Why should "waste" money in space research?

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Green_Lantern

Green_Lantern

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I have opened some threads about my sister getting progresively more religious and nuts about it. (I hope this thread doesn't get to bawww-y)

Well, this happened during a trip and we are watching a discovery channel and she made a comment how this is a waste of money that could be used to feed/save poor people in africa (and then, went to use her new touch screen cellphone).

My usual reaction to this is to stay quiet, honestly, because I prefer to keep a low profile, but secondly, I really don't think that there is a chance of convicing her with logic or reason.

Also, the reason, I think we should "waste" money like that is simply to better understand the way that universe works (that, again I know she would ignore or dismiss), and that eventually these knowledge would become usefull, if people din't "wasted" money with scientific research just because they aren't imediatiely usefull, we wouldn't have cellphones today.

I am wrong???
 
Cajungal

Cajungal

Staff member
I think that it's better to explore something like that than to not. There would be poor, starving people whether or not the research was done. If the sad state of the world bothers her so much she should get in there and fix it.
 
Dave

Dave

Staff member
Unless you explore there's no way of knowing what beneficial knowledge there is to be gained. Without all that pesky science stuff we'd all still be living in caves flinging poop at each other.



And that's every day, not just the weekends.
 
Silver Jelly

Silver Jelly

I recently discovered my pillow is made from material designed for space exploration. The science developed for this kind of futile task has so many ramifications over the actual "discovering stuff in space"!
 
Denbrought

Denbrought

People come and go, but exploration and research leave a body of knowledge that can remain useful until many generations past ours. We're still feeling the ramifications of the European exploration that lead to the rediscovery of the Americas, and they had plenty of starving people too.
 
DarkAudit

DarkAudit

Not my words. The sentiment is thousands of years old.

Surely you're not saying we have the resources to save the poor from their lot?
There will be poor always, pathetically struggling, look at the good things you've got!
Think while you still have me, move while you still need me. You'll be lost and you'll be sorry when I'm gone!
Click to expand...
 
Cajungal

Cajungal

Staff member
DarkAudit said:
Not my words. The sentiment is thousands of years old.

Surely you're not saying we have the resources to save the poor from their lot?
There will be poor always, pathetically struggling, look at the good things you've got!
Think while you still have me, move while you still need me. You'll be lost and you'll be sorry when I'm gone!
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
*high five*
 
Covar

Covar

You could send 4 times the NASA budget to Africa and it wouldn't help things.

Some problems can not be fixed by throwing money at them.
 
Baerdog

Baerdog

Andrew Carnegie, one of the most successful American businessmen thought that!

He was also Scottish, so...yeah.
 
D

Dusty668

Source

Pet-related sales in the United States are projected to be $31 billion
Toy Sales $20.3 billion.
Gambling $586.5 billion.
Tobacco products $31 billion-Alcohol use $58 billion-Tobacco & Alcohol products healthcare costs $250 billion.

$15.47 billion NASA budget.

Now, I recall a cost benefit analysis done by the British government that shows space exploration expenditures puts 2.5 times it's cost back into the GPA of the source country but I cannot find it.

However the best CBA for that I can find was done by a carpenter in Nazarene 'The Poor You Shall Have With You Always' What does this mean for this question though, charity is a self defeating solution. Am I saying it's wrong to give to the poor and hungry? Absolutely not, just that every dollar you give to the poor makes more poor and creates the need for more charity. Every dollar you put into Space makes for a larger body of knowledge and makes more possibilities for all of us. Also the further opportunities provided makes more opportunities for the poor to actually break their current cycle and not need charity.

Now at this point we can go to all the research they have been doing in microgravity crystallization, energy research, fuel cell technology, OLED creation, color TV's, Microwave ovens, and yes even Corelware that have been directly created, improved or inspired by space based tech. We could even discuss how getting industry off of our planet into a high energy environment of space we can save our planet. But lunch is over, and I can't go into it now.
 
@Li3n

@Li3n

The problem with charity when it's only about food and clothes is that it only keeps the poor alive, but does little to actually solve the problem...
 
Dave

Dave

Staff member
But if you have food and clothes it's a fuck of a lot easier to fix your shit. Giving is good. Reading more into it can be counterproductive.
 
@Li3n

@Li3n

I don't know, death seems like the most enduring fix to me... :hmmm:




I'm not against charity, it's just that i find it as a lazy way to help, you're basically just keeping them alive and hope they sort it all out... give them a fish vs teaching them to fish etc.
 
