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Did anyone but me pick up Detective Comics 854, written by Greg Rucka and starring Batwoman?

Because it is fucking terrific

This first issue with Batwoman is more set up than anything, but the writing is still very good and I can't wait to see where it goes. But even more impressive is the art by J.H. Williams III. You've probably seen the amazing covers already, and the interior art completely lives up to those. It is beautiful. Jaw-droppingly gorgeous. What he does with the layouts in this is great.

If you haven't picked this up yet, I HIGHLY recommend it.

Detective Comics is smurfing awesome right now

i herd it sux

Detective Comics is smurfing awesome right now

Le Quack said:

i herd it sux

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whoever told you that is dumb as hell

Detective Comics is smurfing awesome right now

wat

pics or it didn't happen.

:tongue:

Detective Comics is smurfing awesome right now

It is just an overmilked IP and thus, not worth any time.

Detective Comics is smurfing awesome right now

It was good, but not as good Gotham City Sirens.

Detective Comics is smurfing awesome right now

If you want a great showcasing of J.H.Williams' art, I highly recommend Alan Moore's Promethea. I wasn't crazy about the volumes after the third, but that was just because the plot and story went totally south while Moore got on his soapbox to talk about magic.

That said, I can't deny that the whole comic is absolutely gorgeous looking throughout the whole run.

Kissinger said:

Detective Comics 854

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:tear:

It was just so.....gorgeous.

Detective Comics is smurfing awesome right now

Shannow said:

It is just an overmilked IP and thus, not worth any time.

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Shhh, they might buy something original!! :slywink:

It was very good. And I normally don't care about the Bat books.

But with a whole slew of things coming up (Marvel Project, Rebirth, Blackest Night, etc) I'm probably going to stop grabbing the issues and trade it.

Detective Comics is smurfing awesome right now

JCM said:

Shannow said:

It is just an overmilked IP and thus, not worth any time.

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Shhh, they might buy something original!! :slywink:

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SPOILER: if you think something is original you just haven't been exposed to it's "inspiration"! :tongue:

Detective Comics is smurfing awesome right now

@Li3n said:

JCM said:

Shannow said:

It is just an overmilked IP and thus, not worth any time.

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Shhh, they might buy something original!! :slywink:

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SPOILER: if you think something is original you just haven't been exposed to it's "inspiration"! :tongue:

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Sorry, Im to busy watching 10 different Inspector gadget tv shows that are shown the same time and might happen to continue onto another, and also "Detective comics", where yet another writer is hired to milk out the Inspector gadget name, while raving how awesome Frank Miller's take on gadget is, but sadly due to Dr. Claw ripping through the frabric of time that never happened.

Then I'll go watch Heroes, then the Hiro, and Hero Origins plus the "gifted"and "the enw gifted" where Hiro runs from one group to another, after all if its a "hot writer" writing it, its not whoring out is it? But hey, creativity!!

Because there aren't 10 Gundam series that are basically a new take on the same story, but with different names for characters, or a new live action take on Sailor Moon, or plenty of giant robot shows that once you've seen one you've seen them all...


Sorry, but "it's a new IP" is a BS reason to watch something... just as "it's the same IP" is a BS reason not to.


Stories are either good or bad, and someone making them not canon matters as much as bad slash fic... i might as well cry foul about what Hellsing did to Dracula, because it retconned Stoker...

And creativity has little to do with whether or not you're writing an old or a new character.

@Li3n said:

Gundam series! A few rare manga that dont end and still together are less than the number of comics with wolverine in them!!!

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Yeah, again the sad pathetic trying to get the few 1-2% of manga that dont end, in a market where the top 25 manga are NEW IP that have been around for 10 year max, to defend 10 fucking titles of the same 70-year old IP that is in one´s Jammies.

@Li3n said:

BS

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You Batman nerds have to be more specific, which of the monthly BS-
BS
The Uncanny BSmen, The New BSmen, BSforce, BSfactor, BSMen Academy, Messiah BS/BS War, Ultimate BS, or are you talking about the new Arse and the BSmen, and the accompanying Arse and the BSmen comic, or the BSmen origins: Arse.


Man, its pathetic to see nerds get their bat-undies in a bunch when someone points out the obvious, that one doesnt need 20 fucking bat-books/guest appearances a month, but hey, Im not the one being gymped every month and having to preorder at a comic store. :smug:

Detective Comics is smurfing awesome right now

Because God forbid someone enjoy something that's *gasp* less than 100% original. :eyeroll: You know why there are four titles a month starring Batman? Because there are dozens of writers champing at the bit to write new Batman stories because they love the character. Some will be awesome. Some will suck. But as long as the reader actually enjoys it, it's not a waste of money or a "gyp".

Detective Comics is smurfing awesome right now

Dorko said:

original.

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Be more specific, are you talking about Original in the Origivengers, Dark Originvengers, the Origin solo comic, or origin:Origins, or the Original War maxi-series and spin-offs, where the originals must choose whether they want to reveal theyre fake crap or join Captain piracy, or the Original classified, where we discover his sidekick Authentic isnt dead but was working as a hooker and his dead girlfriend Creativity actyally was sleeping with his enemy, Copyright Lawyer?

Again.

You dont need 10 fucking bat-books and spin-offs a month.

Detective Comics is smurfing awesome right now

I started working on a reply. I really did. But then I realized it will just fall against the wall of JCM's "rightness". :eyeroll: He won't get the mind set of an American comic book fan. He takes the maybe three or four characters per company who DO get overexposed and is using the presence of multiple team books with the same THEME to claim that it's the same characters in each one. He doesn't get. He doesn't want to get it.

And I've seen FAR too many "debates" with JCM, with this tactic of taking one word from a post and then building a "God, WHY doesn't anyone understand HOW RIGHT I am?!" rant on it.

EDIT:

You dont need 10 fucking bat-books and spin-offs a month.

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Why not? Batwoman is practically a brand new character that almost no one has done anything with. Dick Grayson and Damien Wayne getting used to being the new Batman and Robin has MORE than enough material for the three books it takes up. Red Robin, AKA Tim Drake, is off over in Europe so trying to cram his story into one of the above would be page consuming and unsatisfying. And Gotham City Sirens is using three popular villainesses in their own stories, not as the bad guys but as the protagonists. Finally, some people don't like the idea of a new Batman. So they can enjoy Batman Confidential and Batman/Superman for not-strictly continuity stories starring Bruce Wayne. Need? Nope. We don't need ANY comic books. They're entertainment. Is there more than enough new stories to fill each and everyone one of these monthly books? Hell yes.

Detective Comics is smurfing awesome right now

Awww, manbawling because somebody is showing what a dumbfuck people are to support 10 monthly comics of the same damn character?

Dorko said:

Rightness.

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Which rightness?

The Earth-52 Rightness, the Age of Wrongness Rightness, Frank Miller´s Rightness, Rightness 2099, Rightness who is really Rightness´son from the future but has been retconned to be just a close, Rightness who was actually Wrongness but revealed himself to be first Rightness, Rightness´ clone, Rightnessboy or Rightness in the 616?

