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A friend of mine gave birth two months ago, and freaked out this week when her baby got 5 shots at her 2 month checkup, and is now paranoid that the vaccinations are some government conspiracy to make people sick or do drug testing or whatever.

Are there reputable resources online debunking any of these stupid fears/concerns, because she's pretty off the wall about this.

I don't begrudge her paranoia on the situation, since her first child was stillborn at the hospital after nothing was wrong the entire pregnancy/labor, so she's very distrusting of medical professionals right now. I'm looking for official medical studies, or at least reports that reference official medical studies, in hopes that facts will sway her and that she won't get defensive/argumentative about it anymore.

I love Penn & Teller.

Just point to a calendar that it is 2011.


Hey lady it is 2011 LIVE LIKE IT!!

Piotyr said:

I don't begrudge her paranoia on the situation, since her first child was stillborn at the hospital after nothing was wrong the entire pregnancy/labor, so she's very distrusting of medical professionals right now. I'm looking for official medical studies, or at least reports that reference official medical studies, in hopes that facts will sway her and that she won't get defensive/argumentative about it anymore.

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Perhaps you should mention that the original article about this vaccination scare has recently been debunked due to the researcher basically making up his own facts and using unsound methodology to support his pre-conceived results. Just google "Lancet vaccination" and you should find at least one article about that.

Also, check out the sources linked to by the CDC.

http://www.cdc.gov/vaccinesafety/Concerns/Autism/Index.html

Though, if she's hell-bent on the "government conspiracy" kick, I'm not sure that there's a thing on Earth that will satisfy her.

Who you gonna call!?

Ask her if she's okay with letting her kid die from easily preventable illnesses.

The first thing I would tell her is to talk to her pediatrician about her fears. Speak with her ob/gyn or family doctor as well. If her problem is that her child is getting a lot of shots at once (and believe me, as a mother I absolutely hate it when my kids go for immunizations because 4 and 5 needles at one time is terrible), see if the pediatrician will work with her on an alternate schedule. Most are willing to at least consider it.
Added at: 13:15
http://kidshealth.org/teen/school_jobs/college/immunizations.html

http://www.immunizationinfo.org/parents/why-immunize

Measles:


Mumps:


Pertussis (whooping cough):



The pattern here is that there has been an increases in reported incidents of very preventable diseases. The vaccinations have been around for decades and the reason these diseases are coming back is because people are refusing vaccinations. If she is worried about a lot of vaccinations at once, have them spread out over several visits. Otherwise she is setting her child up to be a statistic.

I can't see any of the replies in this thread

I personally love living in a society where the average Joe will believe celebrities over medical doctors regarding medicine.

Don't do anything. That's my advice. Let her kid catch Polio if she's really that stupid.

You should be able to find plenty of info about mumps and pertussis considering the outbreaks in recent years due to people not getting vaccines. In the case of pertussis (whooping cough) there have been babies who died because they were too young to be immunized and caught it from someone in the community that also was not immunized. The vaccines do not just protect the child getting it, but it ensures a certain level of herd immunity within the community for those who cannot be immunized for medical reasons.

Tell her she'll have a blast trying to register for public school without vaccination records.

I can't help it, I want to try to help, even if she's being naive.

I linked her to the CDC website on the autism myth and answers to parents' FAQs, along with saying that the diseases the immunizations prevent are far worse than the side effects of any immunization, even if you occasionally see a story about one person permanently disabled from a vaccine.

Mathias said:

Tell her she'll have a blast trying to register for public school without vaccination records.

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so untrue, it's stupidly easy to get around vacc. requirements.

^ This. All you had to do in CA is sign on the back of the child's record saying that you oppose vaccination for religious or other (moral/ethical maybe?) reasons.

And...her whole family is telling her to not get vaccinations, because "the government can't be trusted".

I give up, some people are just ignorant.
Added at: 10:38
And now she's looking and asking around for pediatricians that won't give immunizations.

I hate people.

Piotyr said:

And...her whole family is telling her to not get vaccinations, because "the government can't be trusted".

I give up, some people are just ignorant.

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I am sadden by this.
I WANT to be a parent. We are trying to have a child. I know that I will love and protect that child with everything I got. why in the world I would let my child get diseases that can EASILY be prevented by vaccination. It baffles me.
I can understand that people fear the government (especially with all the mess they are doing lately) but when it comes to my kids (future kids) I rather them to be safe and healthy than having to worry if my kid might die from whooping cough or measles.

