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I'm curious. If you were a professor, would you ever consider leaving? The job is hard to get into, and it's full of perks, not least of which is complete freedom.

Here's my story: My field is quite lucrative. I am well aware of this fact, and I have purposely avoided going into the applied industrial part of my science because I find the work kind of dull and repetitive. Not to mention somewhat morally repugnant. But my own students, spouting my words and presenting my work, leave out of here with no experience signing contracts making often more than double what I do. Sometimes with signing bonuses.

Well, it so happens that a company is expanding in my particular niche specialty within the broader science, and I interviewed with them. Given my experience, I was quoted a rather large number. I love academia, but the pay is low, and summers are rough (I had to ask my bank to defer a house payment last summer because I couldn't gather sufficient summer salary). I'd miss teaching and freedom, but money is more important that people want to admit. I also don't care for the city the job is located in, but that's almost unavoidable in my field.

Oh to cap it all off, when I went to interview, they introduced me to the new hires, who were all trying to catch up on their background knowledge of this niche area. They had this document pulled up on the screen of their computer. I recognized the equations, and I casually commented on it. "Oh," they say, "It's a doctoral thesis, and it's very well explained". Waitaminute, I think. "Who is the author?" "Some guy named Jack something" I was like, "Yeah...that's my dissertation." How's that for coincidence/first impression, since the hiring manager was standing right next to me?

Anyway, I'm really torn about all this. What would you do?

Gotta make that money. Get your money strait and go back to teaching when you can be an old crazy professor who tells stories all semester long.

Could you take the job in industry and work as an adjunct professor? Or does that run up against "not enough hours in the day"?

Tough call. I'm not in a field that has that kind of opportunity. I think I would find joy in my work even if there was no teaching. Teaching is a love/hate kind of thing for me and I would certainly miss it. But I think I might very well take the leap. I've always had the opinion that if you worked hard enough, you could change directions again in the future. It wouldn't be exactly easy to return to academia but it would be pretty doable.

fade said:

I'm curious. If you were a professor, would you ever consider leaving?

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I would, but that's because I'm not interested in being a professor. I think you gotta sit down and decide what is going to make you happy, then get on that train and ride it.

Sounds like you love being a professor. Money is nice, but at the end of the day you need to be happy and stimulated by what you do. If you aren't making enough money to make ends meet, you might have to choose a position that's not as fulfilling. But if you're doing well enough, happiness can't be easily bought, so getting money at the cost of happiness isn't a wise choice.

Keep in mind that you might enjoy working in the industry, especially if the company is good. If you think you'd get along with the people you work with, you might have as much fun as you are now, though you would be restricted in what you can really do.

But there is a great feeling when something you have worked on actually goes out the door as a product.

If you are just in academia for the freedom and perks, and you're driven by challenge or money or seeing a product you worked on go to market, then leave and go find them. Or become that well paid industry figure who guest speaks, lectures and possibly works as an adjunct. If you want to keep shaping those young minds as a profession or are involved in some inspiring research or truly love what you do, stay because no amount can replace that.

Are you tenured? Because if you're not, I would say take the job, make your money, and come back at some later date. Wouldn't even have to think about it.

If you are tenured, then that puts a different spin on things, such as do you lose tenure if you leave? Are there circumstances where you can keep it while working full-time? Do the benefits you get out of your tenured position outweigh the (supposedly) more secure financial future you are eligible, and apparently very well suited, for?

Is there anything that prevents you from re-entering academia a few years down the road? Would it be possible to go make some good money for a while, then come back to the university life?

If it were me it would depend entirely on how bad the money situation is. If you're in a serious bind right now and need to bump up your income, I would take the industry job. If you can get by without leaving the job you actually have a passion for, I would stay.

I think the real question is how easily could you go back to being a professor once the extra money are no longer important...

fade said:

I'm curious. If you were a professor, would you ever consider leaving? The job is hard to get into, and it's full of perks, not least of which is complete freedom.

