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FOX's Gotham coming soon.

Jan 13, 2014#1

sixpackshaker

I was looking forward to this until.

http://tv.yahoo.com/blogs/tv-news/f...yne--classic--batman--villains-203629027.html

12 year old Bruce Wayne and Villains will be in this show. Gotdammit!

Jan 13, 2014#2

Gryfter

Yeah.... well.... DC/WB.

Jan 13, 2014#3

Hailey Knight

what

Jan 13, 2014#4

filmfanatic

...Why couldn't we have just gotten a Gotham Central series instead of trying to do a show about a younger Gordon that's just going to feature Bruce and all the main Batman villains?

Jan 13, 2014#5

strawman

Oh come on guys. I'm sure it'll be fine, you'll see! All the existential crisis of being batman, but as a teenager! How could it possibly go ~~right~~ wrong?

"I could accept this locker assignment, BUT THAT WON'T BRING MY PARENTS BACK."

"She keeps looking at me. Maybe she likes me. Too bad MY PARENTS ARE DEAAAAAAAAAD!"

"I see the punk next to me is copying my answers again. Fortunately this neeto gadget whats-his-name at the company happened to show off to me yesterday during the field trip can be used to make him see different answers than what I'm writing. Too bad it doesn't matter BECAUSE MY PARENTS WILL NEVER SEE ME GRADUATE!"

"This skateboard I stole from the company is super cool. SORRY ABOUT BLOWING UP YOUR CAR DUDE. I, LIKE, TOTALLY DIDN'T KNOW IT HAD MISSILES IN IT, YOU KNOW?"

It's better than your parents being dead, though...

Jan 13, 2014#6

filmfanatic

stienman said:
Oh come on guys. I'm sure it'll be fine, you'll see! All the existential crisis of being batman, but as a teenager! How could it possibly go ~~right~~ wrong?

"I could accept this locker assignment, BUT THAT WON'T BRING MY PARENTS BACK."

"She keeps looking at me. Maybe she likes me. Too bad MY PARENTS ARE DEAAAAAAAAAD!"

"I see the punk next to me is copying my answers again. Fortunately this neeto gadget whats-his-name at the company happened to show off to me yesterday during the field trip can be used to make him see different answers than what I'm writing. Too bad it doesn't matter BECAUSE MY PARENTS WILL NEVER SEE ME GRADUATE!"

"This skateboard I stole from the company is super cool. SORRY ABOUT BLOWING UP YOUR CAR DUDE. I, LIKE, TOTALLY DIDN'T KNOW IT HAD MISSILES IN IT, YOU KNOW?"

It's better than your parents being dead, though...

With all due credit to fade for finding the pic...

Jan 13, 2014#7

filmfanatic

Okay, I actually read the article.

Man, this is not sounding good. The only I might go along with a teenage Bruce Wayne series is maybe, just maybe, the series idea that Kevin Smith and Paul Dini came up with on Smith's Fat Man on Batman podcast. Even though there are a few points where it goes a bit too far, their idea wasn't that bad.

Jan 13, 2014#8

Jay

Maybe it'll be awesome and Fox will cancel it after it airs 11 episodes.

Jan 14, 2014#9

Bubble181

I looked at the comments.... One guy nailed my thoughts:

Yeah, that's what I want to see, a 12 year old Batman. Cause everyone knows pre-teen Darth Vader was the best part of Episode 1.

Jan 14, 2014#10

SpecialKO

This just makes me wish that "this" was real:

Jan 14, 2014#11

Espy

Look, if you need a good batman tv show why not air re-runs of the Adam West Batman? It's perfect.

Jan 14, 2014#12

drawn_inward

Espy said:
Look, if you need a good batman tv show why not air re-runs of ~~the Adam West~~ Batman:TAS? It's perfect.

Yep!

Jan 14, 2014#13

AshburnerX

My only thought on this? The last time they tried to do a teenage Batman show, we got Batman Beyond... and it was popular enough to become part of the DCU, with several comic series and a movie that were all excellent. I'm willing to give this a shot but I'm prepared to bail if it's crap.

Jan 14, 2014#14

Celt Z

I remember reading, I think it was during the casting of Superman Returns, that DC doesn't like their tv/movie franchises over-lapping. I don't mean crossovers, I mean multiple incarnations of the same character at the same time/age. I think it was in response to why they didn't cast Tom Welling as big screen Superman (aside from the fact that he's really not a strong actor). By making a 12-year-old Bruce Wayne, the show can run at the same time at the new "Bat of Steel" crossover/JLA/whatever movies their making without people comparing two versions of the same age/incarnation of Batman. I guess it also gives more wiggle room for continuity, but continuity has never been comic's strong point anyway.

Kind of the opposite problem of Marvel, who recasts major characters on a dime while trying to bring the movies all into one universe. Seriously, if they ever get their rights back from Fox, I really want to see them have Captain America and the Human Torch in at least one scene together.

And yes, I know there are stirring that they're recasting/rebooting the FF with new actors, but c'mon!

Jan 14, 2014#15

Gryfter

AshburnerX said:
My only thought on this? The last time they tried to do a teenage Batman show, we got Batman Beyond... and it was popular enough to become part of the DCU, with several comic series and a movie that were all excellent. I'm willing to give this a shot but I'm prepared to bail if it's crap.

