Desktop upgrade help - fast and quiet

[KCWM]

My computer needs an upgrade. After doing a quick Google search, it would appear that the computer itself gets poor reviews for speed and performance, something I need if I'm going to use the computer for recording music. There's been some good advice in other threads, so I'd figure I'd start my own for my specific needs.

I currently have a Gateway DX4300-05...at least I'm 90% sure that's the sub model after looking at the specs on CNET. I've upgraded the PSU to a 650w Antec Earthwatts, the video card to an nVidia GTX/S 260, and installed a TI chipset firewire card. I also installed a cooling fan in the back because the video card tends to run the box hot. I'd like to be able to reuse as many parts as I can, but I realize that pre-built computers can utilize some poor parts.

I do not have access to an iso-box for my tower, so quiet is important. I understand that I won't likely be able to get completely silent, especially when dealing with some of the mics I'm going to be using to record, but even a small drop would be great.

I'm using or want to start using the following:

Pro Tools 8/9. With my current set up, I ran into issues with Pro Tools. Seeing as how this is the industry standard and I should be able to upgrade to PT9, I'd like to be able to utilize this. If the cost of getting my computer up to speed ends up being too much, I have a couple of other programs I can use that aren't as resource intensive.

Superior Drummer 2.0. This program can be pretty RAM intensive, with some of the drum settings utilizing over 2GB of RAM of samples (SD2 doesn't utilize disk streaming, if I remember correctly). If my current RAM is good, then great. I'd actually prefer to find a solid motherboard that can utilize that RAM. If the RAM is crappy, then I'd like to aim for a minimum of 6GB, if not 8GB.

I might go back to playing WoW at some point. Previously, my computer could run WoW at 60FPS in 90% of the situations I ran into. This isn't a huge point and I didn't game outside of WoW or Left for Dead 2 when I did play games.

I'm selling a guitar to a friend of mine and will have approximately $400 to spend. Considering that I'm not needing the most current high end stuff out there, I'd like to believe it's not unreasonable. In fact, bang for my buck is the name of the game here. If I need to do more, I can, though I'd like to attempt to keep it around there, which is why I'd like to reuse as much of parts from my current computer, or all of it if possible, if I can.

To summarize, these are the requirements that I suppose come to mind:

- Media Reader (mostly for SD cards). I'm not sure if the one that's currently in my tower is usable, given the odd shape of the tower.
- at least 1 PCI-E slot, though two would be great since there are good PCI-E cards out there for audio recording
- 6-8GB of RAM
- as quiet as possible

Things I'm interested in, but do not require:

- SSD drive. I'm not sure if this would be better as a system drive or getting it strictly for my music files (Pro Tools, Superior Drummer, .wav files, etc).
- USB 3.0. There aren't many interfaces out there that utilize this right now, but as they become more numerous, my FireWire interface might become expendable. As I'm currently using a solid FireWire interface and a PCI FireWire card that has been solid to date, this is definitely not all that important.

 

[Azurephoenix]

Well, since no one else has chimed in... I'll see what I can offer.

First off... what operating system are you running? Xp? Vista? Windows 7 32 or 64 bit? Unless you're running a 64 bit operating system, more than 4 gigabytes of RAM will be a waste.

As for the RAM issue... I couldn't find your exact model using Crucials memory advisor... but all the DX4300's I looked at have 4 memory slots with a max capacity of 2 gigabytes per module for a maximum total of 8 gigabytes. Your computer takes DDR2 memory (PC2-6400 and PC2-8500) and you should be able to fairly easily max it out for around $120.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...06107 600006066&IsNodeId=1&name=4GB (2 x 2GB)

 

[Chibibar]

A quite PC is hard especially if you want to run some newer tech. It generate heat and thus, needs cooling. Liquid cool does help (my wife has it on her machine) it is quieter but not quite.
I don't know if white noise generator pointing toward the PC would work (it should) but I never tested personally. I read it a lot it is use in factory and such.

 

[SpecialKO]

I don't know if white noise generator pointing toward the PC would work (it should) but I never tested personally. I read it a lot it is use in factory and such.

Won't that fill his recordings with white noise?

This is probably a stupid idea, but have you considered covering everything but the vent/fan side of your PC box in cork?
Added at: 15:17
Or possibly Dynamat?

