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And The Joker Killed.....

#1

Gilgamesh

Gilgamesh

http://www.cnn.com/2013/02/11/showbiz/joker-batman-shocker/index.html

My money's on Alfred.
(I really wish there weren't like 30 Bat-Titles this all centered around or I might have been interested in the build-up)


#2

sixpackshaker

sixpackshaker

Jason Todd, in the Tent, with a lead pipe.

It should come full circle.[DOUBLEPOST=1360612874][/DOUBLEPOST]And because it was a fucking cheap trick to bring him back in the first place.


#3

phil

phil

The joker finds a time machine and kills Jason Todd after sending him back to be batman's dad.


#4

Gryfter

Gryfter

Does it really matter as whoever dies will just return to life once the sales slump again.


#5

Gilgamesh

Gilgamesh

Gryfter said:
Does it really matter as whoever dies will just return to life once the sales slump again.
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That's just it, if it's Alfred, I don't think we'll see a ressurection of him in this continuity. It's not like a Super-Hero death, then again non-superheroes tend to pop back up from the dead too thanks to cloning.


#6

Dave

Dave

I'm always amazed that nobody has killed these people before. Looking at the kinds of stuff Batman has, it's not a huge leap to know who he really is.


#7

Frank

Frank

Gilgamesh said:
That's just it, if it's Alfred, I don't think we'll see a ressurection of him in this continuity. It's not like a Super-Hero death, then again non-superheroes tend to pop back up from the dead too thanks to cloning.
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If Aunt May can die and be resurrected, so can Alfred. Aunt May is the Kenny of comics.


#8

Gilgamesh

Gilgamesh

Frank said:
If Aunt May can die and be resurrected, so can Alfred. Aunt May is the Kenny of comics.
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Yeah but you're comparing Marvel to DC. Not as many -Deals with the Devil/Gods- in the DC verse.


#9

Bowielee

Bowielee

Gilgamesh said:
Yeah but you're comparing Marvel to DC. Not as many -Deals with the Devil/Gods- in the DC verse.
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Have you actually read DC comics? There was an entire crossover that was based around deals with the devil.

It's actually one of the few crosssovers where some of the changes have actually been permanent, such as Metallo's new abilities.


#10

Gilgamesh

Gilgamesh

Bowielee said:
Have you actually read DC comics? There was an entire crossover that was based around deals with the devil.

It's actually one of the few crosssovers where some of the changes have actually been permanent, such as Metallo's new abilities.
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Not -as- many. As well as not -as- many non super-hero permanent rebirths.


#11

figmentPez

figmentPez

Bowielee said:
such as Metallo's new abilities.
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So, Metallo is the new Hank Henshaw?


#12

Bowielee

Bowielee

They don't really have as many supporting characters as Marvel does, usually, either. My major distinction between Marvel and DC throughout the years have been that DC is about super-heroes as iconic heroes and Marvel is about super-heroes as people. Consequently, they tend to have more supporting characters (many of whom have stayed dead, for example Captain Stacy, Jean DeWolfe, Moira McTaggart).[DOUBLEPOST=1360618086][/DOUBLEPOST]
figmentPez said:
So, Metallo is the new Hank Henshaw?
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Underworld Unleashed happened around the same time that it was revealed who the Cyborg Superman was, so they kind of run parallel. A lot of the villain power ups stuck. Of course, that's all moot now with the relaunch.

Also, Killer Moth was a much more formidible opponent when he became an ACTUAL giant killer moth.


#13

ThatNickGuy

ThatNickGuy

Not to mention Chuck Dixon used the super-smart Blockbuster perfectly in his run on Nightwing, making him the Kingpin to Nightwing's Daredevil.

Also, I wouldn't say Spidey's deal with Mephisto is the same as Underworld Unleashed. DC, at least, understood that there are huge ramifications when dealing with the devil rather than just saying "Oh, it's magic. We don't need to explain it." (Seriously, Joe Quesada is actually quoted saying that). I recall there was a great story arc with Flash's Rogue Gallery after Neron wiped them out.