Dorko said:

Why not?

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Are you actually telling me we need ten fucking titles and crossovers for stories that in the 80s, could be contained in one monthly or bi-monthly comic, and that in EVERY DAMN MEDIA can be contained in that same title/show/comic/manga/episode.

Why must american comics, and only american comics, require ten monthly titles-crossovers-spinoffs to tell the story where every other media does fine with just one or two?

Detective Comics is smurfing awesome right now

JCM is hilarious. A bitter, angry hilarious man.

Detective Comics is smurfing awesome right now

JCM said:

Why must american comics, and only american comics, require ten monthly titles-crossovers-spinoffs to tell the story where every other media does fine with just one or two?

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Because they don't.

The story in Batman and Robin has very little to do with the story in Batman and even less to do with the stories in Detective and Sirens and Streets of Gotham and Red Robin. Sure the characters and locations may relate, but the variety lets the reader read what they want to.

Sure, there are crossovers...the arc going on in the Sper-titles (-Man, -Girl, Action, New Krypton, Old Krypton, Girly-Boy, -Puppy, etc) started off as a crossover, but each individual monthly title held its own, its own creative staff, and it's own angle on the story...avoiding a NEED to read them all....

Detective Comics is smurfing awesome right now

Here we go, again!

Detective Comics is smurfing awesome right now

I'm sorry, but I've rarely seen any comic franchise with more than a concurrent books about the same character. Batman has maybe three right now that are actually about Batman, the rest are about other characters. The X-Men have five or six books because at any moment in time the "team" has something like 25-30 members, and everybody has a favorite character that they'd like to see more than once every seven years, each book is usually about a seperate group of characters (and Wolverine).

And really, why should it matter if there are three different books about the same character if they are different stories? Maybe I like seeing superman in a light-hearted adventure, but someone else wants to see him interact with the rest of the DC universe. Why should either of us have to read the same books just for that. These are characters who are seen in many different ways by their readers, so it stands to reason that they'd have many different books to showcase this. Is a little variety such a horrible thing? And why should it matter if someone buys all the different books if they like the character or the story? Why the elitism?

what happened to this thread i just wanted to talk about how awesome the first issue of Greg Rucka's run on Detective Comics was

Detective Comics is smurfing awesome right now

NEEEEERDS

okay, thats all. please, carry on.

what happened to this thread i just wanted to talk about how awesome the first issue of Greg Rucka's run on Detective Comics was

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how dare you try to discuss something. on a discussion forum! really

Detective Comics is smurfing awesome right now

Oh, also Kissinger? If you liked Rucka's stuff here and want to read more about the Crime Bible and all that, check out his mini-series called The Question: The Five Books of Blood. It's pretty good, though the art is nowhere as fantastic as JH Williams.

Detective Comics is smurfing awesome right now

Gurpel said:

how dare you try to discuss something. on a discussion forum! really

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what

no i'm just wondering how this thread got to this point because people seemed to come out of nowhere to attack the very IDEA of a popular mainstream comic book character in multiple books which doesn't really apply because Batwoman isn't in any other books right now and the current incarnation of that character has only appeared in a few issues of 52 before this.

Detective Comics is smurfing awesome right now

NO. You can't discuss this. Because you're wrong. I HAVE SPOKEN. Your wrongness cannot compete with my rightness. QED.

Wikipedia said:

Fade is always right.

In 103% of all interviewees interviewed in the RAS (Really Accurate Study), 100% completely agreed that fade is always right. And handsome and awesome to boot. Also, a bunch of left wing and right wing pundits, 90% of whom are unheard of bloggers also agree that fade is right. All the time.

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[image macro]

Wargle bargle wargle *mouth froth*.

what the fuck is anyone talking about i don't even know

Detective Comics is smurfing awesome right now

Check the X-men thread. It carried into here.

Detective Comics is smurfing awesome right now

Shannow said:

Check the X-men thread. It carried into here.

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Thank you. I had ignored that thread, but now at least see the basis and explanation for JCM's seemingly inane ranting...

And I'm less inclined than before to argue...

Sure....after 75+ years, Superman and Batman's stories have remained relatively unchanged...but that doesn't mean that, regardless of the similarities from arc to arc, "the same old story" can't be enjoyed with it's re-telling/new twists...

Aren't there really only 6 stories for the entire history of man?

May check out later but I can agree with some of JCM's issues with American comics, though this is the wrong thread for it.

Batman Comics especially have a ridiculous history with crossovers. It was very common to have the next part of almost every story arc to be told in yet another Detective Batman: Gotham Legends of the Dark Bat Knights and Friends spin-off. I could have sworn DC said they would end the extra Bat series after RIP but why would they?

Detective Comics is smurfing awesome right now

Agree 100% Fade is right. After all, the rest is so fucking ridiculous, I mean, take a look at the nerd´s post applied to other media-

Dorko said:

We need TEN Harry Potter books at the same time.
Why not? Dobby is practically a brand new character that almost no one has done anything with. Ron Weasley and Bumbledore getting used to the situation have MORE than enough material for the three books it takes up. Snape, AKA Bumbledore´s killer, has so much background that trying to cram his story into one of the above would be page consuming and unsatisfying. And The Hogwart´s sirens is using three popular Slytherin students in their own stories, not as the bad guys but as the protagonists. Finally, some people don't like the idea of an older teen Harry Potter. So they can enjoy Hogwart´s Confidential and Harry/Snape for not-strictly continuity stories starring our boy Wizard.

Need? Nope. We don't need ANY books. They're entertainment. Is there more than enough new stories to fill each and everyone one of these yearly books? Hell yes.

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Of course we need ten fucking Harry Potter books a year. :smug:

Sure....after 75+ years, Superman and Batman's stories have remained relatively unchanged...but that doesn't mean that, regardless of the similarities from arc to arc, "the same old story" can't be enjoyed with it's re-telling/new twists...

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Funnily, until the 80s, 2 comics were more than enough for any superhero and supporting cast, with 1 being normal.

Really, its pathetic to see how advertising "hey, check out Frank Miller´s All-Star Harry Potter!" can make nerds think that its justified to overcharge and overmilk an IP with too many monthly books and crossovers that you MUST buy to understand the story.

Thank god this hasnt seeped over to manga, tv, movies and animation, imagine puuting up with this bullshit in books- BS like "the Davinci crisis"?

Robert Langdon from Reality-5 has to discover a way to stop Robert Langdon Prime from killing Sherlock Holmes, Passepartout´s clone, and Hercule Poirot, who returned to life after Dark Miss Marple ripped across the dimensional pages of detective reality. (All its effects so intelligently spread accross all "Davinci Crisis tie-ins; Detective League, Mike Hammer, Mike Hammer Corps, Langdon and Jesus girl, Langdon Man of symbols, Sam Spade, P.I. comics, the New Hardy Boys and the Hardy Boys:Classified).

