World of Warcraft: Mists of Panderia **RAAAAANT**

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I'm so ridiculously sick of hearing "The new WoW xpac is Kung Fu Panda, Jack Black lol!!!! WoW is dead blah blah blah".

If anything, Kung Fu Panda ripped off Ranma 1/2 (20yrs ago), Tekken (10yrs ago) and Panderans have been in WoW lore since 2003 (Not the April Fools Joke) but the stories of Chen Stormstout and all the lore that was written in the RPG books (they're not cannon but they pre-date Kung Fu Panda by years) as well as all the information that's been released that Panderan were originally going to be released as the Alliance class in Burning Crusade, also a full year prior to Kung Fu Panda.

I swear, if that's all you get out of watching the trailer, then you're purposelly trying to dislike it.

(I honestly thought only the mindless masses of the WoW General boards, MMO Champion boards and Youtube Commentors were the ones who didn't get it. I'm so disappointed to know that we even have some intelligent members of HFers that see things the same way.)
 
I admit I didn't read every single post of the Blizzcon thread, but I didn't get the sense that anyone was knocking the idea so much as the timing. Example, my post was not "they should've done this before King Fu Panda", it was "that's something I wanted in WoW when I was still playing, but it's not enough to get me back."

I don't see anything derogatory about them being called Kung Fu Pandas though. They're Pandaren monks.
 

GasBandit

Staff member
I enjoyed the pandaren brewmaster mission in WC3. Back when I still played WoW, and the first expansion with new races was coming out, I was hoping it'd be pandaren.

Well, it's years too late for me to care now. But this whole pandaren/jack black thing to me smells just like the whole "Oh my god, have you seen this warhammer online stuff? Somebody should tell blizzard they're ripping off warcraft!!!"

 
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Chibibar

The problem is that people have short memory :( some people didn't even play WC3 or much less do anything else.

Funny thing is that if Blizzard DID release pandarean 1 year before and "Kung Fu Panda" came out, people will be screaming they are ripping off WoW.

Heck, remember when the LotR: Two Towers came out? People are screaming they are "debasing off tragedy of the twin towers in NY" I went like "hua?!!? the book was written YEARS ago with that title"
but people will continue to be stupid.
 

Dave

Staff member
I never played the WC games as I can't stand RTS games. So when I heard about the whole Kung Fu Panda thing I thought they were kidding. So you can rage all you want, but that's the association a LOT of people are going to have when they see it.
 
Just because they're assoociating it, due to ignorance, doesn't mean I can't call them out on it.

This is just another phase of the race whine:
Space Goats? They made up lore on the spot?! Wow is dead, stupidest idea ever.
Blood Elves? Pretty Elves in my Horde? Wow is dead, stupidest idea ever.
Werewolves? All this bullshit is happening because of the Twilight and Furry Fans. Wow is dead, stupidest idea ever.
Goblins a Horde faction? They spent all these years making goblins a neutral race and fuck it up now? Wow is dead, stupidest idea ever.

Pandas? Stupid Jack Black movie bullshit. Wow is dead, stupidest idea ever.
 
Just think how many chances that Blizz had to beat Dreamworks to the punch.

Another problem is that the non-Trolls spouting the KFPanda crap are just high school kids that have no idea of history (of any kind.)
 
Amazing write-up on the subject, with less "angry hate rant"
http://wow.joystiq.com/2011/10/24/5-reasons-you-should-love-mists-of-pandaria/
5. Pandaria

Most players that have been around since The Burning Crusade can recall what they felt when they first stepped through the Dark Portal. It was something akin to butterflies in the stomach, fear, and utter excitement. Where we were going was someplace new, we knew that much -- but we had no idea what to expect when we took those first few steps. Pandaria represents an Azeroth we have never, ever seen before. It is a wholly new concept, with all-new, vividly different terrain.

Cataclysm gave us a lot of new vistas with Deathwing's transformation of the world -- but at the end of the day, it was still Azeroth. Pandaria, on the other hand, presents us with someplace so completely foreign that we have no idea what to expect. And we still don't. The starting zone is a wandering island on the back of a turtle. Is that what Pandaria looks like? Nope! There were shots here and there of the different areas of the new continent, and it looks absolutely gorgeous. But there are also parts of that continent that we haven't seen yet.



4. Pandaren

Remember when the Draenei were announced as the second race for The Burning Crusade, and everyone scratched their heads and said, "What is that? Space goats? You're giving us space goats, really?" What did we get out of that experience? We got a race of alien creatures that we'd never seen before, with a story that ended up being so ultimately compelling that we were (and still are) annoyed that their story was not explored further.

