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Alarm sounded over game futures
#1
@Li3n
@Li3n
Ha ha, consoles are ruining the industry, a million screaming PCfanboys experience exhilaration...A stark warning about the finances of the games industry has been aired at the Edinburgh Interactive conference.
The sector had suffered "significant disruption" to its business model, Edward Williams, from BMO Capital Markets told the industry gathering.
"For Western publishers, profitability hasn't grown at all in the past few years and that's before we take 2009 into account," he said.
By contrast, he said, Chinese firms were still seeing improved profits.
What makes the difference between Western firms and Chinese developers was the way they went about getting products to players.
Western publishers, said Mr Williams, still relied on the traditional develop methods of putting a game on a DVD and then selling that through retail channels.
Chinese developers focussed primarily on the PC market and used direct download, rather than retail stores, to get games to consumers.
Those Chinese developers were also helped by the low number of console users in South East Asia (other than Japan) which meant developers there did not have to pay royalties to console makers.
Future models
Three factors, said Mr. Williams, were forcing the operating costs of Western firms to spiral upwards:
• Games are getting larger, which meant longer development time and larger staff costs.
• In the 1990s the PlayStation accounted for 80% of the market, today the console space is very fragmented, so developers have to work on many platforms at any one time.
• The cost of licensing intellectual property or gaining official sports body endorsement (such as FIFA or FIA) has gone up.
These factors, said Mr. Williams, explained the stagnation in overall profitability despite sales in the games sector increasing by $30bn (£24.17bn) over the past four years.
Recent figures suggest sales are also coming under pressure. US game sales fell by 29% in the last 12 months suggest statistics from research group NPD.
PS2 console, AP
The PlayStation no longer dominates pushing up costs for game makers
Speaking to the BBC, Peter Moore - president of EA Sports - said that while the Chinese and Western markets were still very different, he expected to see some significant changes in the way Westerners buy games in the future.
"In China, PC and mobile platforms will continue to dominate," he said. "There isn't the necessity to buy other pieces of hardware and it is our job to service that."
"In Europe we are going to see more content that's delivered electronically, be that through Steam, Xbox Live or whatever."
Mr Moore added that while this may have some impact on retailers, the future of the high street shop was still bright, especially if you factor in sales of hardware, peripherals and game-time cards.
"The release of Tiger Woods online as a free to play experience will be the real test of the Western consumer's appetite for digital downloading," he said.
The game, scheduled for release in late 2009, has a segment which gamers can play for free online but can also pay for additional content as required.
Now in its sixth year, the Edinburgh Interactive Conference brings together industry figures, developers, publishers and the media to discuss issues facing the interactive game sector and to try to promote creativity.
#2
Shegokigo
Shegokigo
It also doesn't help that some major popular games have MUCH longer lifetimes on PC than console thanks to mods and downloadable content.
#3
AshburnerX
AshburnerX
Consoles aren't going anywhere. The serve the people who ether can't afford to upgrade every other year or don't have the technical savvy to do the work themselves. Also, when was the last time you heard of a console getting a virus and then needing to be re-formatted, requiring all of it's basic operation software to be re-installed? Consoles are a safer, less frustration filled alternative to PC gaming.
It's also about having set parameters for system requirements: A game made for a console will work on all of that type of console. A game made for PCs may or may not work on another PC, even if you have the same system specs.
It's also about having set parameters for system requirements: A game made for a console will work on all of that type of console. A game made for PCs may or may not work on another PC, even if you have the same system specs.
#4
Shegokigo
Shegokigo
Yes Ash, but the chances are that the console game systems are going to resort to cheaper and cheaper games, dumbing most of them down, to keep up with sales vs cost.
#5
Hailey Knight
Hailey Knight
Oh no, what will I ever do if EA can't afford sports licenses? Horror and dismay!
#6
Allen, who is Quiet
Allen, who is Quiet
so publishers who focus primarily on consoles might have to evolve or die. they knew the market was risky when they signed up. big deal.
#7
@Li3n
But this wasn't about consoles going away, but about them ruining the industry and how we should burn them at anti-console rallies...