#14

Bowielee

Bowielee

Spidey's deal with Mephisto has no bearing on the point I was replying to, in relation to bringing back minor characters. Aunt Mae never actually died in OMD. She was in the PROCESS of dying and was mainly just the mcguffin to get Peter to make the deal. Aunt Mae was extremely periphreal to the main reason it was done, which was to wipe out Spidey's unmasking and remove the marriage to MJ. Basically, she wasn't killed off as an event to sell comics, it was just part of the story. It could just as much have been her being banished to another dimension or any other trite reason to make Peter make the deal with Mephisto.

Now, if we're talking support characters dying that came back through stupid ass/comic book logic/magic/clone body/never actually happened/whatever, there are probably just as many examples on the DC universe as in the Marvel universe.


#15

ThatNickGuy

ThatNickGuy

Oh, there certainly are because COMICS.


#16

Gilgamesh

Gilgamesh

Bowielee said:
Now, if we're talking support characters dying that came back through stupid ass/comic book logic/magic/clone body/never actually happened/whatever, there are probably just as many examples on the DC universe as in the Marvel universe.
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Just going to disagree with you there. It's definitely used way more often as BIG SURPRISE CHANGES EVERYTHING then retconned within 5-10 issues on Marvel's side. Hell look at Aunt May or Capt America. Now compare that to Jason Todd or Oracle's spinal shot.

I'm not saying it doesn't happen, I'm saying the death of Alfred is something way more comic book world shattering than Aunt May or just about anyone who's died on Marvel's side.


#17

Bowielee

Bowielee

Hey, speaking of which... With the reboot, what's the status of Elastic Man and Sue Dibney? They still dead or did the whole Jean Lorring killing her thing never happen?[DOUBLEPOST=1360638534][/DOUBLEPOST]
Gilgamesh said:
Just going to disagree with you there. It's definitely used way more often as BIG SURPRISE CHANGES EVERYTHING then retconned within 5-10 issues on Marvel's side. Hell look at Aunt May or Capt America. Now compare that to Jason Todd or Oracle's spinal shot.

I'm not saying it doesn't happen, I'm saying the death of Alfred is something way more comic book world shattering than Aunt May or just about anyone who's died on Marvel's side.
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Actually, until you brought up the deals with devils/gods thing, my response was going to be that up to about 10 years ago, I would have agreed that at least DC stayed consistent with keeping characters dead for the most part. But then they started bringing everyone and their brother back from the dead. Barry Allen, Hal Jordan, Supergirl etc... and they seem to be coming back from the dead faster and faster nowadays. Hell, Superboy was dead for, what, 2 months?[DOUBLEPOST=1360638696][/DOUBLEPOST]

I'd also refer you to the Death of Superman and Breaking of Batman to refute that one.


#18

Gilgamesh

Gilgamesh

Bowielee said:
Hey, speaking of which... With the reboot, what's the status of Elastic Man and Sue Dibney? They still dead or did the whole Jean Lorring killing her thing never happen?[DOUBLEPOST=1360638534][/DOUBLEPOST]

Actually, until you brought up the deals with devils/gods thing, my response was going to be that up to about 10 years ago, I would have agreed that at least DC stayed consistent with keeping characters dead for the most part. But then they started bringing everyone and their brother back from the dead. Barry Allen, Hal Jordan, Supergirl etc... and they seem to be coming back from the dead faster and faster nowadays. Hell, Superboy was dead for, what, 2 months?[DOUBLEPOST=1360638696][/DOUBLEPOST]

I'd also refer you to the Death of Superman and Breaking of Batman to refute that one.
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Everyone you named was a Super Hero. Which isn't my original point.


#19

Frank

Frank

Gilgamesh said:
Everyone you named was a Super Hero. Which isn't my original point.
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Your examples were super heroes too though.


#20

Gilgamesh

Gilgamesh

Frank said:
Your examples were super heroes too though.
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To counter the point made, but not the original one.


#21

Bowielee

Bowielee

Gilgamesh said:
To counter the point made, but not the original one.
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No, you brought up Batgirl and Robin of examples of characters that were changed for extended periods and compared them to Aunt May and Cpt. America in terms of staying dead. You're making a false equivalency.