 

[drifter]

Doesn't ProTools come with a noise gate? As long as the mic is a reasonable distance away, and the computer isn't crazy loud, is fan/HDD noise something you really need to worry about?

 

[sixpackshaker]

Also check to see if you can use the larger and slower case fans. Moves the same amount of air with much less noise.

 

[PatrThom]

I might be able to show you a trick I use in Cubase to raise the noise floor a bit. Parts might have to wait (on many other projects ATM).

--Patrick

 

[KCWM]

I'm actually still new to Pro Tools and the last time that I tried to use it, it kind of froze up my computer. That makes me think that I have a bottleneck caused by either the mobo and/or RAM.

Since I'm using a couple of condenser mics, I need to have as quiet of an environment as possible. Since I'm doing most of my recording at apartment levels, I have to crank the gain on my Digi 003, and given how sensitive the condenser mics are, this makes them pick up and magnify so much.

For right now, I'm recording in Adobe Audition and Reaper, but I want to make the move to PT8 and eventually upgrade to PT9.

I'm not in a huge rush Patrick...I appreciate any input. There are so many parts out there and I'm not as familiar with what to look for, especially given what I'm going. I want to say that my current mobo spots a couple of 2.5ghz cores, but if the mobo itself is limiting me, then it does no good. It almost makes me wonder if the cores themselves are good, maybe I could just pick up a mobo and swap in the 2.5ghz cores.

 

[PatrThom]

Processor speed mainly determines the number of simultaneous tracks you can work with or the number of plug-ins you can run before the computer starts to stutter. A dual-core 2.5GHz should easily be able to handle a dozen tracks with a couple plug-ins on each one. If it can't, then you need to find which of the following is holding you back the most: RAM starvation, disk access, or competing processes. Task Manager can answer 1 and 3, but for 2 you'll need to check Performance Monitor. Alternatively, you can try using Process Monitor for all 3. Once you've found your culprit(s), you can address it/them.

As far as minimizing noise, you'd be amazed at the difference some minor environmental modifications can make. I still have a promise to keep about making a recording detailing some of that stuff, still intend to do so, just don't know when.

--Patrick

 

[Necronic]

Remember that there's really no reason the physical computer needs to be near the keyboard and mouse. Using some long cords you can have the computer in a completely different room. This can be expensive for some cables, but assuming you don't demand HDMI you could run those cables for less than 100$.

After looking at the Gateway here's what you should do.

1) GTFO of onboard sound. Onboard sound is fine for gaming and the like, but for anything else it should just DIAF. This is probably the first thing you should do. I'm not pro on sound cards (srsly, only sound card I have is an Aureal Vortex 2 with homebrew drivers) but you should be able to get a good one for 100$. I am 80% sure this is your problem.

2) 6 gb or RAM should be good. That said, it may be worth looking into RAM with a lower CAS latency.

3) You have Vista 64 according to C-Net. Its not a bad OS (haters gonna hate) but you may consider upgrading to Windows 7 64, its going to run smoother.

 

[PatrThom]

Going to a dedicated sound card will reduce CPU usage a smidge. Upgrading to Win7 over Vista is a no-brainer anyway, especially for audio work.

--Patrick

 

[Necronic]

What about using a RAM-drive and loading the samples onto it when you work?

Honestly, that whacky idea aside, I would suggest that you use extension cables to keep as much of the computer away from your recording as you can without seeing a signal loss due to cable length, and dedicating this computer to recording. Just restart it with a clean install of windows 7 64 and don't install anything other than your music stuff on it.

 

[KCWM]

I upgraded to Win 7 over a year ago. I also did a fresh install of Win 7 a few months ago. I should have mentioned both of those facts in my initial posts.

As for on-board sound, the way that I understood it, when I turn on my Digidesign 003, THAT is functioning as my "sound card" when I'm recording. All of my mics run through it, which runs to the TI chipset firewire card I have in an PCI slot, which then runs to the motherboard. When I listen back to tracks, I listen to the headphones that are plugged into the 003. So, if I understand all of that correctly, when recording, I already have my upgrade in the sound card realm. I could be TOTALLY wrong on that, and I'm happy to be educated.

