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One of my old Master's students sent me an email the other day asking for a reference for a doctoral program. Now, this guy is a nice guy, and he tries very hard, but I truly, honestly don't believe he'd cut it in a doctoral program. Since he already has a master's, a letter of reference would probably mean he'd get in. He'd probably even be able to get by in the work, relying on lots of help (in lieu of doing the work the way it should be done). The problem is that an employer has a level of expectation for a Ph.D. They want to see massive expertise, independence, and novelty. I don't think that he would have those three things at the end of a Ph.D. program. It's hard to tell someone "no" when it comes to this stuff. Have you had to turn one down before?

Reference letter, no. I haven't done that (not important enough to give one heheh) I have turn on co-sign a car once and co-sign a house. I told them (my friends) that I am not comfortable in that situation and the stability of their job doesn't guarantee it. It turns out I was right he did lose his job about a year ago.

edit: was it easy? no. But I figure the honest approach is the best approach. I would (if it were me) tell him why you would not give him a reference letter. Yea, he might be hurt by it, but that is real life for ya.

I've had to turn down people for employment reference letters and have been turned down myself for the same thing. When I was turned down, my ex-boss told me why he didn't think I was cut out for the job I was applying to. It hurt but it made me re-evaluate why I was applying for that particular job. I ended up not applying and going for something more in line with what I was trained to do. In my case, it worked out better in the long run.

I have. Inherited problem and we would love to be rid of what appears to be a Chernobyl-and-drugs derived attitudinal and un-trainable sponge-monkey but to pawn the individual off would mean compromising myself to do so. I'm going to decline but the temptation to write some glowing review and try to cast this individual out is certainly there.

Neon Pirate said:

I have. Inherited problem and we would love to be rid of what appears to be a Chernobyl-and-drugs derived attitudinal and un-trainable sponge-monkey but to pawn the individual off would mean compromising myself to do so. I'm going to decline but the temptation to write some glowing review and try to cast this individual out is certainly there.

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Heh. Poor guy. Boy, that is a hard part, but the sad thing you are placing your good name in that "glowing" letter which could reflect badly on you

I've only had to turn someone down once, and I did so in a rather evasive manner. It was something along the lines of, ""I wouldn't be a good reference for you because I haven't worked with you long enough to be able to confidently recommend you. You'll be better off looking for someone that can give you a great personal recommendation, rather than the short, neutral recommendation I'd be able to provide."

But you could always go with the time tested, "I can't give you a recommendation. The last three guys that I gave a recommendation for were not accepted to their program, and I strongly suspect it was the bestiality humor I added to their recommendations. I mean who doesn't find that funny? Anyway, you'd better ask someone else."

stienman said:

I've only had to turn someone down once, and I did so in a rather evasive manner. It was something along the lines of, ""I wouldn't be a good reference for you because I haven't worked with you long enough to be able to confidently recommend you. You'll be better off looking for someone that can give you a great personal recommendation, rather than the short, neutral recommendation I'd be able to provide."

But you could always go with the time tested, "I can't give you a recommendation. The last three guys that I gave a recommendation for were not accepted to their program, and I strongly suspect it was the bestiality humor I added to their recommendations. I mean who doesn't find that funny? Anyway, you'd better ask someone else."

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LOL! I love it!