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7.3 earthquake in Haiti

#1

Hylian

Hylian

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/8455629.stm


Haiti rocked by powerful 7.3 earthquake



A powerful 7.3-magnitude earthquake has struck off the coast of Haiti, rocking the capital and sparking a tsunami alert for neighbouring states.
The tremor hit at 1653 (2153 GMT), about 15km (10m) south-west of Port-au-Prince, the US Geological Survey said.
Haiti's envoy to the US said it was a \\"catastrophe of major proportions\\" as reports from the capital spoke of casualties and damage.
A hospital and other buildings are reported to have collapsed.
A visiting US official told AP the sky in the city was \\"just grey with dust\\" and he could hear distant screaming.
The low-lying impoverished state has been plagued by natural disasters.
I just hear a tremendous amount of noise and shouting and screaming in the distance



Henry Bahn
US Department of Agriculture official, visiting Haiti

The quake was quickly followed by two strong aftershocks of 5.9 and 5.5 magnitude.
The US Pacific Tsunami Warning Center said there was the possibility of a local tsunami that could affect \\"coasts located usually no more than a 100km [60 miles] from the earthquake epicentre\\".
A tsunami watch was in effect for Haiti, the neighbouring Dominican Republic, Cuba and the Bahamas.
'Rubble and wire'
Raymond Joseph, Haiti's ambassador to the US, told CNN: \\"I think it is really a catastrophe of major proportions.\\"
He said he had just spoken to a government colleague in Port-au-Prince.
An AP cameraman saw the wrecked hospital in Petionville, a hilly suburb of the capital, and Henry Bahn, a visiting official from the US Department of Agriculture, said he had seen houses which had tumbled into a ravine.
\\"Everybody is just totally, totally freaked out and shaken,\\" said Mr Bahn.
He had, he continued, been walking to his hotel room when the ground began to shake.
\\"I just held on and bounced across the wall,\\" he said.
\\"I just hear a tremendous amount of noise and shouting and screaming in the distance.\\"
Rocks, he added, were strewn all over the place, and the ravine where several homes had fallen in was \\"just full of collapsed walls and rubble and barbed wire\\".
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#2

Dave

Dave

I'm watching this now. Haiti does not have very good construction. This could be bad.


#3

Rob King

Rob King

Haiti has this uncanny ability to never catch a break.


#4

Dave

Dave

My sister-in-law lived in Haiti for a while, right by Port au Prince. I just spoke to her and she is unable to reach anyone she knows.


#5

General Specific

General Specific

Rob King said:
Haiti has this uncanny ability to never catch a break.
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Dave said:
My sister-in-law lived in Haiti for a while, right by Port au Prince.
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I'm sorry, but that made me laugh.

Does that make me a terrible person?


#6

Rob King

Rob King

Dave said:
My sister-in-law lived in Haiti for a while, right by Port au Prince. I just spoke to her and she is unable to reach anyone she knows.
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That might not be too far off of the norm, though. Infrastructure in Haiti is downright laughable. In Port Au Prince, the power sometimes goes down for days at a time for no reason at all. Landlines are unreliable, and an earthquake is going to affect the cell towers that are around anyhow. On top of that everyone using the phones all at once to check on family and friends is going to gum up the works.

I'm sure your sister-in-law knows all this, of course, and while I don't want to downplay the gravity of an earthquake of that magnitude in a country of that poverty, her friends could very well be safe. Just without communication, is all.


#7

ThatGrinningIdiot!

ThatGrinningIdiot!

They should've casted float on themselves before they summoned Terrato!


#8

Rob King

Rob King

The Haitian capitol building.


#9

North_Ranger

North_Ranger

*deep sigh* Sorry, just couldn't help it. As part of my thesis, I've been reading about Toussaint L'Ouverture and how Saint-Domingue (that was to become Haiti) used to be one of the richest places in the Americas thanks to sugar. It's sad...


#10

sixpackshaker

sixpackshaker

Rob King said:
Haiti has this uncanny ability to never catch a break.
Click to expand...
That is exactly what I came here to write.

Hurricanes, Poppa Doc and Baby Doc Duvalier, Aristide, AIDS, Civil War, worst poverty in the West and now a major earthquake... What the hell did they ever do to piss off the universe?


