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"My baby's not a genius after plopping them in front of Baby Einstein for the majority of his young life. I want a refund!"

/facepalm. I wish people would understand that the term 'genius' refers to an anomaly among the population; not a run of the mill smart person. Anyone has the potential to be intelligent contributing members of the human race; not everyone can be a genius who takes a subject/art/discipline and completely revolutionizes it.

There is nothing wrong with these videos, to a point. My youngest loves them. They help to REINFORCE what YOU, yourself, are supposed to teach your kids. I can't believe that people were moronic enough to think that if you plop your kid in front of a TV that they'll magically become super-geniuses.

Personally, I still think Sesame Street is the single best educational kids show out there.

When did being a C student become so horrible? C = Average, meaning that's the score most people should get.

Chazwozel said:

http://dscriber.com/home/553-my-baby-wasnt-an-einstein-after-all-can-i-get-a-refund.html

\"My baby's not a genius after plopping them in front of Baby Einstein for the majority of his young life. I want a refund!\"

/facepalm. I wish people would understand that the term 'genius' refers to an anomaly among the population; not a run of the mill smart person. Anyone has the potential to be intelligent contributing members of the human race; not everyone can be a genius who takes a subject/art/discipline and completely revolutionizes it.

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Same vein as the "I'm fat and it's McDonald's fault" argument. Flawed logic, unrealistic expectations, and a desire for money all add up to such complaints.

I'd say the parents making those complaints aren't going to be reaching their intellectual potential anytime soon. All they have to do is publicly claim that their kid isn't all that smart, which should reflect so well on their parenting-by-television approach you know that so many of them took.

If educators give Cs to most students as they should then the overall class average looks bad and the administration takes this as being a bad learning environment. As money received by schools is tied to these types of scores, there is pressure on teachers to award higher marks for substandard work. This is true in every level of education including college level.

The inflation of grades cheapens the highest marks and rewards mediocrity.

I thought this was about the terrible movie giving refunds somehow for anyone that saw it in theater.

That's why I have always said that the only reason Baby Einstein, eating dinner together or listening to classical music seems to work is because it is mostly done by parents who are actually paying attention to their kids. Kids with involved parents are more likely to succeed. Parents that only have minimal interest in their child's development can try to supplement their nonchalant parenting style with Babies Einstein and Bach but it won't do any good.

A mom who reads to her kid and talks to him while listening to AC/DC is a better parent than the one who just plays Mozart while not interacting with him in any other significant way.

Dave said:

If educators give Cs to most students as they should then the overall class average looks bad and the administration takes this as being a bad learning environment. As money received by schools is tied to these types of scores, there is pressure on teachers to award higher marks for substandard work. This is true in every level of education including college level.

The inflation of grades cheapens the highest marks and rewards mediocrity.

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I have no problem giving everyone in my classes Fs, let alone Ds or Cs. I have felt ZERO pressure to change how I grade things from parents or the administration, although students sure complain. In my large lecture classes, student scores reflect a very nice normal distribution, meaning lots of people fail and even more gets Cs.

This takes me back! When my nephew was little, I used to sit on my mom's floor with him and just watch these things over and over! Mom bought the whole series for him and as we watched, we were both mesmerized by the toys and music.

I'm so proud of him.... he was watching TV with his mommy and they saw a violin. He turns to my sister and says " look mommy! It's a little cello!!!"

He's so wonderful! And so is his little sister!!!!

I love being an aunt!

MindDetective;283553][quote=Dave said:

If educators give Cs to most students as they should then the overall class average looks bad and the administration takes this as being a bad learning environment. As money received by schools is tied to these types of scores, there is pressure on teachers to award higher marks for substandard work. This is true in every level of education including college level.

The inflation of grades cheapens the highest marks and rewards mediocrity.

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I have no problem giving everyone in my classes Fs, let alone Ds or Cs. I have felt ZERO pressure to change how I grade things from parents or the administration, although students sure complain. In my large lecture classes, student scores reflect a very nice normal distribution, meaning lots of people fail and even more gets Cs.[/QUOTE]

Interesting. I wonder if this phenomenon is different from institution to institution. I get my (personal totally opinionated) information from about 4 different universities here in the Midwest as well as a couple of local high schools.

I hope that my experiences are not endemic of the educational system as a whole and are an isolated instance of this particular area.

