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So I got an email for the beta. I'm only partially interested.

If anyone else is I will give them my beta slot. If interested, let me know. If multiple submissions I'll pick one at random.

Maybe HC or Jay would be interested?

I vote HC or Jay.

What does the Beta entail? Is it just one person or can I make multiple people join my game session?

In essence, you make or join games to run/play with people who are also in the beta. So you would not be able to run your HF game there. Yet.

Kind of pointless unless we get 6 accounts though I'd like to see how it runs.

You could made a generic Halforums account and we could use it on a first come first served basis (within limits, like don't use it more then 1 hour at a time or something). Mostly because while i'd like to try it i don't have the time for proper beta play so the account would be wasted on me...

I've been given 5 "tokens" which I can use to run/play in a game. So we can't just open it up.

Made any decisions?

Not yet. I was thinking about using one of the tokens to get into a game myself to try it out. Who knows? It may be what brings me back to 4e. Doubtful, though.

Good luck then.

With the way Dave rigs online dice rollers, he won't need luck.

Dave said:

I've been given 5 "tokens" which I can use to run/play in a game. So we can't just open it up.

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Well that blows...

Someone record a session and post it on youtube then... or is there an NDA?

@Li3n said:

Well that blows...

Someone record a session and post it on youtube then... or is there an NDA?

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NDA.

Wizards finally made progress on the virtual tabletop? Pssh, next you'll be telling me we actually got Bin Laden.

Baerdog said:

Wizards finally made progress on the virtual tabletop? Pssh, next you'll be telling me we actually got Bin Laden.

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*whisperwhisper*

Yea, I'm pretty intrigued if it is any good.

Feel free to delete this but here's my feedback thus far.

It's definitely unpolished, very few tiles/pogs available but the interface is very very nice and I can easily see a huge potential than what Gametable can ever offer. Heck, you can even intergrate voice over the client. That's neat. Not much in terms of games available at the moment, so testing will take awhile. If they ever managed to link the online builder with this it would be rocking.

As a DM I can see a lot of potential with this. I wonder what the final thing will be, will every player need to have their own paying subscription for this? Or can a DM pay for a group rate?

It would be pointless if players had to pay monthly payments when we can do it for free elsewhere unless they offer some bells and whistles for their customers?

Hmmmm

Jay said:

Feel free to delete this but here's my feedback thus far.

It's definitely unpolished, very few tiles/pogs available but the interface is very very nice and I can easily see a huge potential than what Gametable can ever offer. Heck, you can even intergrate voice over the client. That's neat. Not much in terms of games available at the moment, so testing will take awhile. If they ever managed to link the online builder with this it would be rocking.

As a DM I can see a lot of potential with this. I wonder what the final thing will be, will every player need to have their own paying subscription for this? Or can a DM pay for a group rate?

It would be pointless if players had to pay monthly payments when we can do it for free elsewhere unless they offer some bells and whistles for their customers?

Hmmmm

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this is what I'm thinking. Maybe if a player who doesn't have an online character option (good old P&P system) and discover that you "can" subscribe and have access to all the materials online, that would be a good enticement, but CAN play if the DM subscribes.

From my understanding, not only does each PLAYER have to have the app, but pogs have to be PURCHASED by the GM. I even heard once (unconfirmed) that you get only a finite number of them, but that could just be bitching. (What I mean by that is someone said if you bought 5 orcs and wanted to use 6 you had to buy more...) Again, that is unconfirmed RUMOR - and doesn't make much sense to me.

That would very lame to have to pay good money for extra pogs.

I agree. But the pricing information is no longer able to be found on the DDi forum. I just looked and all references to planned payment structure is gone.

DDi & D&D 4e has really driven away a lot of people.

Dave said:

DDi & D&D 4e has really driven away a lot of people.

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I like to generalize the problems you mention as the Hasbrozation of RPGing.

My players and I actually like 4e. As a DM it's a whole hell of a lot easier to set up and run encounters than in 3.5. However, I also haven't seen the need for most of the for-pay DDI stuff. My players love character builder though.

See, I hate the fact that all classes are the same. You could literally run a whole campaign with everyone running the same class. All mages? Fine. All fighters? Also fine. No matter who they are they have X Encounter Powers at 1st level, gain 1 Utility power at 2nd level, etc. There's no REASON to run a thief, or a cleric, or....

All characters are geared towards combat. All characters are min/maxed bullshit and I hate it.

NO. No no no. Absolutely not.

In our experience you have to have all the character types covered (leader, defender, striker, controller) or encounters get a whole heck of a lot harder. Each character type definitely has a separate, distinct role on the battlefield and in our experience each class provides a different way of fulfilling those roles.

Out of combat scenarios in our group tend to be governed by skill checks and ad hoc rules, just like it was in 3.5. And frankly, that's all I'm going to say about this right now due to the amount of cocktails I've already had tonight. And it's only 9:30. Welcome to Prague.

Dave said:

All characters are geared towards combat. All characters are min/maxed bullshit and I hate it.

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Just to cheer you up a bit, I play in a campaign and my character of almost three years now does not have an ability score higher than 19, and they are 18th level, which gives you the chance to boost a score about 5 times.

I see your point but personally I like the 4th edition and in fact like it more than I ever liked 3.5.

As someone who roleplays in his games, there are a lot of ways of being unique. The feats you pick, the power and training you choose. Sure, you can have a Wizard who's an expert at theivery but will do so without the advantages that a rogue has. (most wizards aren't dex based). I believe rogue have the training for free while another class will need to spend 1 of their training to pick up the feat to be maybe 75% as good as a rogue can be. then there's feats, background and nifty ways where you can boost such things.