#22

Gilgamesh

Gilgamesh

I guess Alfred dying would mean shit, he'll be back in a few issues. What a stupid idea for DC to come up with. My bad.


#23

Bowielee

Bowielee

As Nick said, heroes villains AND civilians are brought back all the time in both univerises because COMICS!


#24

Gilgamesh

Gilgamesh

Yep, what a pointless event. Why bother killing anyone, means nothing.


#25

Bowielee

Bowielee

Gilgamesh said:
I guess Alfred dying would mean shit, he'll be back in a few issues. What a stupid idea for DC to come up with. My bad.
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My point in saying that "yes, in the past DC was consistent with keeping characters dead" is that this is no longer the case, like, at all. If they kill him off, it will to be sell books and bringing him back will be to do the same.[DOUBLEPOST=1360639781][/DOUBLEPOST]
Gilgamesh said:
Yep, what a pointless event. Why bother killing anyone, means nothing.
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That's kind of what almost every comic book fan realized about 10 years ago. Welcome to the cynic party.


#26

Gilgamesh

Gilgamesh

Bowielee said:
My point in saying that "yes, in the past DC was consistent with keeping characters dead" is that this is no longer the case, like, at all. If they kill him off, it will to be sell books and bringing him back will be to do the same.[DOUBLEPOST=1360639781][/DOUBLEPOST]

That's kind of what almost every comic book fan realized about 10 years ago. Welcome to the cynic party.
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I was being sarcastic. Cynicism is a choice.


#27

Bowielee

Bowielee

Gilgamesh said:
I was being sarcastic. Cynicism is a choice.
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Either way, I'm right :p


#28

Gilgamesh

Gilgamesh

Bowielee said:
Either way, I'm right :p
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Sure you are. I'm sure you'll continue to -enjoy- reading comics.


#29

Frank

Frank

Panel 1: A shadowy figure appears in the doorway. Wind blows rain inside the room.

Panel 2: A shocked Bruce Wayne recoils

Panel 3: Close up of the shadowy figure.
Shadowy Figure: I had to Master Bruce.

Panel 4: Shadowy Figure is revealed to be none other than thought dead trusty butler Alfred.
Alfred: You needed something to push you more than ever against him.


#30

Bowielee

Bowielee

I do. But I harbor no delusions that it's also a business.


#31

Gilgamesh

Gilgamesh

Bowielee said:
I do. But I harbor no delusions that it's also a business.
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I'll continue to view them as entertainment, not something to dissect and ruin into cynicism.


#32

Bowielee

Bowielee

lol, you just spent the last page doing just that. You can be cynical about what will happen in the future and still enjoy things. I've just come to accept that storylines in comics are to be enjoyed as they come as individual story arcs. I don't care of things get undone or people are reborn, as long as the writing is quality, I don't care.[DOUBLEPOST=1360640117][/DOUBLEPOST]Now will someone answer my Elongated Man question :p


#33

Gilgamesh

Gilgamesh

Bowielee said:
lol, you just spent the last page doing just that. You can be cynical about what will happen in the future and still enjoy things. I've just come to accept that storylines in comics are to be enjoyed as they come as individual story arcs. I don't care of things get undone or people are reborn, as long as the writing is quality, I don't care.
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It seems you do care, or you wouldnt' be cynical. Also I didn't dissect anything, I defended against a cynical point with little to no factual backing.


#34

ThatNickGuy

ThatNickGuy

Your example of Captain America doesn't quite work, Gilg. He managed to have the fortitude to stay dead for at least two years.

Also, DC had Jason Todd come back because Superboy Prime punched the walls of reality.

Honestly, it's a silly argument because you could name great examples of stories of death & resurrection (Superman, Captain America) and not so great examples (Jason Todd, Sue Dibny).

Also, Aunt May's been dead I think at least twice. Certainly once during the Clone Saga.


#35

Gilgamesh

Gilgamesh

ThatNickGuy said:
Also, Aunt May's been dead I think at least twice. Certainly once during the Clone Saga.
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Exactly.