If I am wrong, with the video and firewire card that I have in there now, I think I'd be hard pressed for space to fit a sound card. That's another reason I've considered a new motherboard...especially one that I could simply swap out the 2.5ghz cores into. The reviews I read about the computer indicate that it's underpowered. Unless the cores are bad, that makes me think motherboard, but I could be wrong. It might be the hard drive, and I'm sure there are better ones out there. Here are the stats from Everest Ultimate on my HD:

Field Value
ATA Device Properties
Model ID WDC WD6400AAKS-22A7B2
Serial Number WD-WCASY5443675
Revision 01.03B01
World Wide Name 5-0014EE-1AC6BDC30
Device Type SATA-II
Parameters 1240341 cylinders, 16 heads, 63 sectors per track, 512 bytes per sector
LBA Sectors 1250263728
Buffer 16 MB
Multiple Sectors 16
ECC Bytes 50
Unformatted Capacity 610480 MB
ATA Standard ATA8-ACS

ATA Device Features
48-bit LBA Supported
Advanced Power Management Not Supported
Automatic Acoustic Management Supported, Disabled
Device Configuration Overlay Supported
DMA Setup Auto-Activate Supported, Disabled
General Purpose Logging Supported
Host Protected Area Supported, Enabled
In-Order Data Delivery Not Supported
Native Command Queuing Supported
Phy Event Counters Supported
Power Management Supported, Enabled
Power-Up In Standby Supported, Disabled
Read Look-Ahead Supported, Enabled
Release Interrupt Not Supported
Security Mode Supported, Disabled
SMART Supported, Enabled
SMART Error Logging Supported
SMART Self-Test Supported
Software Settings Preservation Supported, Enabled
Streaming Not Supported
Tagged Command Queuing Not Supported
Write Cache Supported, Enabled

ATA Device Manufacturer
Company Name Western Digital Corporation
Product Information http://www.westerndigital.com/en/products


As I said before, I'd like to be able to reuse the RAM, if it's decent. Everest Ultimate tells me that I have three sticks of Nanya brand RAM. This is all greek to me, but here is the read out of one, according to Everest:

Device Description
DIMM1: Nanya NT2GT64U8HD0BY-AD
Field Value
Memory Module Properties
Module Name Nanya NT2GT64U8HD0BY-AD
Serial Number 06125019h (424677894)
Manufacture Date Week 12 / 2009
Module Size 2 GB (2 ranks, 8 banks)
Module Type Unbuffered DIMM
Memory Type DDR2 SDRAM
Memory Speed DDR2-800 (400 MHz)
Module Width 64 bit
Module Voltage SSTL 1.8
Error Detection Method None
Refresh Rate Reduced (7.8 us), Self-Refresh

Memory Timings
@ 400 MHz 6-6-6-18 (CL-RCD-RP-RAS) / 24-51-3-6-3-3 (RC-RFC-RRD-WR-WTR-RTP)
@ 333 MHz 5-5-5-15 (CL-RCD-RP-RAS) / 20-43-3-5-3-3 (RC-RFC-RRD-WR-WTR-RTP)
@ 266 MHz 4-4-4-12 (CL-RCD-RP-RAS) / 16-34-2-4-2-2 (RC-RFC-RRD-WR-WTR-RTP)

Memory Module Features
Analysis Probe Not Present
FET Switch External Disabled
Weak Driver Supported

Memory Module Manufacturer
Company Name Nanya Technology Corp.
Product Information http://www.nanya.com/index.aspx

 

[PatrThom]

-You are correct regarding the sound card issue. However, if/when you are recording, it may be to your advantage to disable the onboard sound so that the computer doesn't pay any attention to it at all. Likewise, if you are using a dedicated graphics card, you may also want to disable the onboard graphics. This will have the added effect of not having your on-board graphics competing for your RAM bandwidth.

-Your HDD isn't bad, but it does look lonely. Getting a second one to serve as your audio drive will keep your current one from having to shuffle around for program data, OS data, and music data all at the same time. If you dedicate a drive to your audio files (especially a SSD, even a small one), you will relieve a lot of the thrashing of your OS drive.