#11



Iaculus

/christ on a bike, that looks messy. Best of luck to them, I sez.


#12

bhamv3

bhamv3

Yeah, best of luck and best wishes to them.

I think I'll skip buying Assassin's Creed 2 and donate the money to Haiti instead.


#13

fade

fade

Geologically, it's a very strange place for a quake. Particularly one of that magnitude. The aftershocks have been rather significant, too.

EDIT: No, sorry, I take that back. I had forgotten the Caribbean plate. That's embarrassing.


#14

Rob King

Rob King

North_Ranger said:
*deep sigh* Sorry, just couldn't help it. As part of my thesis, I've been reading about Toussaint L'Ouverture and how Saint-Domingue (that was to become Haiti) used to be one of the richest places in the Americas thanks to sugar. It's sad...
Click to expand...
It's actually retarded. I never realized how significant Hait has been in world history until I started actively researching it. They pulled off the first and only successful slave revolt in modern history, became the world's first black republic, and were the second nation in the new world to declare independance, right after the USA. They fought out the French, Spanish, and to a lesser extent the English, and depending on how you look at current events, are currently struggling against the influence of America. After they gained their freedom, Haitian militants spread throughout the caribbean and Latin America, eventually helping liberate half a dozen other nations, including Venezuela and what would eventually become Columbia. When France's territory in Africa began to self-govern, Haitian nationals extended a helping hand, even though their own country was probably in even worse shape than the countries they were helping.

I was in Port Au Prince in 2007 during their flag day cellebrations. Despite the shitty hand they've been dealt over and over and over and over and over, they're still proud as all hell. And they have every right to be.


#15

fade

fade

Really?!? There are already conspiracy theories about some US Navy missile test shortly before the quake. Oh yeah. We've got quake missiles, baby.

Seriously, the energy output of a 7.0 quake is phenomenal. The largest thermonuke ever detonated achieved roughly 7.0, but its signature would be recognized almost immediately by any geoscientist with a seismograph.

Also, not sure why the title says 7.3. The USGS estimates 7.0, as does the BBC article linked in the OP. There's a huge difference, because earthquake magnitudes are logarithmic. 7.0 = 50 megatons, 7.5 = 178 megatons, etc.


#16

Dave

Dave

fade said:
Really?!? There are already conspiracy theories about some US Navy missile test shortly before the quake. Oh yeah. We've got quake missiles, baby.

Seriously, the energy output of a 7.0 quake is phenomenal. The largest thermonuke ever detonated achieved roughly 7.0, but its signature would be recognized almost immediately by any geoscientist with a seismograph.

Also, not sure why the title says 7.3. The USGS estimates 7.0, as does the BBC article linked in the OP. There's a huge difference, because earthquake magnitudes are logarithmic. 7.0 = 50 megatons, 7.5 = 178 megatons, etc.
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Fade, where did you read this?


#17

Dave

Dave

Ouch. 2 updates from CNN:

National Penitentiary in Haiti collapsed and inmates escaped, prompting worries about looting by escapees. http://bit.ly/82whW7
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Hundreds of thousands of people have died in Haiti's earthquake, the prime minister told CNN today.
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#18

Seraphyn

Seraphyn

Dave said:
Fade, where did you read this?
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Seems about right doesn't it? Wiki says: "Like the Richter scale, the MMS is logarithmic; on the scale, an earthquake one number higher is approximately thirty-one times (the square root of 1,000) more powerful (for example, 7.0 is about thirty-one times the power of 6.0)."
So there being a huge difference between 7 and 7.3 seems right on the mark.


#19

Jay

Jay

I work with several Haitians. They are extremely upset at what has happened. Some have relatives there and have taken the day off as they are unable to reach them as their city is in complete chaos. You'd think they endured enough the last few decades. :(


#20

Dave

Dave

Seraphyn;328308][QUOTE=Dave said:
Fade, where did you read this?
Click to expand...
Seems about right doesn't it? Wiki says: "Like the Richter scale, the MMS is logarithmic; on the scale, an earthquake one number higher is approximately thirty-one times (the square root of 1,000) more powerful (for example, 7.0 is about thirty-one times the power of 6.0)."
So there being a huge difference between 7 and 7.3 seems right on the mark.[/QUOTE]

I meant about the missile. I can't find the conspiracy theory anywhere.