I heard it has 5 variant covers, and if you buy them all and put them upside down side-by-side, it´ll show a mysterious figure in the background who seems to be NancyJr Dakkar, the daughter of Nancy Drew and Captain Nemo, who was killed by Langdon and Gandalf.

Dont forget, its being written by that new hot teen writer Stephenie Meyer, with art by Harry Potter´s own Mary GrandPré, who now have signed on to head the Detective League books and the Dr Jekyll vs Marley special.

Detective Comics is smurfing awesome right now

haven't read dc854 because i have no idea where this new batwoman came from(52?). but if someone were to tell me where to go for her background stories i would probably be much more interested.
personally though, i've really been liking dustin nguyen's watercolor batman covers. if he ever did a full issue in that style i'd probably explode...especially if it was one of the dini written stories

Detective Comics is smurfing awesome right now

I had to look that one up. I thought, "What? The 21 Jump Street guy?". He probably gets that a lot.

Who? Johny Depp?

Cat said:

May check out later but I can agree with some of JCM's issues with American comics, though this is the wrong thread for it.

Batman Comics especially have a ridiculous history with crossovers. It was very common to have the next part of almost every story arc to be told in yet another Detective Batman: Gotham Legends of the Dark Bat Knights and Friends spin-off. I could have sworn DC said they would end the extra Bat series after RIP but why would they?

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I cant say much for the past year and "New Batman" storyline, as I gave up on comcis after Civil War, but I must agree on the previous year.

On the opinion that 10 monthly comics are needed, I agree to disagree, I grew up during the best years of american comics, and never needed 10 books to understand what was going on with a character and his supporting cast. If you enjoy it, fine with me.

Detective Comics is smurfing awesome right now

Novel Series =/= Comic book series.

Where would you put Batwoman's solo stories, if I may ask? She has a different focus, supporting cast (who we're only just meeting), and rogue's gallery (a fledgling one, admittedly) than Batman and Robin. While I can see where an outsider to the American comic book scene might not get or see the desire/reason for four titles starring Batman himself per month, I can't see why Batwoman, Red Robin, The Question, Manhunter, and The Gotham City Sirens should be folded all into one book per month by being related in setting to Batman.

Additionally, you are applying a phenomenon that applies to a relative minority of characters published on a monthly basis. Hell, even Spider-Man only appears in two ongoings per month and the Superman Family of titles are related but not intrinsically so (IE, you can enjoy one without reading all of them). American comics are a different animal than those of most other nations, with large interconnected universes. We like it that way. Doesn't make us stupid. Asshole.

JCM said:

On the opinion that 10 monthly comics are needed, I agree to disagree, I grew up during the best years of american comics, and never needed 10 books to understand what was going on with a character and his supporting cast. If you enjoy it, fine with me.

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1) Where the FUCK was this live and let live attitude this morning when you were calling people like me dumbfucks?! 2) You don't HAVE to read ALL the series to keep up with, to use the example that started this, Batman? Batwoman isn't even really a Batman supporting character! I'm not even entirely certain that she's met any member of the Bat-Family but Nightwing. And to keep up with Dick and Damien as the Dynmaic Duo, pick any one of the three core bat titles. Each has it's own, unique unto itself story. That's all you need.

Kissinger said:

what the fuck is anyone talking about i don't even know

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Very badly, I want to contribute to the original discussion that was supposed to go on in here. Unfortunately...I haven't read the book in question. However, I will see if I can read it, now that you've mentioned it.

Detective Comics is smurfing awesome right now

Chronos[Ha-G said:

]

Kissinger said:

what the smurf is anyone talking about i don't even know

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Very badly, I want to contribute to the original discussion that was supposed to go on in here. Unfortunately...I haven't read the book in question. However, I will see if I can read it, now that you've mentioned it.

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It does rock. Kissinger is right on the money.

Plus: The Question is the back-up feature!

Man, I haven't read the new Detective Stuff at all but holy fuck do I love Frank Quitely on Batman and Robin. He could draw Youngblood and I would buy it.

Detective Comics is smurfing awesome right now

Dorko said:

Novel Series =/= Comic book series.

Where would I survive if publishers had to go back to newstands, instead of pretending an investor market still exists in comic stores that cant even get buy sellling just comics.

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Again, every damn fucking industry in the world doesnt need ten titles for one character and his supporting cast.

American comics before the 90s and comic stores and "collectors", didnt need that shit, and variant covers and all.

Just because you bought some shitty propaganda to warrant the existence of something that was never needed, doesnt mean its needed.

Additionally, you are applying a phenomenon that applies to a relative minority of characters published on a monthly basis.

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Which make up for more than 90% of total sales of your two top companies, which through barely-legal monopoly and killing off distributors kind to indepedents with an exclusive contract with Diamond.

Its not a minority, when the only pathetic comics to sell above 100,000 are basically Superman/Batman/Xmen/Wolverine/Spiderman, or something with the aforementioned in them. :smug:

Detective Comics is smurfing awesome right now

Wasn't batman... dead?



Oh, wait he got better...



Moral of the story: Comics are products like any other the current supply of them is simply the response to the market's demands. The pissing contests between fans and detractors alike only fuel the interest in comics as a whole and thus keeping them alive. So no matter how you look at it, shock value stories are good in the bigwig's book regardless of their quality.

Detective Comics is smurfing awesome right now

Actually, Bruce Wayne is still "dead" as far as everyone is concerned. That's long time Green Lantern villain Black Hand in that picture.

Dick Grayson has become the new Batman.

And JCM, if comic book publishers moved exclusively to news stands (which would hurt independents more than the the Big Two and drive sales even further into the realm of X-Men and Batman), I'd buy them there. And I'd obviously cut back on what I buy because there'd be fewer published monthly (I'd likely save no money, since I'd just buy TPBs and back issues...dear lord, Icon and Hardware are coolest things to come from 1993...aside from my sister). Personally, I enjoy my three Batman titles a month. Paul Dini, Grant Morrison, and Judd Winnick all have distinct writing styles with their own pros and cons. I *le gasp* ENJOY these stories. If Winnick starts to suck (which he very well might), I will drop "Batman". Red Robin is already on the bubble because I'm unsure of the new characterization they're doing...and dropping Red Robin will literally have no effect on the stories in ANYTHING else.

And I again point out that the various X-Titles have only two or three (out of literally twenty or more) overlapping characters, each Bat title is self contained, Spider-Man is the titular character of only ONE comic (albeit published thrice a month), and none of the Avengers teams overlap. In other words...while there are six bat books, you only have to read the one you like to enjoy it.

Detective Comics is smurfing awesome right now

Dorko said:

Actually, Bruce Wayne is still "dead" as far as everyone is concerned. That's long time Green Lantern villain Black Hand in that picture.

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Thank goodness it isn't Batman's mind in there, if it were the Black Lanterns would have a shot. You know, how Batman can defeat anything with enough prep time.

Dorko said:

Dick Grayson has become the new Batman. And Damien, Bruce and Talia Al Gul's all knowing punk kid is Robin.

