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Engineering...amazing...
#1
Chazwozel
Chazwozel
http://www.cnn.com/2009/TECH/space/11/05/space.elevator/
I still have no clue how this could be pulled off but can you imagine the possibilities? In a 1,000 years or so the entire surface of the Earth could potentially be like an extended crust of buildings, kind of like Coruscant, but even on a more massive scale.
I still have no clue how this could be pulled off but can you imagine the possibilities? In a 1,000 years or so the entire surface of the Earth could potentially be like an extended crust of buildings, kind of like Coruscant, but even on a more massive scale.
#2
Shegokigo
Shegokigo
Till Bin Laden has a plane smash into it....
#3
fade
fade
Could you imagine riding that thing?
#4
@Li3n
@Li3n
Yes, i too hate grass and all that "natural" stuff... soulless city-planet it is...
@Shego
Pfft... planes... try colony drop... Sieg Zeon!
@Shego
Pfft... planes... try colony drop... Sieg Zeon!
#5
Shegokigo
Shegokigo
Seriously, the first thought I had was "What if it broke off/detached, imagine the carnage from all that falling debris....." after that I had the Bin Laden thought.
#6
@Li3n
@Li3n
gundam daburo already did it... copied it off the simpsons of course...Seriously, the first thought I had was "What if it broke off/detached, imagine the carnage from all that falling debris....." after that I had the Bin Laden thought.
#7
Chazwozel
---------- Post added at 01:06 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:06 PM ----------
I think you need to take a nap.
Chazwozel
They would have to gradually increase the speed keeping it under like 1.6 g's, and then slow it down as it reached the top. I wonder how long it would take to reach the top of a 22km tower like that? Physics nerds hop to it!Could you imagine riding that thing?
---------- Post added at 01:06 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:06 PM ----------
gundam daburo already did it... copied it off the simpsons of course...[/QUOTE]Seriously, the first thought I had was "What if it broke off/detached, imagine the carnage from all that falling debris....." after that I had the Bin Laden thought.
I think you need to take a nap.
#8
sixpackshaker
sixpackshaker
As the article mentions check out "The Fountains of Paradise." I really enjoyed that book.
#9
Chibibar
Chibibar
That is pretty awesome. I am not sure we'll see it in our lifetime. It would take some serious engineering feat to actually go from here to actual space (i.e. space station to load/unload cargo)
#10
@Li3n
But then tomorrow i'll be over 50% conscious at work... and that always sucks...
@Li3n
I think you need to take a nap.[/QUOTE]
gundam daburo already did it... copied it off the simpsons of course...Seriously, the first thought I had was "What if it broke off/detached, imagine the carnage from all that falling debris....." after that I had the Bin Laden thought.
But then tomorrow i'll be over 50% conscious at work... and that always sucks...
#11
Shannow
Shannow
Agreed 100%But then tomorrow i'll be over 50% conscious at work... and that always sucks...
#12
Iaculus
Iaculus
Yeah, Gundam 00 provides a clear, concise explanation of what will happen when this is brought in. It seems that every male under thirty years of age will become stunningly handsome, the entire global military will get curbstomped by seven smallish walking tanks, the elevators' inventor will pull a borderline-genocidal Hari Seldon without anyone who matters calling him out on his shit, and we'll all be taken over by a shadowy cabal of androgynes with really, really bad dress sense.
Personally, I can't wait.
Personally, I can't wait.
#13
@Li3n
@Li3n
To be fair later WW2 tanks would just shrug off fire from tanks circa 1939...
#14
figmentPez
I'm pretty sure some of the SciFi novels that have space elevators have dealt with the trip length. In fact, I'm pretty sure that one had a hotel at the midway point in order to allow people a break from the days of travelling.
Which brings us to an engineering feat that article didn't mention, powering the elevator. I don't remember why running electrical cables is impractical (maybe the weight) but there are currently engineering challenges to create robots that climb cables while weighing under a certain amount and climbing at a certain speed. One plan is microwave/laser power, removing the need for fuel onboard.
And I didn't like the way the article phrased our lack of materials to build the elevator. Some scientists say that we already do have them, namely carbon nanotubes, but we can't make them in sufficient quantities and length. Other scientists say that it's physically impossible to make carbon nanotubes of that length with enough purity.
Other novels that feature space elevators: Kim Stanley Robinson's Mars Trilogy (mostly a "meh" work, but some fantastic concepts for applied tech), and David Brin's "Sundiver" (awesome novel, but only mentions the space elevators in passing). I'm sure there are many others, but those are the first that come to my mind.
figmentPez
Yeah, if you thought a flight across the Pacific was long...Could you imagine riding that thing?
I'm pretty sure some of the SciFi novels that have space elevators have dealt with the trip length. In fact, I'm pretty sure that one had a hotel at the midway point in order to allow people a break from the days of travelling.