Here, we have a race that was previously a tongue-in-cheek joke. Now they are not. Pandaren have been fleshed out a little here and there in the RPG books -- I've covered that before in Know Your Lore. We do know, however, that not everything in those RPG books is considered canon; they may have an entirely different history than what the RPG source books spelled out.

Beyond that, you should see the level of detail on these guys. The facial expressions are absolutely enchanting, the body movements are well constructed and fluid, and the models themselves are utterly polished. There are not any female Pandaren yet -- but that's OK. That'll come with time. If they're anywhere near the level of detail of the male Pandaren, it's going to be fantastic.



3. New talent system

Remember once upon a time when you didn't have to think about where to put your talents, you just looked up the best spec online, plunked the points in and called it a day? Guess what? That's utterly boring. There is nothing engaging about that process whatsoever, unless the website with the cookie-cutter build also happens to have an entertaining article or two to look at while you are plunking in points.

The new system is drastically different than anything we've seen before. Choosing between talent perks is going to take thought. Are some specs going to be better than others? Maybe. We won't know until we see it all finalized.

Is it different and new? Absolutely. Why would Blizzard want to give us the same old thing, when we aren't happy with the same old thing? The old talent trees were clonky, unwieldy, and they just didn't work in a fluid and fun fashion. That's what playing a game is supposed to be about -- fun. If it's not fun, why play it, right?



2. New lore

Maybe this isn't as high on everyone's priority list as it is mine. Some people care about the story; others don't. But the core of World of Warcraft has always been the heart at the center of the stories that play out as you're wandering around the world. People have been saying for quite some time that they would like to see the world move on from addressing old topics that happened back in the earlier Warcraft games. This is exactly that. We aren't addressing anything old. There isn't a Lich King or Illidan or Kael'thas to wonder about, and the Aspects haven't even been mentioned.

This is brand new stuff, guys. This is the new frontier. We are the big damn heroes who mopped up what the world threw at us from the past, and now we are moving into the future. With that future come new stories and lore -- and new obstacles to overcome. We aren't addressing the old storylines anymore because they've been taken care of. Remember when Warcraft III came out and how the story was fresh, and new, and interesting? We get to relive that feeling again. I don't know about you, but it excites me to think about what kind of new things we are going to see.

And the #1 reason you should love the new expansion:




1. The unknown

Yeah, you heard me right. Everyone is looking at what was announced and saying that it isn't thrilling or particularly exciting. Guys, you are calling the glass half empty here and turning away in disgust. This is where the tinfoil hat work that I do comes into play. I don't look at what I'm being told, half the time -- I look at what I'm not being told. And guess what? There is a ton of stuff here that we simply have not been told yet. Blizzard bombarded us with information about new talent systems. It let us play through the starting zone of the new race. It told us about the pet battle system. But what didn't Blizzard tell us?

For example, let's look at the monk class. First off -- guys, this class is a blast to play. There is no auto-attack. Every time you push a button, your character does something. You don't get to sit there and do nothing while your character idly whacks away at something; you are engaging with the world. It's unique, new and utterly different -- and that's what makes it fun! But beyond that, the monks themselves perform all kinds of fancy new moves. They have cool stances and moves that I've never seen before. They roll.

Now think about that for a minute. Every race can be a monk, except for Goblins and Worgen -- the two newest, freshest, most detailed character models and skeletons that have come out. What do you think is going to have to happen in order for your Gnome, Dwarf, Human, Night Elf, Draenei, Troll, Orc, Tauren, Forsaken, or Blood Elf to be able to perform those kinds of acrobatics?

You following me?




Let's look at previous expansions. In The Burning Crusade, the first expansion, the trailer made it emphatically clear that Illidan was the big boss of the expansion and we'd be killing him. Then we got Kil'jaeden added in at the end, which was pretty unexpected and cool. In Wrath of the Lich King, we knew from the second the expansion was announced who the big, bad guy was going to be. In Cataclysm, it was utterly clear who the final boss was going to be, because he's the one that caused the cataclysm in the first place.

When you are reading a book and the villain is known from the get-go, how fun is it to read that book? When you're playing a game, how fun is it to know who the final boss is going to be? Let's go back a step further and look at vanilla. We knew Onyxia was a bad guy; it was pointed out in questing. We knew Ragnaros and the Molten Core were coming into play. When they announced Blackwing Lair, everyone was frothing at the mouth with excitement, thinking they were going to wield an Ashbringer because there were hints thrown in implying that they might find it there.