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Which, after reading the first few issues, I wholeheartedly approve. THIS is how you make big changes to the status quo. It's so well written and natural that I wish it could last.

Detective Comics is smurfing awesome right now

Aisaku said:

Dorko said:

* Grayson has become the new Batman. And Damien, Bruce and Talia Al Gul's all knowing punk kid is Robin.

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Which, after reading the first few issues, I wholeheartedly approve. THIS is how you make big changes to the status quo. It's so well written and natural that I wish it could last.

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Oh sweet lord I agree. Wholeheartedly. I don't mind Bruce Wayne returning from the stone age, but give him Detective Comics and have him travel the world with Talia fighting the League of Assassins and the Club of Villains and whatever. Leave Dick Grayson alooone!

Or better, keep Bruce jumping through time Quantum Leap style (but with each life lasting a while) and having adventures that cement the DCU's history and the fact that no matter how bad it gets Bruce never quits... there's at least 10 years worth of content there. Prehistoric Bats -> Victorian Caped Crusader.

Detective Comics is smurfing awesome right now

@Li3n said:

Or better, keep Bruce jumping through time Quantum Leap style (but with each life lasting a while) and having adventures that cement the DCU's history and the fact that no matter how bad it gets Bruce never quits... there's at least 10 years worth of content there. Prehistoric Bats -> Victorian Caped Crusader.

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Oooooo, not a bad idea sir. It would result in more fan boy outrage, but could lead to some good stories. Maybe make Vandal Savage and Ra's Al Ghul his recurring foes throughout time. Maybe a guest app in Booster Gold telling Booster that he wasn't to see this through himself.

Well Morrison said something to that effect when talking about Batman "dying" in Final Crisis... the question is if they actually let him do it...

Detective Comics is smurfing awesome right now

I enjoy the new batman and robin. HATE the art (this has been discussed), love the story. glad Morrison is back to writing a coherent story rather than something that made me feel I was missing entire pages between panels.

Haven't read Detective comics yet. Might try it because of Rucka, but I really hated the Batwoman character in 52. She was way overhyped (did you know she's a lesbian?), a bit of a mary sue (did you know she's a lesbian?) being a character plopped down into the universe who is already as rich if not richer that Bruce Wayne, So hot that Nightwing instantly forgot about his fiance (did you know she's a lesbian?), and is just as skilled as a member of the Bat-family despite the years of training and experience that they have (did you know she's a lesbian?). The worst part is getting called a bigot when you try and point out the characters absurdity.

I'm told she gets better after 52 and actually starts becoming a character, and with the Question backup its worth reading at least the first couple of issues.

Detective Comics is smurfing awesome right now

Covar said:

I enjoy the new batman and robin. HATE the art (this has been discussed), love the story. glad Morrison is back to writing a coherent story rather than something that made me feel I was missing entire pages between panels.

Haven't read Detective comics yet. Might try it because of Rucka, but I really hated the Batwoman character in 52. She was way overhyped (did you know she's a lesbian?), a bit of a mary sue (did you know she's a lesbian?) being a character plopped down into the universe who is already as rich if not richer that Bruce Wayne, So hot that Nightwing instantly forgot about his fiance (did you know she's a lesbian?), and is just as skilled as a member of the Bat-family despite the years of training and experience that they have (did you know she's a lesbian?). The worst part is getting called a bigot when you try and point out the characters absurdity.

I'm told she gets better after 52 and actually starts becoming a character, and with the Question backup its worth reading at least the first couple of issues.

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I get the same vibe about Rene Montoya's Question (did you hear she's a lesbian?) I was doing a little research on Vic's Question and heard he died of cancer. At least in the 80's he was killed by a pellet gun, but he got better.

Then I heard Detective Montoya got the job, I though great! to have a Latina as a tough as nails crime fighter. I really liked the character in Batman the Animated Series. Then they write her to be a Lesbian. That just seems to be the go to position for many of the new female characters over the past few years...

Detective Comics is smurfing awesome right now

Covar said:

I enjoy the new batman and robin. HATE the art (this has been discussed), love the story. glad Morrison is back to writing a coherent story rather than something that made me feel I was missing entire pages between panels.

Haven't read Detective comics yet. Might try it because of Rucka, but I really hated the Batwoman character in 52. She was way overhyped (did you know she's a lesbian?), a bit of a mary sue (did you know she's a lesbian?) being a character plopped down into the universe who is already as rich if not richer that Bruce Wayne, So hot that Nightwing instantly forgot about his fiance (did you know she's a lesbian?), and is just as skilled as a member of the Bat-family despite the years of training and experience that they have (did you know she's a lesbian?). The worst part is getting called a bigot when you try and point out the characters absurdity.

I'm told she gets better after 52 and actually starts becoming a character, and with the Question backup its worth reading at least the first couple of issues.

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Man, I can't believe anyone could diss Quitely's art. The man is a God damn master.

Detective Comics is smurfing awesome right now

sixpackshaker said:

Covar said:

I enjoy the new batman and robin. HATE the art (this has been discussed), love the story. glad Morrison is back to writing a coherent story rather than something that made me feel I was missing entire pages between panels.

Haven't read Detective comics yet. Might try it because of Rucka, but I really hated the Batwoman character in 52. She was way overhyped (did you know she's a lesbian?), a bit of a mary sue (did you know she's a lesbian?) being a character plopped down into the universe who is already as rich if not richer that Bruce Wayne, So hot that Nightwing instantly forgot about his fiance (did you know she's a lesbian?), and is just as skilled as a member of the Bat-family despite the years of training and experience that they have (did you know she's a lesbian?). The worst part is getting called a bigot when you try and point out the characters absurdity.

I'm told she gets better after 52 and actually starts becoming a character, and with the Question backup its worth reading at least the first couple of issues.

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I get the same vibe about Rene Montoya's Question (did you hear she's a lesbian?) I was doing a little research on Vic's Question and heard he died of cancer. At least in the 80's he was killed by a pellet gun, but he got better.

Then I heard Detective Montoya got the job, I though great! to have a Latina as a tough as nails crime fighter. I really liked the character in Batman the Animated Series. Then they write her to be a Lesbian. That just seems to be the go to position for many of the new female characters over the past few years...

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Montoya gets more of a pass for me because she actually has more of a history as a character.

Also, Streets of Gotham needs more Bullock.

Detective Comics is smurfing awesome right now

EVERY Gotham book needs more Bullock.

You know what would be awesome? A regular Bullock series, done by Darwyn Cooke. Imagine him doing Bullock in his detective kind of style of art like he did with Slam Bradley.

...I just want Darwyn Cooke to do more.

Detective Comics is smurfing awesome right now

ThatNickGuy said:

EVERY Gotham book needs more Bullock.

You know what would be awesome? A regular Bullock series, done by Darwyn Cooke. Imagine him doing Bullock in his detective kind of style of art like he did with Slam Bradley.

...I just want Darwyn Cooke to do more.

Click to expand...