If she's that irrational and protective I'm surprised she let the kid out of her uterus.

"Nobody knows what's best for their kids more than their parents."

My response: "That is total crap. I'm a parent, and I think there are TONS of people that know more than I do about things, especially medicine. Those people are called doctors, and they studied medicine for 10 years specifically to help people that don't have the time or knowledge to do just that."

Apparently she deleted the conversation now and blocked me from Facebook. Guess that means she won't talk to me on the phone now, either.

Piotyr said:

"Nobody knows what's best for their kids more than their parents."

My response: "That is total crap. I'm a parent, and I think there are TONS of people that know more than I do about things, especially medicine. Those people are called doctors, and they studied medicine for 10 years specifically to help people that don't have the time or knowledge to do just that."

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Alternatively, show them all the fat kids at McDonald's with their parents.

I hope her kid does not get sick but I believe she has genuinely put her child at a higher risk for entirely preventable diseases.

Honestly, dude, I think you're better off. I don't mean to be a complete asshole, but if/when I have kids, I would not want them to play with someone else's kids who haven't been vaccinated.

SpecialKO said:

Honestly, dude, I think you're better off. I don't mean to be a complete asshole, but if/when I have kids, I would not want them to play with someone else's kids who haven't been vaccinated.

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here here!

I'm just pissed and saddened right now that a person I consider a friend actually thinks like this and won't listen to me and thinks I've somehow succumbed to herd mentality.

You did the best you could. At least you tried.

Piotyr said:

I'm just pissed and saddened right now that a person I consider a friend actually thinks like this and won't listen to me and thinks I've somehow succumbed to herd mentality.

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Well. I don't know what to say on that tho I am sorry that her kids will be expose to all EXTRA crap in this world that could be easily prevented. It is hard enough as it is without having to worry about diseases that you could prevent via vaccination.

SpecialKO said:

Honestly, dude, I think you're better off. I don't mean to be a complete asshole, but if/when I have kids, I would not want them to play with someone else's kids who haven't been vaccinated.

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I had an acquaintance when we were living in CA with a son the same age as mine. They would play together quite often for a while. The other little boy had some behavior issues that made me start turning down play dates more often. Then I found out that she didn't believe in vaccinating. I all but quit going to her house. I felt like it was protecting myself and my child to stay away from them.

SpecialKO said:

Honestly, dude, I think you're better off. I don't mean to be a complete asshole, but if/when I have kids, I would not want them to play with someone else's kids who haven't been vaccinated.

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Why not? It's not like your kids will be at risk for polio or mumps. Don't be like that.

Mathias said:

Why not? It's not like your kids will be at risk for polio or mumps. Don't be like that.

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I think there would be plenty of reasons to avoid them that don't involve infectious disease.

Although not the kids, they shouldn't suffer just because their parents are morons.

If a parent is too fucked up not to give their child the proper care of 21st century medicine I wouldn't want to be involved with them neither. How many parents LOST their children when this medicine wasn't available in the past?

This is retarded.

Mathias said:

Why not? It's not like your kids will be at risk for polio or mumps. Don't be like that.

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Not all vaccines are 100% effective. Measles, for example. Why should I increase the risk to any child of mine for the sake of people who won't accept basic 20th century medical care?

I had the chicken pox vaccine when I was 2. Then I contracted chicken pox twice after that.

tell her to stop being such a stupid bitch

Agreed with Chippy, but less vitriol. It sucks that she apparently doesn't want to talk to you anymore, but dammit there's a REASON people are trained in medicine and aren't just sat in front of celebrity platitudes that eventually culminate in an MD. It's even more frustrating when I talk to people about an area I'm fairly knowledgeable in (I've spent the past six months or so steeping myself in all the Alzheimer's scientific literature I can find, for example) and they brush off over a century of scientific inquiry for reasons such as (and I quote a woman I was talking to on the bus), "It's impossible that our immune system would turn against us like that!"

I hope, though, the kid doesn't have any serious diseases growing up.

The reason so many anti vaccine rants work is that they a scaring parents.

So scare them back the other way.

http://www.abc.net.au/local/stories/2013/06/06/3776327.htm

"The mistake that we made was that we underestimated the diseases and we totally over-estimated the adverse reactions", says father Ian Williams, who is speaking publicly of his family's ordeal in an effort to warn other parents about the dangers of not immunising their children.