@Li3n
I never understood this... i already used 3-4 computers for 4+ years each before being unable to actually play new games, and none of them was over 1000$... and after 4 years console graphics are way behind... this gen seems to be lasting longer, but so do the PCs, coz 3D graphics are finally reaching a point where improving them doesn't give as much of an impression.AshburnerX said:The serve the people who ether can't afford to upgrade every other year
But this wasn't about consoles going away, but about them ruining the industry and how we should burn them at anti-console rallies...
#8
Shegokigo
Shegokigo
Agreed, a "new" decent gaming pc Tower alone isn't much more than a top of the line console when they're first released either.
#9
@Li3n
@Li3n
Of course most of the diff is from the whole "selling them at a loss and charging more for games" thing. And the lack of a monitor...
#10
Shegokigo
Shegokigo
Well we're talking about "upgrading every few years" you don't need to buy a new monitor/speakers/keyboard/mouse everytime.
#11
Olorin
Olorin
One of the main problems with Western developers seems to be that they want to make each of their games the most impressive new thing around. So they use huge budgets to make the most realistic graphics, special effects and physics, instead of making a much cheaper game that may not look as fancy but is still fun to play.
Most Japanese games have much smaller budgets and therefore don't have to sell millions of copies to make a profit.
Most Japanese games have much smaller budgets and therefore don't have to sell millions of copies to make a profit.
#12
AshburnerX
AshburnerX
THIS is the problem, this right here. Profit margins wouldn't be so razor thin if they didn't try to push the technology with every game, just to please the people who need the best and shiniest to justify their hobby.Olorin said:One of the main problems with Western developers seems to be that they want to make each of their games the most impressive new thing around. So they use huge budgets to make the most realistic graphics, special effects and physics, instead of making a much cheaper game that may not look as fancy but is still fun to play.
Most Japanese games have much smaller budgets and therefore don't have to sell millions of copies to make a profit.
#13
@Li3n
@Li3n
But your argument about pc towers being only slightly more expensive when the console comes out didn't strike me as about how you need to upgrade, but about purchasing at the same time... of course i didn't see the " there...Shegokigo said:Well we're talking about "upgrading every few years" you don't need to buy a new monitor/speakers/keyboard/mouse everytime.
#14
Gill Kaiser
Gill Kaiser
No kidding. I've had the same keyboard, mouse and speaker system for a decade or more, in which time I've almost fully upgraded my PC three times and my monitor once.
#15
bhamv3
bhamv3
I'm just glad no one in the article was screaming "But... but... but... PIRACY!!"
#16
Hailey Knight
Hailey Knight
Butt piracy?
I'm sorry, that was beneath me.
I'm sorry, that was beneath me.
#17
AshburnerX
AshburnerX
That's because most of us realize that piracy is only a serious threat to the small, independent developers who need to sell every copy just to stay in business. It's an annoyance to everyone else.bhamv3 said:I'm just glad no one in the article was screaming "But... but... but... PIRACY!!"
#18
Bubble181
Yarr Harr Matey!
irate:
Bubble181
escushion said:Butt piracy?
I'm sorry, that was beneath me.
Yarr Harr Matey!
irate:
#19
@Li3n
probably because the article mentions how the profits are going up in China... and if that country doesn't have a piracy problem no one does.
@Li3n
bhamv3 said:I'm just glad no one in the article was screaming "But... but... but... PIRACY!!"
probably because the article mentions how the profits are going up in China... and if that country doesn't have a piracy problem no one does.
#20
General Fuzzy McBitty
I don't know that I agree that consoles are "safer" ... there's just fewer of them about, so you end up with a smaller number of total failures.
General Fuzzy McBitty
I dunno... some people don't mind buying the same console more than once when it dies.AshburnerX said:Consoles aren't going anywhere. The serve the people who ether can't afford to upgrade every other year or don't have the technical savvy to do the work themselves. Also, when was the last time you heard of a console getting a virus and then needing to be re-formatted, requiring all of it's basic operation software to be re-installed? Consoles are a safer, less frustration filled alternative to PC gaming.
I don't know that I agree that consoles are "safer" ... there's just fewer of them about, so you end up with a smaller number of total failures.
