Former President Trump Thread

Bubble181

Bubble181

Hmm. I dothink there's also part of the don't-atribute-to-malice thing going on.
Hardly anybody actively believes they're the bad guys - even (most) Nazis did what they did to help improve humanity (clean up the gene pool, you know), take back what was stolen from them, etc etc. For most of history, Europeans have believed they were Exporting Civilization/Freedom/Salvation/etc To The Poor Savages. To be clear, we're far from alone in that point of view, and plenty of other civilizations and cultures have done similar or worse things to others. But anyway.
A lot of what happened "back then" is either long enough ago that it's hard to work out specifics of how, why, what was done and how terrible it was exactly, or it's still so closeby that it's practically still "the same" country/government as is now active.
Yes, some people are willfully blind, but I stil lthink it's mostly a matter of ignorance.
 
HCGLNS

HCGLNS

I've said it for a while now, Hitler will be a hero within 200 years.

But back to cheeto, if you take put those non-American blue states....it's still a fucking disaster fatass.
 
Shakey

Shakey

Bubble181 said:
Hmm. I dothink there's also part of the don't-atribute-to-malice thing going on.
Hardly anybody actively believes they're the bad guys - even (most) Nazis did what they did to help improve humanity (clean up the gene pool, you know), take back what was stolen from them, etc etc. For most of history, Europeans have believed they were Exporting Civilization/Freedom/Salvation/etc To The Poor Savages. To be clear, we're far from alone in that point of view, and plenty of other civilizations and cultures have done similar or worse things to others. But anyway.
A lot of what happened "back then" is either long enough ago that it's hard to work out specifics of how, why, what was done and how terrible it was exactly, or it's still so closeby that it's practically still "the same" country/government as is now active.
Yes, some people are willfully blind, but I stil lthink it's mostly a matter of ignorance.
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But unless we’re honest about what happened and why, that ignorance will continue, and we’ll just keep reliving it and saying “But they meant well...”
 
Bubble181

Bubble181

Shakey said:
But unless we’re honest about what happened and why, that ignorance will continue, and we’ll just keep reliving it and saying “But they meant well...”
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Oh, this is true. Government is a slow-moving thing and sensitivities can sometimes change very quickly, so nothing can be perfect, but yeah, we do need to keep raising awareness and keep trying to find honesty and reality. Which does not equal necessarily saying anything any white man ever did is either evil or was actually done by his wife, either, to be fair.
But, yes, we have to be honest about what happened.
Vilifying people isn't a solution, though. Understanding how and why normal people allowed or contributed to horrible things happening in their name is. Because it's far too easy to say "I'm not a nazi" when, frankly, the mentality and reasoning of a lot of people these days really is where the nazi's were 10 years before the war.
 
ScytheRexx

ScytheRexx

There is just no getting through to some people.

I mean look at what happened today with Chris Wray. This dude was TRUMP APPOINTED to head the FBI. Today he goes in to testify and throws out some big conclusions the FBI and other intelligence agencies have reached.

1) Russia is working extremely hard using social media and online communities to denigrate Joe Biden.
2) Antifa is not an actual organization but just an ideology that many people pick up.
3) The biggest piece of the bucket that makes up "domestic terrorism" has been racially motivated attacks by white supremacists.

Yes, some of this stuff we ALREADY KNEW, but people have been putting their fingers in their ears about it forever. Now someone appointed by Trump is giving out the info and what does all his supporters do? Say he was bought out, or mistaken, or that it was a mistake to appoint him to the job in the first place.

They don't care about truth.
 
Tress

Tress

PatrThom said:
I don’t know why every country always seems to want to bury the skeletons of its past. I assume it’s because it’s embarrassIng to have to admit to your nation’s citizens just how irresponsibly the folks with statues may have acted or how reprehensible your nation’s policies may have been, and that knowing about these things could potentially cause those citizens to think less of their nation as a result, or feel like they have to make excuses to other nations to save face.

BUT on the other hand just think how an adult citizen‘s faith/trust in their government might be shaken/shattered if they were to suddenly discover that their government has been LYING to them their whole life about something so important. Why, some of ‘em might be outraged at the discovery, and then have a hard time believing anything their government tells them from that point forward. And others might even develop an unhealthy coping mechanism where they selectively “choose not to believe” the truths they find inconvenient, even when those truths (and sufficient facts to back them up) are thrust into their faces. Adopting an oblivious attitude/habit like that could lead to all sorts of other problems as time goes by.

to:dr; Honesty is the best domestic policy.

—Patrick
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I agree with you. But I also know for a fact that a vocal portion of this country (mostly conservatives) believe that history teachers are there to create proud, patriotic Americans. They prioritize this over actually educating Americans. In their mind every high school grad should think that the country is a paragon of virtue, regardless of the facts.