I'd like to see a Lt. Gordon book done with the BA version of Gordon from Batman Year One.

Detective Comics is smurfing awesome right now

Frankie said:

Man, I can't believe anyone could diss Quitely's art. The man is a God damn master.

Click to expand...

This.

Detective Comics is smurfing awesome right now

JCM said:

Frankie said:

Man, I can't believe anyone could diss Quitely's art. The man is a God damn master.

Click to expand...

This.

Click to expand...

Agreed.

Detective Comics is smurfing awesome right now

Shannow said:

JCM said:

Frankie said:

Man, I can't believe anyone could diss Quitely's art. The man is a God damn master.

Click to expand...

This.

Click to expand...

Agreed.

Click to expand...

I dunno, when I was younger I hated Quitly's artwork. The.....rough lines turned me off. Even now, it takes two pages or so for me to get over that and re-find the appreciation.

Detective Comics is smurfing awesome right now

ThatNickGuy said:

EVERY Gotham book needs more Bullock.

You know what would be awesome? A regular Bullock series, done by Darwyn Cooke. Imagine him doing Bullock in his detective kind of style of art like he did with Slam Bradley.

...I just want Darwyn Cooke to do more.

Click to expand...

Have you heard about the Parker graphic novels he's doing? That stuff looks absolutely amazing. [strike:1xg9w0gb]I'm not sure when the first one comes out.[/strike:1xg9w0gb] Wait, I think it might be out now!

Detective Comics is smurfing awesome right now

Because I don't feel like typing out my explanation again.

Me in the Hey nerd said:

To clarify my stance on Quitely (after all i should provide more than just "its ugly"). I find his art to look "muddy" if that makes any sense. I think this stems from his inability to draw a steady line. I find the tiny swiggly lines kills any sense of texture in his art. On top of this I've yet to see him draw any person that would be a 5 or higher If I ran into them on the street. He made Emma Frost and Jean Grey look like ugly old hags when he was on New X-men. Which is actually a good lead in to my biggest issue with Quitely; his speed. I'm not saying he should be as fast an artist as Jack Kirby was, or even as fast as Mark Bagley (both of whom IMO put out better quality art), but the man can't even come close to a monthly schedule and yet continuously gets himself put on "monthly" titles.

Click to expand...

Just want to add. if the man wasn't slow as molasses I think he would make a great layouts guy.

See, now I'm the opposite with Bagely. I fucking hate Bagely's art. I couldn't stand Ultimate Spider-Man mostly because of him.

Detective Comics is smurfing awesome right now

Quitely is hit or miss. Sometimes his characters are nicely realistic with fat rolls in realistic places. Sometimes Robin looks like a monkey. With Robin there, he failed that lesson about age and number of lines on the face. His Lois Lane has eyes on her forehead. Most of his faces have that "squished down" quality about them. When he's good he's good. But his lack of anatomy and over hatching reminds me incredibly strongly of one Rob Liefield.

Detective Comics is smurfing awesome right now

JCM said:

Again, every damn fucking industry in the world doesnt need ten titles for one character and his supporting cast.

Click to expand...

Maaan when you exagerate this much you start to make no sense, you know?

First of all: what character has ten titles going on? No, wait. 5 titles? none? Maybe a couple (Superman?)?
So, the usual now is 2-3 instead of 1-2. Is that such a big deal??

Also, in the specific case of Batman your rant makes even less sense: The only proper batman titles are batman and batman and robin, which is not exaggerated at all. Red Robin is a spin off, and yes it has something to do with Batman, but well... Okay, I'll let this one go, maybe it is indeed unnecessary (but the story is pretty different to what's going on in the other titles, so I don't see why it should be so bad... it's all right if it ends up being a short series). And in the case of detective comics... Man! It doesn't have anything to do with the bat-family other to the name!! The character and story come from 52 and not any bat title.


Sooo... just try not to treat people like idiots, because it doesn't get your point across and sometimes you end up ridiculing yourself more than them.

Other than that, yes, we'll just agree to disagree.

Detective Comics is smurfing awesome right now

YOU FOOL!!!! WE HAD JUST LULLED THE BEAST DOWN TO SLEEP!!!!! QUICK SOMEONE TRY AND START A DISCUSSION AND HOPEFULLY WE CAN GET IT ROLLING BEFORE ITS TO LATE!!!!!

So Legion of Super-heroes. I hope XS survives legion of three worlds (which has been all kinds of awesome). Archie Legion was the stuff that got me into LOSH (Legion Lost needs to be traded damn it) and I would hate to see that entire continuity to just disappear again.

Detective Comics is smurfing awesome right now

Covar said:

legion of three worlds (which has been all kinds of awesome).

Click to expand...

It's been awesome but Jesus Christ, it's taken FOREVER for it to come out.

Detective Comics is smurfing awesome right now

fade said:

Quitely is hit or miss. Sometimes his characters are nicely realistic with fat rolls in realistic places. Sometimes Robin looks like a monkey. With Robin there, he failed that lesson about age and number of lines on the face. His Lois Lane has eyes on her forehead. Most of his faces have that \"squished down\" quality about them. When he's good he's good. But his lack of anatomy and over hatching reminds me incredibly strongly of one Rob Liefield.

Click to expand...

When I saw that cover I immediately thought that robin looked like alfred e neuman. Fortunately the rest of the comic doesn't have this problem. Why did DC let this slip? I have no idea.

Detective Comics is smurfing awesome right now

are you kidding? The very first picture you see of Robin inside the book makes him look like a 70 year old midget. DC lets that stuff slip because its Quitely.

Also I'm pissed with the lateness of Legion of 3 Worlds. I know Perez is capable of a monthly book. I'm also saddened by the complete lack of attention and love that the book had/has been given by Didio and the marketing people at DC.

Detective Comics is smurfing awesome right now

Rechecked... I guess he does look out of proportion, I thought that was just his style... but then in the next page he looks normal almost like a standard robin way back. There's something more disturbing about that picture though, neither wear seatbelts or any other protection gear... are they magnetically fixed to the seats or something?

Detective Comics is smurfing awesome right now

tegid said:

JCM said:

Again, every damn fucking industry in the world doesnt need ten titles for one character and his supporting cast.

Click to expand...

Maaan when we fanboy idiots defend DC whoring 10 bat titles and Marvel shoving wolverine in another 10 this much you start to make no sense, you know?

Click to expand...

:bush:

tegid said:

First of all: what character has ten titles going on? No, wait. 5 titles? none? Maybe a couple (Superman?)?
So, the usual now is 2-3 instead of 1-2. Is that such a big deal??

Click to expand...

How many fucking bat appearances, and bat-books do you have a month? Talk about fanservice to fanboys.

But hey, one must read Hogwarts adventures, Magic comics, Potter girl, the Slytheen syrens, The Wand (formerly known as potter boy), The Wand´s group the teenage warlocks and also who can forget Potterman/Superman and the Wizard league.