#21
AshburnerX
The only system notorious for problems right now is the X360 and that's because Microsoft isn't willing to up the price of the console to include whatever innovations would stop the problem. They seem to think it's cheaper just to replace/fix the old ones whenever they break down. I don't believe I've ever heard of problems with the PS3 or Wii.
AshburnerX
My NES and SNES never had problems. My PSX only had problems after 10 years. My original Xbox never had problems. None of my handhelds ever had problems. The only console of mine that ever had a problem was my PS2 and that's because it was from the first run, which was notorious for their improper manufacturer. Once I got it replaced with one of the slim PS2s, I never had a problem with it.General Fuzzy McBitty said:I dunno... some people don't mind buying the same console more than once when it dies.AshburnerX said:Consoles aren't going anywhere. The serve the people who ether can't afford to upgrade every other year or don't have the technical savvy to do the work themselves. Also, when was the last time you heard of a console getting a virus and then needing to be re-formatted, requiring all of it's basic operation software to be re-installed? Consoles are a safer, less frustration filled alternative to PC gaming.
I don't know that I agree that consoles are "safer" ... there's just fewer of them about, so you end up with a smaller number of total failures.
The only system notorious for problems right now is the X360 and that's because Microsoft isn't willing to up the price of the console to include whatever innovations would stop the problem. They seem to think it's cheaper just to replace/fix the old ones whenever they break down. I don't believe I've ever heard of problems with the PS3 or Wii.
#22
Aisaku
Aisaku
Re: Consoles vs PC
I agreee completely, there are less failures because at least when you buy a console it's a given it will run all games you buy for it in top notch shape, no better or worse than your peers, if it happens to be a multiplayer game. I ran into that problem with bioshock, that even if my old computer was able to 'run' the game, it was only at the lowest of low settings, and not without semi-freezing when any kind of light distorting effects were used, say plasmids. So I actually considered getting a 360 just for it.
Re: Game's future
The root of the problem from the consumer standpoint is that it doesn't make sense to spend such large amounts of money to catch up with the latest technologies, the latest gen. The problem from the industry's standpoint is that consumers aren't buying the newest version of the game, the newest hardware as quickly as they were. So their focus on being the cutting edge is backfiring. So a paradigm shift is in order. Towards affordable platforms, digital distribution of content, making games that appeal to a broader demographic. It all seems to be already in motion. Just hope it comes to fruition.
I agreee completely, there are less failures because at least when you buy a console it's a given it will run all games you buy for it in top notch shape, no better or worse than your peers, if it happens to be a multiplayer game. I ran into that problem with bioshock, that even if my old computer was able to 'run' the game, it was only at the lowest of low settings, and not without semi-freezing when any kind of light distorting effects were used, say plasmids. So I actually considered getting a 360 just for it.
Re: Game's future
The root of the problem from the consumer standpoint is that it doesn't make sense to spend such large amounts of money to catch up with the latest technologies, the latest gen. The problem from the industry's standpoint is that consumers aren't buying the newest version of the game, the newest hardware as quickly as they were. So their focus on being the cutting edge is backfiring. So a paradigm shift is in order. Towards affordable platforms, digital distribution of content, making games that appeal to a broader demographic. It all seems to be already in motion. Just hope it comes to fruition.
#23
fade
fade
That's not the only (or even the major market, in my opinion) that consoles serve. Consoles also are attractive to people who want a dedicated machine that's self contained and guaranteed to quickly and easily play a game that you can (and this is I think very much a biggie) flop back on your couch and play. And play for 10 minutes if you like. That's me. I love the casual nature of a console. Plus it doesn't seem to suck you in and away from your family so much as a PC game does, which is partially due to the way we shoehorn our desks out of the way somewhere. Of course, there are ways to make a PC do all of that, but the console is relatively inexpensive and does it already. It's not necessarily tied to tech savvy.AshburnerX said:Consoles aren't going anywhere. The serve the people who ether can't afford to upgrade every other year or don't have the technical savvy to do the work themselves. Also, when was the last time you heard of a console getting a virus and then needing to be re-formatted, requiring all of it's basic operation software to be re-installed? Consoles are a safer, less frustration filled alternative to PC gaming.
