U.S. Military Rape Culture

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This review shocked the hell out of me: The Invisible War

I had no idea there was such a problem in our military. Obviously I knew this happened, but at such a high rate, and for it to be so ignored is disgusting. Some choice quotes:

One of those stories involves Kori Cioca, who served in the Coast Guard and was hit in the face by her rapist so hard that her jaw was broken. She will require some bone replacement but has been refused treatment by the VA hospital system because her term of duty was not long enough to qualify her for medical care. Five years after the event, she is still on a diet of liquids and soft foods.

The film's implication, quite starkly, is that a strong military doesn't favor crybabies, that a certain degree of rape is unavoidable — and inevitably, that some women may have been asking for it. One hearing noted that the victim was dressed provocatively. In her official uniform.
 
Support our troops
Eunuchs are just as good soldiers as fully equipped males. Better, if they don't go around friggin' raping colleagues and/or the ones they're supposed to protect.
"She was asking for it" can, in some cases be true - of course- but "dressed provocatively" in uniform? Dude...
 
She was asking for it only applies to literal cases of someone asking for consensual sex.

Just so we're on the same page.
 
She was asking for it only applies to literal cases of someone asking for consensual sex.

Just so we're on the same page.
Yes, but I've known rape cases where she DID ask for it - and was ruled that, because she was drunk, she wasn't responsable. Even though I think it's pretty low to abuse girls so drunk they don't know what they're doing, that's still not *his* fault. Usually. Roofying someone with alcohol without them knowing it would see m hard to me, and it's usually not considered illegal.
 
Yes, but I've known rape cases where she DID ask for it - and was ruled that, because she was drunk, she wasn't responsable. Even though I think it's pretty low to abuse girls so drunk they don't know what they're doing, that's still not *his* fault. Usually. Roofying someone with alcohol without them knowing it would see m hard to me, and it's usually not considered illegal.
Holy shit, you are slime.
 
The reality is that there are far too many cases of rapes not being reported because of the repugnant military culture in the OP or terrible and hurtful viewpoints that blame the victims, say they were asking for it, say things aren't reaaaaaly rape, etc etc
 
CDS, if you're going to argue at that level, I'll jsut put you on ignore right away. It's not because I say it's obviously unacceptable, that I'm suddenly an apologist.
As Frank said, I'm refering to
a) girls being perfectly willing at the time, and crying "rape" afterwards to protect themselves of the condequences of bad choices; or
b) the grey zone between "she has had 2 glasses of wine, her inhibitions have been weakened a bit and she's willing" and "she's had two bottles of whiskey, I carry her to her bed, and she's incapable of saying no so I take advantage of her". The first is a clear case of not rape; the second, to me, is a clear case of rape. If you're going to be stubborn-miknded and claim there's no moral grey area somewhere in between those two, you're an idiot. And be glad I don't use harder words than that - you're preeetty much hitting all the wrong buttons here at the moment. My ex was raped by her stepfather; I've been there holding her hand and standing by her side. I've never been there myself, luckily, but you don't need to protect anyone from me. Calling me a rape apologist is a very sensitive thing for me, so take your eternal white knighting and go offend GasBandit or something.
 
Stop saying shit like 'she was asking for it'. There is no way to say that in any conversation about rape and not be the biggest asshole there.

Stop being so judgmental that everyone who thinks there's some grey area somewhere, possibly, anywhere, is automatically an evil bastard and has to be slandered and insulted. Rape apologist ranks far above nazi or murderer in my book, slime isn't exactly nice either.

First of all, you don't need to convince anyone - I'm pretty sure I've been in closer contact with rape victims than you have, I'm perfectly aware it's one of the worst things to do in life, right up there with pedophilia (which, you know, tends to be just an even worse form of rape). You're doing more harm t han good to your own cause.
Secondly, no matter what, just slinging insults isn't going to help anything. It's just angry antagonism; trying to goad me into saying things that can be ever-more misconstrued or interpreted as "defending rape". I don't. Rape is wrong. Rape is evil. Let me restate that so maybe it'll get throguh to you:

I do not, now nor ever, condone, approve of, apologize for, or want to minimise, rape.

