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http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-12215915

Interesting idea, but the only thing I'm worry about is the "lead car" can be a butt hole and decides to "slow down" for everyone.

Oh, I can foresee so many scenarions where this could get fucked up, ranging from human dickery to suicidal moose...

In Houston some of us call those wolf-packs. 12 or so cars thundering down the left hand lane at speeds up to 90 mph, with only feet in between the following cars.

sixpackshaker said:

In Houston some of us call those wolf-packs. 12 or so cars thundering down the left hand lane at speeds up to 90 mph, with only feet in between the following cars.

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Sounds like people vying for the Darwin Award...

I've thought about this idea on and off for years (from an engineering standpoint). There are significant problems to overcome, but it would be very efficient, and would be a sort of stepping stone to "smart roads".

I doubt we're going to have it any time soon though.

20 years ago I imagined the same roads we travel on now (actually, specifically highways) but with some sort of sensors - magnetic road implants I was thinking at the time) that would allow the cars to negotiate where they were, who was in front of them, to the side, rear, etc, so essentially the cars could drive themselves ... with GPS and other technologies, we have the basis for that idea available.. but taking into account lunatic drivers, I think it's far far far from a GOOD idea, lol!

I must not be reading this right, or missing something because this seems like a colossally bad idea.

With improved car mounted radar, and the other tech mentioned in other posts here, it is quite feasible. Just as long as the guy in the back has the right to hit the gas if the guy in front drives like an old man on Sunday... I'd go for it.

I remember seeing something like this on Nova (or similar show) testing trains of a handful of identical cars all slaved together in lockstep, but these were still independently controlled and just used RADAR to determine the position of the car ahead and whether to speed up/slow down to match it (at hundreds of times the speed of a human driver). I remember thinking that there were advantages (wolf pack/peloton) as far as efficiency of road usage, but I also remember thinking that there could be problems for things like black ice or other road condition (basically, anything that would frustrate the automated system's attempts to maintain pace and place).

--Patrick

The major problem that I can see right away is, how in the heck do you disconnect from the train when you have separate exits/places to go? I mean, not everyone lives and works in the same place.

Im thinking more of the lines of girlfriend/wive/kids saying "I have to go pee,please pull over."

Once you tell the automated system that you are leaving the train, you would take control of the car and change lanes. The car behind you would sync up with the car in front.

Same thing with joining a train in the middle. You tell the system you want to join, it talks to the cars to the side of you, they provide space, and you merge.

Right now cars have radar and laser systems for measuring distance to the car ahead and providing better cruise control, but you still have to steer, and you don't know what the other car is going to do until they start doing it. In the car train all the computers would be chatting, and every car in the line would know the instant any driver touched their brake pedal or the steering wheel, and they would allow space for independent movement.

This kind of system, however, would require 360 degree active collision avoidance. If, at any time, something happened where communications were broken or jammed, or vehicles not part of the train appeared to be on a collision course with the train, the people in the cars could not react quickly enough to avoid collisions. However, with 360 degree radar and laser object detection, the car itself can attempt to avoid as much of the crash as possible.

I came in expecting this:



I always hated being the car in front.

I must be one of the only people left on this planet that actually enjoys driving.

It's an interesting idea, but as others have pointed out... there are a LOT of problems that need to be addressed before this sort of thing is even remotely safe.

Dave said:

I always hated being the car in front.

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I prefer to be the car in front, as long as the guy behind you is not following too close. Being the guy in the back, you don't get a good view of the road, and then you have a short sight distance when a string of cars come to a halt.

I would love that. I hate driving.

The main thing I worry about is that the car in front could have any number of issues. Can you imagine you taking your hands off the wheel to actually READ the paper or a book. I don't know about you, but when I'm reading, I'm totally engrossed in the book/material I'm reading (this is why I usually don't read any billboards, I let my wife do the reading while I'm driving) so.... lets say the "nut" in front decides to "play a little" that few seconds could make a difference in taking control or crashing. The brain already take a few seconds to respond WHILE you are driving (so we are told in driving school i.e. reaction time and it is worst while drunk) can you imagine when you are not even paying attention to the road and then have to take control?

