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http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2009/12/01/politics/main5851527.shtml

someone please educate me on how can people actually predict when to pull out? I mean a lot is riding on the hope the country will built their own security unit by then. What if the country doesn't comply fast enough? (like Iraq from what I read) and we will need to be there STILL after 2012?

It is hard to keep a promise like that when it depend heavily on the other countries pulling their weight. The war is over 8 years now.

Yeah, if I was the enemy, I'd just chil-lax until the troops rolled home, and then rein down the thunder. Seems a bit silly to announce the exit date.

drawn_inward said:

Yeah, if I was the enemy, I'd just chil-lax until the troops rolled home, and then rein down the thunder. Seems a bit silly to announce the exit date.

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This and many other factors. I never understood it.

Obama could always use the sloganizer that the Bush campaign used 5 years ago...

Stay the course...

Don't change horses while in mid stream...

sixpackshaker said:

Obama could always use the sloganizer that the Bush campaign used 5 years ago...

Stay the course...

Don't change horses while in mid stream...

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I thought Bush had an exit strategy and a date set for 2011?

The problem is that once we pull out, the warlords will control Afghanistan again and any good we've done there will be undone as our supporters are gunned down in the streets. Infrastructure we have built/rebuilt will again fall to ruin. No security force can be around forever... it's only a matter of time until the Taliban re-take power.

We may have made that if we did not "pull out" of Afghanistan back in '03 to invade Iraq.

Chibibar said:

someone please educate me on how can people actually predict when to pull out?

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The urge to take this particular statement out of context is nearly overpowering.

OVERPOWERING, I say!

Fun Size;307355][quote=Chibibar said:

someone please educate me on how can people actually predict when to pull out?

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The urge to take this particular statement out of context is nearly overpowering.

OVERPOWERING, I say![/QUOTE]

LOL! I didn't even think about that until you mention it.

The trick is to have built up a steady domestic defense force before pulling out of course. You can measure the capabilities of these forces somewhat and calcuguess from there on.

Given the quite heavy resistance that exists still, I doubt that country is going to survive us pulling out. Probably end up in either non stop terrorist attacks ala Israel / Palestine or all out civil war.

Nuke it from orbit. It's the only way to be sure.

Ahhh Afganistan, the graveyard of Empires.

isn't the world supposed to end in 2012?

It's impossible to win a war on terrorism by conventional means. If you attack using the military you have 2 possible outcomes. You can win, which means you martyr the enemy fighters and this is used as a recruiting tool. Or you can lose, which emboldens the enemy and is used as a recruiting tool. You just can't win that way.

We can't win this battle and thinking we can is insane. This is a mistake. Had we gone in right after 9/11 we'd have been able to accomplish something as the world would have been with us. Now, though, it's too late and we've squandered the opportunity.

Bad Obama! Bad!

Dave: I totally agree. My wife and I been talking with our friends who support this and told them war on terrorism can't be won via open war. It is not a war against a nation. Terrorist are all over the world with many different national backgrounds.

wouldn't it have been cool if he actually got us out of afghanistan completely and all the troops came home?

What was the point in going in the first place Charlie?

To run a pipeline from Russia to Pakistan?

Shegokigo said:

What was the point in going in the first place Charlie?

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I'm guessing oil. but the government will deny that.

Shegokigo said:

What was the point in going in the first place Charlie?

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idk, to get a bunch of old people rich and kill brown people? just like every war?

Charlie Dont Surf;307916][quote=Shegokigo said:

What was the point in going in the first place Charlie?

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idk, to get a bunch of old people rich and kill brown people? just like every war?[/QUOTE]

Dude, that's just unfair. In WW2, we killed a bunch of white people too.

History, people!

The only natural resources Afghanistan has is Location, Poppies, and Pissed Off Locals.

Fun Size;307917][quote=Charlie Dont Surf;307916][quote=Shegokigo said:

What was the point in going in the first place Charlie?

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idk, to get a bunch of old people rich and kill brown people? just like every war?[/QUOTE]

Dude, that's just unfair. In WW2, we killed a bunch of white people too.

History, people![/QUOTE]

at the end of that war, we gave the jews their own country so they could kill brown people for us. BOOM. nailed it.

sixpackshaker said:

The only natural resources Afghanistan has is Location, Poppies, and Pissed Off Locals.

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Which makes for happy defense contractors drooling at the prospect of a never ending war.

Charlie Dont Surf;307919][quote=Fun Size;307917][quote=Charlie Dont Surf;307916][quote=Shegokigo said:

What was the point in going in the first place Charlie?

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idk, to get a bunch of old people rich and kill brown people? just like every war?[/quote]

Dude, that's just unfair. In WW2, we killed a bunch of white people too.

History, people![/quote]

at the end of that war, we gave the jews their own country so they could kill brown people for us. BOOM. nailed it.[/QUOTE]

Nice save. Game point: Charlie.

They may take our lives, but they'll never take our blankets.


What?

Actually.... what was the reason for the afgan war? I figure Iraq true intention was oil. sure the WMD was the "ruse" and fight against "terror" but how do you fight terrorism via open traditional war? there is no country to "surrender" these people operate around the world and some even local nationals.

my opinion is that Iran can get away with a lot of stuff lately cause they are the 4th largest producer of oil. people need oil why can't we just go to alternative fuel.

I think what they are hoping to accomplish Chibi is enabling the region to work towards a stable government. At least that's what it seems like to me.