Except that in the case of Batman beyond, it was always conceived as an original idea that no one had done before. Teenaged Terry McGinnis was not and never will be the same as Bruce Wayne, he had no story until Batman Beyond came out. Batman's origins have been explored repeatedly in the comics and more recently in the movies. The difference between BB and G is one was treading new territory, the other is rehashing what has been done before and done much better. The idea that we are going to get "origins" of the Bat Rogues gallery is all ready showing the show designers ignorance of the characters. Most if not all of Batman's villains appeared after he started hunting criminals and in some cases in direct response to Batman. The idea that any of these guys would appear 8 to 10 years before there even is a Batman is ridiculous.

Jan 14, 2014#16

AshburnerX

Gryfter said:
Except that in the case of Batman beyond, it was always conceived as an original idea that no one had done before. Teenaged Terry McGinnis was not and never will be the same as Bruce Wayne, he had no story until Batman Beyond came out. Batman's origins have been explored repeatedly in the comics and more recently in the movies. The difference between BB and G is one was treading new territory, the other is rehashing what has been done before and done much better. The idea that we are going to get "origins" of the Bat Rogues gallery is all ready showing the show designers ignorance of the characters. Most if not all of Batman's villains appeared after he started hunting criminals and in some cases in direct response to Batman. The idea that any of these guys would appear 8 to 10 years before there even is a Batman is ridiculous.

Actually, before Batman Beyond had the "beyond" bit, it was going to be high school Bruce Wayne doing stuff in modern Gotham. We basically have Bruce Timm and co. to thank for it becoming what it was.

Jan 14, 2014#17

Ravenpoe

AshburnerX said:
Actually, before Batman Beyond had the "beyond" bit, it was going to be high school Bruce Wayne doing stuff in modern Gotham. We basically have Bruce Timm and co. to thank for it becoming what it was.

And thank god they knew to trash that shitty idea and make something good.

Jan 14, 2014#18

Yoshimickster

And a swing and a miss for DC(what a surprise). I thought he was going to be like 18, but freaking 12? Of course thats not nearly as weird as a young Joker. Is he going to be like the Tim Burton Jack Napier, or the comic Jack Napier, or are we going to have a twelve year old clown themed serial killer. By the source don't let it be the latter.

ALSO- "The final episode of the series will be Bruce Wayne putting on the cape." Wow...how original. Its not like DC did that with another show based on a famous super hero.

Jan 14, 2014#19

AshburnerX

Yoshimickster said:
And a swing and a miss for DC(what a surprise). I thought he was going to be like 18, but freaking 12? Of course thats not nearly as weird as a young Joker. Is he going to be like the Tim Burton Jack Napier, or the comic Jack Napier, or are we going to have a twelve year old clown themed serial killer. By the source don't let it be the latter.

ALSO- "The final episode of the series will be Bruce Wayne putting on the cape." Wow...how original. Its not like DC did that with another show based on a famous super hero.

I always thought that the Joker was older than Bruce... by at least 5-10 years, if not more. Or maybe it's just the bleached skin that makes it look that way?

Jan 14, 2014#20

Yoshimickster

AshburnerX said:
I always thought that the Joker was older than Bruce... by at least 5-10 years, if not more. Or maybe it's just the bleached skin that makes it look that way?

Tim Burton version yes, comics not sure as they don't really say when in Batman's career accidentally ACEd him. I just really hope its Jack Napier and not the Joker, like maybe certain prologues would be just of him bombing at a comedy club or something.

Jan 14, 2014#21

ThatNickGuy

You had one job, WB. ONE job. And ya dun goofed.

Seriously, doing a Gotham Central show would've been like printing money.

Jan 14, 2014#22

filmfanatic

ThatNickGuy said:
You had one job, WB. ONE job. And ya dun goofed.

Seriously, doing a Gotham Central show would've been like printing money.

Exactly!

Jan 14, 2014#23

Covar

AshburnerX said:
Actually, before Batman Beyond had the "beyond" bit, it was going to be high school Bruce Wayne doing stuff in modern Gotham. We basically have Bruce Timm and co. to thank for it becoming what it was.

See I would have said Stan Lee and Steve Ditko.[DOUBLEPOST=1389734752,1389734499][/DOUBLEPOST]Regarding a Gotham show, Chris Sims once again explains my problems with it better than I ever could

Jan 14, 2014#24

SpecialKO

I would watch the shit out of a show about Alfred's life before the Waynes. Maybe framed as Alfred telling little Bruce stories.

Jan 14, 2014#25

Hailey Knight

There's so much wrong with this that it's not even worth exploring. Just chuck it out with Loonatics and move on.

Jan 14, 2014#26

ThatNickGuy

I hope the furthest this show gets is the new Wonder Woman show: a horrendous pilot that we can all laugh at for years, but the show itself is never picked up.

See also: the horrendous Justice League live-action movie in the 90s.

Jan 14, 2014#27

figmentPez

I told my friend Kris that if 12 year-old Bruce Wayne is written as much of a Mary Sue as the worst versions of Batman are, then he's going to end up like an emo Wesley Crusher. He responded "Oh, then he'll be Damian Wayne, then?"

Jan 15, 2014#28

evilmike

Hopefully, this project doesn't find a way to interfere with Arrow.

Jan 15, 2014#29

sixpackshaker

evilmike said:
Hopefully, this project doesn't find a way to interfere with Arrow.

Well through the 90's Green Arrow was about 20 years older than Bats...

