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Analyst: Steam to Offer Trade-Ins
#1
ThatNickGuy
ThatNickGuy
The Escapist : News : Pachter: Valve Will Offer Trade-ins on Steam
I don't see how this works out for Steam, financially, but it seems like an interesting idea in theory.
I've said it numerous times that, rather than BluRay and such, that soon movies and games will be digital. PC games are certainly nearly there, as it is. In fact, wasn't there a PC games recently that, even if you bought the disc, it still downloaded the game? With Steam, particularly, PC games are becoming almost entirely digital.
But this? Well, for starters, I think the used product market will dip considerably. GameStop already doesn't buy back PC games. Even if consoles are still primarily disc-based (except for some growing popularity of smaller, downloadable games), the PC game market certainly seems to be almost entirely online, now.
I don't see how this works out for Steam, financially, but it seems like an interesting idea in theory.
I've said it numerous times that, rather than BluRay and such, that soon movies and games will be digital. PC games are certainly nearly there, as it is. In fact, wasn't there a PC games recently that, even if you bought the disc, it still downloaded the game? With Steam, particularly, PC games are becoming almost entirely digital.
But this? Well, for starters, I think the used product market will dip considerably. GameStop already doesn't buy back PC games. Even if consoles are still primarily disc-based (except for some growing popularity of smaller, downloadable games), the PC game market certainly seems to be almost entirely online, now.
#2
Nile
Nile
I really don't see this happening. Too many issues with the DRM that this would necessitate.
#3
Gusto
Gusto
No retailer buys back PC games because it encourages/allows piracy. Once the CD Key has been used once it typically can't be used again.
The only way I could see this working on Steam is if it randomly generates a new key every time it's purchased and the old one is stricken from some kind of online database. I don't see it working out. Piracy on PC games is already rampant as is.
The only way I could see this working on Steam is if it randomly generates a new key every time it's purchased and the old one is stricken from some kind of online database. I don't see it working out. Piracy on PC games is already rampant as is.
#4
figmentPez
That said, I would be very surprised if Valve did offer trade-in value for games. They might gamble that more people would buy games at launch if they knew they could trade them in later, but PC gamers haven't been able to do that for a while.
Stardock was planning on used game trade-ins for their digital distribution system Impulse, but I don't think anything ever came of that. If they're still planning the Impulse Marketplace, it's something that they haven't mentioned to the press in a while.
---------- Post added at 10:29 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:27 PM ----------
figmentPez
Please explain. I'm not sure how this causes any DRM complications. You sell the game back to Valve, they remove it from your Steam account and you can't play it anymore. What extra DRM is necessary beyond what is already there?I really don't see this happening. Too many issues with the DRM that this would necessitate.
Games bought that were bought via Steam online don't have keys (unless they use other DRM in addition to Steam). Well, no key that the user ever sees. I really can't see any technical reason why Valve couldn't do something like this.No retailer buys back PC games because it encourages/allows piracy. Once the CD Key has been used once it typically can't be used again.
The only way I could see this working on Steam is if it randomly generates a new key every time it's purchased and the old one is stricken from some kind of online database. I don't see it working out. Piracy on PC games is already rampant as is.
That said, I would be very surprised if Valve did offer trade-in value for games. They might gamble that more people would buy games at launch if they knew they could trade them in later, but PC gamers haven't been able to do that for a while.
Stardock was planning on used game trade-ins for their digital distribution system Impulse, but I don't think anything ever came of that. If they're still planning the Impulse Marketplace, it's something that they haven't mentioned to the press in a while.
---------- Post added at 10:29 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:27 PM ----------
More than one, I think. I remember when Half Life 2: Episode 1 came out, the retail copies downloaded more data in "patches" than got installed from the disc.In fact, wasn't there a PC games recently that, even if you bought the disc, it still downloaded the game?
#5
Nile
Nile
Remember the Assassin's Creed 2 DRM debacle? That's the sort of thing that they would have to package with every game to make sure that people didn't just buy the game, download it onto a couple different machines, crack it, then "return" it. A required online check every time you start up the game would screw over those of us who don't always have an internet connection.
#6
Ravenpoe
Ravenpoe
We're talking about digitally downloaded games, via steam, which already require an online check every so often. And there's really no point in buying a game disc to "crack" when you can just go to any torrent site and download the cracked game, no purchase needed.Remember the Assassin's Creed 2 DRM debacle? That's the sort of thing that they would have to package with every game to make sure that people didn't just buy the game, download it onto a couple different machines, crack it, then "return" it. A required online check every time you start up the game would screw over those of us who don't always have an internet connection.