There is another factor to consider: The teacher. The teacher has a reason to believe that their entire class might be scoring well on exams and getting good grades: Because they are good teachers. In some cases this might be correct. A good teacher should be able to systematically shift a whole class upwards, just as a bad teacher can cause an entire class to do more poorly than they would otherwise. The problem is that there is a conflict of interest. Teachers not only teach but also assign the grades. In an ideal world, the teachers would teach and someone ELSE would assess what the students have learned. That would either cost more money or result in teachers getting less pay (or teaching more classes, meaning fewer teachers, to make up for not grading, etc.)

I am somewhat in favor of separating teaching from assessment. It would help us identify the teachers that truly are bad at their jobs if their students cannot pass general exams. The trade-off I DON'T like is that the impulse would be to administer multiple choice exams and those tell us very little about what students have really learned. If you could have independent assessments using written exams, papers, and other assignments, I would be completely on board and I think you would see students and teachers both try much harder at what they are suppose to be doing.

In the cases I'm citing a professor at a college not to be named was called into the Dean's office for having a class grade average of a 'C' level. He was told this was unacceptable.

The teacher no longer work there because he quit soon after. He told me it was directly related to pressure by the administration to artificially inflate grades or lower his grading standards.

My sister used this for my niece and you know what? She's a pretty sharp kid. Whether that had to do with Baby Einstein or not is ridiculous, because her upbringing has been phenomenal.

It reminds me of my other sister (who's a High School teacher). She had a student that rarely showed up for class, didn't do the work, didn't even hand in assignments and surprise! was getting failing grades. The parents complained. Turns out the parents were rarely even home, always on trips outside the country, etc. So, my sister sat them all down, explained in very clear detail what the girl had to do to pass the course. She had this assignment, this assignment and this assignment. Very clear instructions, both spoken AND e-mailed. I believe she even type it all out and handed it to the girl, personally. Basically, she bent over backwards to help this girl in every way possible.

Her reward? The girl didn't do any of the work, didn't hand in anything and my sister was basically forced to fail her.

And the parents complained, calling for her job, demanding the School Board fire her, etc. It didn't happen, because my sister had copies of all the instructions and the parents had no case to argue.

Dave said:

In the cases I'm citing a professor at a college not to be named was called into the Dean's office for having a class grade average of a 'C' level. He was told this was unacceptable.

The teacher no longer work there because he quit soon after. He told me it was directly related to pressure by the administration to artificially inflate grades or lower his grading standards.

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Sadly it's stuff like this that caused HS diplomas in this country to become nearly worthless, and the values of a college degree to drop.

This is just silly.

Cajungal said:

This is just silly.

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As silly as the grandmother who sued Rockstar because she bought her 4-year old grandson Grand Theft Auto?

ThatNickGuy;283615][quote=Cajungal said:

This is just silly.

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As silly as the grandmother who sued Rockstar because she bought her 4-year old grandson Grand Theft Auto?[/QUOTE]

Jeez.

Dave said:

In the cases I'm citing a professor at a college not to be named was called into the Dean's office for having a class grade average of a 'C' level. He was told this was unacceptable.

The teacher no longer work there because he quit soon after. He told me it was directly related to pressure by the administration to artificially inflate grades or lower his grading standards.

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This is why it's good to be tenure.

Dave said:

In the cases I'm citing a professor at a college not to be named was called into the Dean's office for having a class grade average of a 'C' level. He was told this was unacceptable.

The teacher no longer work there because he quit soon after. He told me it was directly related to pressure by the administration to artificially inflate grades or lower his grading standards.

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At my university, the administration is worried about students getting Cs too but they seem to focus on trying to find ways to assist the students instead of changing the instructors. Maybe it is because they have a strong union here but I think it is because the department chairs tend to support the decisions of the instructors. Department chairs are instructors too, after all.

Covar;283597][quote=Dave said:

In the cases I'm citing a professor at a college not to be named was called into the Dean's office for having a class grade average of a 'C' level. He was told this was unacceptable.

The teacher no longer work there because he quit soon after. He told me it was directly related to pressure by the administration to artificially inflate grades or lower his grading standards.

Click to expand...

Sadly it's stuff like this that caused HS diplomas in this country to become nearly worthless, and the values of a college degree to drop.[/QUOTE]

College is the new high school.

Actually, to me anyway, it seems like trade-skill jobs are paying a lot better and are easier to find anymore, compared to starting at specialized B.A./B.S. degree jobs, which had a HUGE spike of competition in the 80s-90's. To land a 'great' job post-undergrad anymore requires a ton of networking, contacts, and accomplishments.