Jan 15, 2014#30

ThatNickGuy

figmentPez said:
I told my friend Kris that if 12 year-old Bruce Wayne is written as much of a Mary Sue as the worst versions of Batman are, then he's going to end up like an emo Wesley Crusher. He responded "Oh, then he'll be Damian Wayne, then?"

Except Damian was actually well-liked and popular among most of the audience. Wes Crusher was most assuredly...not.

Jan 15, 2014#31

Celt Z

I liked Wesley Crusher!

...I was also 7 years old.

Jan 15, 2014#32

strawman

Celt Z said:
I liked Wesley Crusher!

Jan 15, 2014#33

figmentPez

Celt Z said:
I liked Wesley Crusher!

...I was also 7 years old.

I was 8 when the show started. I have very fond memories of watching that show with my family while eating pizza. I loved Wesley.

Jan 15, 2014#34

ThatNickGuy

You are all dead to me.

Jan 15, 2014#35

Dave

http://video.adultswim.com/robot-chicken/snerkel-snerkel.html

Jan 15, 2014#36

evilmike

sixpackshaker said:
Well through the 90's Green Arrow was about 20 years older than Bats...

My main concern is that a green-lit Gotham series could remove some potential characters from Arrow. I could even see Warner deciding to make a certain character, who happens to be a major Batman villain, off-limits even though he's already been mentioned several times in Arrow this season.

Jan 15, 2014#37

Celt Z

ThatNickGuy said:
You are all dead to me.

...And suddenly we're Bruce's parents.

Jan 15, 2014#38

ThatNickGuy

I'm Batman.

Jan 15, 2014#39

Cheesy1

ThatNickGuy said:
I'm Batman.

Jan 15, 2014#40

ThatNickGuy

Cheesy1 said:
View attachment 13619

It's astonishing the mileage you're getting out of that pic.

Jan 15, 2014#41

filmfanatic

On the subject of Batman TV shows, it looks like the '60s tv show is getting a full release later this year.

http://www.comingsoon.net/news/tvnews.php?id=113589

Jan 15, 2014#42

Cheesy1

ThatNickGuy said:
It's astonishing the mileage you're getting out of that pic.

Jan 15, 2014#43

ThatNickGuy

I'll believe that when I see it.

Feb 12, 2014#44

filmfanatic

More casting news on the Gotham show: Donal Logue as Harvey Bullock.

http://www.comingsoon.net/news/tvnews.php?id=114765

Feb 12, 2014#45

AshburnerX

Hoping to see a Renee Montoya casting soon...

Feb 12, 2014#46

sixpackshaker

AshburnerX said:
Hoping to see a Renee Montoya casting soon...

So, what's your Question?

Mar 18, 2014#47

filmfanatic

Well, in addition to the news that some of the classic villains like Joker and Riddler will be turning up in the show to showcase their humble beginnings, the first picture has arrived of one of them: Oswald Cobblepot, the Penguin.

Mar 18, 2014#48

sixpackshaker

He better be shorter and fatter than he appears...

Mar 18, 2014#49

filmfanatic

sixpackshaker said:
He better be shorter and fatter than he appears...

There are a few other pictures out there and he doesn't really have the weight on him associated with Penguin. At the very least, he at least has a nose that from the side looks hawkish.

Mar 18, 2014#50

filmfanatic

Here's a picture of Harvey Bullock and Jim Gordon.

Mar 18, 2014#51

MindDetective

Are they on Dr Huxtable's stoop or on Sesame Street?

Sent from my MB886 using Tapatalk

Mar 19, 2014#52

Frank

I like Donal Logue a lot, RIP Terriers, but I still don't have a lot of hope for this show not to be bad.

Mar 19, 2014#53

Tress

Close your mouth before you catch flies, Jim. My god that is a dumb look on his face.

Mar 20, 2014#54

Espy

Tress said:
Close your mouth before you catch flies, Jim. My god that is a dumb look on his face.

That actors face makes me angry.

Mar 21, 2014#55

filmfanatic

Another addition to the cast, in the form of Selina Kyle.

Mar 21, 2014#56

sixpackshaker

If Bruce is 11, why is Selina 30?

Mar 21, 2014#57

filmfanatic

sixpackshaker said:
If Bruce is 11, why is Selina 30?

Actually, Selina is going to be a teenage orphan in this series.

Mar 21, 2014#58

sixpackshaker

filmfanatic said:
Actually, Selina is going to be a teenage orphan in this series.

yeesh, like 30 year old Allison Hannigan playing a high school kid.[DOUBLEPOST=1395438583,1395438366][/DOUBLEPOST]OK, she's 14,. But in that pic she looks like she's old playing young.

Mar 21, 2014#59

Frank

Remember guys, this isn't a Batman show...waitaminute. What's up the bat signal?

Mar 21, 2014#60

ThatNickGuy

I have no interest in this series. It's basically Smallville: Batman Edition.

And Smallville lasted ten seasons too long.

Mar 21, 2014#61

Covar

ThatNickGuy said:
I have no interest in this series. It's basically Smallville: Batman Edition.

And Smallville lasted ten seasons too long.

Story goes that Paul Dini was originally tasked with creating a Batman prequel series. He deemed it an unworkable concept for the character, left the project, and the whole thing was retooled to be based on Superman instead.

Mar 21, 2014#62

ThatNickGuy

Covar said:
Story goes that Paul Dini was originally tasked with creating a Batman prequel series. He deemed it an unworkable concept for the character, left the project, and the whole thing was retooled to be based on Superman instead.