Here's my story: My field is quite lucrative. I am well aware of this fact, and I have purposely avoided going into the applied industrial part of my science because I find the work kind of dull and repetitive. Not to mention somewhat morally repugnant. But my own students, spouting my words and presenting my work, leave out of here with no experience signing contracts making often more than double what I do. Sometimes with signing bonuses.

Well, it so happens that a company is expanding in my particular niche specialty within the broader science, and I interviewed with them. Given my experience, I was quoted a rather large number. I love academia, but the pay is low, and summers are rough (I had to ask my bank to defer a house payment last summer because I couldn't gather sufficient summer salary). I'd miss teaching and freedom, but money is more important that people want to admit. I also don't care for the city the job is located in, but that's almost unavoidable in my field.

Oh to cap it all off, when I went to interview, they introduced me to the new hires, who were all trying to catch up on their background knowledge of this niche area. They had this document pulled up on the screen of their computer. I recognized the equations, and I casually commented on it. "Oh," they say, "It's a doctoral thesis, and it's very well explained". Waitaminute, I think. "Who is the author?" "Some guy named Jack something" I was like, "Yeah...that's my dissertation." How's that for coincidence/first impression, since the hiring manager was standing right next to me?

Anyway, I'm really torn about all this. What would you do?

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I'm doing that this summer. Going back into industry as a principle scientist at a local company. It's a 15 minute commute, and they're pretty much doubling my salary. I'm not looking back.

Academia is fun, but the pay definitely sucks. I've been kinda jumping around in the biology field. I started as a microbiologist and slowly kinda just ended up purely in biochemistry.

Just be careful about what company you go to. I first worked as a microbiologist/molecular biologist at GSK, then I got a job at U Penn which collaborated my translational research with drug studies at GSK... until the fucking department went under in 2008/9. GSK and Merck, for example, are notorious for constant business acquisitions and mergers that cause the infrastructure of their smaller satellites to shift around quite often, which equals layoffs every 4 or 5 years. I've been teaching community college for a year now, and it's ok. The pay is pretty crappy, so I consult on the side (consulting pays really well, btw, but it's not consistent). I had this fear of going back into industry due to biotech's unstable nature, but this new place has told me they never lay off. Makes sense, they're a biotech diagnostic service based company. No matter how bad the economy gets, places like Merck are always going to need to meet FDA approvals via third party testing.

Working for the man has its perks too, but you definitely will have solid deadlines that must be met, so the work can sometimes be overwhelming. Bottom line that drove me to accepting an industry position again was my family. I've got two kids and one on the way to take care of. The work make be repetitive at times, but I use that to channel my creativity in other forms (currently writing my first book). Academia would be a great place to stay if I could score a prestigious tenure position at a high end university, making like 150K+ a year. But lets be real here, I have better odds of being a rock star, or professional athlete.

I say you go for it. It can't hurt you. If you want to go back to academia when you're a bit older and sick of the rat race, I'm sure any university would be willing to take you over some wet-behind the years post-doc.
Added at: 07:39

@Li3n said:

I think the real question is how easily could you go back to being a professor once the extra money are no longer important...

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Probably not too hard actually. My uncle recently retired from a chemist position at an industry job. He's got his Masters and about 30 years of NMR, IR, and UV experience under his belt; managed to score a nice, cushy retirement job at a university teaching chemistry and running their labs. He works about 30 hours a week. The money is probably just fine combined with his other retirement funds.

Also see this thread: https://www.halforums.com/threads/im-bored-with-work-and-life-in-general.24569/

That is the question. Are you tenure? If you are, that is make the decision even harder. I do love my job and academia environment is easier (IT wise) than the real world. The pays is not as good, but the benefits (for now) out weights what the private sector can give. I do have a lot of freedom of what I can do and the perks ARE nice ( a lot more "free vacation" since they are school vacation like x-mas and thanksgiving that I don't have to use my accrued holiday)

Would I go? If I was a professor? I would say if you could adjunct it, I would. In this economy and rarity of your position out there, you need a safety net to fall back on. That would be MY decision if it was me.