When AQ-40 came into play, we were blindsided. What was this strange temple, who were the Aqir, what the heck was C'thun? We had no idea. We didn't know what we were in for. The lead-up event, the final payoff, all that lurking through the depths of Ahn'Qiraj and finally seeing what the heck that thing looked like -- that was where the excitement played in. It was the unknown that kept us guessing -- and guessing games are fun.

Do you know why we don't have a big, bad boss? Because Blizzard hasn't given us one yet. And it's not going to. Every previous expansion, we've known exactly what we were getting into from the moment we saw the trailer, and we knew what we were going to be doing every step of the way. Everything we played through in The Burning Crusade led up to Illidan's defeat. Everything in Wrath led us to the Lich King. We knew we were going there. There was no mystery, and there was no excitement.

If you take away the mystery, the fun ceases to exist. That's what's been missing with every expansion to date. That's why expansions get boring at the end, because we know it is coming to an end, and we know how it is going to end, and we are bored because we know it.

Do we know what's coming? No. Is the glass half empty? If you want to look at it that way. The way I'm looking at it is that it's a glass half full. What we have been presented with is what we have been missing for three expansions -- the sense of mystery and wonder that we had in classic WoW. That excitement that was prevalent with every step we forged through the new and entirely alien world of Azeroth, a world we hadn't seen before, a world where we had no idea what to expect. Guys, we are getting back the awe and wonder of those first days of World of Warcraft.
 

fade

Staff member
Boy I remember the first time I stepped through the Dark Portal. I thought, "Gee, I hope this is the end of 'Kill X of Y' missions", only to have the first zone consist of basically nothing but kill X of Y missions.
 
The Annual Pass Diablo 3 deal is supposedly a limited time offer. They nailed it when they said if you buy the Diablo Collector's edition, the extra $$$ you spend will be put toward 4 months of WoW time.

Fade said:
Boy I remember the first time I stepped through the Dark Portal. I thought, "Gee, I hope this is the end of 'Kill X of Y' missions", only to have the first zone consist of basically nothing but kill X of Y missions.
Then you don't want to play ANY MMO. The problem isn't with "WoW".
 
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Chibibar

The Annual Pass Diablo 3 deal is supposedly a limited time offer. They nailed it when they said if you buy the Diablo Collector's edition, the extra $$$ you spend will be put toward 4 months of WoW time.

Then you don't want to play ANY MMO. The problem isn't with "WoW".
I'm going for the CE Diablo III edition :)

So I'm not taking up the offer for regular Diablo III (I don't play WoW anymore and probably not going back anytime soon lack of time to play really)
 
WoW died to me several years ago when they started to cater to the fucken carebears and RUINED MAAAH RAIDIN'.
 

GasBandit

Staff member
I still say that any gamer who doesn't give WoW a try and play to at least level 50 or so is doing themselves a disservice. After that, you can quit with no regrets or fears that you might have missed out on anything worthwhile.
 
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Chibibar

I still say that any gamer who doesn't give WoW a try and play to at least level 50 or so is doing themselves a disservice. After that, you can quit with no regrets or fears that you might have missed out on anything worthwhile.
Heh. good. cause I have a level 85 Pally and couple of 60s and did my share of raiding.
 
I still say that any gamer who doesn't give WoW a try and play to at least level 50 or so is doing themselves a disservice. After that, you can quit with no regrets or fears that you might have missed out on anything worthwhile.
I quit at level 38 about three months after the game launched. I wasn't having any fun, and I've since realized the whole MMO model doesn't appeal to me. Close enough? Or should I go redeem my free 14 days offer?
 

GasBandit

Staff member
Heh. good. cause I have a level 85 Pally and couple of 60s and did my share of raiding.
I hope by "raiding" you meant attacking other players in their cities. Because if you meant smacking the same ubermob with 40 other neckbeards for 3 hours, I have some bad news for you.
Added at: 17:53
I quit at level 38 about three months after the game launched. I wasn't having any fun, and I've since realized the whole MMO model doesn't appeal to me. Close enough? Or should I go redeem my free 14 days offer?
Close enough. You experienced enough of the game to have a frame of reference for memetic purposes.
 
If you don't care about lore, then yeah, it's just going to be "Uber npc #109300 vs 10/25 people" for a few hours a night.

Otherwise, WoW couldn't be closer to an interactive storyline game if it were single player right now.
 
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Chibibar

If you don't care about lore, then yeah, it's just going to be "Uber npc #109300 vs 10/25 people" for a few hours a night.