And it only BARELY works for Superman. If they had renamed the show Metropolis, put him in the costume, and then continued on fighting super villains and doing team-ups and quasi-Justice League stuff, I'd have a lot less problems with the show.

Honestly, I was excited about this particular project when it was going to be basically Gotham Central. I'm a LOT less interested now.

Mar 24, 2014#63

Espy

Jeeze this looks like shit.

May 5, 2014#64

evilmike

The first trailer is up:

May 5, 2014#65

ThatNickGuy

Jesus Christ, they actually used the "There's a war coming" line? Why not just say "There's a storm coming" while you're at it?

Yeah, I'm sorry, this looks like crap.

May 5, 2014#66

figmentPez

ThatNickGuy said:
Yeah, I'm sorry, this looks like crap.

This. So much this. I started rolling my eyes as soon as tween Catwoman appeared on screen.

May 6, 2014#67

Jay

The fuck did I just watch.[DOUBLEPOST=1399352807,1399352739][/DOUBLEPOST]Donal was pretty awesome on Vkings btw

May 6, 2014#68

Espy

Oh that looks great!

No, wait, shit. That looks shit.

May 6, 2014#69

Gryfter

I... what....I...can't think....the stupidity is is overwhelming.

May 6, 2014#70

Tress

It didn't look THAT bad. And yes, I'm being serious.

May 6, 2014#71

ThatNickGuy

Chris Sims wrote about the idea of the show awhile ago. He raises some really good points about why it just doesn't work.

http://comicsalliance.com/gordon-fox-television-batman-gotham-city-dc/

May 6, 2014#72

Espy

Tress said:
It didn't look THAT bad. And yes, I'm being serious.

It had a nice cinematic "look". But it looked like shit. Wait, sorry, WAR. It looked like WAR was coming or starting or something something WAR. It obviously has decent production values, I'll give them that. It also has decent WAR. And WAR WAR WAR. It's coming. Or it's here. WAR.

May 6, 2014#73

Covar

Before the Penguin...Oswald Cobblepot was a high ranking mobster with desires of high society and a fixation on birds.

May 6, 2014#74

Ravenpoe

Covar said:
Before the Penguin...Oswald Cobblepot was a high ranking mobster with desires of high society and a fixation on birds.

View attachment 14769

......... then what was he after Penguin?

May 6, 2014#75

Covar

Based on the ages of the actors, old.

May 8, 2014#76

CynicismKills

Everyone knows he's a gross sphere that likes to bite people's noses and make black blood come out.

Right?

Jun 26, 2014#77

figmentPez

Ivy Pepper...

They're renaming Pamela Isley to Ivy Pepper.

What in the name of Kanigher and Moldoff are they thinking?!

I'm just going to sit here and try to let this headache pass, while hoping that The Flash doesn't rename Eobard Thawne to Zoom Stryker.

Jun 26, 2014#78

filmfanatic

figmentPez said:
Ivy Pepper...

They're renaming Pamela Isley to Ivy Pepper.

What in the name of Kanigher and Moldoff are they thinking?!

I'm just going to sit here and try to let this headache pass, while hoping that The Flash doesn't rename Eobard Thawne to Zoom Stryker.

No, they just renamed him Eddie Thawne. At least they kept part of the name

Jun 26, 2014#79

figmentPez

filmfanatic said:
No, they just renamed him Eddie Thawne. At least they kept part of the name

Wut?

*sigh*

Jun 26, 2014#80

ThatNickGuy

I hope this show bombs and bombs hard.

Jun 26, 2014#81

Cog

Why? It's no different to any modern adaptation of a classic novel. Similar names, different circumstances. Who cares if batman ever appears? They just need to tell a good story.

Jun 26, 2014#82

ThatNickGuy

Cog said:
Why? It's no different to any modern adaptation of a classic novel. Similar names, different circumstances. Who cares if batman ever appears? They just need to tell a good story.

Because the whole point of having all these supervillains is for Batman to fight them. If the show was just Gotham Central, where Batman is already in the universe and it's the cops trying to do their job, then that would've made for a much more sensible premise.

It's the same problem Smallville had. Why bother having him fight all these supervillains and even team up with other heroes to the point of having a quasi-Justice League if you don't just put him in the costume? It's taking that conceit and actually making it worse by not having Batman in the show at all.

Jun 26, 2014#83

Cog

That's it? It's not comic book enough? The whole premise is ruined without batman? Why do you want it to be worse?

Jun 26, 2014#84

ThatNickGuy

Cog said:
That's it? It's not comic book enough? The whole premise is ruined without batman? Why do you want it to be worse?

Forget it. You seem to only ever post when you want to be antagonistic and start an argument (to say nothing of belittling people). Chris Sims said it better than I could. Go look at the link posted at the top of this page.

Jun 26, 2014#85

Cog

Well, this is something I like to talk about. I'm not insulting you. I like to know about this stuff. I want to know why this kind of thing are so important for so many people. Why people like you take this adaptations like some kind of insult. I feel like if I understand why things apparently irrelevant are so important (or at least important enough to provoque an angry reaction) for people like you, I could understand better other aspects of humanity.

Jun 26, 2014#86

Hailey Knight

Cog said:
That's it? It's not comic book enough? The whole premise is ruined without batman? Why do you want it to be worse?

