Anyone here use a Mac (or PC) as a guitar amp?

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fade

Staff member
I used to play a lot, but never electric. I have a decent guitar, but no amp right now, and they look kind of pricey if you don't want crap sound. I looked into Garageband, and it seems it has a lot of simulated amps and stomp boxes built in. That would be fine for a beginner. I found some instructions here:

http://www.apple.com/pro/techniques/connectingguitar/

and I'm curious how well it works. Any suggestions?
 
W

wana10

i use a line6 toneport on my pc, both for my bass and guitar. easy set up and sounds pretty decent. oddly enough though, i find my cheap p.o.s. beater guitar sounds a lot better through my computer than my more expensive one, despite the opposite being true when plugged into a real amp.
 

fade

Staff member
Hey AME, I was looking around, and apparently Wal-Mart (or ASDA) and Toys R' Us sells a decent practice amp for $30. Here's a review:



If this guy found it easily and cheaply where he is, I'm guessing you'd find it fairly easily.

Heh. Looks like he's using little sister's computer. Or he's really into Hello Kitty.
 

fade

Staff member
Thanks, I'll look into that. I tried it with a 1/4 - 1/8" adapter and a patch cable I soldered together out of two old pairs of headphones (just for the DIY fun). I plugged that directly into the line in. Even with passive electronics in the guitar, the signal picked-up reasonably well. Enough to have fun. It was kind of quiet, but otherwise, fun. I was happy to learn that not only did my acoustic experience work with the electric, but the amplification is very forgiving of mistakes. Heh. All the amps and preamp settings were fun. Nothing like getting a hard metal sound out of just the Mac. Total cost: $0. :)
 
Ok, my bad, maybe it was the drinking... I use that for keyboards and mic. I use a PodXT for guitar. I build my own sounds in the Pod software and bring it in as a simple audio track into logic/garageband.
Either way there are lots of easy ways to do it.
 

fade

Staff member
I've seen lots of advice to do what you're talking about, though. A lot of people are swearing by using a dedicated ADC device, and as many others are saying that it's needless since you've already got a really powerful ADC device labeled "Line in". I don't know. It worked as a simple amp. Supposedly iLife '09 makes it even easier.

I looked into pre-amps like the Apple post above suggests, and those are more than a simple practice amp! yeesh. It would be nice to get the less timid sound, though.
 

fade

Staff member
There's got to be a cheap (or free) equivalent of Garageband or Logic for your PC. I don't know what it is. Those have great (and fun) software amps built in--at least for a newbie.
 
Yeah, and I wanna say to both of you that I'm doing this for my band and recording so I'm dropping cash on it.
You can totally just stick it in (heh) and play using GB or whatever. Especially if it's just for funzies. Rock out man, just rock out.
Ame: I wish I knew some software for the PC that lets you do what GB does... I'm sure it's out there... I don't know a ton about it, but I know that part of the reason that the fastrack and the pod are good is due to the built in pre-amps, which give you a better sound.
You know who might know? KCWM. He's a big guitar guy. Maybe shoot him a pm.
 
Maybe play around on the Guitar Center website then go to Amazon to buy something that looks good?
The other solution is, if you find your software, go to their forum/help site and see if they can hook you up. I spent a TON of time on the Logic/Garageband forums getting help. I still do actually.
 

fade

Staff member
Yeah, and I wanna say to both of you that I'm doing this for my band and recording so I'm dropping cash on it.
You can totally just stick it in (heh) and play using GB or whatever. Especially if it's just for funzies. Rock out man, just rock out.
Ame: I wish I knew some software for the PC that lets you do what GB does... I'm sure it's out there... I don't know a ton about it, but I know that part of the reason that the fastrack and the pod are good is due to the built in pre-amps, which give you a better sound.
You know who might know? KCWM. He's a big guitar guy. Maybe shoot him a pm.
I appreciate the advice. I was actually sort of aiming this thread at you, but I didn't know who else might know. I'd love to find a group to play with as soon as I get my sea legs back (and learn the electric-specific stuff). I have to get my fingers back, too. Ow.

My wife says: "I can hear you play, and I can hear the speakers, and they sound totally different. I never knew how much of it was in the amp."
 