Let me guess, the city that you don't want to go to is Houston....

sixpackshaker said:

Let me guess, the city that you don't want to go to is Houston....

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You got it. I just can't see myself in that ugly urban sprawl. I went there on Tuesday, and it was like bad memories rushing back (lived nearby for 6 years). One of the major impetuses for looking outside my current position was location. I haven't decided if I would find Houston a better place than this one or not.

As far as the tenure questions go, I'm not, but I only have 2 years left on the tenure track, and I don't anticipate any difficulty making tenure. At that point, my salary will go up significantly, but still well below the numbers that were thrown at me the other day. If I made full professor, the numbers would be equivalent, but a) not everyone makes full prof, and there's no set formula for doing so, and b) by the time that happens, who knows what my salary could be up to in industry. But like I said, money's not everything. (Tenure's not either. As of recent Louisiana legislation, tenure now buys you 3 months. The magical bulletproof shell of the 1950s is long gone. 3 months is more than many jobs, but considering the application process for a new academic position can take half a year, and the jobs only post in the fall, that's bad.)

I do have some industry experience--I'm not totally naive of the workaday world. I wasn't a fan. It wasn't the deadlines or the drive to make money, because believe me, those things are there in academia, too. Esp. this day and age. In fact, since I have no boss per se, I have to handle even more of that stuff as a professor than I did in industry. It was more the corporate attitude. It felt restricting, and my co-workers all seemed to be company men (or women).

I'm asking for advice because one of my biggest character flaws is the tendency to view the grass as spectacularly greener on the other side.

Just strike urban sprawl off your list, you will find that in any town that you are likely to find a corporate job.

Houston does have a lot to offer. Yes there are some really ugly areas, but then there is a lot of trees and wildlife around and other interesting areas about town.

The biggest choice for you to face is the balance of corporate vs. academic culture and pay. How much freedom are you willing to give up to make more money?

fade said:

You got it. I just can't see myself in that ugly urban sprawl. I went there on Tuesday, and it was like bad memories rushing back (lived nearby for 6 years). One of the major impetuses for looking outside my current position was location. I haven't decided if I would find Houston a better place than this one or not.

As far as the tenure questions go, I'm not, but I only have 2 years left on the tenure track, and I don't anticipate any difficulty making tenure. At that point, my salary will go up significantly, but still well below the numbers that were thrown at me the other day. If I made full professor, the numbers would be equivalent, but a) not everyone makes full prof, and there's no set formula for doing so, and b) by the time that happens, who knows what my salary could be up to in industry. But like I said, money's not everything. (Tenure's not either. As of recent Louisiana legislation, tenure now buys you 3 months. The magical bulletproof shell of the 1950s is long gone. 3 months is more than many jobs, but considering the application process for a new academic position can take half a year, and the jobs only post in the fall, that's bad.)

I do have some industry experience--I'm not totally naive of the workaday world. I wasn't a fan. It wasn't the deadlines or the drive to make money, because believe me, those things are there in academia, too. Esp. this day and age. In fact, since I have no boss per se, I have to handle even more of that stuff as a professor than I did in industry. It was more the corporate attitude. It felt restricting, and my co-workers all seemed to be company men (or women).

I'm asking for advice because one of my biggest character flaws is the tendency to view the grass as spectacularly greener on the other side.

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Heh. Same here.

Do you have TRS or something similar? (not sure where you are Fade) one of the main reason I am still where I am cause I have about 10 years invested in TRS and none in Social Security. If I leave now, I lose my benefits.

Yes, I do. And it's one of the big arguments for staying in Louisiana. The retirement package is awesome. It's guaranteed to the day I die, and it's fairly significant.

fade said:

Yes, I do. And it's one of the big arguments for staying in Louisiana. The retirement package is awesome. It's guaranteed to the day I die, and it's fairly significant.

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Same with TRS. It is awesome once I hit the magical age + years of service.

Professor Dumblefade said:

I'm asking for advice because one of my biggest character flaws is the tendency to view the grass as spectacularly greener on the other side.