He didn't say he wants it to be worse. It's already a shitty idea. What he wants is for no one to watch it so it gets cancelled. That's he meant by wanting it to bomb.

Jun 26, 2014#87

AshburnerX

ThatNickGuy said:
Because the whole point of having all these supervillains is for Batman to fight them. If the show was just Gotham Central, where Batman is already in the universe and it's the cops trying to do their job, then that would've made for a much more sensible premise.

It's the same problem Smallville had. Why bother having him fight all these supervillains and even team up with other heroes to the point of having a quasi-Justice League if you don't just put him in the costume? It's taking that conceit and actually making it worse by not having Batman in the show at all.

The fundamental problem with Smallville is that it should have ended when he left Smallville. Up until the moment he leaves for Metropolis, it's okay that he's not in costume... stakes are smaller. But the moment he goes to Metropolis, things HAD to change and they didn't. That was the entire failing of the show.

And yeah... this should have been a Gotham Central show, but then that leaves one big problem: Batman. How long do you go before you show Batman? How often should he be on the show? What is his involvement with the cast of the show who aren't Gordon? The entire premise of the show is that he shouldn't be involved, but the average viewer is going to wonder why they aren't watching a bad ass Batman show instead.

Jun 26, 2014#88

ThatNickGuy

AshburnerX said:
And yeah... this should have been a Gotham Central show, but then that leaves one big problem: Batman. How long do you go before you show Batman? How often should he be on the show? What is his involvement with the cast of the show who aren't Gordon? The entire premise of the show is that he shouldn't be involved, but the average viewer is going to wonder why they aren't watching a bad ass Batman show instead.

Same way they dealt with him in the comics: barely even there. Most of his appearances were quick shots, like seeing part of his cape blow past or something. Not all, of course. He even had some very - very - brief speaking moments. But the comic's focus was like 99.9% on the cops.

Jun 26, 2014#89

AshburnerX

Maybe I'm not giving the TV audience enough credit. Agents of SHIELD is doing fine and it's basically the same concept as Gotham Central... though it has the benefit of Disney being able to help prop up the show by releasing exclusive trailers and such.

Maybe the real issue here is that Gotham Central would only work if it had an expanded universe to play around in and DC won't be doing that until Justice League. That's basically the only reason I can see why they wouldn't do THAT show instead of this dreck.

Jun 27, 2014#90

Celt Z

I think the show could have potential in a way that Smallville wrote itself into a corner. By making Clark the main character, they could only do so much because we know at some point he's going to officially become Superman. By putting Bruce Wayne as a background character, we're not limited to focusing on his development (which was pretty well covered in Batman Begins, plus all the comics). I think it has to potential to show WHY Gotham needs a Batman. We see how "ordinary" cops would have to deal with extraordinary villains in a David v. Goliath scenario, which is also something Smallville could never do, because even inexperienced, Clark is still super powered. And since we're not focusing on Batman, they have a bit more room to play around with continuity, unlike SHIELD which still has to make sure they acknowledge the movie-verse (which is something I like about SHIELD, btw). In some ways, the stakes could be higher because none of these character incarnations have to saved because they're appearing in the movie-verse.

As I've stated before, I also have Batman-fatigue, so take my opinion with a grain of salt. I'm okay with not seeing Batman for a while. And truthfully, I'm not really invested in this show. If it succeeds or fails, at the moment, makes no difference to me. But I've been to a lot of sites that cover it, and the opinions on it range wildly from "I can't wait for it!!!" to "Why are they doing this?". Just from what I've read, this is my own take on it.

Jun 27, 2014#91

figmentPez

Celt Z said:
I think it had to potential to show WHY Gotham needs a Batman.

It might be interesting if they did that, but my pessimistic side is worried that they'll just shove tweenage Bruce Wayne into the role of "Batman, but without the cape & cowl". If they didn't want to have Batman be a character, they shouldn't have put baby bats into the show at all.

Jun 27, 2014#92

Celt Z

figmentPez said:
It might be interesting if they did that, but my pessimistic side is worried that they'll just shove tweenage Bruce Wayne into the role of "Batman, but without the cape & cowl". If they didn't want to have Batman be a character, they shouldn't have put baby bats into the show at all.

(Sorry, that should have been "has the potential". Coffee didn't kick in yet.)
Anyway, I think they have to put Bruce in there somewhere because Wayne Enterprises was such a big part of Gotham even before Bruce came of age. It would be pretty hard not to acknowledge that at all.

Jun 27, 2014#93

figmentPez

Celt Z said:
(Sorry, that should have been "has the potential". Coffee didn't kick in yet.)
Anyway, I think they have to put Bruce in there somewhere because Wayne Enterprises was such a big part of Gotham even before Bruce came of age. It would be pretty hard not to acknowledge that at all.

True, but they're making him part of the advertising. I think that's a sign that they're not going to just have him be part of the universe, but they're planning on having him be part of the plots. It's one thing to acknowledge that Wayne Enterprises is part of Gotham, but it will be something else if they have little Bruce Wayne as a recurring character. He should be focused on his education and training, harboring his desire for vengeance, not running Wayne Enterprises and having romances with Ivy Pepper.

Jun 27, 2014#94

Celt Z

That's just to get the Plebs' attention.

Network shows can't survive on fanboy/fangirl numbers alone. They're not high enough to equal successful ratings. They have to draw in non-fans, too, and thus the (assumed) bate-and-switch with Little Brucie. I don't necessarily agree with it, but I understand why they do it.