Chazwozel said:

This is why it's good to be tenure.

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Not always. My sister (the teacher) worked with a tenure professor in the Poli-Sci department while working on her masters.

She told me how for the first class of every year, he would stand at the front and say, "Would all the women in the class please cross their legs. Now that the Gates of Hell have closed, we can begin."

True story.

As a college kid working towards his B.S., I definitely agree about the need for a good network of contacts in order to land a job. I've landed almost all of my jobs/internships by talking to people that I know. My dad and I talk about this a lot, but even though being a tradesman may not always be the sexiest job, you won't have to worry about being outsourced to India and there will always be demand. I think that as more and more people move away from the trades, the remaining trademen will see the demand (and value) for their skills continue to increase.

makare1 said:

That's why I have always said that the only reason Baby Einstein, eating dinner together or listening to classical music seems to work is because it is mostly done by parents who are actually paying attention to their kids. Kids with involved parents are more likely to succeed. Parents that only have minimal interest in their child's development can try to supplement their nonchalant parenting style with Babies Einstein and Bach but it won't do any good.

A mom who reads to her kid and talks to him while listening to AC/DC is a better parent than the one who just plays Mozart while not interacting with him in any other significant way.

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Thank you! Amen! etc. I bought some of these videos for my son when he was a baby. He loved them. I certainly didn't expect them to make him exceptional, but it gave me a hand in having things to talk to him about before he could talk back to me ("See the doggy? Woof woof doggy!"). Sure it was a good thing when I needed to keep him occupied while I did something else, but I didn't rely on the videos constantly or leave him in front of the tv for hours. People generally don't understand that there is a difference between using tv as a babysitter and watching tv along with your kids, then talking about what you're watching. That interaction with your child, whether it's talking about something on tv or playing games or coloring pictures, is going to have more of an effect than expecting them to get something out of doing anything alone.

I can see the parents wanting a refund for buying into the hype generated by Disney. They promised the moon and sold the folks a pebble. There is no get rich quick going on here, they only have to refund up to 4 DVD's per family.

sixpackshaker said:

I can see the parents wanting a refund for buying into the hype generated by Disney. They promised the moon and sold the folks a pebble. There is no get rich quick going on here, they only have to refund up to 4 DVD's per family.

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So because the parents are dumb-asses Disney should have to pay?

Covar;283642][quote=sixpackshaker said:

I can see the parents wanting a refund for buying into the hype generated by Disney. They promised the moon and sold the folks a pebble. There is no get rich quick going on here, they only have to refund up to 4 DVD's per family.

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So because the parents are dumb-asses Disney should have to pay?[/QUOTE]

No, because they lied to the parents, they should give the parents their money back.

sixpackshaker said:

No, because they lied to the parents, they should give the parents their money back.

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They lied to the parents?

I really hope you're being highly sarcastic here. :bush:

sixpackshaker said:

No, because they lied to the parents, they should give the parents their money back.

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Awesome! That logic is going to earn me a lot of money back!

Movie studios that hype "the greatest movie of all time" in their commercials.
Novels that hype it as the "next War & Peace".
Comics that say that "nothing will ever be the same again".
Game developers that say their game is going to amazing.

Hot digity, I'm gonna be rich from all these companies and their hyperbole to sell their product.

ThatNickGuy;283668][quote=sixpackshaker said:

No, because they lied to the parents, they should give the parents their money back.

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Awesome! That logic is going to earn me a lot of money back!

Movie studios that hype "the greatest movie of all time" in their commercials.
Novels that hype it as the "next War & Peace".
Comics that say that "nothing will ever be the same again".
Game developers that say their game is going to amazing.

Hot digity, I'm gonna be rich from all these companies and their hyperbole to sell their product.[/QUOTE]

If you can get rich by getting your money back, you don't deserve to be rich.

sixpackshaker;283671][quote=ThatNickGuy;283668][quote=sixpackshaker said:

No, because they lied to the parents, they should give the parents their money back.

Click to expand...

Awesome! That logic is going to earn me a lot of money back!

Movie studios that hype "the greatest movie of all time" in their commercials.
Novels that hype it as the "next War & Peace".
Comics that say that "nothing will ever be the same again".
Game developers that say their game is going to amazing.

Hot digity, I'm gonna be rich from all these companies and their hyperbole to sell their product.[/QUOTE]

If you can get rich by getting your money back, you don't deserve to be rich.[/QUOTE]

If you can expect 4 dvds to make your child super smart you don't deserve a refund.