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Mathias said:

Heh. Same here.

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I think that's a pretty common trait. I suffer from the exact opposite. A feeling that things aren't better anywhere else so there's no reason to move.

Adammon said:

I think that's a pretty common trait. I suffer from the exact opposite. A feeling that things aren't better anywhere else so there's no reason to move.

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I feel like I'm in a decent position but that it could be made better. I guess I'm a "water my own lawn to make it greener" kind of guy.

MindDetective said:

I feel like I'm in a decent position but that it could be made better. I guess I'm a "water my own lawn to make it greener" kind of guy.

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Hmm, maybe that's more appropriate to my frame of mind. My sphere of influence is pretty limited so why not use it to do what I can instead of worrying about everyone and everything else.

Chibi, TRS is a very, very good point. Short of high-risk investment, there aren't many better retirement systems.

One of the things I keep coming back to is that this move doesn't settle Reason to Move #1: Location.

Go one weekend and drag your kids through the zoo, children's museum, art galleries, Bayou Bend, then hit a Broadway Roadshow with the wife... Houston is a hell of a town. You just have to get off the interstates to see it.

fade said:

Chibi, TRS is a very, very good point. Short of high-risk investment, there aren't many better retirement systems.

One of the things I keep coming back to is that this move doesn't settle Reason to Move #1: Location.

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I know. I mean once I hit my rule of 80 (age + years of service) I can retire and have the avg of my top 5 pay at 70% (I will have at least 25 years in so it is around that) for the rest of my life. Granted I don't get the cost of living adjustment, but that is what my 403B suppose supplement

Fade, move to Houston, I'm an hour away from there, we can hang out and shoot guns. My dad has 40 acres if you like to hunt, and the beach is nearby!
Added at: 19:27
If you want a "small town" there are plenty close to houston, heck the town I grew up in is about 45 minutes away with a population of less than 5,000 the city I live in now is close to the same distance and it has about 30,000 residents and one of the most parks per resident in the city than in most any other Texas city.

I lived near Houston for 6 years. That's where the deep since of foreboding comes from

We should get together n do some shootin' one day!

Okay, so I went back for another interview today. I met the CEO and the CTO. The CTO was actually a classmate of my PhD advisor, so we shared a pedigree in a way. Anyway, this is a small company, so the CEO is actually a scientist with expertise in my research specialty (as is the CTO obviously). It went down way differently than I expected. I presented some of my research on the 2010 oil spill, and they were highly impressed. Wait, let me back up. I was interviewing for what in the oil biz is called a "service position", which is code for a "highly trained monkey". I kid, but it means someone who basically does repetitive work that requires a lot of expertise. In this case, it was interpreting a specific type of data for oil. This is a relatively new approach that I (not bragging here, just the facts) am one of the few experts in the world on. Anyway. It's a bit beneath my training level, and I've been questioned repeatedly on whether I would be happy just doing services.

Whoo. Anyway, this company has an R&D side, too, but I was told they had no openings. So I presented my stuff, and they told me that they just bought some software written by an old internship mentor of mine. It turns out some of my code is in this software, so I know it well. When they heard my talk, and that I had actually worked on the software they were purchasing, the CEO basically said, "No, you shouldn't be in services. I think we could find you and R&D position, and even get 3 or so scientists working for you as your team." I was totally surprised.

TL;DR: I went in for the interview, presented my research, and impressed them enough that they offered me a higher position with a team of my own.

Wow!

sixpackshaker said:

Just strike urban sprawl off your list, you will find that in any town that you are likely to find a corporate job.

Houston does have a lot to offer. Yes there are some really ugly areas, but then there is a lot of trees and wildlife around and other interesting areas about town.

The biggest choice for you to face is the balance of corporate vs. academic culture and pay. How much freedom are you willing to give up to make more money?

Click to expand...