#36

Bowielee

Bowielee

Gilgamesh said:
It seems you do care, or you wouldnt' be cynical. Also I didn't dissect anything, I defended against a cynical point with little to no factual backing.
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I have the history of comic book characters being killed and resurrected with regularity as my backing. What do you have? We don't even know who it will be at this point.


#37

ThatNickGuy

ThatNickGuy

Bowielee said:
Now will someone answer my Elongated Man question :p
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I don't think they've even shown up yet in the new 52, so I guess technically it's still not undone. Personally, I would've loved to see them as ghost detectives, which was apparently Mark Waid's idea at the tail end of the 52 series.


#38

Frank

Frank

ThatNickGuy said:
Your example of Captain America doesn't quite work, Gilg. He managed to have the fortitude to stay dead for at least two years.

Also, DC had Jason Todd come back because Superboy Prime punched the walls of reality.

Honestly, it's a silly argument because you could name great examples of stories of death & resurrection (Superman, Captain America) and not so great examples (Jason Todd, Sue Dibny).

Also, Aunt May's been dead I think at least twice. Certainly once during the Clone Saga.
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And almost dead more times than can be counted.

Also, Colossus had a pretty good death in Marvel.

And possibly one of the worst resurrections. ALIEN JAIL THE WHOLE TIME!


#39

ThatNickGuy

ThatNickGuy

Also, rumours seem to be right now that it's possibly Jason Todd.


#40

Bowielee

Bowielee

ThatNickGuy said:
I don't think they've even shown up yet in the new 52, so I guess technically it's still not undone. Personally, I would've loved to see them as ghost detectives, which was apparently Mark Waid's idea at the tail end of the 52 series.
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I would have read the shit out of that.


#41

ThatNickGuy

ThatNickGuy

Frank said:
And possibly one of the worst resurrections. ALIEN JAIL THE WHOLE TIME!
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Yeah, but that was a pretty cool way Whedon brought him back. "Am I finally dead?"


#42

Frank

Frank

ThatNickGuy said:
Also, rumours seem to be right now that it's possibly Jason Todd.
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With a crowbar hopefully. Then have Starfire go, "Jason who?"

Then the last frame is a picture of someone throwing Red Hood and the Outlaws in a trashcan.


#43

Bowielee

Bowielee

Frank said:
With a crowbar hopefully.
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And on the way out, he shoots Batgirl in the spine.

Honestly, though, I was never interested in Barbara Gorden as a character until she became Oracle.


#44

ThatNickGuy

ThatNickGuy

Frank said:
With a crowbar hopefully. Then have Starfire go, "Jason who?"

Then the last frame is a picture of someone throwing Red Hood and the Outlaws in a trashcan.
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Funny enough, I just re-skimmed through our New 52 thread and saw my old prediction that Red Hood & the Outlaws likely wouldn't last past the first six issues. I was wrong, but man, I wish I wasn't.


#45

ThatNickGuy

ThatNickGuy

Also, to join the cynic discussion: I moved away from most of DC and Marvel for a good, long while. There's too many amazing comics out there by other companies like Image, Dark Horse, IDW, etc, that I don't give two craps about these events anymore. I try to look at books that I can enjoy in trade form, which events almost never read well just on their own (Blackest Night, Civil War, etc).

It's not so much that I'm cynical, but just that I don't care enough to bother with DC and Marvel's crap anymore. There's too much other good stuff to bother with them.


#46

figmentPez

figmentPez

If they do kill off Alfred, do you think he'll come back as a villain?


#47

filmfanatic

filmfanatic

figmentPez said:
If they do kill off Alfred, do you think he'll come back as a villain?
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Wouldn't be the first time. He was once a villain known as the Outsider.


#48

CynicismKills

CynicismKills

I read it on /co/. Spoilers ahoy.

Nobody dies. It's a huge copout where the Joker might be dead, but nobody finds a body so of course, he's likely not. Joker fakes out Batman into thinking he's sliced everyone's faces off like his, turns out he didn't. He gassed Alfred, and after Batman ruins his plan Joker gasses everyone else and they get into a brawl as Joker/Bats run off. It's pretty horribly written and has absolutely zero payoff for anyone who's been following this storyline. The only thing that changes is Joker apparently told everyone something to cause them to distance themselves from Bats, leaving him with just Alfred.