Jun 28, 2014#95

drifter

Celt Z said:
bate-and-switch with Little Brucie.

Jun 28, 2014#96

Celt Z

drifter said:

I think you mean

Jun 28, 2014#97

drifter

Depends on what you mean by Little Brucie :unibrow:

Jun 28, 2014#98

figmentPez

My name is Bruce, and I'm not sure I'm comfortable with where this conversation is going.

Jun 30, 2014#99

Covar

A show about why Gotham needs Batman, is a show where the protagonists are ineffective and fail constantly. Which is terrible television.

Jul 5, 2014#100

Hailey Knight

Covar said:
A show about why Gotham needs Batman, is a show where the protagonists are ineffective and fail constantly. Which is terrible television.

Attack on Titan is a compelling show and its protagonists fail in almost every episode. And even when they succeed, it's costly and comes with many of its own failures. But damn do they try.

This show isn't going to be good like that, but it can be done. It doesn't have to be the new Teen Titans.

Jul 5, 2014#101

AshburnerX

The entire point of Gotham Central is that the city was terrible and could never be saved... in fact, it probably didn't DESERVE to be saved. But that didn't mean that it wasn't worth trying because the lives saved meant something to someone. It was very much about the small victories you could get when everyone was working against you, even your own people.

Gotham will not be that show, but it should have been.

Jul 9, 2014#102

HCGLNS

http://www.theouthousers.com/index....l&utm_source=facebook.com&utm_campaign=buffer

Jul 10, 2014#103

Espy

I haven't clicked on your link but by your picture I'm guessing they have added Spiderman to the cast?!? Fantastic!

Jul 10, 2014#104

filmfanatic

Espy said:
I haven't clicked on your link but by your picture I'm guessing they have added Spiderman to the cast?!? Fantastic!

Nah, it's just DC refusing to pay royalties to a character's creator because they're using them in Gotham.

Jul 10, 2014#105

Espy

Just read it. Thats a pretty dick move. Not as bad as this though:

This is small change compared to the fact that the estate of Jack Kirby receives no share of the billions in dollars that Marvel/Disney makes from movies based on characters he co-created.

Seriously??? Holy shit Marvel/Disney. Wow. How is the Kirby estate not suing the shit out of them?

Jul 10, 2014#106

HCGLNS

They are, and the courts continue to rule in Marvel favour because of reasons.

Jul 10, 2014#107

Ravenpoe

Espy said:
Just read it. Thats a pretty dick move. Not as bad as this though:

Seriously??? Holy shit Marvel/Disney. Wow. How is the Kirby estate not suing the shit out of them?

You don't know of the epic screwjob that Stan Lee and Marvel gave to Jack Kirby? It's basically a wonder that he even still gets credited.

Jul 10, 2014#108

Espy

No, I must have missed it. Wow.

Jul 10, 2014#109

ThatNickGuy

Espy said:
No, I must have missed it. Wow.

Yeah, Jack got NOTHING for basically co-creating the Marvel universe as we know it with Stan Lee. It's not all Lee's fault. It was the corporate higher-ups who, like the fans, only saw Smilin' Stan's face and name on everything. Jack Kirby wasn't a people person, since he spent all his time at the drawing board. He had an insane work-rate, like when he was working at DC and writing/drawing THREE comics a month (about 66+ pages of art every month).

But Jack told a story once where he asked about getting some more recognition - and money - from Marvel for all the characters he created. The corporate bigwigs basically said, "No. Stan has all the ideas. You guys just draw them." Which was so very, very wrong. Especially with Stan's (and Marvel's) method of writing: plot out the bare basics with the artist, the artist goes and draws the whole comic, then Stan does the dialogue and narration. One could strongly argue that the artists did more of the work than Stan, yet he's the household name while Jack Kirby struggled financially for most of his life.

And since we're in a Batman-related thread, Bill Finger should be mentioned. He got screwed so badly by Bob Kane (blatantly in this case, unlike Stan Lee) that he's not even MENTIONED as a co-creator by DC.

Jul 15, 2014#110

ThatNickGuy

http://www.bleedingcool.com/2014/07/15/a-new-possible-joker-in-every-episode-of-gotham/

In another episode of "Let's Judge the Fuck Out of This Show Before it Airs Because Reasons," (or LJFOTSBIABR as the fans call it) we find our intrepid heroes believing that teasing a different Joker in EVERY single episode is guaranteed to get old very fast.

(Not to mention that, out of all of Batman's villains, Joker created himself to directly oppose Batman or because of Batman's presence in the city.)

Jul 15, 2014#111

Espy

Well that sounds stupid. The reality is, as much as the show is supposed to be about "Gotham" it's really going to be just Batman without Batman. They aren't even bothering to pretend it's anything other than that at this point.[DOUBLEPOST=1405445454,1405445427][/DOUBLEPOST]Keep in mind: That doesn't mean it might not be a good show. Who knows? But it sounds silly.

Jul 15, 2014#112

Celt Z

Espy said:
it's really going to be just Batman without Batman.

Is that like "Garfield Minus Garfield"? Because there are a few Batman comics I think would be oddly entertaining with Bats 'shopped out.

Jul 15, 2014#113

Espy

Celt Z said:
Is that like "Garfield Minus Garfield"? Because there are a few Batman comics I think would be oddly entertaining with Bats 'shopped out.