#21

Seraphyn

Seraphyn

Ah, I'm sure there are plenty of conspiracies around already :p

It was Al-Qaeda's Global Warming Division, I'm sure.


#22

Shakey

Shakey

:wtf:


#23

fade

fade

Seraphyn;328308][QUOTE=Dave said:
Fade, where did you read this?
Click to expand...
Seems about right doesn't it? Wiki says: "Like the Richter scale, the MMS is logarithmic; on the scale, an earthquake one number higher is approximately thirty-one times (the square root of 1,000) more powerful (for example, 7.0 is about thirty-one times the power of 6.0)."
So there being a huge difference between 7 and 7.3 seems right on the mark.[/QUOTE]

Plus there's that whole Ph.D. in geophysics thing...


#24

fade

fade

Dave, I saw it on a blog, and again on another forum...I'd have to look for the links.


#25

Hylian

Hylian

Dave;328311][QUOTE=Seraphyn;328308][QUOTE=Dave said:
Fade, where did you read this?
Click to expand...
Seems about right doesn't it? Wiki says: "Like the Richter scale, the MMS is logarithmic; on the scale, an earthquake one number higher is approximately thirty-one times (the square root of 1,000) more powerful (for example, 7.0 is about thirty-one times the power of 6.0)."
So there being a huge difference between 7 and 7.3 seems right on the mark.[/QUOTE]

I meant about the missile. I can't find the conspiracy theory anywhere.[/QUOTE]


So far all I can find is several people twittering it and a couple of blogs claiming it but so far I can't find any actual credible source of info on it.


#26



Koko

fade;328337][QUOTE=Seraphyn;328308][QUOTE=Dave said:
Fade, where did you read this?
Click to expand...
Seems about right doesn't it? Wiki says: "Like the Richter scale, the MMS is logarithmic; on the scale, an earthquake one number higher is approximately thirty-one times (the square root of 1,000) more powerful (for example, 7.0 is about thirty-one times the power of 6.0)."
So there being a huge difference between 7 and 7.3 seems right on the mark.[/QUOTE]

Plus there's that whole Ph.D. in geophysics thing...[/QUOTE]

i said that outloud to myself when i read the post heh.

Haiti has the highest % of degree holding professionals who leave the country for the purposes of getting a better job.
Trying to remember the term...like "mind migration" or something. Brain something...


#27

Dave

Dave

-heh- I hope that was a joke. Otherwise it's Brain Drain.


#28

Calleja

Calleja

I was of the idea that 7.3 shouldn't be that big of a deal in this day and age... Mexico City was hit by an 8.1 quake in the same year I was born (1985) and even the after shocks were 7.5 and 7.0... even at an impoverished country like Haiti building standards in a high quake area should take into account major earthquakes. I hope reconstructions take this in mind.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mexico_City_earthquake


#29

sixpackshaker

sixpackshaker

I don't think Haiti has building standards. Even the Presidential Palace was turned to rubble. Basic construction there is un-reinforced concrete block construction, and shanties as far as the eye can see.


#30

fade

fade

You're right in a way. Building codes go a long, long way. The 1986 San Francisco quake is often compared to a similar sized quake in Armenia the same year. 40 dead in SF, 25000 in Armenia. Then again, a 7.0 quake is very significant. Also, the problem with earthquake magnitudes is that they don't translate regionally. Magnitude is not equal to intensity, which is the amount of damage. 8.1 in hard, craton rock can be much, much, much less damaging than a 7.0 quake on soft, coastal sediment.


#31

Calleja

Calleja

Yeah, which is the case of Mexico City (it was mostly built on top of a lake, which means it's on top of sediment) and we still have the Torre Mayor which is still the tallest building in Latin America and has enough quake damping that it not only survived a 7.6 quake unscathed, people that were on it didn't even FEEL the quake (this was mentioned in the wiki article I linked in my previous post, even). And this is in a third world country, mind you, I'm not comparing Haiti to England here.


