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Ok so I am currently attending a community college and getting an Associates in Liberal Arts, I am planning on transferring to St. Ambrose University here in my home town and they have a 2 plus 2 program where you the gen eds at the community college all count when you transfer...

Now I was planning on getting a Bathelors in Computer Network Administration but lately I have been thinking about changing my major. I have always loved space since I was little kid and dreamed of going to MIT and becoming a theoretical physicist but I didn't think I was smart enough so I just went with the computer stuff... Now I am thinking about changing what I want to do next year. I am thinking about double majoring in Astronomy and Physics, my only problem is... with the networking degree I could get a job at John Deere here locally but I don't know where I would go for physics work... Locally or nationally.

Honestly I am not even sure what an astronomer or physicist does on a daily basis. I guess you could be a professor, researcher, or work for NASA or something. I am googling stuff at the moment but if anyone knows anything about the Astronomy of Physics fields and could chime in that would be appreciated.

Teach, work at private companies that do space research/travel, get grants and do scientist-ey stuff, work for the govt, teach.

Funny thing, I changed my major from physics to computer science

Denbrought said:

Teach, work at private companies that do space research/travel, get grants and do scientist-ey stuff, work for the govt, teach.

Funny thing, I changed my major from physics to computer science

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Not uncommon.

I left Computer Science in the dust when the glut of dot com layoffs happened; entered into Economics and never looked back. Helped a lot in my job as a research manager at a bank. I kind of get the best of both worlds, comp sci and econ.

Go with the major that will get you the career that would make you the most happy. Money doesn't matter. Cliche but true. You will find undertaking a task will be much easier if you have a passion for it. Also if the job you want also happens to make you a good amount of money, then thats even better. :slywink:

I changed from computer science to biological sciences, now working in marine science.

You could work in planetariums or science museums, or do your own tv/radio/web show.

HoboNinja said:

Ok so I am currently attending a community college and getting an Associates in Liberal Arts, I am planning on transferring to St. Ambrose University here in my home town and they have a 2 plus 2 program where you the gen eds at the community college all count when you transfer...

Now I was planning on getting a Bathelors in Computer Network Administration but lately I have been thinking about changing my major. I have always loved space since I was little kid and dreamed of going to MIT and becoming a theoretical physicist but I didn't think I was smart enough so I just went with the computer stuff... Now I am thinking about changing what I want to do next year. I am thinking about double majoring in Astronomy and Physics, my only problem is... with the networking degree I could get a job at John Deere here locally but I don't know where I would go for physics work... Locally or nationally.

Honestly I am not even sure what an astronomer or physicist does on a daily basis. I guess you could be a professor, researcher, or work for NASA or something. I am googling stuff at the moment but if anyone knows anything about the Astronomy of Physics fields and could chime in that would be appreciated.

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double major in astronomy or physics...
What about a degree in astrophysics?

You're going to statistically have a harder time finding a job with a degree in physics than compared to a more practical IT degree or engineering.

A lot more careers for physics majors are theoretical, education-based, and research, if you want to do more hands-on stuff, you'll have to get lucky (which isn't impossible).

Also, a lot of the best jobs would be government-based.

I'm not saying this because I'm a geology professor or anything, but what about geology? You can do a little bit of everything, including physics, chemistry, and astronomy. Plus, you can get a job. If you like, you can get one working outdoors in exotic locations. My last master's student signed on with an oil company for over 100K, plus a signing bonus. (Which is WAAAY more than I make, but I don't do what I do for the money.)

Or better yet, petroleum engineering.
Beats out the #2 most profitable major directly out of college by 20%

Get to go to...oil barges....and the middle east!

fade said:

I'm not saying this because I'm a geology professor or anything, but what about geology? You can do a little bit of everything, including physics, chemistry, and astronomy. Plus, you can get a job. If you like, you can get one working outdoors in exotic locations. My last master's student signed on with an oil company for over 100K, plus a signing bonus. (Which is WAAAY more than I make, but I don't do what I do for the money.)