Rob King

Rob King

Aid and charity is good, but infrastructure and education is better.

Re: Space Exploration. There are a lot of good reasons, that I'm sure other people will touch on. One that might get left out, though, is 'Jobs.' I used to have an issue with the film industry, spending so much money paying huge sums to a few actors, and all only for entertainment. But a single film can employ hundreds, maybe even thousands of people. The space program, for what other good it might do (which is a lot, don't get me wrong) also provides a shitton of jobs.

Mind you, that's not my favorite reason. My favorite reason is so that when the meteor comes and plows into earth, we might already be set up on Mars or Venus, or in another Solar System by that point. The guaranteed continuity of the human race.
 
Green_Lantern

Green_Lantern

Staff member
Why is charity = throwing money at the problem? I understand that charity could include both "giving the fish" and "teach how to fish" too.

either way, thanks for the very good justifications :)
 
sixpackshaker

sixpackshaker

But I think the whole saying goes,



"Give a man a fish, you feed him for a day. Teach a man to fish, and he will sit on his ass all day drinking beer."
 
@Li3n

@Li3n

sixpackshaker said:
It is wrong to tell a shoeless man to pull himself up by his boot-straps.
Click to expand...
Actually i was thinking more along the lines of putting shoes on him and showing him how to best pull...

Why is charity = throwing money at the problem? I understand that charity could include both "giving the fish" and "teach how to fish" too.
Click to expand...
That's why i made sure i mentioned what kind of charity.
 
C

Chibibar

Green_Lantern said:
I have opened some threads about my sister getting progresively more religious and nuts about it. (I hope this thread doesn't get to bawww-y)

Well, this happened during a trip and we are watching a discovery channel and she made a comment how this is a waste of money that could be used to feed/save poor people in africa (and then, went to use her new touch screen cellphone).

My usual reaction to this is to stay quiet, honestly, because I prefer to keep a low profile, but secondly, I really don't think that there is a chance of convicing her with logic or reason.

Also, the reason, I think we should "waste" money like that is simply to better understand the way that universe works (that, again I know she would ignore or dismiss), and that eventually these knowledge would become usefull, if people din't "wasted" money with scientific research just because they aren't imediatiely usefull, we wouldn't have cellphones today.

I am wrong???
Click to expand...
no. I have met some of these people myself. There are people who highly believe that we should not explore space cause they believe they are the only living being in this universe, but what most don't realize that there are more than just "search for life"

Many current technology born from space program. I think your best bet is to research many of the stuff your sister use daily and show her than space exploration = better way of life. Also once we figure how to grow food successfully in space (harshest environment when you don't have air ;) ) we can replicate this and grow food in these "poor" countries. If we figure how to make a successful base on Mars, I figure we can EASILY make a base in the middle of the desert that is SELF sustaining since Mars require such a base.

the list is practically endless. The more we learn from space exploration, the better lives we live here on Earth. (my opinion)
 
AshburnerX

AshburnerX

I honestly never bought this "We are alone" nonsense. How arrogant do you have to be to believe that in all the vastness of Space, that only Humanity exists? That we are truly so special that nothing could match "greatness"? It's one thing to believe that a highly advanced species visits Earth routinely to help us build monuments and piss off our cows, because that IS ludicrous. It's entirely another to believe that there is SOMETHING alive out there somewhere and that it could take us thousands of years to find.

Besides, even if there isn't, Earth isn't going to last forever. Even if we don't fuck it up ourselves, it's eventually going to be consumed when our sun goes nova. That's likely to take millions of years, but it IS a real threat.
 
@Li3n

@Li3n

AshburnerX said:
It's one thing to believe that a highly advanced species visits Earth routinely to help us build monuments and piss off our cows, because that IS ludicrous.
Click to expand...
But so damn fun...

AshburnerX said:
Besides, even if there isn't, Earth isn't going to last forever. Even if we don't fuck it up ourselves, it's eventually going to be consumed when our sun goes nova. That's likely to take millions of years, but it IS a real threat.
Click to expand...
More like trillions...
 
K

Kitty Sinatra

Green_Lantern said:
Well, this happened during a trip and we are watching a discovery channel and she made a comment how this is a waste of money that could be used to feed/save poor people in africa
Click to expand...
Exactly how much does your sister think that Brazil spends on space research, anyway?
 
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