Okay? Got that? Thank you. Now go read my post again, and, perhaps, open your mind far enoughto allow the possibility that, in some cases where a victim cries "rape", something else happened.
 
H

Honey Isn't Vegan

Rape is wrong, and you don't approve of it, and we get that, sure. When you start talking grey areas, though (in particular, grey areas that are more common on soap operas than in real life) that's when eyebrows start to get raised. When you start trying to break out the metaphorical breathalyzer to determine if someone was blackout drunk or just barely drunk enough to fuck someone they wouldn't ordinarily fuck, that's when "rape apologist" gets broken out.

If someone wouldn't ordinarily fuck you and you have to get them drunk so that they will, it doesn't matter how drunk you get them! If you have to alter their perceptions with a foreign substance to get them into the bedroom, that's when it's rape! It doesn't matter if you have to out-and-out drop a roofie in their shit or feed them six Miller Lites until they're all stumbly and woozy, it is the same. This is black and white. The one "grey area" you mentioned -- the one about a girl having sex that she regrets so she reports it as rape -- does that EVER happen? (And no, "A friend of a cousin of a neighbor of an acquaintance," does not fucking count.)

Do you know how many cases of rape and sexual abuse are never, ever reported? I'm an abuse survivor, myself, and I went to the fucking support groups and to fucking therapy and I have MET THESE PEOPLE and I have no fucking problem painting you with "RAPE APOLOGIST" if you continue along these lines of thought. If your "partner" cannot give consent, ever, or if they have imbibed enough to where a "yes" might not actually BE a "yes," it is rape. Plain and simple.
 
I'll bet you have.
You don't need to bet, he explicitly stated the case of it and the details besides.

Guys, this is getting well into trigger-word territory, and while this doesn't bother me personally, maybe everyone should take a step back and let it drop (or return to talking about the movie). There is no way this conversation is going to get better.
 
I'll bet you have.
First of, the implication of the way you post that is a pretty low blow.
Secondly, I was student advisor and person of contact for people with issues that didn't dare go to an authority figure (teacher etc). Quite a few of the stories I heard there drove me straight up the wall; I convinced some to go to the police and/or therapy, others were too ashamed/scared/under control of a perpatrator at the time to do anything about it. In one case I informed a principal because it was just too horrible.
Obviously I didn't exactly have hundreds of girls at my school who were all raped. It was mostly smaller stuff; though plenty of that was bad enough as it was. One of the earliest things I was confronted with and chose not to handle myself was a 12 y/o girl who apparently had no-one at home to turn to to ask questions about her period (I supposed just what you learned in Sex Ed didn't exatcly help answer all private questions and I understand not wanting to talk about it in a classroom full of 12 year old boys - but going to a 17 year old boy to ask about it struck me as weird - I handed it off to a female teacher). Some were confused about their sexuality (It's great fun having the girl you have a crush on tell you in fullest confidence that she thinks she's lesbian after having tried boys for a while; though I guess that may have been just to let me down easy :p).
Some had experimented with sexuality in ways they shouldn't have (niece/cousin), some had had a bad first time (amazingly, a first time can hurt if you're 13 for a girl. I still don't get how people do so much things without thinking about them! [this is being sarcastic]). From that period, I can remember three or four rape cases - dependingon your personal point of view on what constitutes rape. She didn't want to name it that, but it was another one of those grey areas CDS seems to think don't exist. "Not daring to say no" doesn't necessarily mean the other one literally forced you - not even that the other one took advantage of you and is fully responsible. Perhaps the other didn't know any better either - boys' minds can be warped just as much as girls' minds.
Thirdly, while I didn't have any official reason for doing so, I still got to listen to a lot of women's problems. I had - and still have- the "shoulder to cry on" vibe pouring off me in waves. Fraternity life in Belgium is mixed; quite a lot of contact with drunk girls - and since I'm one of those eternal "good guys" and eternal friends and whatever (though, lately, I've found out there were actually quite a few girls who did at one point or another have a crush on me - I just never dared to react and/or never picked up the signals...oh well); especially when certain girls were slightly drunk in the not-happy way, but in the melancholic/sad/drama way, some of them poured out their hearts to me.
Besides my ex girlfriend (beaten by her drunk father, abused by her stepfather, gotten into drugs, ended up with involuntary-but-too-doped-to-react gangbangs,...she crawled out of a VERY deep hole. That she still had too many issues for me to live with in the end, well, can't blame her fully - though she did refuse therpay when I offered to pay for it for her...Oh well, I'm better off with my current girlfriend, and last I heard she got her life back on track as well), I can name at least one girl raped by her grandfather, one who prostituted herself to her foster father and friends to protect her baby sister (they'd been placed in foster care together because their mother was a drunk and their father a drug abuser), one who was molested by all three of her brothers for years and several who were in several degrees of abusive relationships, from the "my boyfriend lends me out to his friends" category over the "I'm not allowed to enjoy sex because it's all about him" to the "I live for him and he treats me like dirt" categories.
To pay for my last years at uni, I worked in a hospital, as security; mostly in the psych ward. There, I met quite a few people who had been on the other side of the rape fenomenon - mostly not the malicious type, but people who didn't know any better, were severely mentally ill,... and of course, some more girls (and a boy) who ended up in the psych ward of the hospital (or in the children's psych ward) as victim. Some real gems of stories there, too - but I don't know any real specifics of most cases there, since I wasn't directly involved. Only know what nurses or psychiatrists deemed necessary to interact with them.