Do some research realize that not everyone is 'smart or a genius' and some may have to work at it, and have parents work for it.

The promises mean nothing because unless it negatively effected their child or it made scientific claims that are now refuted I don't think they have a leg to stand on.

Its like sueing boflex because your fat ass still eats 6 quarts of icecream and only excercises 10 mins a day twice a week.

sixpackshaker said:

If you can get rich by getting your money back, you don't deserve to be rich.

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Think of all the products that you've bought. I mean, every product; not just entertainment. Cleaning products, clothing, condoms, vehicles, fast food, etc.

Everything that is sold is hyped. If I successfully sued every company that hyped, or especially overhyped, their product to sell it, I WOULD be filthy rich.

ThatNickGuy;283677][quote=sixpackshaker said:

If you can get rich by getting your money back, you don't deserve to be rich.

Click to expand...

Think of all the products that you've bought. I mean, every product; not just entertainment. Cleaning products, clothing, condoms, vehicles, fast food, etc.

Everything that is sold is hyped. If I successfully sued every company that hyped, or especially overhyped, their product to sell it, I WOULD be filthy rich.[/QUOTE]

To be fair if they negatively effected the person using or if they made false claims like i dunno "cures x" and doesn't and you get sicker cause you beleived it. Then maybe people have a case, but still.

I thought I saw a study not too long ago that the classical music idea doesn't work. Meaning the brain was only stimulated for a very brief time after listening to classical music. Also, I think the study that was cited to sell all those CDs conducted the study on adults not infants. I'll see if I can find those sources.

My mom played Beethoven/Bach/Hadyn and my dad played Bob Wills, and Hank Williams Sr., while I was growing up. They weren't trying to make me smarter. I think they wanted me to pick a side.

ThatNickGuy;283677][quote=sixpackshaker said:

If you can get rich by getting your money back, you don't deserve to be rich.

Click to expand...

Think of all the products that you've bought. I mean, every product; not just entertainment. Cleaning products, clothing, condoms, vehicles, fast food, etc.

Everything that is sold is hyped. If I successfully sued every company that hyped, or especially overhyped, their product to sell it, I WOULD be filthy rich.[/QUOTE]

Generally, when stuff does not work as advertised, you get your money back. That is what corporate lawyers and PR departments are for, to be sure the claims are valid. Disney finally said that there is not any educational value in these educational products and offered some of the money back.

---------- Post added at 06:40 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:37 PM ----------

http://ecochildsplay.com/2009/10/24/disney-admits-baby-einstein-does-not-increase-intelligence/

In fact, a research study reported on in Time magazine states,

…with every hour per day spent watching baby DVDs and videos, infants learned six to eight fewer new vocabulary words than babies who never watched the videos. These products had the strongest detrimental effect on babies 8 to 16 months old, the age at which language skills are starting to form.

Click to expand...

sixpackshaker;283688][quote=ThatNickGuy;283677][quote=sixpackshaker said:

If you can get rich by getting your money back, you don't deserve to be rich.

Click to expand...

Think of all the products that you've bought. I mean, every product; not just entertainment. Cleaning products, clothing, condoms, vehicles, fast food, etc.

Everything that is sold is hyped. If I successfully sued every company that hyped, or especially overhyped, their product to sell it, I WOULD be filthy rich.[/QUOTE]

Generally, when stuff does not work as advertised, you get your money back. That is what corporate lawyers and PR departments are for, to be sure the claims are valid. Disney finally said that there is not any educational value in these educational products and offered some of the money back.

---------- Post added at 06:40 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:37 PM ----------

http://ecochildsplay.com/2009/10/24/disney-admits-baby-einstein-does-not-increase-intelligence/

In fact, a research study reported on in Time magazine states,

…with every hour per day spent watching baby DVDs and videos, infants learned six to eight fewer new vocabulary words than babies who never watched the videos. These products had the strongest detrimental effect on babies 8 to 16 months old, the age at which language skills are starting to form.

Click to expand...

[/QUOTE]

Are you posting while high?

In my understanding, the refunds are coming because the claim was made by the manufacturer that the videos would make your kid smarter, not because of title misunderstanding. That's not a subjective statement like, "most amazing movie of all time" or "the next War and Peace". That's a testable, objective claim, and it failed the test.

fade said:

In my understanding, the refunds are coming because the claim was made by the manufacturer that the videos would make your kid smarter, not because of title misunderstanding. That's not a subjective statement like, "most amazing movie of all time" or "the next War and Peace". That's a testable, objective claim, and it failed the test.