#32

Dave

Dave

http://bigcountryhomepage.com/content/fulltext/?cid=209002

Pat Robertson: Haiti made a pact with the Devil.

:facepalm:


#33

Rob King

Rob King

Pat Robertson: has just re-earned a place of honor on my list of people I will punch if ever I meet them.

As for 7.3 vs. 7.0, I think I recall reading 7.3 on the BBC last night.

And with regards to building codes: it'll be a long time before anything can be enforced. Just last year a school collapsed under it's own weight killing a few dozen children. The 'missionary' who had built the school had been raising money, but then cutting corners by avoiding what code did technically exist, and just kept building floor after floor after floor onto his building, to a grisly result.

Fact is, any new code that they introduce will have to be adhered to voluntarily. There are slums in the city that the UN can't even go into. There would be no way to enforce it.


#34

fade

fade

Calleja said:
Yeah, which is the case of Mexico City (it was mostly built on top of a lake, which means it's on top of sediment) and we still have the Torre Mayor which is still the tallest building in Latin America and has enough quake damping that it not only survived a 7.6 quake unscathed, people that were on it didn't even FEEL the quake (this was mentioned in the wiki article I linked in my previous post, even). And this is in a third world country, mind you, I'm not comparing Haiti to England here.
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I knew you'd make the lake point, and you're right. I read up on the quake. Mexico City city reported "major damage" from the quake. According to your link, 412 collapsed buildings. One really important thing to note, too, is that the quake focus was 350 km away from Mexico city, whereas the quake that hit yesterday was only 15 km from Port-Au-Prince. Not disputing your point though--building codes should be updated. The complaint will be the expense associated with it.


#35

Calleja

Calleja

Of course, that's my point, the 8.1 earthquake was such a fucking devastation 25 years ago that ever since we've been known to just hold up our coffee cups to avoid them spilling while 7.6 quakes rumble through. So seeing a similar intensity completely destroy an entire city (and with it much of the country) in 2010 just boggles my mind.


#36

LittleSin

LittleSin

My friends wife is in Porta Prince visiting relatives...no one has been able to get a hold of her.

Not good, right?


#37

Rob King

Rob King

Press release from the Salvation Army.

It's so strange. All of the facilities they refer to in that release, I've been to. So eerie.

Also, a report posted on the Salvation Army's Canada & Bermuda Territory website.

And Sin, that's terrible. :( Hopefully your friend is okay.


#38

Dave

Dave

LittleSin said:
My friends wife is in Porta Prince visiting relatives...no one has been able to get a hold of her.

Not good, right?
Click to expand...
Oh shit, Sin. Positive thoughts to you and them.


#39

Calleja

Calleja

LittleSin said:
My friends wife is in Porta Prince visiting relatives...no one has been able to get a hold of her.

Not good, right?
Click to expand...
Don't get too worried, the communication infrastructure is so beaten and clogged that it's impossible to get a hold of most people over there, so it's probable that she's okay and just incommunicado for now. She should check in before long, keep your friend sane meanwhile, I can't imagine how awful it must be not to be able to get a hold of her yet.


#40



WolfOfOdin

I dearly hope there's a special layer of Hell for Pat Robertson to burn in when he dies.

I'll be donating my bonus check to the people of Hati today, and will raise hell if our government doesn't lend a tangible helping hand >_<


#41



Iaculus

WolfOfOdin said:
I dearly hope there's a special layer of Hell for Pat Robertson to burn in when he dies.

I'll be donating my bonus check to the people of Hati today, and will raise hell if our government doesn't lend a tangible helping hand >_<
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Gods, I hope that doesnae end up like the tsunami mess. You know, government corruption paring off most of the good stuff. I know it's not the most prosperous country, but just how dirty is Haiti?

Also, best wishes to Sin's friend.


#42

Rob King

Rob King

Iaculus;328475][QUOTE=WolfOfOdin said:
I know it's not the most prosperous country, but just how dirty is Haiti?
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When I went into a neighborhood while I was down there, there was literally shit in the streets. In Port Au Prince, we drove over a bridge that spanned a small section of river, almost like a narrow canal. The garbage was so deep, there was no sign of water.



To be fair, they did try and keep the garbage contained, like the pile in this photo.