Which brings us to an engineering feat that article didn't mention, powering the elevator. I don't remember why running electrical cables is impractical (maybe the weight) but there are currently engineering challenges to create robots that climb cables while weighing under a certain amount and climbing at a certain speed. One plan is microwave/laser power, removing the need for fuel onboard.
And I didn't like the way the article phrased our lack of materials to build the elevator. Some scientists say that we already do have them, namely carbon nanotubes, but we can't make them in sufficient quantities and length. Other scientists say that it's physically impossible to make carbon nanotubes of that length with enough purity.
Other novels that feature space elevators: Kim Stanley Robinson's Mars Trilogy (mostly a "meh" work, but some fantastic concepts for applied tech), and David Brin's "Sundiver" (awesome novel, but only mentions the space elevators in passing). I'm sure there are many others, but those are the first that come to my mind.
#15
Chibibar
Chibibar
It would have to be massive and strong. I mean you know that someone will try to "blow it up" or a plane accidentally ram into it during "looking at the laptop" moment. (see previous articles about pilot miss the landing due to all members are working on a laptop)
Also the ability to repair (or remote repair) would need to be in place. I can barely imagine the maintenance on that thing. We can barely fix the Hubble's Telescope can you imagine how exponentially complex a space elevator will be?
Also the ability to repair (or remote repair) would need to be in place. I can barely imagine the maintenance on that thing. We can barely fix the Hubble's Telescope can you imagine how exponentially complex a space elevator will be?
#16
Iaculus
Wouldnae fancy their chances.
Iaculus
Seven of 'em versus the rest of the planet, though?To be fair later WW2 tanks would just shrug off fire from tanks circa 1939...
Wouldnae fancy their chances.
#17
Jay
Jay
My first thought was... what about space debris?
#18
figmentPez
figmentPez
Shoot it out of the way with a water gun!My first thought was... what about space debris?
#19
Kitty Sinatra
Kitty Sinatra
There's a sci-fi book that has one of these things topple down by a terrorist attack. I think it was called "Mars" but it might have been "Mercury" or "Jupiter." It was by Ben Bova, who wrote a series of books titled after each planet.
#20
Jake
Jake
You're probably thinking of Kim Stanley Robinson's Mars books, where such a thing did happen.There's a sci-fi book that has one of these things topple down by a terrorist attack. I think it was called "Mars" but it might have been "Mercury" or "Jupiter." It was by Ben Bova, who wrote a series of books titled after each planet.
#21
figmentPez
figmentPez
In David Brin's "Sundiver" the main character is famous for having averted a terrorist attack on the Vanilla Space Needle (a space elevator, and I can't read it's name without thinking of Super Mario World's Vanilla Dome).You're probably thinking of Kim Stanley Robinson's Mars books, where such a thing did happen.
#22
Kitty Sinatra
Given acceleration of 1 g is 9.81 metres per second per second, if we just ignore the acceleration since that acceleration would give us 2 g's and use a speed of 9.81 metres per second we get 35,316 metres per hour. That's 35 km/h, with no acceleration.
Mind you, this is a blasted guesswork with lousy understanding of the underlying math on my part, but it seems like this would be a pretty damn quick trip. I can offer up another question that would better illustrate the trip length. How quickly does a passenger jet take to reach cruising altitude? Multiply that by about 3 since they fly around 6 miles above ground. If the elevator can travel at nearly the same speed as a jet liner ascending, that's how long it will take.
And that's not very long at all.
---------- Post added at 10:36 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:32 PM ----------
No. I'm not thinking of that.
I know it's Ben Bova. And I know it's one of the books I mentioned - Mars, Mercury or Jupiter - I just can't recall which of those books involved that plot (The elevator was on Earth, along the equator . . . it was Mercury. And I'm about to google up the confirmation.
---------- Post added at 10:38 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:36 PM ----------
And confirmed:
Kitty Sinatra
They would have to gradually increase the speed keeping it under like 1.6 g's, and then slow it down as it reached the top. I wonder how long it would take to reach the top of a 22km tower like that? Physics nerds hop to it![/QUOTE]Could you imagine riding that thing?
Given acceleration of 1 g is 9.81 metres per second per second, if we just ignore the acceleration since that acceleration would give us 2 g's and use a speed of 9.81 metres per second we get 35,316 metres per hour. That's 35 km/h, with no acceleration.
Mind you, this is a blasted guesswork with lousy understanding of the underlying math on my part, but it seems like this would be a pretty damn quick trip. I can offer up another question that would better illustrate the trip length. How quickly does a passenger jet take to reach cruising altitude? Multiply that by about 3 since they fly around 6 miles above ground. If the elevator can travel at nearly the same speed as a jet liner ascending, that's how long it will take.
And that's not very long at all.