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It's a get rich quick scheme is what it is. But I suppose you're right in that regard.

Chazwozel said:

Are you posting while high?

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It is what you should ask the people that defend false advertising.

fade said:

In my understanding, the refunds are coming because the claim was made by the manufacturer that the videos would make your kid smarter, not because of title misunderstanding. That's not a subjective statement like, "most amazing movie of all time" or "the next War and Peace". That's a testable, objective claim, and it failed the test.

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How is "smarter" quantifiable? "Smarter than if he hadn't watched" you can test for...But undoubtedly, your children WILL have gotten smarter than if they'd been, say, sleeping.

fade said:

In my understanding, the refunds are coming because the claim was made by the manufacturer that the videos would make your kid smarter, not because of title misunderstanding. That's not a subjective statement like, "most amazing movie of all time" or "the next War and Peace". That's a testable, objective claim, and it failed the test.

Click to expand...

It is not the claim of smarter, it is that it will increase your child's vocabulary. Then it turns out to be detrimental to children's vocabulary.

missing a key word.

"help develop your baby’s understanding of what numbers mean."

drawn_inward said:

My mom played Beethoven/Bach/Hadyn and my dad played Bob Wills, and Hank Williams Sr., while I was growing up. They weren't trying to make me smarter. I think they wanted me to pick a side.

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Sound slike my house. My mom played classical music, gospel, and old Motown. My dad played rock and country. I don't know if or how any of that had an effect on my IQ, but I do like a wide range of music.

The suit isn't based on general dissatisfaction. It's based on specific advertising messages on the packaging and in commercials that make claims that it specifically increases learning and learning capability, as well as being ideal for saving the parents' time by plopping the kid down in front of the TV.

http://www.commercialfreechildhood.org/babyvideos/ftccomplaint.htm

It seems pretty clear Disney stepped over the line separating hype and false advertising.

I think you should play "Rock me Amadeus" to babies.
Just saying.

blotsfan said:

I think you should play "Rock me Amadeus" to babies.
Just saying.

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Hey, no life is so enriched as one that has been touched by Falco.

In my second job I tutor kids in math, pre-algebra to trig, and I'm more than used to being screamed at by parents who's kids still fail miserably.

Why? Because the kids and the parents expect me to be some kind of magic cure-all. I had to tell two parents today that despite my best efforts, their son would not be doing well in Calculus, because he never does ANY work I assign him and simply wants me to do it all for him.

Parents are obsessed with the idea that if they spend a lot of money on something, it has to work...and sometimes it just isn't the case at all.

That's the biggest problem. Everyone thinks that their child is a genius, and never wants to accept that the majority of children are merely average. The problem is the culture that tells us being average is a BAD thing.

And everyone is looking for an easy solution to everything. Want to lose weigh? Take this pill. Want to look like Jessica Alba? Drink this super-charged vitamin water. Want your kid to be smart? Watch these videos!

I also hate how kids today need to be constantly stimulated mentally. Parents are basically told that a baby that is not surrounded by toys is destined for a life of mental mediocrity. I really think that is part of why so many kids are diagnosed with ADD. I know there are really kids with ADD but I think alot of the kids diagnosed are just victims of the need for constant stimulation. They never learn to sit quietly and reflect. Down time is a good thing, that is how we build an attention span.

I hope that makes sense.

It's the instant gratification culture that's been built up for quite some time now. In one of the movie threads this was illustrated very well, when someone pointed out that most older movies are boring because they didn't have a constant stream of action.

makare1 said:

I also hate how kids today need to be constantly stimulated mentally. Parents are basically told that a baby that is not surrounded by toys is destined for a life of mental mediocrity. I really think that is part of why so many kids are diagnosed with ADD. I know there are really kids with ADD but I think alot of the kids diagnosed are just victims of the need for constant stimulation. They never learn to sit quietly and reflect. Down time is a good thing, that is how we build an attention span.

I hope that makes sense.

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I think this is true. And it's also that when kids are encouraged, they're encouraged TO DEATH. I loved to draw as a kid, and I did it on my own, whatever I wanted. My parents didn't immediately enroll me in art classes to try and get me to hone my gift. I had other talents that I was working to develop. I drew doodles and sketches to relax, and they didn't try to make it anything other than that.