-Your computer will be able to work more efficiently if you upgrade the memory to a full 8GB. The processor will be able to interleave across all 4 banks. It may have trouble running all 4 chips at 800MHz, though...it might slow them down to 667. This should not really make that much of a difference (so don't worry about it if it happens). Nanya is a reputable memory company.

-You say your computer has a 2.5GHz processor. The only models of DX4300 that I could find that run at 2.5GHz were all quad-core Phenom II X4 chips, while the dual-core ones ran at 2.7GHz instead. Can you use CPU-Z to get the exact processor model and core count? Also, you have a choice to make about your power profile. If it is set to "power-saver" or "balanced," that will keep your CPU from running at full bore all the time, which should be cooler but may introduce skipping/drop-outs during recording as the processor cycles up and down in speed. If you set it to "performance," the CPU will run fast all the time and make more heat, but you won't have to worry as much about it stalling.

...so right now my recommendation is to go into the BIOS and disable the stuff you're not using (integrated graphics and sound - $free), get another HDD to serve as your audio place ($60-$100 or so), and either get another stick of Nanya RAM with the same size and latencies ($unknown) or else sell the RAM you have and get 4 fresh matched sticks (you can get 4 sticks of quality 1.8V 5-5-5-15 Geil DDR2-800 memory for about $120 if you buy 2 2-packs). Total cost there of about $300 or more if you get your card reader or other accessories.

--Patrick

 

[KCWM]

I'll check my processors when I get home. I could have sworn they were wolfingdales or something like that.

As for getting another hard drive, would it be advisable to look into a small SSD drive for my OS system and using the 640gb drive as my audio/music drive? Would my 650w Antec power supply be OK? I assume it will be, but my previous experience in cooking a computer because I added too much stuff makes me ask for affirmation.

I'll see if I can't nail down another 2GB stick of RAM.

Thanks for the extra input Patrick.

 

[PatrThom]

If you're going to go the SSD route, it would probably be better to make that the audio/music drive. The ability of the SSD to (practically) eliminate seek time will do a lot towards upping your track count.

I'll answer your cooking question when you find out which CPU you have.

--Patrick

 

[KCWM]

As it stands right now, in Adobe Audition 3.0 (before I started going legal with my software), my friend and I were able to run something like 20 tracks without an issue. I have a feeling that's going to go up given the fact that I want to layer more guitars in for a varied sound, but I wasn't really experiencing any noticeable slow down. Granted, we weren't using plug ins, but I'm not really that into plug ins at this point in the game, especially for effects. I prefer to get my guitar sounds from my effects and amps.

I might just need to set up PT8 better. I've read that it's pretty hard on Windows machines, so I want to shore up my machine as much as I can, especially if I decide to upgrade my computer in the future for gaming purposes and use this current one as a straight music machine.

I'm not familiar with SSD too much other than I keep reading it's still pretty expensive. I'm curious how much space Superior Drummer and EZ Drummer take up, since I still use both..

 

[drifter]

If time isn't a pressing issue, might be worth keeping an eye on slickdeals.net or fatwallet.com. I've seen decent deals for SSD's show up every now and then. If it comes up on one site, it'll show up on the other sooner or later.

Oh, speak of the devil, right now there's a 64GB SSD at Costco for $70 after a $30 mail-in rebate. Pretty solid deal, I think.

 

[KCWM]

I just bought a stick of RAM that matches my other RAM on eBay. Here's to hoping it's not defective. The seller has good feedback, so I assume I'll be OK.

I'm looking into the SSDs. I'll likely check into that one at Costco, as I have a friend with a membership there. I'll set that up as my OS drive and then use the 640GB HDD for everything else. I need to review what's installed on my computer right now as this might be an opportunity reformat my system and make sure I'm only putting what I need back on there.

 

[Azurephoenix]

What kind of music are you recording?

 

[Joe Johnson]

This site has lots of cool PC quieting items:

http://www.quietpc.com/us-en-usd/home

 

[KCWM]

What kind of music are you recording?

Rock music.

I have a couple of demos up in the artist section. We are going to rerecord it, but there's a rough demo of some music at http://www.coldthewinter.com/music/sofar3b.mp3 and http://www.coldthewinter.com/music/goodbye.mp3

I've changed out a couple of guitars, amps, and effects, so we need to redo these songs.