---------- Post added at 10:36 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:32 PM ----------
You're probably thinking of Kim Stanley Robinson's Mars books, where such a thing did happen.[/QUOTE]There's a sci-fi book that has one of these things topple down by a terrorist attack. I think it was called \"Mars\" but it might have been \"Mercury\" or \"Jupiter.\" It was by Ben Bova, who wrote a series of books titled after each planet.
No. I'm not thinking of that.
I know it's Ben Bova. And I know it's one of the books I mentioned - Mars, Mercury or Jupiter - I just can't recall which of those books involved that plot (The elevator was on Earth, along the equator . . . it was Mercury. And I'm about to google up the confirmation.
---------- Post added at 10:38 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:36 PM ----------
And confirmed:
Plot summary
Mance was the chief visionary and engineer behind the skytower, a super space elevator which ran from Ecuador all the way into low Earth orbit. When religious fundamentalists and agents of the scheming Yamagata Corporation sabotage the skytower, however, millions are killed; Mance is faced with his own guilt for the tragedy and sees himself as ostensibly responsible.
#23
Jake
No. I'm not thinking of that.
[/QUOTE]
No, I'll tell you what to think, boy
Jake
You're probably thinking of Kim Stanley Robinson's Mars books, where such a thing did happen.[/quote]There's a sci-fi book that has one of these things topple down by a terrorist attack. I think it was called "Mars" but it might have been "Mercury" or "Jupiter." It was by Ben Bova, who wrote a series of books titled after each planet.
No. I'm not thinking of that.
[/QUOTE]
No, I'll tell you what to think, boy
#24
figmentPez
figmentPez
A space elevator would be "22,000 miles long" according to the article. That converts to well over 35,000km, or 1,000 hours at 35km/h. Nearly 42 days of travel. According to this site, even "using an average speed of Mach 1 for the elevators, a trip from the ground to the geosynchronous point would take about two days."Given acceleration of 1 g is 9.81 metres per second per second, if we just ignore the acceleration since that acceleration would give us 2 g's and use a speed of 9.81 metres per second we get 35,316 metres per hour. That's 35 km/h, with no acceleration.
Mind you, this is a blasted guesswork with lousy understanding of the underlying math on my part, but it seems like this would be a pretty damn quick trip. I can offer up another question that would better illustrate the trip length. How quickly does a passenger jet take to reach cruising altitude? Multiply that by about 3 since they fly around 6 miles above ground. If the elevator can travel at nearly the same speed as a jet liner ascending, that's how long it will take.
And that's not very long at all.
#25
tegid
tegid
With a constant acceleration for the first half and equal constant deceleration for the second half of about 0.1g, I calculate about 3 hours...
Of course, even though that acceleration shouldn't be so hard to get, I guess... If it weren't for friction which has a component directly proportional to velocity, and since 1 hour of a .1g acceleration gives a mach 10 speed, it's pretty relevant.
Of course, even though that acceleration shouldn't be so hard to get, I guess... If it weren't for friction which has a component directly proportional to velocity, and since 1 hour of a .1g acceleration gives a mach 10 speed, it's pretty relevant.
#26
figmentPez
figmentPez
3 hours to travell 22,000 miles? How are you planning on achieving an average speed of of over 7,000mph relative to the cable?With a constant acceleration for the first half and equal constant deceleration for the second half of about 0.1g, I calculate about 3 hours...
#27
tegid
tegid
I meant to say in the next paragraph that it made no sense due to friction issues and others.
In a perfect world with vacuum, without friction and anything that would destabilize the thingy it shouldn't be a problem. I guess. I mean, I described it in terms of acceleration, not speed. In such a world you could get that speed without problems, couldn't you?
In a perfect world with vacuum, without friction and anything that would destabilize the thingy it shouldn't be a problem. I guess. I mean, I described it in terms of acceleration, not speed. In such a world you could get that speed without problems, couldn't you?
#28
figmentPez
figmentPez
It's not friction or balance or anything I was thinking of, it's power source. One of the main reasons for a space elevator is to avoid having to use rocket propulsion. I suppose in your theoretical world we could assume infinite battery capacity and super powerful motors and what-not that could efficiently use the cable without resorting to strapping rockets outside the vehicle, but in the real world we don't know how to power a cable-crawling vehicle, at low cost per-trip, let alone at high speed.I meant to say in the next paragraph that it made no sense due to friction issues and others.
In a perfect world with vacuum, without friction and anything that would destabilize the thingy it shouldn't be a problem. I guess. I mean, I described it in terms of acceleration, not speed. In such a world you could get that speed without problems, couldn't you?
#29
Kitty Sinatra
That's for the launching a satellite bit. Chaz apparently asked about the tourist destination as he asked about traveling 22km high. That's what I roughly answered
Kitty Sinatra
A space elevator would be "22,000 miles long" according to the article. [/QUOTE]. . .
And that's not very long at all.
That's for the launching a satellite bit. Chaz apparently asked about the tourist destination as he asked about traveling 22km high. That's what I roughly answered