Also, if you want to read it yourself, it's a stickied thread at the top of /co/ on 4chan.


#49

HCGLNS

HCGLNS

It's a Marvel/DC cross over event. The pre-Joker Jokey is revealed to be the guy who kills Uncle Ben.


#50

Gilgamesh

Gilgamesh

CynicismKills said:
I read it on /co/. Spoilers ahoy.

Nobody dies. It's a huge copout where the Joker might be dead, but nobody finds a body so of course, he's likely not. Joker fakes out Batman into thinking he's sliced everyone's faces off like his, turns out he didn't. He gassed Alfred, and after Batman ruins his plan Joker gasses everyone else and they get into a brawl as Joker/Bats run off. It's pretty horribly written and has absolutely zero payoff for anyone who's been following this storyline. The only thing that changes is Joker apparently told everyone something to cause them to distance themselves from Bats, leaving him with just Alfred.

Also, if you want to read it yourself, it's a stickied thread at the top of /co/ on 4chan.
Click to expand...


#51

Bubble181

Bubble181

Snyder called this the "biggest, cruelest, most twisted story" they could tell involving The Joker.
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Y'know, the problem with that is that I can't actually think of anything from the Joker that I'd consider especially big, cruel or twisted. The Joker's got all of the Batfamily around a table, and won't kill the mbecause he's the Joker and not some other bad guy. Pretty much everyone around that table has been dead at least once. Who cares?
Anyway, my reason for not keeping up with these events is just because they're events. I can't and won't read 7 different titles, 5 issues each, to know the whole story. For fans like me ("not really big fans but I can be persuaded to like a specific story"), the whole "universe" thing just blows. In my mind, each and every hero, except for the teams, lives in a separate continuity. Screw all cross-overs.

Also, if they actually wanted big/cruel/twisted, he should've cut off Bat's face, like his, forcing him to forever wear a mask. Though that wouldn't stick either, of course.


#52

Gilgamesh

Gilgamesh

Bubble181 said:
Y'know, the problem with that is that I can't actually think of anything from the Joker that I'd consider especially big, cruel or twisted. The Joker's got all of the Batfamily around a table, and won't kill the mbecause he's the Joker and not some other bad guy. Pretty much everyone around that table has been dead at least once. Who cares?
Anyway, my reason for not keeping up with these events is just because they're events. I can't and won't read 7 different titles, 5 issues each, to know the whole story. For fans like me ("not really big fans but I can be persuaded to like a specific story"), the whole "universe" thing just blows. In my mind, each and every hero, except for the teams, lives in a separate continuity. Screw all cross-overs.

Also, if they actually wanted big/cruel/twisted, he should've cut off Bat's face, like his, forcing him to forever wear a mask. Though that wouldn't stick either, of course.
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I dunno, I think cutting up Alfred and serving them each a piece would have been a hit that they may have never recovered from. Nearly all of them had a relationship with him.


#53

ThatNickGuy

ThatNickGuy

CynicismKills said:
I read it on /co/. Spoilers ahoy.

Nobody dies. It's a huge copout where the Joker might be dead, but nobody finds a body so of course, he's likely not. Joker fakes out Batman into thinking he's sliced everyone's faces off like his, turns out he didn't. He gassed Alfred, and after Batman ruins his plan Joker gasses everyone else and they get into a brawl as Joker/Bats run off. It's pretty horribly written and has absolutely zero payoff for anyone who's been following this storyline. The only thing that changes is Joker apparently told everyone something to cause them to distance themselves from Bats, leaving him with just Alfred.

Also, if you want to read it yourself, it's a stickied thread at the top of /co/ on 4chan.
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[DOUBLEPOST=1360688266][/DOUBLEPOST]
Then again, they called it "Death of the Family." I guess no one thought to take that title literally.


#54

filmfanatic

filmfanatic

CynicismKills said:
I read it on /co/. Spoilers ahoy.