Otherwise, WoW couldn't be closer to an interactive storyline game if it were single player right now.
Yup. All MMO have grinds. There is no way to get around it. It is HOW it is grind can make it fun. I remember I had tons of fun leveling cause the stories were interesting and I didn't mind playing for hours :)
 

GasBandit

Staff member
Yup. All MMO have grinds. There is no way to get around it. It is HOW it is grind can make it fun. I remember I had tons of fun leveling cause the stories were interesting and I didn't mind playing for hours :)
Until last summer's patch that ruined it, Warhammer Online didn't have a grind if you didn't want it to. I had several characters that I got to max level exclusively through PvP (or RvR as EA-Mythic calls it)... and DELETED THEM and started over to do it again. I think over the course of my subscription, I had at least 30 warrior priests make it to the endgame (though I only kept one to progress through the end of the endgame, which in my opinion was a lot less fun than PvPing your way up from level 1 all over again).
 
The new talents are dumb. It will still be basically cookie cutter when it comes to raiding and PvP I'm sure. Outside of those two things, who cares where you put your points, it doesn't matter. People who are hardcore will still cookie cutter their stuff, and casuals will continue to either cookie cutter because it's what raiders do, or just do w/e they want anyways. The only way to not have this happen is to either have so many abilities that you will be constantly respeccing, or to ban all talent theorizing that exists on the internet. People want their talents to MATTER. If they want to min/max, then they will still find a way to do it. And the continued attempts to reduce things down to make it "more interesting" just seems to get kind of silly.
 

Necronic

Staff member
MMOs in general seem to have taken a pretty significant hit in the last year. There's part of me that wants to say it's becaue of the recession, but it seems to be some specific issues for each system.

For EvE they took a pretty major hit in their player counts (including myself) due to some mismanagement by the devs and a very low rent expansion. It looks like they might be getting some back but v0v.

For WoW the recent loss of players seems more like a standard thing that happens in between major expansions. After the expansion they get a resurgence of players. But I dunno. Sooner or later even a baby gets tired of playing peek-a-boo.

Either way...it's not a Kung Fu Panda ripoff, that's ridiculous. THIS is a Kung fu panda ripoff.

 
Also, Cata is pretty casual friendly really, even if casuals aren't doing cutting edge raiding, the fact that 10 mans and 25 mans drop the same loot, combined with the fact that Blizzard nerds stuff to special Ed levels as soon as new content comes out, makes it kind of silly to claim that it's hardcore. I guess it is for a few weeks, though.
 
The biggest difference between Cata and BC is the existence of normal and heroic raids. The very fact that people can do content is easy mode now lowers people's desire to join über guilds. On top of that, watching people try to find new guilds after my guild burned out then watching those guilds burn out and making people start looking again says to me that a lot of raising guilds are burning out. The 10 man thing is different as well, but I would think it would lead to higher %.
 
I enjoyed the pandaren brewmaster mission in WC3. Back when I still played WoW, and the first expansion with new races was coming out, I was hoping it'd be pandaren.

Well, it's years too late for me to care now. But this whole pandaren/jack black thing to me smells just like the whole "Oh my god, have you seen this warhammer online stuff? Somebody should tell blizzard they're ripping off warcraft!!!"

 
If you'll depend foolishly on your "stats" dude, you're basing your defensive opinion on something that you "don't do, nor fully understand". Alright, you asked for it.

Firstly, they nerfed Sunwell a few months before the big new expansion, which allowed a lot of guilds to complete Sunwell content when they were never able to complete it beforehand. For example, my guild on Medivh we only had 1 guild to finish Sunwell pre-nerf... ours. Most guilds were stuck on the Twins or the Undead Dragon. Within 2 to 3 weeks, 7 guilds totally completed Sunwell content and some were working on Kil'jaeden.

Secondly, a lot of hardcore raiders left the game before and during Cataclysm as it catered to the casual gamers. Not a bad business decision since a lot more casual gamers than ever are playing WoW. With less hardcore players playing the game and casual gamers not inclined to finish content, the stats prove nothing I didn't already know and mean nothing.

How badly has raiding affected things? Of the 30+ people I raided with for more than 3 years together, fewer than a dozen or so have continued to play the game, much less even raid elsewhere. Our Facebook group is filled with tales of memories of the good old days and our anticipation of SWTOR.

Lastly, recycled content is recycled. No one gave a shit about Ragnaros. Especially when they completed the content on easy mode. Stats fail again.

 
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