Hmm, I don't think I agree. I didn't find the strip mall pervasion that exists in Houston in Boston when I lived there. I don't see it in SF or NYC, either. I think it's a feature of Houston and LA that has been noted by more than just me. The other cities are big, and wide spread, but without that strip mall, big parking lot, long smoggy road look that I don't like.


...


Anyway, this is tearing me up. I want to talk to my university colleagues about it, but this whole thing was unfortunately coincident with spring break, so I can't. That gives me a lovely week of stress to look forward to.

So, are you looking for advice, or just bragging?

You're right. Next time, I'll just leave out the details and ask for advice with no supporting information. This question was about which job is better for me, so talking about how each affects me in both positive and negative ways is unavoidable. I'm sorry you see that as bragging. The short and simple of it is that this job that offered me a lot offered me even more on the second visit, which makes an already difficult decision (the one I was asking for advice about) even more difficult.

Wow. that is a tough position to be in. They offer you a team in the R&D department? awesome. What is the shelf life of that in private sector? (i.e. are they the first to go in time of money crunch?) how stable is the company? I know it is small and new, but what do you feel about it?

What are you backup plan? what if the company folds (private company usually do) can you come back to the university? can you still teach part time online or something? (that way you still keep a safety net)

if you were to ask this question 10 years ago, I would say go for it with both feet in BUT with the current state of the U.S. economy, you gotta have a backup plan in case this "really awesome position" decides to fall apart on you say 6 months from now.

Also the reason I ask cause like you said, it is a very specialize field so it is a pretty much a nitch market right? that makes it harder to find a new job later right? (that is a question since I know nothing about your job/position market feasibility)

fade said:

my own students, spouting my words and presenting my work, leave out of here with no experience signing contracts making often more than double what I do. Sometimes with signing bonuses.

Well, it so happens that a company is expanding in my particular niche specialty within the broader science, and I interviewed with them. Given my experience, I was quoted a rather large number.
---
They had this document pulled up on the screen of their computer. I recognized the equations, and I casually commented on it. "Oh," they say, "It's a doctoral thesis, and it's very well explained". Waitaminute, I think. "Who is the author?" "Some guy named Jack something" I was like, "Yeah...that's my dissertation." How's that for coincidence/first impression, since the hiring manager was standing right next to me?
---
The CTO was actually a classmate of my PhD advisor, so we shared a pedigree in a way. Anyway, this is a small company, so the CEO is actually a scientist with expertise in my research specialty (as is the CTO obviously). It went down way differently than I expected. I presented some of my research on the 2010 oil spill, and they were highly impressed.
---
This is a relatively new approach that I (not bragging here, just the facts) am one of the few experts in the world on.... it's a bit beneath my training level.
---
So I presented my stuff, and they told me that they just bought some software written by an old internship mentor of mine. It turns out some of my code is in this software, so I know it well. When they heard my talk, and that I had actually worked on the software they were purchasing, the CEO basically said, "No, you shouldn't be in services. I think we could find you and R&D position, and even get 3 or so scientists working for you as your team."

Click to expand...

Gee, how could I have mistaken any of that for bragging?

It seems like your biggest problem is that you don't want to relocate to Houston. Re-entering academia shouldn't be a huge issue, and double the salary is going to really make a difference when it comes to making those house payments. And since you'll be doing R&D, I guess the "boredom" issue with your job won't be as bad, either.

But the fact is, I'm not you, so while I can see a large amount of practical benefits towards taking the job, I can't say what would be "best for you".

I wouldn't know any other way to present it. It was a laundry list of factual events, all directly affecting my opinion of the company, and theirs of me. I didn't present any of it in a boastful way. If I said they were highly impressed, that's what happened. I didn't present it to boast, I presented it because it converted directly into a higher position and money offer, nothing more.

okay.

Eh. Just take the job. Have fun for a few years.

If it doesn't work out, many schools would be glad to have you with your academic experience, and your corporate experience on top. You would be in a much stronger position to teach students, most of whom plan on entering the workforce.

If it works out that you enjoy it, great! Given your own team you would still be able to feed the "mentor and teach" aspects of your personality, while doing research yourself.