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I worked at the Mars Space Flight Facility at ASU for a school year and a lot of the researchers in the building had geology degrees. I don't think there was a single physics degree in the entire department. Besides the geologists, there were a lot of computer programmers as well. If you were interested in working for NASA on any of their Martian or Lunar projects, either of those degrees would be a good way to go.

Koko said:

Or better yet, petroleum engineering.
Beats out the #2 most profitable major directly out of college by 20%

Get to go to...oil barges....and the middle east!

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I'm biased, because we have an ongoing rivalry with PE (who send a bunch of their students up to our classes--especially mine), but I think PE is boring as hell. It's all about the technical side of getting oil out of the...ZzzzzZZZzzzz...

oh, sorry. Fell asleep talking about it.

How is geology less boring?
(no sarcasm, curious.)

Where do you teach, by the way?

Well, its subjective of course, but geology isn't some narrow technical field devoted to removing petroleum from the ground (being facetious of course). It's the closest thing out there to a "holistic" science. Or, it's the jack-of-all-trades of sciences. It's all about learning how the world around you works, which means you learn the stuff specific to geology, but you also learn physics and chemistry and biology. Or, if you like, geology is like reading the last page of a book and inferring the story that lead up to it, often by reading back through the mutilated older pages that you can find scattered around. Worse yet, the beginning of the book has been burned away completely.

I'm at University of Louisiana (at Lafayette) right now.

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Also, if you're a PE, more power to you. Everyone loves what they love.

If you can handle the math, I'd also say go for an engineering degree. Every engineer I know makes tons of dough.

A friend of mine started at $65,000 with a BS in computer engineering 1 month after graduation.

cha-cha-ching
12 of the top 15 money-making majors out of college are math-based.

If you're considering any scientific discipline, you need to go ahead and purge "locally" out of your mind. Otherwise, don't bother.

Well yeah I figure with the science I wouldn't have a job in Iowa. There are some observatories around, the college I am transferring to has one like an hour away but yeah not a lot of the job stuff around here.


As for theoretical, research stuff... that actually sounds fun to me. I have had basic physics courses you know with motion and friction and all that stuff but I am way more interested in theoretical physics. Michio Kaku and Brian Greene are like my heroes.

So for NASA like geology? I might take a class in it to check out if I like it first, I actually thought about it for awhile after watching a video on the grand canyon but I am not sure if that's what I would want to do.

I could always pull a Neil deGrasse Tyson and get a BA in Physics, MA in Astronomy, and PhD in Astrophysics

Just don't lock yourself out of your home.

fade said:

I'm not saying this because I'm a geology professor or anything, but what about geology? You can do a little bit of everything, including physics, chemistry, and astronomy. Plus, you can get a job. If you like, you can get one working outdoors in exotic locations. My last master's student signed on with an oil company for over 100K, plus a signing bonus. (Which is WAAAY more than I make, but I don't do what I do for the money.)

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I was going to actually suggest geology. Thar be a lot of government work available in geology.

As for astrophysics. I don't want to be the party pooper, but you're going to be competing with people that are smarter than Einstein when it comes time to find a job. Physics is a HIGHLY INSANELY competitive field, and the top dawgs are the one's that do any cool shit.

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Jake said:

If you're considering any scientific discipline, you need to go ahead and purge "locally" out of your mind. Otherwise, don't bother.

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This too. I got EXTREMELY lucky in that I found a job that was 100 miles from my current home and I can take the train to work. Normally a Ph.D. track scientist will post-doc half way across the country from where he/she did his grad work.

Hmm I will have to think about it and research it some more, geology just doesn't sound as exciting to me.

I have had a love of Space and Physics since I saw an interview with Michio Kaku on Tech TV when I was 11 or 12.

Forum won't let me edit my post

but yeah...

I am planning on applying at both Iowa State and St. Ambrose and a couple more with decent physics programs in the general area just in case. But yeah I am wanting to do a BS in Physics with a minor in Astronomy and if I do well enough apply for the Astrophysics graduate program.

HoboNinja said:

Hmm I will have to think about it and research it some more, geology just doesn't sound as exciting to me.

I have had a love of Space and Physics since I saw an interview with Michio Kaku on Tech TV when I was 11 or 12.