Sadly no. Because it will be referencing him constantly with teen Bruce Wayne and his rogues gallery. So my guess is it will always seem "off", like they wanted to do a Batman show but weren't allowed by DC.

Jul 30, 2014#114

figmentPez

"You don't want to miss an episode because you might miss the first appearance of the Joker."

No. Screw you Gotham.

Jul 30, 2014#115

Yoshimickster

That trailer had so much ham in it I think I may die of a heart attack from sodium overdose.

Jul 30, 2014#116

ThatNickGuy

"What made The Riddler? What made Scarecrow? What made Joker?"

BATMAN, you fucking morons. BATMAN made them.

Jul 30, 2014#117

Hailey Knight

ThatNickGuy said:
"What made The Riddler? What made Scarecrow? What made Joker?"

BATMAN, you fucking morons. BATMAN made them.

Now I want to watch the Two-Face origin episodes from Batman: TAS.

"Why couldn't you save us, son?"

Damn did that show get Batman.

Jul 30, 2014#118

Tress

To be honest, it didn't look THAT bad. I'm willing to give it a shot.

Jul 30, 2014#119

Gryfter

ThatNickGuy said:
"What made The Riddler? What made Scarecrow? What made Joker?"

BATMAN, you fucking morons. BATMAN made them.

And there in lies my biggest problem with the conceit of this show. First there was Batman.... then all the freaks came out. They are a response to the Threat Batman poses to normal criminals.....you know... the ones that a regular cop like Gordon would be after.

Instead of fledgling Batman villains it should have been the various crime families and industrialists that are the backdrop of Bats early career; the Falcone's, the Dagget's, the Zucco's and such. Then show Jim Gordon rising to deal with it but constantly coming up against barriers. Really show why even a good cop like him can't get the job done and Gotham needs the Batman.

Tress said:
To be honest, it didn't look THAT bad. I'm willing to give it a shot.

While I would love to watch Donal Logue in action (and he is honestly the only draw for me at this point)... I know too much about the Batverse for me to be able to enjoy it so I am going to pass.

Jul 30, 2014#120

Hailey Knight

It's funny how in this thread people have suggested multiple ways of making this kind of show work, and it will do none of them.

Jul 31, 2014#121

Tress

Gryfter said:
While I would love to watch Donal Logue in action (and he is honestly the only draw for me at this point)... I know too much about the Batverse for me to be able to enjoy it so I am going to pass.

Maybe that's why this doesn't look so bad to me. I'm not as familiar with Batman's history and background

Jul 31, 2014#122

Espy

Zero Esc said:
It's funny how in this thread people have suggested multiple ways of making this kind of show work, and it will do none of them.

I think we have a post that covers that... gimme a second.[DOUBLEPOST=1406815943,1406815836][/DOUBLEPOST]FOUND IT:

Espy said:
Hey guys, did you know your ~~cable~~ Television companies sometimes screw you over? You did? You can even prove? Great! Now go fuck off because you can't do anything about it.

Jul 31, 2014#123

Hailey Knight

Espy said:
I think we have a post that covers that... gimme a second.[DOUBLEPOST=1406815943,1406815836][/DOUBLEPOST]FOUND IT:

Eh, I don't think that applies as well to this situation. There is plenty of good Batman out there to watch besides this.

But keep trying, Espy. Keep submitting to the man.

Jul 31, 2014#124

drawn_inward

Yoshimickster said:
That trailer had so much ham in it I think I may die of a heart attack from sodium overdose.

Because ham (and other processed meats) have a large amount of sodium (and nitrates) in them; sometimes both (NaNO3). And, as we all know excess sodium can lead to hypertension, which can lead the heart attacking your body.

Sep 3, 2014#125

HCGLNS

Just announced that Gotham will be available exclusively on Netflix after each seasons original network broadcast.

Sep 3, 2014#126

@Li3n

ThatNickGuy said:
"What made The Riddler? What made Scarecrow? What made Joker?"

BATMAN, you fucking morons. BATMAN made them.

You know, even post crisis, that's not really true... Batman is the reason why they started playing dress up and adopting funny names, but the conceit was always that they where all already crazy in their own unique ways.

Joker's the only one you can tie directly to Bats, and he was already the Red Hood (intentionally or not) before falling into a bunch of chemicals that gave him his look.

Sep 23, 2014#127

ThatNickGuy

So watched the first episode. It's not terrible, but it's not very good, either. The cop-related stuff was pretty good and I actually like a lot of the cop characters like Gordon, Bullock, Montoya, and Allen.

The show really falters when it starts doing cutsey nods and references to villains and such.
"Enough with the riddles, Nygma."
"Don't call me Penguin!"
(Future Poison Ivy in front of a plant)
"It's at 14th and Grundy."

Ugh. It was just annoying and felt shoe-horned in when they already had some good things going for the show. I imagine it's only going to get worse from here as far as that goes.

Still, I don't know. I didn't hate it enough to stop watching. So I'll give it a few more episodes.

Sep 23, 2014#128

Covar

Pamela Isley has been renamed to Ivy Pepper, making her Dr. Pepper.

Sep 23, 2014#129

filmfanatic

ThatNickGuy said:
Still, I don't know. I didn't hate it enough to stop watching. So I'll give it a few more episodes.

I had a similar feel. It's not as terrible as I was expecting, but it wasn't that good either. I will say that I dug Donal Logue as Harvey Bullock.