Anyway, yes, for someone who hasn't been personally involved in one way or another, and isn't working in the sector professionally, I've been in contact with rape victims and the fall-out surrounding it a lot.


And SpecialKO is completely correct. This is just a very dangerous tpoic to talk about, I've butted heads about it before with people here, and I don't think that's going to help anyone. I'm backing out here.​
 

Dave

Staff member
Interesting hot-button issue we have here. Let's keep the personal attacks and insinuations behind, though, shall we? Guess I have to surf for a bit to keep an eye on you louts.
 
I'm sorry I have distracted everyone from the real victims of rape.

Men falsely accused.

It's a shame some of our nation's freedom fighting beacons of honesty and loyalty are going to get hurt as a result of this documentary, when they had been doing a great job keeping those lying women down. They are the real rapists, when they rape the reputation of men.
 
I'm glad you're back to posting contentless trolling, Charlie. I was a bit worried when you came back and said you were going to make an effort to contribute to conversations instead of this.
 
Real rape is horrible. I believe there is a rape culture in the world.

However, there will always be those that are willing to abuse something horrible in their favour. I don't see why that is hard to accept.
 
There's just no point in bringing it up in these discussions. It's statistically irrelevant and adds nothing to any rape discussion. That's what I was trying to get across.
 
There's just no point in bringing it up in these discussions. It's statistically irrelevant and adds nothing to any rape discussion. That's what I was trying to get across.
On this, we can 100% agree on. Are there men in the world falsely accused of rape? Yes. Is it relevant to this topic? No.

It's akin to talking about the evils of the Ku Klux Klan, and then saying well, you know, there are some criminal negroes out there.
 
And that's fine, but the reasonable response is to say that, not "LOL YOU SUPPORT RAPE" or whatever it was Charlie and the new person said.
 
And that's fine, but the reasonable response is to say that, not "LOL YOU SUPPORT RAPE" or whatever it was Charlie and the new person said.
No one ever claimed that Charlie was good at discussion. He treats every attempt at such like a politician, reaching for high charged, emotional rhetoric.
 
Funny, my wife and I read that review last night. She was a Victims Advocate when she was in the military for the record. This means she trained people about these issues and people could come report these issues to her. Her take on the review was that it's probably 90% right on but that there were a few things in the review that made her raise her eyebrow and go "that... doesn't sound right". We are very interested in seeing it despite it making us angry I'm sure.
 
S

SeraRelm

I kind of want to say "fuck off" to the rape jokes, but it's the Internet. I feel that's Like trying to tell the sun not to rise.

:(
 
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