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I say go for the switch and see where it takes you. Two and a half years ago I was an English major, and switched into biological sciences because I liked the idea of it; now I'm hopefully going onto a PhD next year in neuroscience.

Although it's not the easiest, the best thing I think you can do is just take the plunge and feel it out. A lot of overlapping disciplines/interdisciplinary programs are similar enough to where someone without experience might not be able to tell the difference (example being when I started, I wasn't sure if I wanted cell/molecular biology, biochemistry, or bioengineering, because all of them sounded fairly similar). You'll always wonder "what if" if you don't, and it's better to be doing what you want to, rather than the "safe" option. If it's meant for you, that passion and drive WILL sustain you (although, if you go the research track, you will find the same problems that drive you are also the ones driving you insane a good chunk of the time ).

If you think you want to go the research route, try to get some research experience while you're still an undergraduate. Not only is it virtually a requirement for graduate school (most places say 'strongly recommended', but every place I've talked to has said it's a major factor), but it helps you figure out a) if you're cut out for research, and b) if this is the research for you. There's a HUGE subset of fields in any discipline, and--regardless of the university you attend--there'll more than likely be a wide variety of research options for you.

Finally, in regards to the "I didn't feel I was smart enough" comment, remember the phrase, "Heights of great men reached and kept were not attained by sudden flight but rather, while their companions slept, were toiling through the night." You'll do fine

Why not change to Philosophy?

You'll meet lots of exciting new people who live in their parents basement, listen only to the bits of lectures that justify their own life choices and opinions. The faculty will probably demean you for even sitting in the same class as said other people, but then refuse to acknowledge that you are trying to be a genuine human being.

All the way through, when people ask what you're going to school for, you can abashedly tell them 'Philosophy' which always elicits responses of pity and/or judgment. They will ask you what you can 'do' with a degree in philosophy, and you will have several years to come up with clever responses. My favorite responses are "understand philosophy," "not be an ignorant slut," "drive a cab," "deliver pizza," or "commit suicide."

At first, I tried to explain why their concern about what I can do with philosophy is a symptom of a very broken, utilitarian culture, but I've since described it as Moism, a Chinese philosophy, because it makes me sound more educated, more exotic, and at the end of it all, the person I'm speaking to rarely understands or cares anyhow.

At the end of your degree, you will be an educated man in a culture that holds ignorance near and dear to it's heart. And the world will reward you for your ideals by providing you with a uniform, team atmosphere, flexible hours, and 50% off meals at your nearest fast food joint.

HoboNinja said:

Hmm I will have to think about it and research it some more, geology just doesn't sound as exciting to me.

I have had a love of Space and Physics since I saw an interview with Michio Kaku on Tech TV when I was 11 or 12.

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I guess it depends on what you mean by exciting. Sure, geology doesn't have the nerd-sexy that astrophysics does, but it does have day-to-day excitement. Plus, it's got the whole CSI aspect to it, since you can pick up and test your evidence. If you mean personal excitement, then go for the one that speaks to you more.

For the record, I'm actually a geophysicist. It's an offshoot of geology that's much more theoretical, physical, and mathematical, if that's your thing. That's where things like seismology and study of the earth's gravity and magnetic fields fall.

Enresshou that quote is awesome!

Thanks guys for all the advice, I am trying to weigh my options. I am probably going to set up a campus visit to Iowa State, not sure when I will have time to make the 3 hour drive to Ames with work and school but I will do it. I will talk to the professors about my possibilities and look into the geology aspect.

Rob King said:

Why not change to Philosophy?

You'll meet lots of exciting new people who live in their parents basement, listen only to the bits of lectures that justify their own life choices and opinions. The faculty will probably demean you for even sitting in the same class as said other people, but then refuse to acknowledge that you are trying to be a genuine human being.

All the way through, when people ask what you're going to school for, you can abashedly tell them 'Philosophy' which always elicits responses of pity and/or judgment. They will ask you what you can 'do' with a degree in philosophy, and you will have several years to come up with clever responses. My favorite responses are "understand philosophy," "not be an ignorant slut," "drive a cab," "deliver pizza," or "commit suicide."