It's also about having set parameters for system requirements: A game made for a console will work on all of that type of console. A game made for PCs may or may not work on another PC, even if you have the same system specs.
#24
Bowielee
Bowielee
What some people are forgetting, though, with the advent of consoles being online creatures and homebrewing, consoles are falling into the same pitfalls that used to make them superior to PCs. Some games are being shipped buggy with the promise of patches via download at a later time and with homebrew, you can get viruses on your consoles now.
#25
AshburnerX
AshburnerX
Yes, but you can only get one if your willing to risk it. There is nothing forcing you to use homebrew on a console and I'm fairly certain it violates the warranty.Bowielee said:What some people are forgetting, though, with the advent of consoles being online creatures and homebrewing, consoles are falling into the same pitfalls that used to make them superior to PCs. Some games are being shipped buggy with the promise of patches via download at a later time and with homebrew, you can get viruses on your consoles now.
#26
@Li3n
@Li3n
Consoles are turning into custom build PC's for sure, just look at the PS3 that was supposed to be a home entertainment system from the get go...
#27
Bowielee
The buggy releases still stand just the same. because console developers know that they can ship now, patch later, they're starting to follow the same model that PCs have.
Bowielee
No different then being stupid enough to download a virus in the first place on your PC. I don't see any difference between using torrents and such that end up containing viruses on your PC and jailbreaking your console and getting a virus. There's really not a distinction there.AshburnerX said:Yes, but you can only get one if your willing to risk it. There is nothing forcing you to use homebrew on a console and I'm fairly certain it violates the warranty.Bowielee said:What some people are forgetting, though, with the advent of consoles being online creatures and homebrewing, consoles are falling into the same pitfalls that used to make them superior to PCs. Some games are being shipped buggy with the promise of patches via download at a later time and with homebrew, you can get viruses on your consoles now.
The buggy releases still stand just the same. because console developers know that they can ship now, patch later, they're starting to follow the same model that PCs have.
#28
figmentPez
figmentPez
Consoles now have OS updates, which both fix and break things.
Hardware/software incompatibility, sort of. It's arguable for all the various versions of PS3 that have different levels of backwards compatibility, as well as for the Xbox 360 "Arcade" that has no hard drive to support certain features. Also, with the iPhone 3G vs 3GS, some games don't run very well on the slower 3G. Yes, the iPhone isn't a console, but it's a definite possibility for console generations to start to blur like handheld generations have. Speaking of which, the Nintendo DSi is incompatible with certain DS games.
Console gamers used to mock PC gamers for having noisy gaming rigs. Haven't heard that argument in a while.
Install times.
Hardware/software incompatibility, sort of. It's arguable for all the various versions of PS3 that have different levels of backwards compatibility, as well as for the Xbox 360 "Arcade" that has no hard drive to support certain features. Also, with the iPhone 3G vs 3GS, some games don't run very well on the slower 3G. Yes, the iPhone isn't a console, but it's a definite possibility for console generations to start to blur like handheld generations have. Speaking of which, the Nintendo DSi is incompatible with certain DS games.
Console gamers used to mock PC gamers for having noisy gaming rigs. Haven't heard that argument in a while.
Install times.
#29
@Li3n
@Li3n
One of us, one of us...
#30
Bubble181
Bubble181
A console is no different from a Mac. It's a pc, from a specific manufacturer, with a premade hardware configuration, making it easier to develop for.
'cept a console tends to play on the TV screen.
'cept a console tends to play on the TV screen.
#31
Bowielee
Bowielee
And with new TVs, so do PCs nowBubble181 said:A console is no different from a Mac. It's a pc, from a specific manufacturer, with a premade hardware configuration, making it easier to develop for.
'cept a console tends to play on the TV screen.
#32
Bubble181
Bubble181
Yup.
A Mac is a pre-made PC for work. A console is a pre-made PC for games. A PC is a happy combination of the two.
A Mac is a pre-made PC for work. A console is a pre-made PC for games. A PC is a happy combination of the two.