Nobody dies. It's a huge copout where the Joker might be dead, but nobody finds a body so of course, he's likely not. Joker fakes out Batman into thinking he's sliced everyone's faces off like his, turns out he didn't. He gassed Alfred, and after Batman ruins his plan Joker gasses everyone else and they get into a brawl as Joker/Bats run off. It's pretty horribly written and has absolutely zero payoff for anyone who's been following this storyline. The only thing that changes is Joker apparently told everyone something to cause them to distance themselves from Bats, leaving him with just Alfred.

Also, if you want to read it yourself, it's a stickied thread at the top of /co/ on 4chan.
Click to expand...


#55

Gryfter

Gryfter



Bravo DC! You've done it again.... NOT.


#56

Covar

Covar

ThatNickGuy said:
Then again, they called it "Death of the Family." I guess no one thought to take that title literally
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You know I can't recall a single instance where DC or Synder said that someone was going to die. I find it amusing that everyone wants to criticize the book before hand for having a lazy and predictable event death, then complain cop-out when they actually do something different and with far more subtly that you normally see. Then again a lot of these same people boast about how they don't bother reading the book, then freely pirate.


#57

CynicismKills

CynicismKills

Covar said:
You know I can't recall a single instance where DC or Synder said that someone was going to die. I find it amusing that everyone wants to criticize the book before hand for having a lazy and predictable event death, then complain cop-out when they actually do something different and with far more subtly that you normally see. Then again a lot of these same people boast about how they don't bother reading the book, then freely pirate.
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In the interview linked in the OP he talks about Joker having a "murderous mission in mind." The entire story is a callback to Jason Todd and Death In the Family. I think people were expecting something more impactful than what happened. Batman becoming emotionally distant from people isn't exactly a shocker. Though, I guess at this point neither is seeing a Robin die, so who knows what would have been better, really.


#58

Covar

Covar

ah, but Batman isn't the one who becomes more emotionally distant.


#59

Bowielee

Bowielee

This thread just made me realize that there are now 4 active Robins. This totally speaks to my problem with DC not pulling the trigger on letting the heir apparent sidekicks take over the main roles.


#60

Necronic

Necronic

The comparison to Alfred would be Jarvis.

You knitwits.


#61

CynicismKills

CynicismKills

Yeah, I said that backwards. Either way, it doesn't feel like the big ending the writer talks about in the interview. This could stem from my overall disinterest in DC lately, too, though. Aquaman's been a pretty good read but outside of that it's hard to find a book I'm really into. The dialogue between Bats and Joker is just so weird in this run sometimes.


#62

Bowielee

Bowielee

CynicismKills said:
Yeah, I said that backwards. Either way, it doesn't feel like the big ending the writer talks about in the interview. This could stem from my overall disinterest in DC lately, too, though. Aquaman's been a pretty good read but outside of that it's hard to find a book I'm really into. The dialogue between Bats and Joker is just so weird in this run sometimes.
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There's a weirdly homoerotic vibe coming from the Joker, going back to him stalking Gordon. I'm not... entirely comfortable with the implications of that.


#63

Covar

Covar

Flash. Flash has been awesome.


#64

Necronic

Necronic

Can't we all just agree that the mainline DC franchise is awful and agree to just read Vertigo?


#65

Bowielee

Bowielee

While I'm still extremely anti-reboot, I have picked up a few issues. I haven't liked much of anything I've read. Then again, on the other side of the big 2, we have Cyclops becoming the new Magneto, so I'm kind of cooling even further on the big 2 in general.


#66

CynicismKills

CynicismKills

The only things I've ended up enjoying lately have been the new Hulk and Thor books. Just can't seem to find anything going on in DC right now that I like outside of Aquaman, which I'm pretty behind on anyway.


#67

ThatNickGuy

ThatNickGuy

Necronic said:
Can't we all just agree that the mainline DC franchise is awful and agree to just read Vertigo?
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Except DC has been slowly doing away with it. Constantine's changed over to the main DCU, executive editor Karen Berger (who brought in all the Brits, including Morrison and Gaiman) was let go.