If they drop the department later, again, many school would be glad to have you.

Take a leap and see what happens. Whatever does happen, it'll be a new experience, and you'll grow from it in ways different than you can expect to right now.

By complete coincidence, my wife found out today that one of her minor friends is married to someone who did exactly what I'm contemplating. He was a prof in petroleum engineering at U. of Michigan, and left the job for industry. It was interesting to hear his side. He said it took him about 6 mos. to adjust, and that he still misses teaching a lot, but the free time is nice. I think that is honestly one of the things I want the most. More than money, which is just a thing. I have taken maybe a few days of vacation in the last 10 years. I've heard a lot of academics complain about the same thing. The job never ends. You leave the office, but you're still at work. That's not always a bad thing, mind you. But it would be nice to catch a break that doesn't make me feel guilty. Tenure stress and burnout are really wearing on me.

The thing about going back...the general thinking is that when you leave the Ivory Tower, the door slams and locks behind you. I've heard tell that that's a myth, but then I don't know any profs who came from industry, either.

Re: profs who come from industry - that could be because it's usually a 50-60% drop in pay for an equal or increased workload... at least, that's the consensus among the few faculty here who were professionals in their field.

The problem isn't that the schools refuse to take them back, it's that the schools refuse to pay what they were making in the private sector - unless the professor is a proven grant-earner that will bring more into the university than they cost.

It's hard for the professor to make the adjustment

Chibibar said:

Wow. that is a tough position to be in. They offer you a team in the R&D department? awesome. What is the shelf life of that in private sector? (i.e. are they the first to go in time of money crunch?) how stable is the company? I know it is small and new, but what do you feel about it?

What are you backup plan? what if the company folds (private company usually do) can you come back to the university? can you still teach part time online or something? (that way you still keep a safety net)

if you were to ask this question 10 years ago, I would say go for it with both feet in BUT with the current state of the U.S. economy, you gotta have a backup plan in case this "really awesome position" decides to fall apart on you say 6 months from now.

Also the reason I ask cause like you said, it is a very specialize field so it is a pretty much a nitch market right? that makes it harder to find a new job later right? (that is a question since I know nothing about your job/position market feasibility)

Click to expand...

This is an established, well-known company that has been around since about 1980. The bulk of their business is actually in standard imaging services, so it's unlikely to fold. The niche part...that's funny because the niche company actually bought the established one. The future is hard to tell. The niche field went through a bubble a few years ago, because it was oversold. Exxon even had a commercial about it on tv, which shocked me, because so few people do it. But the bubble burst, and some of the startups went under. This one sold off its data acquisition side (several ships and equipment), and just decided to focus on the processing side. But now that the snake-oil oversell is done, the business is starting to pick back up in a more sensible way. Could be the perfect time to get in on it.

Well so, I just talked to my dept. and my dept. chair about it. I basically got a "don't let the door hit ya where the good lawd split ya". That was a bit irritating. Basically I was told don't expect a raise, even if you get tenure. I mean they were nice about it. Just rather less than concerned. I mean, humility aside, I'm the best teacher in this department. My teaching reviews are really high. I have to turn down overrides at the beginnings of semesters. I'm well-known in my field. And this is all I get? A big fat "it's been real"?

That's awful! Their reaction alone would push me out the door sooner rather than later regardless of them being "nice about it".

Well, welcome to SE Texas.

Take the corporate gig, it sounds like they'll appreciate you more than your university bosses.

I was already on the "coporate gig" side, but if that's the attitude they give you, I'm not sure you could count on academic perks, anyways.

fade said:

Well so, I just talked to my dept. and my dept. chair about it. I basically got a "don't let the door hit ya where the good lawd split ya". That was a bit irritating. Basically I was told don't expect a raise, even if you get tenure. I mean they were nice about it. Just rather less than concerned. I mean, humility aside, I'm the best teacher in this department. My teaching reviews are really high. I have to turn down overrides at the beginnings of semesters. I'm well-known in my field. And this is all I get? A big fat "it's been real"?

