Microsoft accused of racism: PC getting out of hand

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There's quite a lot of articles but here's one:

http://idle.slashdot.org/story/09/0...nd-Photoshops-Black-Guy-To-White-One?from=rss

Basically, on Microsoft's website, there's a picture of an Asian, Black and white person. On the Polish version of the site, the black guy was replaced by another white guy. This has caused people to accuse Microsoft of racism and they even mentioned it in the news this morning.

Of course, it's easier to complain than to think why the Polish site had a change: the black population in Poland is virtually zero. Is it racism because you simply want to portray your target audience?
 
I highly doubt that the change was racially motivated. In all likelihood, it was a simple marketing decision. However, the sloppy Photoshop job makes it seem a little careless. How hard can it be to find a stock photo of a bunch of white guys in a conference room? :blue:
 
I do too, actually. While I believe in being courteous and honest, one should not have to constantly monitor everything they say or do just because they might accidentally offend somebody.
 
Positive discrimination and exaggerated Political correctness are two of my pet peeves really. Both make matters worse instead of better. The moment you make sweeping accusations and being unbalanced in such matters, you're just giving those that are truly racist and discriminating another reason to stick to their ways.
 
I agree with the "stock photo of white dudes in a conference room shouldn't be too hard to find", but meh...just a poor marketing decision. I highly doubt this was done with racist intent.
 
Real discrimination is always a problem but that doesn't mean we should be going on witch hunts and slamming down anyone who does anything that may be perceived as racist.

A few months ago, a Dutch pool owner refused to let a Muslima enter while wearing a burkini. A burkini is a burka which covers the entire body while only leaving part of the face. It's made of a thick non-transparent material which is a lot heavier than a standard swimsuit. The reason for not allowing entry was because the owner said it was against the pool's rules for reasons involving hygiene. (the showers at the entrance of the pool are ineffective against a burkini, the hair is not properly held the way a bathing cap would, etc.).

Anyway, they filed a complaint and the Commission of Discrimination and Racism filed a lawsuit against him which they won. Result? The pool got closed down and people were not able to go there at all anymore. Does that really help? Why can't a pool owner set the dress code for his pool? It's not like he's not allowing them in - he simply laid down rules which he has a right to.
 
I don't know. I don't see this being made an issue at all if they had either left the black guy with a black face or found a white guy or even just photoshopped the entire image of the black guy. The problem for me (and I should probably mention that I'm white) isn't necessarily that they replaced the black guy with a white guy so much as they did an incredibly piss poor job of hiding the fact that they were replacing a black guy with a white guy. I mean, come on, that face obviously doesn't belong on that body.
 
S

SeraRelm

Or they didn't want some old dude in their ad.

I bet they did that on a mac.
 
Just watched an episode of Better off Ted called "Racial Sensitivity" with a similar story. Veridian Dynamics installs motion sensors to activate everything in their building, from automatic lights and doors, to drinking fountains, elevators, etc ... Problem is: the motion sensor doesn't sense black people.

Probably the best half hour of television I've seen in a very, very long time.
 
L

Lally

I've looked at the picture long enough that I'm not even sure the original head was supposed to go on that body. Maybe now I'm going to see all Microsoft models' heads as interchangeable. [shudder]
 
As someone who is part hispanic (my left toe, right shin, and most of my scalp), I'm just offended that my people were not represented in the picture. Laws should be passed that someone of each ethnicity should be included in any advertisement involving a group of three or more people, just to keep it fair. Steps should also be taken to make sure the images clearly include parties from all major political groups, religious groups, sexual preferences, etc. Exceptions can be made for furries, because they're freaks, but everyone else.


(Just kidding, Pojo. ;))
 
I don't begrudge Microsoft for ignoring a virtually non-existent minority in another country. I do think PC gets out of hand sometimes, and you obviously can't have perfect racial balance in every advertisement or story (And even if you could it would be just as unrealistic).

BUT

(WARNING: INCOMING RANT)

A lot of the attitudes in this thread are the reason why racism is still a big deal. I realize a lot of them were jokes, but even a lot of the jokes clearly stem from an attitude that is contributing to the problem.

1. "It was a marketing decision, not racially motivated"

Um, totally missing the point. If I refuse to hire a black man because he will be "bad for business" (say I'm a shop owner in the 1960s), the fact that my decision is completely financially motivated does not stop it from being a racist act. The vast majority of American films, tv, games and books are starring white people, with nonwhites generally getting good sidekick rolls at best, rolls that emphasize their ethnicity and making it out to be a big deal that causes problems at second best, and often just being caricatures. This is not meaningless. As recently as 2006 there have been experiments that show that young black children often have a negative self image. 1/3 of black males go to jail at some time in their life. You either have to believe that black people are inherently more likely to be bad (which is pretty blatantly racist) or you have to admit that there still some serious inequalities in American society that cause this.