The local government was basically inviting terrorists from around the world to hide and train there. We needed to get them out of the way so we could go after the terrorists.

Also fighting overseas helps divert attention away from out coasts.

sixpackshaker said:

The local government was basically inviting terrorists from around the world to hide and train there. We needed to get them out of the way so we could go after the terrorists.

Also fighting overseas helps divert attention away from out coasts.

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Yea.... that is working out well..... (sarcasm)

From the look of it, there are terrorist around the world. Wouldn't it be easier to assassinate them via spies?

Krisken said:

I think what they are hoping to accomplish Chibi is enabling the region to work towards a stable government. At least that's what it seems like to me.

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That's the idea now. It was originally in response to the Taliban's involvement in the 9/11 attacks, as they were sheltering Osama Bin Laden at the time. Thing is, he fucking hightailed it out of there once he heard we were coming. So, in essence, we...

- usurped the legitimate power in the region
- turned the social order on it's ear
- Allowed Warlords to regain the power they lost under Taliban rule
- killed hundreds, if not thousands of innocents caught in the crossfire
- destroyed a lot of the infrastructure we built for them in the first place

... for nothing. Any good we did is going to be undone in the weeks after we leave, as anyone who accepted our help is shot in the streets.

AshburnerX;307969][quote=Krisken said:

I think what they are hoping to accomplish Chibi is enabling the region to work towards a stable government. At least that's what it seems like to me.

Click to expand...

That's the idea now. It was originally in response to the Taliban's involvement in the 9/11 attacks, as they were sheltering Osama Bin Laden at the time. Thing is, he fucking hightailed it out of there once he heard we were coming. So, in essence, we...

- usurped the legitimate power in the region
- turned the social order on it's ear
- Allowed Warlords to regain the power they lost under Taliban rule
- killed hundreds, if not thousands of innocents caught in the crossfire
- destroyed a lot of the infrastructure we built for them in the first place

... for nothing. Any good we did is going to be undone in the weeks after we leave, as anyone who accepted our help is shot in the streets.[/QUOTE]

I so want to scream bullshit right now. Taliban was never a legitimate government. The warlords still held some power. The Taliban was basically as bad to their own people as they are now. We never built jack in that nation. We helped the Mujaheddin defeat the Soviets, then ran away as soon as the last tank left. Then the Taliban that sat out the fight knocked the Mujaheddin out of power.

AshburnerX said:

- killed hundreds, if not thousands of innocents caught in the crossfire

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That's so cute that you think the war on terror has killed less than a thousand innocent people

http://www.cbsnews.com/blogs/2009/12/02/politics/politicalhotsheet/entry5867031.shtml

new update.

---------- Post added at 04:16 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:16 PM ----------

Charlie Dont Surf;307978][quote=AshburnerX said:

- killed hundreds, if not thousands of innocents caught in the crossfire

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That's so cute that you think the war on terror has killed less than a thousand innocent people[/QUOTE]

less than a thousand reported?

sixpackshaker said:

I so want to scream bullshit right now. Taliban was never a legitimate government. The warlords still held some power. The Taliban was basically as bad to their own people as they are now. We never built jack in that nation. We helped the Mujaheddin defeat the Soviets, then ran away as soon as the last tank left. Then the Taliban that sat out the fight knocked the Mujaheddin out of power.

Click to expand...

Actually, we did do some significant building there. For example, there is an important power plant in the region (that we built during the first war with the Taliban) that basically lost 95% of it's ability to function in the years after we left because the engineers in charge ran out of replacement parts and had to jury rig everything. When we finally came back, we brought in parts to fix everything (and are trying to get a second turbine in, but were having problems because the roads were still Taliban controlled.) We brought it back up to full operation and then instructed the engineer in charge to start using some of the spare parts we brought to keep it working.

A month later, the Military adviser went back to the power plant and saw that the boxes of parts had been untouched. He asked the Engineer in charge about this and was told that they wouldn't be using the parts right away, because they had to stockpile them for when we leave again.

Do you understand? THIS is reason why the war in Afghanistan is going so badly: They know we are going to leave and that they will be under someone else's thumb the second we do, and that THOSE people don't have a problem with putting a bullet in them for just about anything. That's why we've accomplished jack the entire time we've been there.

Charlie Dont Surf said:

That's so cute that you think the war on terror has killed less than a thousand innocent people

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It's probably closer to at least 50-100 thousand actually, but that's really not the point.

Ash: This is what I was thinking. How can we (the U.S.) ever truly leave a country who will just revert back to its former self? It is not like other countries where things will change over time.

Not every country can be democratic.

Well maybe not every country that was formed by the stroke of a pen thousands of miles away.

I was under the impression that we were staying in afghanistan to keep pakistan from destabalizing because of all the taliban refugees that fled afghanistan when we invaded. Obama ran his campaign on beefing up afghanistan, not ending all war. If we had to stuck to afghanistan instead of stupidly invading Iraq (a country that was successfully secular, even if it was run by an evil dictator). Now after deposing Saddam, and we leave Iraq, the Taliban will just have a huge recruiting force.


We aren't the world police, but I can understand why we are beefing up Afghanistan. We need to take the pressure off our current troops so we can focus on training the locals.

2012 is when the world will end... so it's the perfcet time to pull out, obviously.

That's it!

I'm going to re-word this threads title in a way so it can be used for a pick-up line.

Pull'n'pray people!

Obama is going to get Afghanistan real pregnant.