The beach we went to was covered in garbage.



More garbage on the beach.



Just because it seemed appropriate.

Didn't get many pictures of garbage in Port Au Prince, because it was densely populated and we didn't want to insult anyone by taking pictures of all the refuse. But it was bad.

Don't get me wrong: there was no garbage where people didn't want garbage. At or around the catholic churches, for example, the streets were cleaned up and you could be walking through any developed country as far as you knew. But as soon as you walk into poorer neighborhoods, there was garbage everywhere.


#43



Iaculus

I meant metaphorically, as in government corruption. Was wondering what percentage of the donations are likely to mysteriously vanish.

Not an excuse to fail to help out, just summat to consider.


#44

Rob King

Rob King

Iaculus said:
I meant metaphorically, as in government corruption. Was wondering what percentage of the donations are likely to mysteriously vanish.

Not an excuse to fail to help out, just summat to consider.
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Oh, yeah. Definitely don't give money to the government. I know that that's what most governments would do/probably has done. But on the whole, I think that's probably the wrong way to go.

Rant about Government Aid inside:
I know when talking about Zimbabwe, a missionary friend highlighted that a lot of aid dollars go missing when they are handled by government officials. I'm sure it's either very similar or exactly the same for Haiti. As a result, working in the government becomes the most lucrative job in the country, and it quickly becomes cutthroat and corrupted by people trying to get their hands into the stream of dollars. The best thing that governments could do for nations like Zimbabwe (and Haiti) are to make industry the most lucrative job in the country. That way, all the greedy sons of bitches chase that prospect like moths to the lamp, and leave the government in the hands of people who actually care about the state of the nation.

Aid organizations like the Red Cross, Oxfam, or the Salvation Army are the way to go. Unfortunately, every cent of every dollar might not trickle all the way down to the ground even in those aid organizations, but that's just the reality of operating in a third world country like that.

Plug for The Salvation Army inside:
If I might speak a bit on the Salvation Army, our operations in Haiti aren't solely food programs and aid efforts. The biggest thing we have been doing is building schools, since the government funded education system reaches only 15% of the population - and only the richest 15% at that. The next biggest thing we've been doing is providing loans for people to start their own businesses, or employing Haitians in Salvation Army-built businesses, like the bakery I posted a photo of in the pictures thread.

I can't speak for the other organizations, but I know that the Salvation Army has been there for 60 years already, and will be in Haiti long after this earthquake thing is over. There is an increased short-term need because of this natural disaster, but the 'Army is also committed to solving the long-term problems that Haiti has been struggling with long before January 12th.

And as for the corruption that money brings, there has to be an element of that even in the Salvation Army, but the people I met while I was down there were very honest people, and I have been assured (because this is the sort of thing I worry about as well) that there are safeguards built in to their operation. Salvation Army officers are paid the minimum possible living wage for whatever region they live in, so it's not quite like it's a very lucrative position to chase. Still, it is a living wage, which is more than many make. But before they become paid employees of the Salvation Army, there is a two year training program that happens in the Kingston, Jamaica, where they generally weed out those unsavory characters. But even if the weeding process fails and someone unsavory is given command of a Salvation Army facility, if the appropriate funds don't reach the community for programming there are unpaid personnel attached to each initiative who will get word back to Headquarters if they suspect something underhanded. I was told that it has happened occasionally, but it was taken care of quickly.

But that's just the reality of operating in a country with 80% unemployment.


#45

sixpackshaker

sixpackshaker

For a decent eye opener on Haiti Watch/Read The Serpent and the Rainbow.

Your scrotum will hate you for it though.

The story takes place before even more of the corruption or AIDS hit the nation though.

Even before the Aristide Necktie became a common way to force social control. The necktie was where you take an insurgent/opposition leader/or just some one the president did not like, and drop him in the middle of the street. Where the police would hog-tie him, force him on his knees, put a tire around his neck, fill it with gasoline, and strike a match.... Aristide was the president that the USA put back in power because he was the last one elected at the time. Needles to say, his harsh methods were what lead to the revolt.


#46

Draxo

Draxo

Goddamn.. this is a tragedy.

And those conspiracy assholes need a punch in the teeth. I say this as someone who's normally a bit of a conspiracy nut on certain issues.