At first, I tried to explain why their concern about what I can do with philosophy is a symptom of a very broken, utilitarian culture, but I've since described it as Moism, a Chinese philosophy, because it makes me sound more educated, more exotic, and at the end of it all, the person I'm speaking to rarely understands or cares anyhow.

At the end of your degree, you will be an educated man in a culture that holds ignorance near and dear to it's heart. And the world will reward you for your ideals by providing you with a uniform, team atmosphere, flexible hours, and 50% off meals at your nearest fast food joint.

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Philosophy major high-five! Oh yeah!

fade said:

I guess it depends on what you mean by exciting. Sure, geology doesn't have the nerd-sexy that astrophysics does, but it does have day-to-day excitement. Plus, it's got the whole CSI aspect to it, since you can pick up and test your evidence. If you mean personal excitement, then go for the one that speaks to you more.

For the record, I'm actually a geophysicist. It's an offshoot of geology that's much more theoretical, physical, and mathematical, if that's your thing. That's where things like seismology and study of the earth's gravity and magnetic fields fall.

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You look like a student that graduated from my school about three years ago in that picture. I felt like derailing.

Bubble181 said:

Philosophy major high-five! Oh yeah!

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Awww yeaah!

LAW! Go into Law and Medicine like me!

Seriously though, once I'm out of the army's mandatory tour of service as a surgeon, I hope to use my two doctorates to work for the FBI's psychiatric unit, odd as that sounds. Or possibly a Medical Examiner

fade said:

I guess it depends on what you mean by exciting. Sure, geology doesn't have the nerd-sexy that astrophysics does, but it does have day-to-day excitement. Plus, it's got the whole CSI aspect to it, since you can pick up and test your evidence. If you mean personal excitement, then go for the one that speaks to you more.

For the record, I'm actually a geophysicist. It's an offshoot of geology that's much more theoretical, physical, and mathematical, if that's your thing. That's where things like seismology and study of the earth's gravity and magnetic fields fall.

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I think geology is probably one of the most exciting branches of science. You get down and dirty. The only thing probably more exciting is environmental biology disciplines. Actually, physics, especially, astrophysics and astronomy are probably the most drop dead boring science fields out there. They do math all day and analyze light spectra. And believe me, there is A LOT of math. Oh god, Physics 390 memories.... THE HORROR! THE HORROR!

...actually physical chemistry sucked a hard one the most...

WolfOfOdin said:

LAW! Go into Law and Medicine like me!

Seriously though, once I'm out of the army's mandatory tour of service as a surgeon, I hope to use my two doctorates to work for the FBI's psychiatric unit, odd as that sounds. Or possibly a Medical Examiner

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I'm sure you know this, but you're basically awesome.

WolfOfOdin said:

LAW! Go into Law and Medicine like me!

Seriously though, once I'm out of the army's mandatory tour of service as a surgeon, I hope to use my two doctorates to work for the FBI's psychiatric unit, odd as that sounds. Or possibly a Medical Examiner

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Damn you! That's what I wanted to do, but my wife wouldn't let me go to law school after I got my Ph.D.!

Chazwozel said:

I think geology is probably one of the most exciting branches of science. You get down and dirty. The only thing probably more exciting is environmental biology disciplines. Actually, physics, especially, astrophysics and astronomy are probably the most drop dead boring science fields out there. They do math all day and analyze light spectra. And believe me, there is A LOT of math. Oh god, Physics 390 memories.... THE HORROR! THE HORROR!

...actually physical chemistry sucked a hard one the most...

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I think Math is fun...


I didn't do so hot my first year of college in Physics or Calculus (I had them both at the same time and didn't really do the homework).... but I am honestly really wanting to do this and I think I have the want enough to give myself the drive to work my ass off and do this. I have got by in life doing the minimum and being lazy but damnit this is something I really really want to do in my life and I am going to work at it.

Some background and more info though:

I was, oddly enough an art major when I first started at college, but switched due to both not getting along with the faculty and the air of pompous jackassery that the students exuded. When changing majors, meet some of the faculty who'll be teaching your classes and make sure you get along with them.