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Come on man, you know that Academia is all about the arrogance. They all get pissed when you decide not to lead the same life they had. My professors in grad school expressed to me in so many words how disappointed they were when I told them I hated the idea of getting a post-doc. Fuck em. My first year out I was making more money than a tenured professor - until my department took a shit a year and a half later. The thing is, the experience I gained from that job was 100 x more valuable than 'lab research experience'.

If times are tough, and they need a good prof. any university will pick you up again.

Well, one colleague--the one I have the best rapport with--said something interesting. He said that professors are paid in ego. That's why we get into the job in the first place. He's right, you know. The thing I'd miss the most is being the master. There are halls full of people right now who call me Dr. Jack (b/c they can't pronounce my last name) and view me as the guru. I get off on that, I'll confess.

I guess I was hoping for some kind of "oh no don't go!" reaction. My chair told me that this is a business relationship, and if I choose to leave that's just the way it is. Likewise if the University were to let me go. True again, I suppose, but so cold. I guess I viewed a university position too much like Hogwarts in my mind. I mean that's what I wanted.

fade said:

I guess I viewed a university position too much like Hogwarts in my mind. I mean that's what I wanted.

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You WANT Dark Wizards to try and kill you every year?

fade said:

Well, one colleague--the one I have the best rapport with--said something interesting. He said that professors are paid in ego. That's why we get into the job in the first place. He's right, you know. The thing I'd miss the most is being the master. There are halls full of people right now who call me Dr. Jack (b/c they can't pronounce my last name) and view me as the guru. I get off on that, I'll confess.

I guess I was hoping for some kind of "oh no don't go!" reaction. My chair told me that this is a business relationship, and if I choose to leave that's just the way it is. Likewise if the University were to let me go. True again, I suppose, but so cold. I guess I viewed a university position too much like Hogwarts in my mind. I mean that's what I wanted.

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Well, you know also that some prof might get jealous that YOU got the position (I know that is the case with our school)
At this rate, I say go for it and enjoy the ride.

That ties into a recent pair of conversations I had with a friend of mine who teaches several lit courses I took. I mentioned the success of my recent gaming books when he asked how my writing was going. He said, "No, I mean your real writing." I said, "This is writing I'm being paid for, that gets published, and that other people buy. What's not real about that?" He says, "I mean your stuff that isn't genre." I said, "Well, I haven't really done anything on that because all my writing time is being spent on paying jobs." And he shook his head like that was a foolish mistake. He even said, "You know, you could do better working on fiction instead of whatever it is you're doing." I was let down by that. Then I realized that at this point, I've got more stuff published and in circulation than he ever has.

So this past week I see him at the college's lit magazine release, which he's one of the faculty advisers for. He asks me what I'm working on, and I tell him I've got 2500 words to do by the next day. And he looks stunned, and goes, "For what?" And I explain that I picked up a freelance job for another gaming company, 5000 words total for 5 high-level encounters, one week to do it. He says that's a lot of work with a short deadline. I agree that it is, and say, "Well, that's part of writing for money, I guess." And he laughs and says, "Yet another reason I have 'cleverly avoided' doing so all these years." I know he was kind of joking, but he also kind of wasn't.

There really is a sort of ivory tower snobbery in academia, compared to people who try and apply their skills in the private sector. It's an ugly thing once you recognize it.

It's very much an Artist Vs. Craftsmen deal. The Artists get the glory and admiration. Craftsmen get paid and maybe recognition if they are at the top of the field. So which is better really depends on whether it's your "job" or if your getting paid to do something else for a living.

In the words of BJ Ward (and he might have got them from someone else, but I heard them from him) - "Calling yourself a professional artist is like calling yourself a professional lover. Unless you're enormously talented or independently wealthy, you're still going to need a day job."

My day job isn't anything special but it pays the rent. I write because I enjoy it and I think I'm good at it, good enough to be published. The money I make off it isn't much, but it's a start. And when I have a larger work finished, I can go to the publisher with some professional credentials. I'm already meeting publishers through my gaming work.

