerous mental problems to OWS.
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Please cite your sources of information showing that police are vetting the people that you think they should be sending. There's a reason why you're specifically encouraged to not feed homeless people on the NYC subways but direct them to the nearest shelter or MTA official so they can direct them to nearest shelter.
 
Krisken

Krisken

It's shit like this that only instigates the situation.

Copypasta from Cookie Monster, a commenter at the A.V. Club
Yes, there always going to be rich and poor. But we used to live in country where rich owned factory and make 30 times what factory worker make. Now we live in country where rich make money by lying about value of derivative bonds and make 3000 times what factory worker would make if factories hadn't all moved to China.
Capitalism great system. We won Cold War because people behind Iron Curtain look over wall, and see how much more plentiful and delicious cookies are in West, and how we have choice of different bakeries, not just state-owned one. It great system. It got us out of Depression, won WWII, built middle class, built country's infrastructure from highways to Hoover Dam to Oreo factory to electrifying rural South. It system that reward hard work and fair play, and everyone do fair share and everyone benefit. Rich get richer, poor get richer, everyone happy. It great system.​
Then after Reagan, Republicans decide to make number one priority destroying that system. Now we have system where richest Americans ones who find ways to game system -- your friends on Wall Street -- and poorest Americans ones who thought working hard would get them American dream, when in fact it get them pink slip when job outsourced to 10-year-old in Mumbai slum. And corporations have more influence over government than people (or monsters).​
It not about rich people having more money. It about how they got money. It about how they take opportunity away from rest of us, for sake of having more money. It how they willing to take risks that destroy economy -- knowing full well that what could and would happen -- putting millions out of work, while creating nothing of value, and all the while crowing that they John Galt, creating wealth for everyone.​
That what the soul-searching about. When Liberals run country for 30 years following New Deal, American economy double in size, and wages double along with it. That fair. When Conservatives run country for 30 years following Reagan, American economy double again, and wages stay flat. What happen to our share of money? All of it go to richest 1%. That not "there always going to be rich people". That unfair system. That why we upset. That what Occupy Sesame Street about.​
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​

Indeed, my monster friend. Indeed.​
 
Tress

Tress

SpecialKO said:
Please cite your sources of information showing that police are vetting the people that you think they should be sending. There's a reason why you're specifically encouraged to not feed homeless people on the NYC subways but direct them to the nearest shelter or MTA official so they can direct them to nearest shelter.
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You made the original claim that the NYPD was funneling homeless with health and mental problems into the park. The onus is on you to provide evidence.
 
SpecialKO

SpecialKO

Tress said:
You made the original claim that the NYPD was funneling homeless with health and mental problems into the park. The onus is on you to provide evidence.
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Um, no I didn't. Steinman claimed that police should be sending homeless people to the park instead of shelters. That was the comment I originally objected to. I stayed out of it until then.

stienman said:
The police normally encourage homeless people to go to shelters, etc, right? Why shouldn't they point out to the homeless that a makeshift soup kitchen has also set up in the park? Why should the police remove them? If you were an officer, what would you tell a cold, hungry homeless person two blocks from OWS right now? How would you tell the difference between the homeless and the OWS? What would you do once you figured out that there's a homeless person in the OWS - move in by yourself and attempt to eject them from the park? What if the protestors filmed you and posted it online as an example of someone being unlawfully ejected from a "peaceful" protest?
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I pointed out that the police should not funneling homeless people into the park at all because a) the park by all the accounts I have seen thus far isn't set up for it, and b) homeless people in NYC can have a lot of health and mental problems that random park protesters are particularly ill-equipped to deal with, due to a) and due to generally not knowing what the hell they're doing.
 
Adam

Adam

SpecialKO said:
Um, no I didn't. Steinman claimed that police should be sending homeless people to the park instead of shelters. That was the comment I originally objected to. I stayed out of it until then.

I pointed out that the police should not funneling homeless people into the park at all because a) the park by all the accounts I have seen thus far isn't set up for it, and b) homeless people in NYC can have a lot of health and mental problems that random park protesters are particularly ill-equipped to deal with, due to a) and due to generally not knowing what the hell they're doing.
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I'm going to selectively edit this quote down to "protestors are ... generally not knowing what the hell they are doing" - SpecialKO.