Also, the only thing that's keeping me interested in DC these days is Animal Man. And Swamp Thing, to a lesser extent.


#68

Frank

Frank

Bowielee said:
This thread just made me realize that there are now 4 active Robins. This totally speaks to my problem with DC not pulling the trigger on letting the heir apparent sidekicks take over the main roles.
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4?


#69

Bowielee

Bowielee

Frank said:
4?
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Damien Wayne, the current Robin. Tim Drake, Red Robin. Jason Todd, Red Hood. Dick Grayson, Nightwing.


#70

Frank

Frank

Oh, ok, yeah, well they're all around I guess, but only Damien is really Robin. I don't really read DC so I thought maybe that Batman international shit was still happening and there was just a shitload of Robins.


#71

sixpackshaker

sixpackshaker

Bowielee said:
Damien Wayne, the current Robin. Tim Drake, Red Robin. Jason Todd, Red Hood. Dick Grayson, Nightwing.
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Is Stephanie Brown alive now?


#72

ThatNickGuy

ThatNickGuy

sixpackshaker said:
Is Stephanie Brown alive now?
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Nope. She's in comic book limbo.


#73

Bowielee

Bowielee

Though, really. Think about it. I'm going to make this generous in the ages so that Batman's not actually the oldest man alive.

Dick would have been robin, for at least 10 years, I'd say. Then Jason Todd, let's say 5 years. At least a year before taking on another one for the grieving. Tim drake, we'll say 5 years. Now Damien for at least 1, so we're looking at least 22 years from Dick to Damien, and assuming batman was at least 25 when he took in Dick, that would make Batman almost 50.... that already puts him into TDK territory.[DOUBLEPOST=1360797111][/DOUBLEPOST]Damn, I forgot about Spoiler taking on Robin. We'll give that another year added to the timeline.


#74

ThatNickGuy

ThatNickGuy

I've always been interested in the idea of what the DC or Marvel universe would be like if it followed a proper timeline that's relatively parallel to our timeline. So Batman and Superman started in the 40s as they were introduced, etc. So with that, I think we'd be entering into, what? Third generation? Bruce might likely have passed away by now, Dick retired or possibly passed away. Tim might be Batman now, with Damien as Robin or something.


#75

Bowielee

Bowielee

Even with the compressed timelines, Batman shouldn't be only in his 30s (I believe that's the official age range the "trinity"). Unless he only had his individual Robins for a year or so each. In which case, he sucks balls as a mentor and it's a wonder any of them are still alive. You can't learn the level of martial arts needed to be a sidekick to batman in that time, and I ignored actual training time before really wearing the costume. Even with them starting off with basic martial arts or acrobatic backgrounds, I doubt Batman would send them out in the field completely unprepared. Damien and Stephanie would be exceptions because Stephanie was raised by a supervillain and Damian was trained from birth by the League of Assassins.


#76

Gryfter

Gryfter

ThatNickGuy said:
... executive editor Karen Berger (who brought in all the Brits, including Morrison and Gaiman) was run out of the company.
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Fixed that for ya.


#77

ThatNickGuy

ThatNickGuy

Gryfter said:
Fixed that for ya.
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Truer words never spoken. I keep hoping Image or another comic company will hire her because of her decades of experience and talent. Image has already become the best place for creative teams and new titles. I can't imagine what it'd be like if Berger came on board.


#78

CynicismKills

CynicismKills

ThatNickGuy said:
Truer words never spoken. I keep hoping Image or another comic company will hire her because of her decades of experience and talent. Image has already become the best place for creative teams and new titles. I can't imagine what it'd be like if Berger came on board.
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Speaking of Image, I really need to catch up on Invincible. It's been pretty consistently good since issue 1, at least what I've read of it.


#79

Yoshimickster

Yoshimickster

ThatNickGuy said:
Nope. She's in comic book limbo.
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Well, at least Merryman and the Inferior Five will keep her company!