That said, this just reminds me of my earlier opinion that we should have gotten a Gotham Central-type series instead of showing us Gordon's early days with early versions of Bruce Wayne and Batman's villains all crowbarred in.

Sep 23, 2014#130

sixpackshaker

I think they just revealed too much about Bullock in this episode. A character this blatantly crooked could not survive on the force, even one as bad as GCPD.

Sep 23, 2014#131

Fun Size

Having not seen it, I would point at Year One, where basically every single cop is just a blatant crook.

Sep 23, 2014#132

AshburnerX

Fun Size said:
Having not seen it, I would point at Year One, where basically every single cop is just a blatant crook.

Or even Gotham Central, where it's clear that most of the force is still on the take, including Harvey I believe.

Sep 23, 2014#133

ThatNickGuy

Actually, I don't think Harvey's as crooked as we saw. Yeah, he's knee deep in crooked things, but I think he does it just to survive as a cop. He's not like Flass was in Batman Begins, who was a total dickhead and out to make money, too. It seems like it's just a life in the city he's grown to accept. Ditto for Montoya and Allen's need to be media celebrities. They're not BAD cops, just self-centered. And I think in both cases, I think that's the point of Gordon. He's the bright light for all three to learn from and become better cops as a result. We already saw that a little with Harvey by the end of this episode.

Honestly, if they focus less on the villain stuff and more on the cops, I think it'll be a good show. I don't expect they will, but we'll see. The cop stuff was the best stuff so far.

Though that said, the people they got to play Nygma and Cobblepot were totally spot on. ESPECIALLY Cobblepot. Loved that maniacal glee he had from beating that guy in the alley.

Sep 27, 2014#134

D

Dubyamn

I liked it. There was some goofy stuff like how apparently in Gotham a cop can lose his career because the man he shot in self defense was not guilty of the crime they were investigating when he ran and tried to stab a cop. I mean I can see them suffering a little bit from opening a case that everybody considered over and done with but not over a legitimate shooting.

Also the scene where Gordon offered to resign to Bruce Wayne was completely overdone. I know what they were trying to do keep Wayne in the swing of the show but that was completely unbelievable to me.

Beyond that show hit all of the right notes. Maybe they should have had fewer examples of future villians but I liked it.

Sep 27, 2014#135

Null

The biggest problem with Gotham is that Jim Gordon can't win. He can't make any headway, he can't defeat the villains, and he can't cleanup Gotham. Why not? Because if he did, there would be no need for Batman. Batman arises as a direct response to the entrenched corruption and ineffectiveness of Gotham's law enforcement and judicial systems. Gangsters who operate with near impunity, a police force that is either on the take or intimidated into silence, requiring someone outside the law to take the fight to them - to break up their operations, disrupt their organizations, to give them something to be afraid of, to give the good people of Gotham a chance to go on with their lives. So if Jim Gordon is at all successful, he essentially negates the development of Batman. The result is basically going to be an urban crime drama of Gilligan's Island - despite the variety of situations, the overall arc never really progresses, because it can't.

Sep 28, 2014#136

Bowielee

Gryfter said:
And there in lies my biggest problem with the conceit of this show. First there was Batman.... then all the freaks came out. They are a response to the Threat Batman poses to normal criminals.....you know... the ones that a regular cop like Gordon would be after.

Instead of fledgling Batman villains it should have been the various crime families and industrialists that are the backdrop of Bats early career; the Falcone's, the Dagget's, the Zucco's and such. Then show Jim Gordon rising to deal with it but constantly coming up against barriers. Really show why even a good cop like him can't get the job done and Gotham needs the Batman.

While I would love to watch Donal Logue in action (and he is honestly the only draw for me at this point)... I know too much about the Batverse for me to be able to enjoy it so I am going to pass.

I love this post. It's not like the Batman comic doesn't have a ton of non-supervillian characters to work with.

Sep 29, 2014#137

Covar

Sep 29, 2014#138

figmentPez

ThatNickGuy said:
Still, I don't know. I didn't hate it enough to stop watching. So I'll give it a few more episodes.

I hated it enough to stop watching. Less than 3 minutes in* I started hating it. Gave it the rest of the episode to redeem itself, but it just kept digging itself deeper. By the half-hour mark I decided I won't be watching another episode.

*

Tweenage Catwoman watching as the Waynes are gunned down? Nope, done, bye.

Oct 1, 2014#139

@Li3n

Null said:
The biggest problem with Gotham is that Jim Gordon can't win. He can't make any headway, he can't defeat the villains, and he can't cleanup Gotham. Why not? Because if he did, there would be no need for Batman. Batman arises as a direct response to the entrenched corruption and ineffectiveness of Gotham's law enforcement and judicial systems. Gangsters who operate with near impunity, a police force that is either on the take or intimidated into silence, requiring someone outside the law to take the fight to them - to break up their operations, disrupt their organizations, to give them something to be afraid of, to give the good people of Gotham a chance to go on with their lives. So if Jim Gordon is at all successful, he essentially negates the development of Batman. The result is basically going to be an urban crime drama of Gilligan's Island - despite the variety of situations, the overall arc never really progresses, because it can't.

Well that's ot true... he can win some, get some people in jail etc... and then they just get replaced by other people that are just as bad... drive home the message that Gotham isn't gonna be fixed by normal means...

Oct 12, 2014#140

Kovac

How is it any different from what Batman faces in the future?

He never really wins does he? He puts the villains away for a short time and they inevitably escape and the cycle begins again.

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