I have had also numerous negative interactions with parents upset that I focus on negative parts of the past, or too much on one group over another. People have an agenda for education in history, and for some the truth doesn't fit into that agenda.

By the way, there are two states that basically control what history textbooks say. Texas and California are the biggest buyers of textbooks, so most publishers write their textbooks to please one or the other. They can't handle the cost of tailoring textbooks for each state (beyond the required state history sections). So around 80-90% of textbooks reflect the ideological views of politicians in either California or Texas. Generally speaking you get two very different flavors of history with this system, and students don't know that the other exists.

Texas "style" books talk incessantly about the glories of the US and typically downplay anything negative; California does a much better job balancing the narrative with positive and negative, but sometimes goes a bit wonky with other things by listening to fringe groups with an agenda (for example, a group of Indian-American parents almost successfully got any mention of the caste system removed from textbooks because it made India look bad).

I don't know what to tell you. Anecdotally I can tell you that I, and my colleagues at my school, try to talk about bad things like the genocide against Native Americans, the Tuskegee Experiments, Japanese Internment, and so on. The Holocaust is covered in detail numerous years, in multiple subjects. We talk about the good things too; we're just trying to teach about all of the past and what it means for the present. We don't cherry pick.

I'd also like to point out that sometimes schools teach this information, and teenagers promptly forget it. The survey doesn't necessarily represent what schools teach so much as it represents what young people remember from their classes.
 
Squidleybits

Squidleybits

I went to an American high school overseas and had to take history to graduate. I must have had a Texas text book. It was super weird because it didn’t match with my past 11 years of education here or with my dad’s university major in history specifically covering US/Canada communication and conflicts.
 
Dei

Dei

My mom was shocked that my kids didn't really learn about the Erie Canal in school, because they learned about Colorado history and not the history of other individual states as much.
 
Dei

Dei

I couldn't tell you shit about the history of the Erie Canal at this point, except the reason it was built, but I remember there was a song.
 
jwhouk

jwhouk

Heck, I didn't know much about Wisconsin history until well after I had already graduated from UW-Whitewater.

I didn't even realize where my great-great grandfather was buried until something like 2007.
 
PatrThom

PatrThom

Tress said:
there are two states that basically control what history textbooks say.
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Oh, I know.
The move to tablet learning and electronic textbooks was supposed to break this stranglehold because it’s a helluva lot cheaper to make and distribute .PDFs than actual, physical textbooks, but of course we’re hung up in legal wrangling about the usual copyright/piracy/DRM distribution issues that have delayed adoption, much to the Texas BoE’s delight, I’m sure.

--Patrick
 
Bubble181

Bubble181

Or, "He who controls the past, commands the future. He who commands the future, conquers the past."

Both work pretty well.
 
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ScytheRexx

ScytheRexx

Puerto Rico "Sir, we have been destroyed by Hurricane Maria, please help us."

Trump "Eh you an island. Islands are too far. Here, have some paper towels."

Puerto Rico "Sir it's been over a year, we are dying, we can't maintain our infrastructure. It's so bad that many of our people are fleeing to Florida."

Trump "You guys sure complain a lot. Can someone tell me if we can trade them for Greenland?"

Two more years later.

Advisor "Sir our numbers are not looking good in Florida, we might be losing it."

Trump "How the hell did that happen?"

Advisor "Well it seems none of the Puerto Rican refugees that fled there are all too happy about how you left their home to squander and rot."

Trump "Wait... they can vote!?"

Advisor "Well, yes. They are American citizens."

Trump "13 billion dollars! Look guys! I am sending you all the money you asked for! It was my plan all along!"
 
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PatrThom

PatrThom

Internal records reveal Treasury Department attempted leveraged “takeover” of USPS
people familiar with the negotiations [said] that “the agency continued to press the idea for weeks, insisting that any loan to USPS should result in the Treasury ‘assuming operational control of the mail agency.’”
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Federal judge rules Trump andDeJoy waged ‘politically motivated attack’ against USPS
The judge’s order will honor a request from 14 states to temporarily roll back a recent, sweeping and highly controversial series of changes at the USPS [...] “The states have demonstrated that the defendants are involved in a politically motivated attack on the efficiency of the Postal Service.“
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Louis DeJoy formally accused of violating campaign finance law
“Louis DeJoy’s rise as GOP fundraiser was powered by contributions from coworkers who were later reimbursed, former employees say.” Under federal law, having someone else make a campaign finance contribution on your behalf is expressly illegal
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(EDIT:sorry forgot to add this at the end when I originally posted)
BUT
HER
EMAILS

—Patrick
 
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