I have only had a problem with 1 teacher, and he was a racist pompous asshole English teacher who thought our papers were shit if they weren't written in the exact style he liked and would rewrite our sections of our papers himself to show it how it was "meant" to be done.

My friend hated our American Government professor but I didn't, we disagreed completely politically, he was a bleeding heart super-liberal, but I actually liked it. It was fun to debate in the class.

Besides that, my only problems were that my Physics prof was Indian and very hard to understand, and I just started my Philosophy class and the prof is from Nigeria and even harder to understand but you become accustomed to their accents after awhile.

HoboNinja said:

I think Math is fun...


I didn't do so hot my first year of college in Physics or Calculus (I had them both at the same time and didn't really do the homework).... but I am honestly really wanting to do this and I think I have the want enough to give myself the drive to work my ass off and do this. I have got by in life doing the minimum and being lazy but damnit this is something I really really want to do in my life and I am going to work at it.

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Possibly a bit of bad news, but were your courses calc-based physics or just 'physics'? I know a lot of schools around here (not sure if it's the norm, though I'd imagine so) differentiate between them, and a lot of schools require the calc-based physics to proceed.

Totally second WolfOfOdin's suggestion of getting to know your professors. It's killing two birds with one stone: you're getting to know them and their research better (it's how I got into the two labs I'm currently doing research, actually), and you're going to need letters of recommendation when/if you apply to graduate school.

That being said, you sound like me when I switched mine two and a half years ago, so you're in for a ride. Class is often interesting, and--with the right professors--friggin' awesome. Doesn't happen too often, but there were times I was reading the textbook and going, "COOL!!!" the entire time.

It was just the general introductory Physics course and Calculus, two different classes that didn't have anything to with each other really. The math in the physics class was easy I just never did any of my homework and got a lower than ideal grade, where as I withdrew from Calculus or I would have failed because I didn't have the 30+ trigonometric identities(I think thats what they were, it's been 2 years since I took the class heh...) memorized when I entered the class, my pre-calc teacher in high school had them all on a cheat sheet for us because he didn't believe in memorizing formulas, he wanted us to be able to do the work but thought it was ridiculous to remember hundreds of equations for all the shit in the class. Where as my college professor thought it should all be memorized.

So I am planning on taking pre-calc with that professor since she is the only calc teacher at the college and then taking calc again later at ISU or wherever. After I dropped Calculus I just took College Algebra to get my math shit done for my associates, but yeah gonna take pre-calc and then calc again later obviously. Also probably going to retake Physics to get a better grade.

HoboNinja said:

It was just the general introductory Physics course and Calculus, two different classes that didn't have anything to with each other really. The math in the physics class was easy I just never did any of my homework and got a lower than ideal grade, where as I withdrew from Calculus or I would have failed because I didn't have the 30+ trigonometric identities(I think thats what they were, it's been 2 years since I took the class heh...) memorized when I entered the class, my pre-calc teacher in high school had them all on a cheat sheet for us because he didn't believe in memorizing formulas, he wanted us to be able to do the work but thought it was ridiculous to remember hundreds of equations for all the shit in the class. Where as my college professor thought it should all be memorized.

So I am planning on taking pre-calc with that professor since she is the only calc teacher at the college and then taking calc again later at ISU or wherever. After I dropped Calculus I just took College Algebra to get my math shit done for my associates, but yeah gonna take pre-calc and then calc again later obviously. Also probably going to retake Physics to get a better grade.

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For calculus, I found it was easiest to just memorize two or three of the trig identities and then derive the rest of them (been a while since I've taken it, so I'm a bit rusty; but that trick saved my butt more than once). Make sure you have your algebra down pat, and--if a bad professor's a potential factor--use www.ratemyprofessors.com. I find it's reasonably accurate, even though I don't go to a big-name school.

Good to see you have a good idea of what you want to do, though. If you need any help, let me know, and/or I'll see if I can bug one of my physics major friends

He's right. We don't accept the "regular" physics classes as credit for the geo major. You have to take calc-based physics, which are still intro classes, but with more of the calculus (it's still not full-on equations, but it does use basic derivatives and integrals). It's still really easy.