So, I accepted the position. If this is the "right" decision, why do I feel like crap about it.

It sounds like apprehension of the unknown.

Also it is hard to quit one career for another.

Depends what you feel bad about...leaving the students, leaving the university, leaving colleagues, concern about a possible "grass is greener" effect...

fade said:

So, I accepted the position. If this is the "right" decision, why do I feel like crap about it.

Click to expand...

I felt crappy resigning from my position this week too, even though moving was a clearly good career step. There's this lingering feeling of disappointing people or letting people down in the department or the students, etc. I'm glad I wasn't listening to that part of my brain when I was looking for a job!

fade said:

So, I accepted the position. If this is the "right" decision, why do I feel like crap about it.

Click to expand...

You feel like that cause it is a BIG change. Your environment that you are comfortable to an environment that is "new" (i.e. haven't been in AGES) you will be moving to a city you don't particularly like (Houston so you said) BUT the job is good and you are putting your skills into "real work" (I'm totally guessing here) since it will be applied right? no more theories or studies and stuff. Your stuff/reports/lab whatever will be put to use? (again I'm guessing here)

It is natural that we will be apprehensive when it comes to big changes in our lives. We will fear the worst and think about all the negative about it, but since you have look at this logically, and work it out within yourself, you will adapt, you will prevail, and you will be happier later (again I'm hoping)

MindDetective said:

There's this lingering feeling of disappointing people or letting people down in the department or the students, etc.

Click to expand...

This is a big part of every job change for me. No transition is ever clean.

But, as they pointed out to fade, this is a business relationship, and it must necessarily be mutually beneficial. You don't feel bad when you choose to get a toy from toys r us instead of walmart - your reasons for choosing one over the other are determined by you.

It's a little different choosing between two jobs, but not much when you break it down into its basic components.

Still, people is people, and you can't divorce your feelings from your position and your colleagues so easily, so no matter what you're going to have a sinking feeling during the transition.

Just think of it as moving outside your comfort zone, and work past it.

MindDetective,

I have the same feeling. I have about 10 grad students right now, and I'll confess, I'm quite concerned for their futures. I am going to try to get 4 of them to defend before I leave. One I've promised to help from afar because she's just too invested in this project to change now. The rest go to different advisors, I guess.

I know some of my students know about this forum, so I refrained from saying it until now, but one of my biggest motivations for leaving is my insecurity about the future of this department. The department was recommended for review and possible closure recently when the state asked for 35% (you read that right) across the board budget cuts. The dean claims we're safe because we bring in a lot of intro to geology students looking for an easy science. But I don't know. Instead of closing us, they're merging us with the other earth sciences into a school of geosciences, and hiring a new administrator. Because that spends rather than makes money, I can only guess that something's going to happen.

Interesting note: someone found this post by googling for "how to leave a professor job". Guess we're not alone.

Well. Not to necro too much, but some interesting things have happened. I went to visit the university on monday, and I was actually surprised. That emotional reaction at my leaving that I wanted? It happened when I dropped by for a visit, oddly enough. I was practically asked to re-apply for the position. Apparently, they've had 5 applicants for 3 open positions, and according to the head, they all suck. Why so few? Location? I am re-applying.

It's not without precedent. One of the old guys did EXACTLY what I may be doing. He was a stronger prof for it. The TL;DR version is that there's a lot of petro-specific lingo and research that I wasn't all that familiar with, and I am now thanks to working here. Actually scratch that. Two of them did it, but one only did it for a semester, and officially with the university's sanction.

I miss the life. I like the money, but damn if I don't miss saying "Professor" when people ask me what I do.

Seriously... ask for more money. They know you have options now and they are hurting for a replacement.

You should definitely push for at least 10% more than previously if not 20-30% more when salary is negotiated. You might not have that option depending on their salary system, but if you understand the pay scales and grades, you should be able to convince them your industry experience pushes you up in the scale if they have one.

Hell, at least you had some fun and made some moniez right?

Might I suggest...