Also, in the specific case of Potter your rant makes even less sense: The only proper Potter titles are Harry Potter and Batman Potter and Snape, which is not exaggerated at all. Old Bumbledore is a spin off, and yes it has something to do with Potter, but well... Okay, I'll let this one go, maybe it is indeed unnecessary (but the story is pretty different to what's going on in the other titles, so I don't see why it should be so bad... it's all right if it ends up being a short series). And in the case of Magic comics... Man! It doesn't have anything to do with the Potter-family other to the name!! The character and story come from the issues of Harry potter and not any bat title.

Click to expand...

See how laughable it is when I apply the comicbook guy´s arguement to any established brand?

Not to mention you leave out books that spun off Batman, like books with previous Robins, Batgirl, villains now becoming "sirens", spin-offs, crossovers and team books with the character, heck, to have every Batman appearance and supporting character, I can bet you´d need at least 10-20 comics a month.

But hey, of course Snape´s old ex-girlfirend who now is Magic girl and is being done by that "hot writer/artist" team!!

Agree to disagree, and laugh at how laughable it is for a company to spend the past ten years depending 90% on grown men going to a comic store (which was created because of the investor market) buying spinoffs.

Be back to apply lame defenses to other media "Hey, we need Dragonball adventures, Gokuboy, Goku Girls, the Sayan Syrens, et al...." to show the ridiculousness of american comics.

My advice, go buy a graphic novel. Its where good stuff is, minus the fluff for fanboys.

Detective Comics is smurfing awesome right now

Is it so much to wish for a DC universe that only has batman and batman villians?

I still want the Davinci Crisis

"Davinci crisis"?

Robert Langdon from Reality-5 has to discover a way to stop Robert Langdon Prime from killing Sherlock Holmes, Passepartout´s clone, and Hercule Poirot, who returned to life after Dark Miss Marple ripped across the dimensional pages of detective reality. (All its effects so intelligently spread accross all "Davinci Crisis tie-ins; Detective League, Mike Hammer, Mike Hammer Corps, Langdon and Jesus girl, Langdon Man of symbols, Sam Spade, P.I. comics, the New Hardy Boys and the Hardy Boys:Classified).

I heard it has 5 variant covers, and if you buy them all and put them upside down side-by-side, it´ll show a mysterious figure in the background who seems to be NancyJr Dakkar, the daughter of Nancy Drew and Captain Nemo, who was killed by Langdon and Gandalf.

Dont forget, its being written by that new hot teen writer Stephenie Meyer, with art by Harry Potter´s own Mary GrandPré, who now have signed on to head the Detective League books and the Dr Jekyll vs Marley special.

Click to expand...

-- Sat Jul 18, 2009 6:36 am --

Frankie said:

See, now I'm the opposite with Bagely. I fucking hate Bagely's art. I couldn't stand Ultimate Spider-Man mostly because of him.

Click to expand...

He´s good at posing Spiderman and and twsiting bodies, but somehow his faces seem they are drawn by an intern.

Detective Comics is smurfing awesome right now

I have figured out why JCM is right and we're all wrong: we like something he doesn't! It doesn't matter what we say, what flaws we point out in his arguments, or even that certain aspects of this are a matter of opinion...he doesn't like it, we do, ergo we're wrong.

And he's right. We don't need separate books for Batwoman, Red Robin, and Batman. It doesn't matter that their stories barely intersect at all...they all share a setting! And why the fuck couldn't that hack J.K. Rowling fit the "Beedle The Bard" story into the normal Harry Potter books? Or the Quidditch Handbook and Creature Encyclopedia spin-offs? And why couldn't that Tolkien just finish the Ring's story in "The Hobbit"? And really, shouldn't everything from "Superman The Animated Series" through "Justice League Unlimited" have been told as a part of "Batman: The Animated Series"? Why did we seven different shows to tell the stories of one group of characters? It doesn't matter that these stories have little to do with each other. They all need to vie for time in one series. Because that's all a fictional universe deserves. One. Series. :eyeroll:

And just to make things easy for Mr. M:

"Ignorant fan boy whines because I'm right and he's not"

Detective Comics is smurfing awesome right now

Can we ban JCM from any comics discussion. He takes any simple conversation we have about comics and twists it into his own personal vendetta against american comics.

Detective Comics is smurfing awesome right now

Bowielee said:

Can we ban JCM from any comics discussion. He takes any simple conversation we have about comics and twists it into his own personal vendetta against american comics.

Click to expand...

JCM?

Detective Comics is smurfing awesome right now

Shegokigo said:

JCM?

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Which one?

V league with Earth 5-V who has been retconned to be F, the V and SuperA, R (where the ex-Vboy now has to handle being the new V), Alphabet comics starring Y, Vgirl, the London syrens, or the All Star V?

Bowielee said:

Bohooo JCM comics discussion is making fun of us.

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Guess youre new here, Im as active as anyone in comics, heck I was reading them while you were still pooping in your diapers, but the truth is that the direct market is 90%old IPs and the same heroes are the only way they can survive.

Keyword, direct market, that one for investors, now man-babies, not the graphic novel market.
Go buy a good graphic novel.

I said, this is my opinion on the direct market and its man-babies and old IPs, I agree to disagree, you get your Batman jammies in a twist and insist on trying to prove the BS that DC and Marvel arent whoring, well, be prepared to prove it, heck sales figures and comparisons to other industries have all been posted.

Not that I expect anyone to be able to say anything but the equivalent of "Son Gohan, Bulma and the alternate earth son Goku MUST have their own stories, theres so many to be told" or do like the other nerd and cry "JCM doesnt like Dragonball!"

some idiot who cant read sales figures and see that only american comics survive mainly on old IP said:

And he's right. We don't need separate books for Batwoman, Red Robin, and Batman. It doesn't matter that their stories barely intersect at all...they all share a setting! And why the fuck couldn't that hack J.K. Rowling fit the \"Beedle The Bard\" story into the normal Harry Potter books?

Yes, I was too busy smoking old Liefeld comics to notice that 90% of books sold are new IP, while the opposite is hapening in comics.

Click to expand...

You forgot All Star Harry Potter, shadow of the wand, Wizard stories, Pottergirl, Hogwarts syrens and that crossover with Twilight.

Sorry kid, If you had been at school instead of the comic shop, you´d see that other media do the same, but what american comics are special at, is that 90% of the market and sales is the same old shit.