I like it. I also like that no characters suck a dick in combat which can be a drag for a DM who has to go above and beyond to setup things.


As for the DDI, the character builder is great. The online one IS coming along but is still a poor man's version. I can live without D&D essentials and honestly once I find a decent game to join, I'd like to test out this new tabletop. It has a lot of potential but any Hasbro douchbaggery with pay for extra pogs or pay to allows your players to play is going to be a quick "fuck off".

Higher than 19?!? WTF?

Jesus Christ of a pogo stick! A 19 STR is supposed to make Conan weep. A 19 INT is Einstein. A 19 WIS is that little old man on the mountain top dispensing advice to the hearty traveler who seeks him out. And you are bragging that your character ONLY has this?

May as well give him a ring of wishes and tell him what's behind door #2.

Dave said:

See, I hate the fact that all classes are the same. You could literally run a whole campaign with everyone running the same class. All mages? Fine. All fighters? Also fine. No matter who they are they have X Encounter Powers at 1st level, gain 1 Utility power at 2nd level, etc. There's no REASON to run a thief, or a cleric, or....

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Bullshit. The game is built around the 4 different roles. All fighters is able to cover tanking and dealing a lot of damage, but miss out on buffs and debuffs. All mages have debuffs, but have problems with doing a lot of damage. The reason to run a thief is to deal a lot of damage. The reason to run a cleric is for buffs, as well as doing extra damage to undead enemies.

Jay said:

I believe rogue have the training for free while another class will need to spend 1 of their training to pick up the feat to be maybe 75% as good as a rogue can be.

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Level 1 halfling rogue:
+2 from background
+2 halfling bonus
+3 skill focus
+5 training
+5 from dex
17 thievery

Level 1 halfling ranger:
+2 halfling bonus
+3 skill focus
+5 training (from background)
+5 from dex
15 thievery

I might be misremembering that backgrounds can give you skill training. If they can't give training, then the ranger waits until level 2 to be 2 points behind a rogue, as his level 1 feat is skill training and his level 2 feat is skill focus. Anyway, it's closer to 90% effectiveness

Allen who is Quiet said:

Bullshit. The game is built around the 4 different roles. All fighters is able to cover tanking and dealing a lot of damage, but miss out on buffs and debuffs. All mages have debuffs, but have problems with doing a lot of damage. The reason to run a thief is to deal a lot of damage. The reason to run a cleric is for buffs, as well as doing extra damage to undead enemies.

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I already play WoW.

Get more original complaints.

Dave said:

Higher than 19?!? WTF?

Jesus Christ of a pogo stick! A 19 STR is supposed to make Conan weep. A 19 INT is Einstein. A 19 WIS is that little old man on the mountain top dispensing advice to the hearty traveler who seeks him out. And you are bragging that your character ONLY has this?

May as well give him a ring of wishes and tell him what's behind door #2.

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In response to your thoughts on min/maxing most characters start first level with either a single 20 or two 18's. Ability scores just ain't what they used to be. So to have an 18th level character with scores under 20 is definitely a commitment to not min/maxing.

Is there a goat behind door #2 Monty?
Added at: 21:12

Allen who is Quiet said:

Bullshit. The game is built around the 4 different roles. All fighters is able to cover tanking and dealing a lot of damage, but miss out on buffs and debuffs.

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My fighter actually deals terrible, horrible, pathetically low damage, but is good at controlling, not to shabby at healing and is a spectacular meat shield.

Dave said:

I already play WoW.

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I didn't!

I feel that 4.0 is MUCH easier to play than 3.5 or 2.0 BUT it is more of MMORPG style than Pen and Paper. Yes you do need debuff and such but unless the DM really plan to make it "extra hard" to cover all classes, generic quest (I have a few books) can run with a pure team relatively easy. like all cleric or all mages even all fighter. You mix in racial abilities/bonus and you got yourself a "full team" in 4.0

A full class of fighter is weak in 3.5 vs 4.0 I do miss the specialty.

heck, you only need a cleric to get extra heal where everyone can heal (to certain extend) already

Back to DDI tabletop.
Pay for EACH POGS?!?!? what the heck?

HCGLNS said:

My fighter actually deals terrible, horrible, pathetically low damage, but is good at controlling, not to shabby at healing and is a spectacular meat shield.

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With a 19 as your highest score, I'd be surprised if your damage was anywhere near decent.

Allen who is Quiet said:

Get more original complaints.

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I'll stick with the classics.

Dave said:

I'll stick with the classics.

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Would it kill them to put out a nice brisket?

HCGLNS said:

My fighter actually deals terrible, horrible, pathetically low damage, but is good at controlling, not to shabby at healing and is a spectacular meat shield.

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Which is exactly what it's supposed to do. It sounds like you've built yourself a pretty solid fighter there.

Even my two defenders are radically different. My Fighter focuses on survivability above all else but can dish out a mean craghammer to the face. Due to a multiclass feat and battlerager class features she's fairly similar to a striker against her marked target. My Stormwarden is softer in some ways but can mark multiple enemies and control them from a range. As far as mechanics he's much closer to a controller.

Like I said, if you build it, you can do it. 4th edition is very open and many things can be changed to appease any holes a group may have. Should the halfling ranger be built that way? Should the Dwarf fighter be built that way as well? It all depends on the person and the group.

Good? Bad? What does it matter, I'm the dwarf with the craghammer.