Hundreds of thousands of people die / lose loved ones, and they start bitching about conspiracies and their government before the dust even settles and while people are still trapped in the rubble? What is the point? Can;t they use that energy to like.. start sending money or supplies to charity / rescue efforts?

grah


#47

Rob King

Rob King

sixpackshaker said:
For a decent eye opener on Haiti Watch/Read The Serpent and the Rainbow.
Click to expand...
Do not watch, read. The book is a significant work on Haitian Voodoo. The movie is a cheap horror/thriller flick loosely inspired by the book, which makes orphans cry.

Also, I just got a call from the local CBC news crew. They want me to sit down for a brief interview about my time in Haiti in 2007. I'll see if I can post it here once it's done.


#48

Shakey

Shakey

I don't think it's been mentioned yet, but if you want an easy way to donate to the Red Cross you can send a $10 donation by texting ‘Haiti’ to 90999. It charges it to your cell phone bill.


#49

Rob King

Rob King

Salvation Army's Flickr Photostream of the Haiti Earthquake


#50

LittleSin

LittleSin

UPDATE: Friends wife is okay. She's trying to get back into the Dominican right now but the boarder is crap.

She so upset though...she's been trying to get into Canada for two years. She was very close to be approved but the immigration office is one of the things that collapsed in the earthquake. :( That sucks bad.


#51

Rob King

Rob King

I have read that in light of the recent earthquake, the USA is making it easier for Haitians to immigrate. I would imagine that Canada is doing something similar.

Hopefully it will be a boon in your friend's case.


#52

Espy

Espy

My business held a 2 hour flash fundraiser the other morning for the Red Cross. It was really cool and we raised some cash for them, hope it gets their in time, I know the REd Cross has had issues in the past with financial mismanagement so hopefully everything is ok.


#53

Rob King

Rob King

A note about these text message donations: they are a great idea and I hope more happens with them in the future, but it takes several weeks for the funds to clear. Credit card donations online, if you can do it, can take only a few hours to get into the appropriate Red Cross, Salvation Army, Samaritan's Purse etc. funds.

Several mobile carriers have expressed the intention to expedite the text-message-donation process in the last few days, but as far as I have been informed, that hasn't happened yet.

Also, just received word today that the town I was in while I visited Haiti in 2007, Petit Goave, was actually the worst hit city in the country, tremor-wise. It's not as densely populated or built up as Port Au Prince, so I expect that it held up better, but it is certainly disheartening news. To make matters worse, though, Petit Goave has received no aid since the earthquake: nothing has been able to make it from Port Au Prince, due to both road conditions and the massive need in the capitol.


#54



Kitty Sinatra

Rob King said:
I have read that in light of the recent earthquake, the USA is making it easier for Haitians to immigrate. I would imagine that Canada is doing something similar.

Hopefully it will be a boon in your friend's case.
Click to expand...
Indeed, just heard on the news that our gov't is making it easier to sponsor family members.


#55

Dave

Dave

A guy with a iPhone uses the light, connection and apps to save his life. Pretty amazing.

http://www.wired.com/gadgetlab/2010/01/haiti-survivor-iphone/


#56

fade

fade

Well, there goes any hope HTC had...


#57

sixpackshaker

sixpackshaker

I just wonder how he recharged his phone after being on the internet for 30 minutes.


#58

Rob King

Rob King

From This Hour Has 22 Minutes a Canadian comedy troupe comes some serious commentary:



Also, less serious but still damning:

http://www.cbc.ca/video/#/Shows/22_Minutes/Clips/ID=1402932298

Let me know if that link doesn't work for non-Canadians.


#59

Dave

Dave

New update on the missionaries who were charged with trying to transport orphans across the border into the Dominican Republic...

ALL THIRTY-THREE KIDS have been returned to their parents. That's right, NONE of the kids were orphans and ALL of them have been returned to their parents. Also, the lawyer representing the missionaries turns out to be himself wanted in El Salvadore and the United States for Human trafficking.


#60

Calleja

Calleja

Those motherfuckers. Goddammit.

See? Bullet to the head, quick, humane, better for humanity.

Taking kids... ugh.


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