Grow up manbaby, wanna compare 7 harry potter books, two small books and one guide to-

Batman -back to monthly
Detective -back to monthly
Batman and Robin - New monthly
Red Robin - New Monthly
Batman Streets of Gotham -New Monthly
Gotham City Sirens (featuring Catwoman, Poison Ivy and Harley Quinn -New Monthly
Batman Confidential - Ongoing
Batgirl - New Monthly
Azrael - New Monthly
Outsiders with Alfred
Superman/Batman

Plus the several appearances he and his supporting cast in several comics?
Laughable comparison. Comics were in every drugstore, newstand and convenience store. Now most only make it to the comic store, which Chuck Rozanski has published the following estimates(http://www.milehighcomics.com/tales/cbg36.html)

Number of comics shops worldwide, 1992: 11,000
Number of comics shops out of business, 1993-99: 4,000
Now? I can easily bet we´re down by another thousand. But hey, enjoy yet another "bat title" from that "hot writer", its the nerds that are making DC buy it all

interview with Denny ONeil said:

http://www.comicsbulletin.com/features/96718680087355.htm
LDI: The number of Bat-books available to readers has skyrocketed in the past decade. At present, I believe we stand at twelve monthlies (including the two animated-style titles), with a Harley Quinn title on the horizon. With prices substantially increasing in the past five years alone, I know of several readers who've had to drop certain titles, merely because they can't afford to keep up with them anymore. Is the market now oversaturated with Bat-related tales? Can too many titles be a bad thing for both the consumer and DC?

DO’N: When people stop buying the Battitles, we'll know there are too many. Sure, I worry about saturating the market, but there are no signs that we have, yet. Two words: X-Men

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-:smug:

Detective Comics is smurfing awesome right now

Shannow said:

JCM is hilarious.

Click to expand...

yeah, the first time it was funny.

Lets just hope the conversation gets back to Quitely´s art, instead of the comic book nerds screaming in the face of a shrinking industry that one MUST have a Bat spinoff book, and round and round we´ll go as I invent spinoffs for every other media and comic industry that *GASP!* gets tens of millions of sales because they can do something other than yet another batbook.

Detective Comics is smurfing awesome right now

You ever stop to think that maybe, just maybe, there a shit ton of cultural factors causing the shrinking of the comic book industry? I can think of three major ones:

1) Kids today, generally, don't like to read. They pretty much learn to read...then only do it when forced.

2) The vast majority of comic books today (and for the past 20-30 years) are geared at adult audiences. Which leads us to...

3) Comic books are considered by a VAST majority of adults to be "kid stuff" or stuff for nerds only. The ticket sales of films like Iron Man and The Dark Knight show that these "old IPs" that "only manbabys care about" can still draw millions of people to them...just not the comic book.

Your point is also kind of strange to me...you say that the only things keeping the American book industry alive are the "same old IPs". And you say that they need to stop publishing them so that originality can flourish. But...if you stop publishing the only thing keeping it alive, wouldn't that, y'know, kinda kill it? Stuff like "V For Vendetta", "Watchmen", "Top 10", "Invincible", "The Walking Dead", "Hellboy", and all the other amazing graphic novels and ongoing series' that do come up with new characters and are "original" are great but they can not even approach the numbers and popularity among the public at large of the "same old IPs".

Also, and this going to be dismissed as anecdotal or called a lie, I happen to have been friends with a guy named Val Staples. He owns the website He-Man.org, is a comic book colorist, and for a short time he was part owner of a comic book company called "MV Creations". They published several series, including a tie into the new Masters Of The Universe cartoon. When he was asked why the didn't try selling the comic at newsstands, drug stores, grocery stores, and the like (which would certainly seem like where their target audience would find it) he replied that comic book companies were ceasing that practice because of the comic sent to those stores were eventually returned unsold.

Americans are just moving away from comic books. It's a shame. But it's not because there are too many Batman comics published per month.

Detective Comics is smurfing awesome right now

Dorko said:

You ever stop to think that maybe, just maybe, there a shit ton of cultural factors causing the shrinking of the comic book industry? I can think of three major ones:

1) Kids today, generally, don't like to read. They pretty much learn to read...then only do it when forced.

2) The vast majority of comic books today (and for the past 20-30 years) are geared at adult audiences. Which leads us to...

3) Comic books are considered by a VAST majority of adults to be "kid stuff" or stuff for nerds only. The ticket sales of films like Iron Man and The Dark Knight show that these "old IPs" that "only manbabys care about" can still draw millions of people to them...just not the comic book.

Click to expand...

1)BS. Harry Potter and Twilight sales show that teenagers may read, and if you havent seen sales figures posted, Book, Manga, French BD and Manhua sales are doing just fine. Even american graphic novels sales are increasing. Its just the US direct comic (aka mostly superhero from big two) that is shrinking.

2)Which sell well NOT in the comic store, but as graphic novels in bookstores, where Marvel and DC cant choke them out.

3)Comic book store comics and superhero comics are considered so, graphic novels are getting more and more respect. Oh, and we didnt have 5 Batman movies a year, heck, I loved Batman when it was just 2 monthlies in the newstand.

Dorko said:

But it's not because there are too many Batman comics published per month.

Click to expand...

Not Batman´s , but Dc and Marvel.

You youngsters forget easily (or werent alive) when Marvel and DC pulled out from the newstands, which killed comic orders, then the two getting behind Diamond exclusively killed other distributors, then with the investor crash, Marvel and DC´s sales plummeted and most comic stores went out of business. Thankfully, the graphic novels managed to get in bookstores due to the whole investor market bringing comics into the highlights, and are here to stay.

The graphic novel market wasnt even 1% during the 90s, now its almost half of overall american comic sales. American comics arent dying. Theyre merely moving away from superman and the comic store, to the bookstore along with every book. Feel free to read the sales figures (specially the direct market vs graphic novels) in the previous pages and in the Xmen pages.

Oh, and Quitely rocks.

Detective Comics is smurfing awesome right now

JCM said:

Lets just hope the conversation gets back to Quitely´s art, instead of the comic book nerds screaming in the face of a shrinking industry that one MUST have a Bat spinoff book, and round and round we´ll go as I invent spinoffs for every other media and comic industry that *GASP!* gets tens of millions of sales because they can do something other than yet another batbook.

Click to expand...

PST, you're the one who derailed the thread, assmaster.

Someone should write a novel where Robert Heinlein's characters all cross-over with each other, and then visit the land of Oz... Oh wait, Heinlein already did.

Or maybe kill off a famous literary character, and then bring him back after the fans demand that more novels be written... Oh, wait, that happened to Sherlock Holmes.

We'll also not mention the numerous cross-overs between the Hardy Boys and Tom Swift, or the Hardy Boys and Nancy Drew.

Issac Asimov had his Robot novels cross-over with his Foundation novels, if I'm not mistaken.

Some of these comic cliches you think literature is immune to are more common than you seem to think.

Detective Comics is smurfing awesome right now

JCM said:

Oh, and Quitely rocks.

Click to expand...

High five!

The comic that this thread was originally about?

Yeah, it's still fucking awesome.

Detective Comics is smurfing awesome right now

figmentPez said:

Someone should write a novel where Robert Heinlein's characters all cross-over with each other, and then visit the land of Oz... Oh wait, Heinlein already did.

Or maybe kill off a famous literary character, and then bring him back after the fans demand that more novels be written... Oh, wait, that happened to Sherlock Holmes.

We'll also not mention the numerous cross-overs between the Hardy Boys and Tom Swift, or the Hardy Boys and Nancy Drew.

Issac Asimov had his Robot novels cross-over with his Foundation novels, if I'm not mistaken.