W

wana10

the line6 usb preamp thingys come with the basic amp modeling software, and a basic recording software setup as well. i got the cheapest version, which just has a 1/4" stereo input, and it ran me 100$.
 

fade

Staff member
okay, latest report. I checked the parts bin at work and found a decent 2.1 set of BA speakers and plugged that into my MBP. Even without a preamp that was niiiiice. I'm using an ESP LTD M series, for what it's worth.
 
There are a couple of relatively cheap (under or around $100 used) interfaces that I've tried and used, but only one I'd suggest. Here's a novel of a post.

1) If you can afford it, you can pick up a Line 6 XT Live, which runs around $250 or less used. If you pick it up used, you can likely move it later on down the road and make back your money. One good thing about the XT Live is that, should you ever choose to, you can actually take it with you, run it out to a sound board and effectively use it to play live gigs. It's metal, so it's relatively sturdy.

This is different than the UX3, which is the newest version of that product line. Some of the XT Lives that you will find used, like the one I owned, contain software packages that the owners have paid for that contain more amp and pedal models. Once you get used to working it, it's a pretty flexible piece of gear that you can do a lot with utilizing the free software from Line 6. In a way, I kind of regret getting rid of mine.

2) I currently use a Line 6 TonePort UX2 that I picked up at a pawnshop for $50. The free software comes with some preamp, pedal effects, guitar and bass amp models, and some mic simulators. The software is free and, if I recall correctly, supports Vista 64-bit. You can play around with the chain of effects and the effects, while obviously not as nice as actual pedals, are pretty adjustable. If anything, it allows you to get an idea of what an effect does should you choose to pursue that effect later on down the road.

http://line6.com/podstudioux2/

3) If you have pedals, which Ame mentioned having, M-Audio puts out a MobilePRE USB which is a simple USB preamp that, IMHO, sounds pretty good. It has both XLR and the standard 1/4" guitar cable input as well, which a signal boost.

I had to move away from it because I got a computer with Vista 64-bit and M-Audio didn't support it at that time. Now they do. Man, I need to pick one of those up again. The MobilePRE is great for recording mic'd amps, even at apartment levels. I'm sure it would sound good for louder recordings, but I can't do that where I live.

I'm pretty sure that you can pick these up used as well for under $100 (I sold mine for $50). You can buy a FastTrack USB for $70 new at Guitar Center http://www.guitarcenter.com/M-Audio...ter-Recording-Interface-102935160-i1154546.gc. If you don't have your own effects or don't know how to work effects and play with .wav editing software (such as Cool Edit Pro 2, among others), I wouldn't suggest this.

http://www.m-audio.com/products/en_us/MobilePreUSB.html

4) Presonus put out a tube preamp called the TubePRE that can also be had for about $50 used. I currently have this (and I'd forgotten about it), but it doesn't hook up via USB. So, it's not REALLY relevant but figured i'd include it. It has a single input with gain/drive controls. It has a single 12AX7 preamp tube, but, honestly, it does little to make it sound more tube like for guitar. I do notice vocals sound better through it. I'd go with the M-Audio MobilePRE, get the ability to record utilizing more than one input, and forget about this one unless you're looking to warm up vocals a little bit.

http://www.presonus.com/products/Detail.aspx?ProductId=16

5) Korg put out a little effects processor called the AX3G a few years ago (it's discontinued now). It sounds pretty good, though is a pain in the ass to use...so much that I rarely use it except for recording a clean electric sound. The effects are pretty good too, once you get past the initial hurdle of tweaking them. I once recorded a quick demo of an old song of mine using a heavy phaser on the rhythm guitar and a rotary/leslie effect on the "lead" guitar...think the verses on Black Hole Sun, but a must faster effect.

You can find it at http://soundclick.com/share?songid=6224433 (just promise not to laugh at the other songs you'll find on that profile...I improvised or did them all in one take). This was recorded by plugging the AX3G directly into the MobilePRE USB and playing with the amp settings a bit. Not a bad clean sound.

Korg came out with an AX3000G that's been discontinued. It appears to be a bigger version of the AX3G and some demos on YouTube don't sound too bad. Apparenly, it breaks under heavy use, but if youre not rocking out and stomping all over the place, I assume it won't. I might have to check into that.

So all of that being said.