#7
Nile
Nile
Yes, but there's a difference between every so often and every time you try to play the game.
I'm not saying that there aren't easier ways to pirate games. I'm just saying that allowing returns would force intrusive security measures on those who did legitimately buy games via Steam. I don't think Valve is willing to deal with that.
I'm not saying that there aren't easier ways to pirate games. I'm just saying that allowing returns would force intrusive security measures on those who did legitimately buy games via Steam. I don't think Valve is willing to deal with that.
#8
figmentPez
figmentPez
I still fail to see why a constant internet connection would be necessary just because there are cracks for games. Why would someone buy a game and lose money trading it in as a method to piracy?Remember the Assassin's Creed 2 DRM debacle? That's the sort of thing that they would have to package with every game to make sure that people didn't just buy the game, download it onto a couple different machines, crack it, then "return" it. A required online check every time you start up the game would screw over those of us who don't always have an internet connection.
#9
Bowielee
Bowielee
How so? No DRM tweaking is needed on steam's end. as was pointed out earlier, they can simply remove a game from your steam account. DRM would be no different than it is in it's current form on steam. Allowing returns would in no way effect current steam users in any way. We're talking about a solely digital medium. It's not even a return in the classic sense, just a small refund for agreeing to remove the game from your account.Yes, but there's a difference between every so often and every time you try to play the game.
I'm not saying that there aren't easier ways to pirate games. I'm just saying that allowing returns would force intrusive security measures on those who did legitimately buy games via Steam. I don't think Valve is willing to deal with that.
#10
SpecialKO
I'm with figPez, Steam seems like the best positioned to do something like this. Buy back with no inventory/re-stocking costs, no refurbishment, no used copy liability? Sounds like an idea with potential.
SpecialKO
What kind of security measures are you thinking of? I know keys can be sticky, but if keys are tied only to play licenses instead of retail boxes, and they're all tied into a unified online client (which they are), being able to invalidate keys (and generate new ones), should be relatively simple to do. They already keep a list of what licenses you have already, after all.Yes, but there's a difference between every so often and every time you try to play the game.
I'm not saying that there aren't easier ways to pirate games. I'm just saying that allowing returns would force intrusive security measures on those who did legitimately buy games via Steam. I don't think Valve is willing to deal with that.
I'm with figPez, Steam seems like the best positioned to do something like this. Buy back with no inventory/re-stocking costs, no refurbishment, no used copy liability? Sounds like an idea with potential.
#11
Nile
Nile
I suppose. I just tend to think the worst when it comes to DRM and companies being benevolent enough to trust their customers. Still, if there's a developer that would do it, it'd be Valve, so who knows.
#12
figmentPez
figmentPez
I don't see where benevolence or trust comes into this. If Valve did allow game trade-ins on Steam, it would be because they can make money off of it. There's no trust involved. If they get a higher rate of trade-ins than they'd like, they lower the price they pay out. Chances are trade-ins would go into the recently introduced Steam Wallet, "in-store credit only" so to speak, so they'd just have the customer locked-in to some future purchase (and if the money is their Steam account, it's that much easier to talk them into flitting it away on micro-transactions.)I suppose. I just tend to think the worst when it comes to DRM and companies being benevolent enough to trust their customers. Still, if there's a developer that would do it, it'd be Valve, so who knows.
#13
Nile
Nile
Hm... That makes sense. The cost of someone downloading a game would have to be cheaper than the amount he paid, even after returning it. Hadn't thought about it like that, I was thinking more along the lines of "People would crack the games they already have, and return them." Still, that could be solved just as easily by only allowing returns to convert to Steam money, as you said.
I kind of hope they do this now. I've got a couple old games I could convert to TF2 stuff.
I kind of hope they do this now. I've got a couple old games I could convert to TF2 stuff.
#14
SpecialKO
SpecialKO
If there's a DRM issue, I expect it to be from Valve's partners, not Steam's backend. Though if trade-ins are simply for store credit, which is spent on regular price games, I don't think they would have a problem with that.
It's kind of like we talked about before in the last thread about the trade-in market. If publishers can insert themselves directly into it instead of allowing Gamestop and the like to rake in all the middle man cash, they would have no reason to get annoyed by it, and Steam may be that opportunity to insert themselves.
It's kind of like we talked about before in the last thread about the trade-in market. If publishers can insert themselves directly into it instead of allowing Gamestop and the like to rake in all the middle man cash, they would have no reason to get annoyed by it, and Steam may be that opportunity to insert themselves.
#15
@Li3n
@Li3n
Pachter?! Isn't that the guy that said RTS's are turn based and that's why they don't do well on consoles?