Minor cut, major infection
It started when seven-year-old Alijah got a small cut on the bottom of his foot in December 2012.
"Of course we didn't think it was too serious, it was just a little cut but a couple of days later he started getting symptoms like a stroke on the side of his face," Mr Williams says.
"A couple of days later during the night he started to get cramps across his face. His face would contort and he was in a lot of pain."
After 24 hours in Auckland's Starship Children's hospital, the doctors diagnosed Alijah with tetanus, and he was taken to intensive care.
Mr Williams recalls his son's agony, "It's a terrible thing... Your whole body arches, your arms go up in the air."
"It's like getting cramp but it's everywhere, across the face as well. They are so tight your jaw locks."
"The tetanus bacterium makes a toxin that attacks the nerves."
"It got so bad they put him in an induced coma just to put him out of his misery."
Ian and his wife were asked to leave the room as doctors cut a hole in Alijah's throat so a life support tube could be inserted, and Alijah was heavily sedated for the next three weeks to allow his body to heal.
"We felt terrible."
"He was in such pain due to us and our decision-making process so that's why we went to the papers in New Zealand - we just wanted to get our experience out there."
"It was very obvious we had made a mistake."

Deciding not to vaccinate
As well as Alijah, the Williams have a nine-year-old son and a two-year-old daughter, and Ian Williamson says they did their own research and decided not to vaccinate their children.
"My wife was very against it for her own reasons," he says.
"I have a science degree and my wife since then has got a science degree as a midwife. I was open to both ideas so I looked into it.
"If you google vaccines you get a lot of pros and a lot of cons, and you start to read all the cons and they start to weigh on you and you start to believe all the things that are said.
"It looks like a fifty-fifty argument."
Williams says that he was influenced by stories he read on the internet that the MMR (Measles, mumps and rubella) vaccine was linked to children developing autism; that they contain mercury and aluminium and that vaccines are promoted by drug companies purely for profit.
"There are a number of myths out there, and it's really easy to get sucked in."
"As soon as they said it was tetanus my other two kids were vaccinated the very next day, against all childhood diseases."

Speaking out
The Williams' also took the unusual step of going public about what had happened to Alijah.
Ian Williams says he wants to help other parents who he thinks may be as overwhelmed as he was by the conflicting information about vaccines that is published online.
"No one wants to hurt their kids; we didn't want to hurt our kid of course.
"The main research that you should do as a parent when you're looking at vaccination, the easiest and the clearest thing you could do would be to survey doctors and ask them if they are pro or anti vaccines.
"What you will find is that almost all of them are. Then ask yourself the question, why is that?
"Once you see one of these diseases, they are terrible. Children die from these diseases."
"The mistake that we made was that we underestimated the diseases and we totally over-estimated the adverse reactions [to vaccines]"

Huge response
Despite the often highly-charged and polarised debate around childhood immunisations, Ian Williams says he's been happy to speak out and that the response to Alijah's story has been very positive.
"We've had a very big reaction in New Zealand. Alijah was on the front page of two of our biggest papers and doctors have been putting up his picture in their rooms and say families have been coming in and getting their kids vaccinated.
"There has actually been a small percentage increase in New Zealand's vaccination rates [since the story was published in January].
"That's why we did it. I'm happy to be the poster boy for vaccination."
Six months on, Alijah is recovering well.
"After three weeks in intensive care he gradually came out of it," Williams says.
"They gave him less and less drugs and his nerves started to heal."
When he came out of his heavy sedation, Alijah had to learn to walk and eat again.
"He's fine now and all you can see now is some scarring on his throat from the tracheotomy, he'll probably have that his whole life.
"It's a small price to pay. Ten per cent of all people with tetanus die."

What is tetanus?
Tetanus is caused by bacteria which are present in soils, dust and manure. The bacteria can enter the body through a wound which may be as small as a pin prick. Tetanus cannot be passed from person to person.
Tetanus is a potentially fatal disease which attacks the nervous system. It causes muscle spasms first felt in the neck and jaw muscles. Tetanus can lead to breathing difficulties, painful convulsions and abnormal heart rhythms.
Because of the effective immunisation, tetanus is now rare in Australia, but it still occurs in adults who have never been immunised against the disease or who have not had their booster vaccines.
Tetanus vaccines are offered to free infants at 2, 4 and 6 months of age, and again at age 4 years of age and in year 8 of secondary school.
Source: WA Health Department

Excellent way to put it.

Did Stienman go back in time to 2011 or something?

Espy said:

Did Stienman go back in time to 2011 or something?

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The forum was running slow, it just took that long for the post to show up.