The TonePort has been good to me for recording acoustic guitar and bass, though I'm not too terribly impressed with it for recording electric guitar. It sounds good on the computer and headphones, but just doesn't translate well in a mix. It's likely because I haven't sat down and REALLY tried to make it work. I missed my M-Audio MobilePRE so much that I didn't want something to replace it unless it did a better job. That being said, the models do sound decent enough in headphones, especially after you tweak them.

The signal boost feature on the MobilePRE is far and away better than the Toneport. Perhaps my Toneport is broken and it's not working right. Perhaps I just don't know how to make it work. Who knows?

That might not answer any questions asked, but, as a bedroom/apartment player, these are the options I've looked into for songwriting and/or recording options. I'd take my Fender Deluxe Reverb Reissue mic'd up over them all any day, but my neighbors wouldn't think too kindly about any extended use of that.

Feel free to give me a PM if you have any other gear related questions. I'll do my best to answer.
 

fade

Staff member
Odd convergence of the Force.

Thanks KCWM. Those expensive little interfaces will have to wait a while, but they're bookmarked.

---------- Post added at 09:45 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:34 PM ----------

I guess what I'm not understanding is the need for these devices at all. Are they just there to boost the low guitar signal up to line level? I mean, I see that the Line 6 device has amp simulators, etc. in it, but I cannot seem to wrap my head around how that's any different from using a little preamp or boost pedal and routing directly into the Line In jack.

EDIT: I see most of them preamplify, now that I read more closely. Esp. the tubepre.
 
L

Le Quack

They are cool for dicking around with at home, but everytime I've seen people try to use them at live shows its been a complete fail.
 
They were all means to the same ends. The Line 6 stuff gives you far more options because of the fact that it has amp modelers and effects beyond simply boosting your signal. The Line 6 TonePort UX2 and XT Live are both USB devices, though the XT Live is obviously far more expensive. I've seen and heard clips of the XT Live used and it works well...just takes a bit of set up. Le Quack has a point though...the XT Live/AX3/AX3000G can be tricky to use live or get to be the same, consistent label. The other stuff I listed is all for at home use.

The Presonus TubePRE, M-Audio MobilePRE USB, and M-Audio FastTrack USB are all simply just preamps. But, I prefer the sound I get through these and my amp.

The Korg AX3G is something that I think can sound pretty good when used in combination of one of the preamps above. The good thing about it (and the Line 6 XT Live) is that it can be used in combination with an amp as well. The amp sims featured in the AX3G (and I assume by extension, the AX3000G as well) can make a cheap amp sound decent.

I kinda took my post and went a little further with it...going more into the cheaper side of home recording. The TonePort UX2 does have the software that it sounded like people were looking for. I assume people wanted free...but the free stuff I've toyed with have all fallen short.

Apparently, I got a good deal on the UX2 I have, as they go for around $100 on ebay (checked completed listings). The UX1, which looks like a single input version of the UX2, goes for closer to $50-$60. As I said, the software is free...so it might be a good investment. I checked google for "toneport ux2 craigslist" and it looks like they can be had for under $100.

Sorry if I took the thread off on a tangent, but in the case of computer simulation for guitars, I've found that a small investment goes a long way...and can be used for recording as well. The ability to record vocals and bass is nice. Plus, pick up some nice drum software and you can put together demos of full songs. It's no sub for a studio, but great for an advanced sketchpad.
 
I've downloaded the Line 6 software back onto my computer. There are two different softwares that you can use...PODfarm and Gearbox. PODfarm is what I described above as being able to easily play with the chain. Basically, you choose the different effects/amps/etc and drag them down the chain. It will allow to put certain things in different places (delay at the front or end of the chain). Both are free. I've not played much with Gearbox.

I'd be happy to toss a couple of rock demos up. I'll have to use my Les Paul because my tele's single coil pickups just add to the buzz, even when using the hum canceling positions. Just let me know. The UX1 would be able to do the same thing.
 

fade

Staff member
See, now with that device, I still cannot figure out why I would pay 20 bucks to use it when it just takes line-level input. I already have a line-in on my computer. What's the advantage?

(Hmm, seems to have something to do with Windows and how these devices give a direct route to the sound hardware via a protocol called ASIO. It's apparently something Macs don't need because the hardware is already directly accessed.)
 
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