I think the "better" idea would be sensors on the road and GPS and the car will navigate via THAT. Detecting the cars around it, checking location via GPS and sensors on the road to make sure you are on the right side etc etc.

The only system that will ever truly work and be (mostly) free from tampering is a computer that can process road and situational data just like we do as humans while having a GPS connection as a backup system. The car needs to be able to fully be able to drive itself (including emergency maneuvers) otherwise there will be catastrophic accidents from these new features.

I don't know about you guys, but with the plethora of sensor glitches I see cropping up in new cars that can render the vehicle practically undriveable I do not trust a car that is operating based on some invisible sensor grid, radar imaging or satellite telemetry. I'm really picturing some guy in his car reading a newspaper and drinking coffee while a failed sensor feeds incorrect data into the vehicle's driving adjustments as it drifts into a ditch or oncoming traffic causing a spectacular crash.

Azurephoenix said:

The only system that will ever truly work and be (mostly) free from tampering is a computer that can process road and situational data just like we do as humans while having a GPS connection as a backup system. The car needs to be able to fully be able to drive itself (including emergency maneuvers) otherwise there will be catastrophic accidents from these new features.

I don't know about you guys, but with the plethora of sensor glitches I see cropping up in new cars that can render the vehicle practically undriveable I do not trust a car that is operating based on some invisible sensor grid, radar imaging or satellite telemetry. I'm really picturing some guy in his car reading a newspaper and drinking coffee while a failed sensor feeds incorrect data into the vehicle's driving adjustments as it drifts into a ditch or oncoming traffic causing a spectacular crash.

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Heh... basically we are looking to something of a level of AI with a tons of backup system. Heck, even the "best human" drivers get into an accident one time or another.

Chibibar said:

Heh... basically we are looking to something of a level of AI with a tons of backup system. Heck, even the "best human" drivers get into an accident one time or another.

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You're absolutely right... but... generally we are taught to leave distance between eachother and other safety rules to compensate for certain situations where a massive car pileup would ensue from one car doing something out of specification.

In this car train example... you have all kinds of different cars with very different handling and braking characteristics driving closely bunched with very little room for error. Let's say the front car is something like a sports coupe with high performance tires, stiffer suspension and better brakes than average... and the second car is your run of the mill sedan and the third vehicle is a large truck with a heavy load. Even with computer reaction times using active radar it is unlikely that the cars following the lead car will be able to avoid a collision which could probably have been avoided with proper following distance.

Dave said:

I came in expecting this:

I always hated being the car in front.

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Actual photo of Dave being in a wreck.

That's why old farts shouldn't be allowed to drive...

Azurephoenix said:

You're absolutely right... but... generally we are taught to leave distance between eachother and other safety rules to compensate for certain situations where a massive car pileup would ensue from one car doing something out of specification.

In this car train example... you have all kinds of different cars with very different handling and braking characteristics driving closely bunched with very little room for error. Let's say the front car is something like a sports coupe with high performance tires, stiffer suspension and better brakes than average... and the second car is your run of the mill sedan and the third vehicle is a large truck with a heavy load. Even with computer reaction times using active radar it is unlikely that the cars following the lead car will be able to avoid a collision which could probably have been avoided with proper following distance.

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Yea. But here is something to think about. To have such a system work, the cars would have to communicate with each other (i.e. send at least some data to each other like weight class, breaks, load of the car) some people are scared sharing email, much less their car "status" to another car

(Conspiracy theory side) heck! we can go even one step further that a car/ad machine can send data back and tell the owner that they need new tires and should go to Sal's shop which is around the corner

Don't even get me started on the conspiracy theory side of things... (like how there are rumours of trying to get new cars to broadcast their emissions data and speed information).

I don't think packing the cars close together like that is ever going to be a smart idea. If they want to do that they might as well use a real train. Even with strong AI it's just not a good idea.

What interests me the most is whether they will be able to develop a computer controlled car that will be able to outperform professional drivers on a closed course circuit. Once that happens I guess I'll have to side with the computer driver nerds but I really don't see that happening any time soon.

makare said:

I would love that. I hate driving.

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Hisssssss!!!!!

http://www.snopes.com/autos/techno/cruise.asp

--Patrick