Here we go:
“I have long been baffled as to why RTS games don’t work on consoles. I think it is partly because of the nature of the gameplay, it’s single-player and it’s turn-based.
“I play them a lot on my work PC, and I think games like this probably started with slackers like me who play games at work and don’t tell their bosses about it.
“For some reason, I think they just appeal to the more hardcore PC gamers. I personally play PC games more than any other genre, I just don’t like PC gamers that’s all.”
Someone is confusing RTS with Civ or something.
And games are tied to steam accounts, it would be child's play for them to check if someone has a cd-key that was used for another account before and ban the account that was using it. But as it was pointed out before, games bought on Steam don't actually give the player a cd key (even if they probably have some sort of id method).
Here we go:
“I have long been baffled as to why RTS games don’t work on consoles. I think it is partly because of the nature of the gameplay, it’s single-player and it’s turn-based.
“I play them a lot on my work PC, and I think games like this probably started with slackers like me who play games at work and don’t tell their bosses about it.
“For some reason, I think they just appeal to the more hardcore PC gamers. I personally play PC games more than any other genre, I just don’t like PC gamers that’s all.”
Someone is confusing RTS with Civ or something.
WHAT?! Pirated games don't use valid cd-keys in the first place.No retailer buys back PC games because it encourages/allows piracy. Once the CD Key has been used once it typically can't be used again.
The only way I could see this working on Steam is if it randomly generates a new key every time it's purchased and the old one is stricken from some kind of online database. I don't see it working out. Piracy on PC games is already rampant as is.
And games are tied to steam accounts, it would be child's play for them to check if someone has a cd-key that was used for another account before and ban the account that was using it. But as it was pointed out before, games bought on Steam don't actually give the player a cd key (even if they probably have some sort of id method).
I'm pretty sure the data is already on the disk, but you have to run it manually, while the default installer d/l from Steam...In fact, wasn't there a PC games recently that, even if you bought the disc, it still downloaded the game?
#16
Chibibar
Chibibar
What about offline mode? We can play most of the game in offline mode, but if we sell it back and went offline, it "may" work or some pirate will figure to "patch" the steam game to think it is offline and don't "phone home"
#17
figmentPez
figmentPez
Well, offline mode would work until you want a new game, or access to any of Steam's online features. I don't see that being any more of a problem than multiple people trying to share a Steam account by abusing offline mode.What about offline mode? We can play most of the game in offline mode, but if we sell it back and went offline, it "may" work or some pirate will figure to "patch" the steam game to think it is offline and don't "phone home"
#18
Chibibar
well, that is true until the hacker can figure out a way to "move" the directory to another location, patch it, and viola! fully unlock game and just sell back the "original unpatched" game.
Chibibar
Well, offline mode would work until you want a new game, or access to any of Steam's online features. I don't see that being any more of a problem than multiple people trying to share a Steam account by abusing offline mode.[/QUOTE]What about offline mode? We can play most of the game in offline mode, but if we sell it back and went offline, it "may" work or some pirate will figure to "patch" the steam game to think it is offline and don't "phone home"
well, that is true until the hacker can figure out a way to "move" the directory to another location, patch it, and viola! fully unlock game and just sell back the "original unpatched" game.
#19
figmentPez
figmentPez
I'll repeat what I said earlier "Why would someone buy a game and lose money trading it in as a method to piracy?"well, that is true until the hacker can figure out a way to "move" the directory to another location, patch it, and viola! fully unlock game and just sell back the "original unpatched" game.
#20
Chibibar
well.. it is easier and safer not to get Trojan I guess (unless the patch itself has a virus) who knows, but on the flip side, one person have to buy it somewhere before they can pirate it out. So I figure the "main pirate" will buy the steam game, take a little lost and pirate it and get some money back to buy more.
Chibibar
I'll repeat what I said earlier "Why would someone buy a game and lose money trading it in as a method to piracy?"[/QUOTE]well, that is true until the hacker can figure out a way to "move" the directory to another location, patch it, and viola! fully unlock game and just sell back the "original unpatched" game.
well.. it is easier and safer not to get Trojan I guess (unless the patch itself has a virus) who knows, but on the flip side, one person have to buy it somewhere before they can pirate it out. So I figure the "main pirate" will buy the steam game, take a little lost and pirate it and get some money back to buy more.
#21
@Li3n
@Li3n
Offline mode?! Wouldn't they require you to be online while doing the trade in, which would take away the rights to the game from your Steam account...
Ehh... they still have to get rid of the steam protection stuff... and that is already something that's being done (hacking steam games).well, that is true until the hacker can figure out a way to "move" the directory to another location, patch it, and viola! fully unlock game and just sell back the "original unpatched" game.