I totally could get a job at Fox.
 
strawman

strawman

SpecialKO said:
Please cite your sources of information showing that police are vetting the people that you think they should be sending. There's a reason why you're specifically encouraged to not feed homeless people on the NYC subways but direct them to the nearest shelter or MTA official so they can direct them to nearest shelter.
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I don't recall claiming that the police are sending homeless to OWS. Please cite your sources that say they are.

I'm arguing your claims - if the police are directing homeless there, they may be perfectly able to do so. However they might not be doing it at all.
 
SpecialKO

SpecialKO

Adammon said:
I'm going to selectively edit this quote down to "protestors are ... generally not knowing what the hell they are doing" - SpecialKO.

I totally could get a job at Fox.
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I agree with that statement. You have my full permission.

I'm SpecialKO, and I approve this message.

I'm still trying to stay out of the OWS vs Tea Party stuff, but generally I have a pretty low opinion of the average "social causes" protester in NYC. The bullshit block-the-road-with-our-tents thing is just disrespectful to people trying to get to work, it's always championed by some uber-privileged hipster-types pretending to be poor and oppressed, and there's almost never a concrete goal beyond "we're mad and we're not going to take it anymore!"

Added at: 17:22
stienman said:
I don't recall claiming that the police are sending homeless to OWS. Please cite your sources that say they are.

I'm arguing your claims - if the police are directing homeless there, they may be perfectly able to do so. However they might not be doing it at all.
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I never said they are, Dubyamn did. I simply said that they shouldn't be, regardless. If you think I was claiming that they are, we may have been arguing at cross-purposes.
 
Tress

Tress

Ah, the discussion has devolved into the "obfuscation and semantic arguments" phase of bullshit, I see. My mistake.
 
GasBandit

GasBandit

Staff member
Tress said:
Ah, the discussion has devolved into the "obfuscation and semantic arguments" phase of bullshit, I see. My mistake.
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Close, this is the "No, I didn't say that, that other guy said that" phase, which trips me up a lot too (on both ends, dishing and receiving). I blame flighty flibbertyjibbets who can't just pick an avatar and stick with it.
 
SpecialKO

SpecialKO

Tress said:
Ah, the discussion has devolved into the "obfuscation and semantic arguments" phase of bullshit, I see. My mistake.
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My exact quote:

It would be irresponsible and potentially quite dangerous for the NYPD to intentionally direct homeless people, who often have need of actual medical care, food, and social services, to that park as opposed to an actual shelter, or even a much larger park.
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You can disagree with that, as steinman did, but if you can't understand it and or think itsmeaning is somehow unclear, I suggest you drink more coffee.
Added at: 17:39
Krisken said:
Best I can find on the NY Police sending people to Zuccotti Park is an opinion piece from the NY Daily News (and since it's the only source I can find, it is why I haven't weighed in on the subject).
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I would not trust an Op-Ed from any NYC tabloid paper, particular the Daily News or the Post.
 
Covar

Covar

I'll admit to reading the Daily News. Only the sports section though, I like their Yankee coverage. Because sometimes I want to read 5 different writers reporting on the exact same game. It's like they compete with each other on who can make the punniest headline.
 
Espy

Espy

Frankie Williamson said:
Oakland is embarrassing everyone who's ever donned a uniform to serve and protect.

It's gut-wrenching to see law enforcement act like this.
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Not that it's ANY excuse, but the only thing I've ever heard people who live around there say in defense of the cops is that they are products of the city they live in.
 
Tress

Tress

Espy said:
Not that it's ANY excuse, but the only thing I've ever heard people who live around there say in defense of the cops is that they are products of the city they live in.
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Pretty much. Yes, the cops can be hard-asses with little regard for the public they protect. They also have to deal with a festering sore called downtown Oakland, which really is as drug-riddled and violent as people think it is.
 
AshburnerX

AshburnerX

Frankie Williamson said:
Oakland is embarrassing everyone who's ever donned a uniform to serve and protect.



It's gut-wrenching to see law enforcement act like this.
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That is definitely going to lead to a lawsuit. He was clearly posing no threat, so he was ether shot to antagonize him or an officer doesn't understand what a clean shot is.
 
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