#80

Necronic

Necronic

Probably the best 'DC' comic I've read in a LONG time is the Planetary run on Wildstorm. Simply an amazing comic. It's hard to describe, but if I were to it's a reimagining of a blend of DC and Marvel characters that's....man it's just hard to describe


#81

CynicismKills

CynicismKills

So it looks like people jumped the gun, someone's gonna die after all (though how we don't know yet). Spoilers ahoy.


#82

Covar

Covar

Grant Morrison is a selfish ass.


#83

Gryfter

Gryfter

What's that make Didio for letting him do it?


#84

Covar

Covar

The same as every other Editor.[DOUBLEPOST=1361912240][/DOUBLEPOST]My issue is not with the action, it's with the way Grant Morrison writes without giving a flying fuck about any other book that is currently going on. This is a big FU to Peter Tomasi and fans of his Batman and Robin title, the same way it was a massively shitty move of him to kill the Kents in origin without bothering to even tell the ONE other writer of Superman.


#85

Gryfter

Gryfter

To be fair to Morrison, it's not his job to inform the other writers what he is doing, that would be the... oh let my think... the editor's job. Grant Morrison gets to do what he does because they (editorial) let him.


#86

Covar

Covar

except other writers manage to talk to each other all the time.


#87

Bowielee

Bowielee

Damien Wayne was a bad idea from the get-go, so not a shit is given on my end.


#88

Gilgamesh

Gilgamesh

What a crock of shit. This should have happened in the Death of the Family saga. That would have been a much more amazing total story.


#89

Gryfter

Gryfter

Writers can talk all they want, editorial approves stories and the fact is that this story was written and approved months ago, if the other writers were not informed so that the impact to their titles could be not be minimized, it's because editorial choose not to tell them. It certainly wouldn't be the first time something like this has happened, especially with Didio at the helm. Besides, who is to say this wasn't planned by Morrison from the beginning. After all he re-introduced him into the main continuity.


#90

ThatNickGuy

ThatNickGuy

Gilgamesh said:
What a crock of shit. This should have happened in the Death of the Family saga. That would have been a much more amazing total story.
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Except the title of the story was Death "OF" the Family, not "In."

This doesn't bug me at all. For one, he's been Morrison's baby from the beginning. This is no different than him killing of Aztec and Zauriel at the end of his JLA run (though the latter made a few appearances after that). In the grande scheme of things, it'll probably be better if it's contained within Morrison's own books. Like, one could read just his books and it'd be just fine. Which I would much prefer over the character just being someone that was killed in an event.


#91

Gilgamesh

Gilgamesh

ThatNickGuy said:
Except the title of the story was Death "OF" the Family, not "In."
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Yet it would have been Death of the Family, due to the loss Bruce could have disbanded the entire Bat-Family in an effort to save them etc.


#92

Covar

Covar

ThatNickGuy said:
Except the title of the story was Death "OF" the Family, not "In."

This doesn't bug me at all. For one, he's been Morrison's baby from the beginning. This is no different than him killing of Aztec and Zauriel at the end of his JLA run (though the latter made a few appearances after that). In the grande scheme of things, it'll probably be better if it's contained within Morrison's own books. Like, one could read just his books and it'd be just fine. Which I would much prefer over the character just being someone that was killed in an event.
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You mean like if it happened in the book Damian had been starring in for the past year and a half, instead of a title that had half its issues take place before Flashpoint, and still can't keep a monthly schedule?


#93

ThatNickGuy

ThatNickGuy

Covar said:
You mean like if it happened in the book Damian had been starring in for the past year and a half, instead of a title that had half its issues take place before Flashpoint, and still can't keep a monthly schedule?
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Hey hey hey, let's not bring logic into this, now!

Besides, the core book behind the Joker story was Batman, since it was Scott Snyder's baby. Robin was barely in that one.


#94

Covar

Covar

Oh I think it would be just as dumb to have had the Joker kill him. Death of the Family was a perfectly good story as it was and a death would have only cheapened it.


#95

BananaHands

BananaHands



RIP


#96

Bowielee

Bowielee

I think Death of the Family would have been better had the Joker actually cut off their faces. It would be easily retconned later what with all the mystical healers and superscience out there.


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