Some of these comic cliches you think literature is immune to are more common than you seem to think.

Click to expand...

Or the flowchart needed to understand the Discworld books. Seriously, someone posted an actual flowchart once and just looking at it scared me enough to never want to check them out.

Detective Comics is smurfing awesome right now

ThatNickGuy said:

figmentPez said:

Someone should write a novel where Robert Heinlein's characters all cross-over with each other, and then visit the land of Oz... Oh wait, Heinlein already did.

Or maybe kill off a famous literary character, and then bring him back after the fans demand that more novels be written... Oh, wait, that happened to Sherlock Holmes.

We'll also not mention the numerous cross-overs between the Hardy Boys and Tom Swift, or the Hardy Boys and Nancy Drew.

Issac Asimov had his Robot novels cross-over with his Foundation novels, if I'm not mistaken.

Some of these comic cliches you think literature is immune to are more common than you seem to think.

Click to expand...

Or the flowchart needed to understand the Discworld books. Seriously, someone posted an actual flowchart once and just looking at it scared me enough to never want to check them out.

Click to expand...

I hate people with flowcharts... they keep ruining everybody's fun with data!

Detective Comics is smurfing awesome right now

I hate flowcharts.

Didnt we have that Xmen relationship flowchart as well?

Detective Comics is smurfing awesome right now

ThatNickGuy said:

figmentPez said:

Someone should write a novel where Robert Heinlein's characters all cross-over with each other, and then visit the land of Oz... Oh wait, Heinlein already did.

Or maybe kill off a famous literary character, and then bring him back after the fans demand that more novels be written... Oh, wait, that happened to Sherlock Holmes.

We'll also not mention the numerous cross-overs between the Hardy Boys and Tom Swift, or the Hardy Boys and Nancy Drew.

Issac Asimov had his Robot novels cross-over with his Foundation novels, if I'm not mistaken.

Some of these comic cliches you think literature is immune to are more common than you seem to think.

Click to expand...

Or the flowchart needed to understand the Discworld books. Seriously, someone posted an actual flowchart once and just looking at it scared me enough to never want to check them out.

Click to expand...

Except as was said like fifty times in the thread, you don't need the flowchart and really can read them in any order. The books are still very enjoyable on their own.

Detective Comics is smurfing awesome right now

CynicismKills said:

ThatNickGuy said:

figmentPez said:

Someone should write a novel where Robert Heinlein's characters all cross-over with each other, and then visit the land of Oz... Oh wait, Heinlein already did.

Or maybe kill off a famous literary character, and then bring him back after the fans demand that more novels be written... Oh, wait, that happened to Sherlock Holmes.

We'll also not mention the numerous cross-overs between the Hardy Boys and Tom Swift, or the Hardy Boys and Nancy Drew.

Issac Asimov had his Robot novels cross-over with his Foundation novels, if I'm not mistaken.

Some of these comic cliches you think literature is immune to are more common than you seem to think.

Click to expand...

Or the flowchart needed to understand the Discworld books. Seriously, someone posted an actual flowchart once and just looking at it scared me enough to never want to check them out.

Click to expand...

Except as was said like fifty times in the thread, you don't need the flowchart and really can read them in any order. The books are still very enjoyable on their own.

Click to expand...

Yeah, I forgot that in the 2000s even Marvel and DC couldnt keep track of continuity, and the use of referance to last encounters and that little caption below showing the issue of that encounter was abolished.

After all, with 9 spin-offs, one must be an idiot if he expects any continuity.

Detective Comics is smurfing awesome right now

JCM said:

CynicismKills said:

ThatNickGuy said:

figmentPez said:

Someone should write a novel where Robert Heinlein's characters all cross-over with each other, and then visit the land of Oz... Oh wait, Heinlein already did.

Or maybe kill off a famous literary character, and then bring him back after the fans demand that more novels be written... Oh, wait, that happened to Sherlock Holmes.

We'll also not mention the numerous cross-overs between the Hardy Boys and Tom Swift, or the Hardy Boys and Nancy Drew.

Issac Asimov had his Robot novels cross-over with his Foundation novels, if I'm not mistaken.

Some of these comic cliches you think literature is immune to are more common than you seem to think.

Click to expand...

Or the flowchart needed to understand the Discworld books. Seriously, someone posted an actual flowchart once and just looking at it scared me enough to never want to check them out.

Click to expand...

Except as was said like fifty times in the thread, you don't need the flowchart and really can read them in any order. The books are still very enjoyable on their own.

Click to expand...

Yeah, I forgot that in the 2000s even Marvel and DC couldnt keep track of continuity, and the use of referance to last encounters and that little caption below showing the issue of that encounter was abolished.

After all, with 9 spin-offs, one must be an idiot if he expects any continuity.

Click to expand...

WTF? What has Marvel to do with the fucking DISCWORLD which isn't at all complicated to follow?! Especially since the books are mostly independent and can be enjoyed on their own...

Wait, I'll save you the work:

NERDRAAAAAAAAAAAAGE

(This way you don't need to change my post in quotes, just quote the part you are interested in!)


Also, yeah, flowcharts should be abolished. Most times they actually make things more complicated rather than simplifying them.

Detective Comics is smurfing awesome right now

tegid said:

WTF? What has Marvel to do with the smurfing DISCWORLD which isn't at all complicated to follow?! Especially since the books are mostly independent and can be enjoyed on their own...

Wait, I'll save you the work:

NERDRAAAAAAAAAAAAGE

(This way you don't need to change my post in quotes, just quote the part you are interested in!)


Also, yeah, flowcharts should be abolished. Most times they actually make things more complicated rather than simplifying them.

Click to expand...

Resistance is futile. All threads shall be assimilated to feed JCM's dislike of american comic books.

Detective Comics is smurfing awesome right now

Bowielee said:

Resistance is futile. All threads shall be assimilated to feed JCM's dislike of american comic book shops and kids who didnt grow up.

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Only when the comic fans cant see reality, that their purchasing the same tired IP is basically what turned the monthly comic into THE ONLY media industry that depends 90% on old IP.

I'd post the lists again, as manbabies think that "hating Marvel/DC"=hating all anerican comics, but then since the comic book store is dying out, one day they'll have to go to a bookstore and buy a graphic novel, and join in where american comics shine and dont depend on 12 Batbooks.

tegid said:

NERDRAAAAAAAAAAAAGE

Click to expand...

Which one?
NerdrageMan,
Nerdrage comics,
NerdrageMan and Manboobin,
Red Manboobin,
NerdrageMan Streets of Nerdcity,
Nerd City Sirens,
NerdrageMan Confidential,
NerdrageGirl,
Nerdrazrael,
Outsiders with Nerdralfred,
Supernerd/NerdrageMan,
or the Mantitus League, which Nerdrageus is a member?

Detective Comics is smurfing awesome right now

JCM said:

Bowielee said:

graphic novel

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Click to expand...

Man, one thing I have to give Alan Moore, he hits the usage of this word square on the head.