I HATE the way calc is taught. It's one of my number one pet peeves in life. It's always taught as a set of memorized rules rather than what it means. When I teach my graduate classes in geophysics, one of the first things I do is take the time to re-teach calculus. I spend ONE lecture on it, assuming the students know or can look up the rules. When you show them what it means rather than how to do it, a light always flips on.

Odd, I guess I never considered that college-level physics wouldn't be calculus-based. We got reamed with 3D derivatives and surface integrals and other things I probably can't do today.

Calculus was explained a lot better in physics classes relative to calculus classes, I must say.

I did fine mathematically in the Physics course, I just didn't do the homework which was like 40% of our grade. I got a D+, which isn't accepted by most colleges obviously so I am going to retake it.

As for the calculus, I actually had a C+ till about half way through the course were we started needing the trig identities and my grade just kept getting lower and lower because I needed those to do the work further on so I had to drop. But I think if I take her pre-calc class and actually memorize them then I could definitely do better in calc. I got high B to A range grades in all my math prior to that.

I think it is going to be a lot of work sure but I am determined and I want to do this so I am going to try my hardest, and if I still can't do it well then at least I tried.

HoboNinja said:

and if I still can't do it well then at least I tried.

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Ladies and gentlemen, I think our little hoboninja grew up just a little today!

HoboNinja said:

I think it is going to be a lot of work sure but I am determined and I want to do this so I am going to try my hardest, and if I still can't do it well then at least I tried.

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Sure, but after the attempt at sex you should really focus on some physics.

All this fancy number stuff, I'll stick with economics, thanks.

Adammon said:

All this fancy number stuff, I'll stick with economics, thanks.

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Ladies and gentlemen, I present the reason the economy tanked.

Jake said:

Ladies and gentlemen, I present the reason the economy tanked.

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*nods in agreement*

It's more of an art than a science. There's no 1+1=2, there's multipliers based on theoretical human behavior, there's an interplay between millions of independant variables, etc etc.

An economist is no more of a scientist than a weatherman; but at least the weatherman gets it right 50% of the time.

HoboNinja said:

I think Math is fun...


I didn't do so hot my first year of college in Physics or Calculus (I had them both at the same time and didn't really do the homework).... but I am honestly really wanting to do this and I think I have the want enough to give myself the drive to work my ass off and do this. I have got by in life doing the minimum and being lazy but damnit this is something I really really want to do in my life and I am going to work at it.

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I'm just letting you know that it's not easy, and even if you study really hard, you may still not do well. I've seen many people stumble with Physics.

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Jake said:

Odd, I guess I never considered that college-level physics wouldn't be calculus-based. We got reamed with 3D derivatives and surface integrals and other things I probably can't do today.

Calculus was explained a lot better in physics classes relative to calculus classes, I must say.

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I never knew where the hell to start in with physics equations. That was my biggest problem. Thermodynamics is a bitch.

Don't feel bad, Chaz. Thermodynamics is a bitch even for people who end up becoming physicists.

Also, Hobo... If you major in Physics and get you Ph.D in something theoretical like astrophysics or particle phyisics, it will be really, really hard to get a job. You will have to work a lot and maybe not make it even then.

But I can't help telling you to study physics anyway. It's beautiful. Also, if you can then choose some courses on more applied or, at least, experimental physics. It's something completely different and you may or may not like it, but it gives better job options and it's nearer to being an engineer. Sometimes it can be like you are half an engineer and half a phyisicist in what you do at work, but you got to study physics which is very cool, and get paid like an engineer which is very cool too

(I'm going to be a theoretical physicist, but I did explore this option).

I think a major part of the problem with the perceived difficulty of physics is in explanations that rely too heavily on jargon and assumptions that the student already knows X. I've given that enough thought that I've started a wiki devoted to the express purpose of jargon-free explanations of (geo)physical phenomena and related topics. It's at http://egg.louisiana.edu/wiki for anyone interested. It's very empty right now, but I am getting the word out about it.