(I'm focusing specifically on America because discrimination is going to depend entirely on the country in question - which is part of why yes, the Polish Advertisement Uproar was stupid. Poland is a different place with different issues)

2. "OMG REVERSE DISCRIMINATION."

Dude, you're white. You barely know what discrimination means. (With the possible exception of the guy who went to China and had people badmouthing him in Mandarin all over the place, which still isn't "reverse" discrimination because it happened in a country where whites weren't in power). Yes, reverse discrimination happens sometime. No, we have not remotely reached the point where it comes close to balancing anything out, let alone cause any meaningful hardships for whites in America).

3. While I believe in being courteous and honest, one should not have to constantly monitor everything they say or do just because they might accidentally offend somebody.

I do agree with this. BUT a lot of people haven't the slightest clue that they are being genuinely offensive, and until you have made an effort to examine your behaviors and think about what you might be doing that is contributing to institutional racism, you should not be complaining when people call you out for being offensive. There's a guy (call him Mike) in my class who made a "get to the back of the bus" joke to a black kid when the kid wanted to sit down. If Mike had intentionally been ironic, that actually may have been funny (even to the black kid). But Mike didn't even realize it was a remark steeped in racist understones. Where he grew up, (I believe somewhere in Texas) it apparently was a phrase used common enough that he assumed it was just a generic insult. (A few months ago he similarly didn't know that "There goes the neighborhood" was originally a racist remark).

Mike is not a bad guy - I don't think he's "truly" racist at all, but you don't need to be "truly" racist to say or do things that are offensive, or to contribute to the problem.

---------- Post added at 09:13 AM ---------- Previous post was at 09:03 AM ----------

I'd like to amend that by reminding everyone I'm not specifically targeting anyone here with the rant - all I know about your actual opinions on the matter are a few snarky comments that were mostly just joking.

Also:

 

Green_Lantern

Staff member
Thank you Raemon, I think that people here are overreacting about this:

First: there are worse cases of excessive PC.
Second: Someone did took the effort to actually change the picture, they don't even decided to get a new one, they decide to eliminate the black guy with a white one, racially motivated or not, is not that hard to think that the issue was the original guy skin color.
 
S

SeraRelm

I think it's racist of you to focus so much on his skin color and not his age. Both of the others are young business types. Have you considered they might want to appeal to a younger generation rather than seeming like "the old guy" (IE: Mac vs PC ads).
 

Green_Lantern

Staff member
I think it's racist of you to focus so much on his skin color and not his age. Both of the others are young business types. Have you considered they might want to appeal to a younger generation rather than seeming like "the old guy" (IE: Mac vs PC ads).
The new guy is younger but not that young.
 

Green_Lantern

Staff member
He's not some gray-haired old wrinkle-bag.
Nope.

I am not saying that the change was racially motivated, what I am saying is that is not all that absurd to think that it was.

Though, saying that it could only be motivated by race, it would be absurd.
 
S

SeraRelm

On the matter of racism, how many white people do you see in sneaker commercials? RACISTS!
How many white scholarships do you know of? RACISTS!
Is there a White Entertainment Television channel? No? RACISTS!
 
On the matter of racism, how many white people do you see in sneaker commercials? RACISTS!
How many white scholarships do you know of? RACISTS!
Is there a White Entertainment Television channel? No? RACISTS!

Rabble Rabble WHITE EQUALITY!!!

Wait a min... I'm not white... HEY! :mad:
 
I think I'll paraphrase the Game Overthinker a bit here. The problem with modern racism is one of perspective, not intent.

To Black people (and other races) in America, racism is something they are always on the watch for because they are trying to preserve the ground they have gained in the last 50 years. They were raised on the stories of the previous generation who had to fight for the fucking right to be treated as human beings. They can see and sense the uncomfortable and nervous feelings they inspire in some people... they can feel the tension in the air. This is something White people will never experience unless they leave the US or Europe.

Contrast this to White People: To most white people, racism ended when the signs proclaiming "White Only" came down in the south. We literally don't see the racism happening until somebody complains about it because we don't have any frame of reference TO see it as it's happening... and it's hard not to be a little bitter about still being called racist when you see things like Affirmative Action and racially based college scholarships, actions that would be utterly condemned if they benefited whites.
 
S

SeraRelm

Actually I was calling the whole thing stupid. we should all ignore skin color and focus on the real enemy.

Furries.
 
A

Andromache

There are no white people.
There are no black people.
There are no red or yellow or brown people.

There are only the living, the dead and the Undead.
 
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