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http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/health/article6954603.ece

Very, very interesting:

Fructose, a sweetener derived from corn, can cause dangerous growths of fat cells around vital organs and is able to trigger the early stages of diabetes and heart disease.

...

Over 10 weeks, 16 volunteers on a strictly controlled diet, including high levels of fructose, produced new fat cells around their heart, liver and other digestive organs. They also showed signs of food-processing abnormalities linked to diabetes and heart disease. Another group of volunteers on the same diet, but with glucose sugar replacing fructose, did not have these problems.

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I've always assumed HFCS was simply a more concentrated form of sugar - no more or less dangerous that regular sugar, but this study shows it does act differently in the body, and may have effects that are worse than simple weight gain and it's attending problems.

I can only hope this will be a watershed study that leads to enough research to quantify the problem. Would be nice to see FDA action on this...

I want to see more research on it before I am going to bother going all crazy

Why are Americans fatter than the rest of the world? We use HFCS in everything instead of sugar. Ta DA!

I thought it was because you eat massive portions of everything. Christ, I can't even see the plate when I eat out an American.

I think the relatively sedentary lifestyles may also contribute.

Gruebeard said:

when I eat out an American.

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I do hope this was intentional.

*cough*

yeah, um . . . okay yes. Intentional. Not freudian. Not at all. aranoid:

stienman said:

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/health/article6954603.ece

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I find it strange that these studies were published back in April, yet just now I'm hearing about it on NPR and various online news outlets. You would think health reporters would have been all over this when it came out.

I, for one, avoid HFCS for a variety of reasons. The health benefits vs. sugar I've suspected, though even now the evidence isn't a home run. But usually if something has HFCS in it, that means it's otherwise processed to all bejesus, which tends to make it less healthy. I don't put sugar in my marinara sauce when I make it from scratch, so why would I want it in there when I buy it? Another reason why it's in everything (or the shitty versions of them, at least) is the power of the corn lobby, so not buying that crap is my way of sticking it to the man.

Gruebeard said:

I thought it was because you eat massive portions of everything. Christ, I can't even see the plate when I eat out an American.

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Yep. People judge a restaurant by how much they're getting, not how good it is. For many people, lots of mediocre > less of something really good. That's why there are some people I just hate going out to eat with. All they do is complain about portions, even when the food tastes better and is probably healthier. People think that more food means value, but down the line all those cheap meals could cause expensive (or at the very least, inconvenient) health problems.

I've been hearing this kind of thing about HFCS for a while. I don't avoid it completely, because it's in everything--even most breads I can afford, as a preservative. But I don't like the way it makes things taste, especially soda. My fear is that this will cause a huge move to putting plain sugar in everything, and that will make fat people everywhere say, "Sugar is safe, we can eat as much as we want!"

Cajungal;322217][QUOTE=Gruebeard said:

I thought it was because you eat massive portions of everything. Christ, I can't even see the plate when I eat out an American.

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Yep. People judge a restaurant by how much they're getting, not how good it is. For many people, lots of mediocre > less of something really good. That's why there are some people I just hate going out to eat with. All they do is complain about portions, even when the food tastes better and is probably healthier. People think that more food means value, but down the line all those cheap meals could cause expensive (or at the very least, inconvenient) health problems.[/QUOTE]

I had the most embarrassing experience several years ago going out to eat with a guy once to the Melting Pot. It's a fondue place, if they don't have them around your area. You get an appetizer of breads, veggies and fruits with a cheese fondue, then you get the main course, which is probably 8-12 ounces of a variety of meats (chicken, shrimp, steak, etc), and then a dessert fondue with marshmallows, angel food cake, bananas brownies, etc. I usually leave the place stuffed to the gills if I get the dessert. This is an upscale place, and dinner for 2 on Valentine's day usually runs about $150 with wine.

So, I took this guy (a friend of my girlfriend at the time) and his wife and my girlfriend once, back when I was particularly flush with cash. The whole time, the guy i was with was loudly bitching about how little food he got, and finally got the waiter to comp him some more free food. I was so embarrassed. I never took him anywhere to eat again.

One reason HFCS may contribute to overconsumption (particularly in soft drinks) is that it bypasses certain processes in digestion. Like, regular sugar triggers chemical messengers in your system and helps let you know that you've had some. HFCS just goes through, loading the calories but not contributing to the sense of being satisfied. Since you don't feel satisfied, you eat more, meaning you eat too much, and that's how we get fat.

Soda is especially bad because it's easy to drink a lot of it in a short amount of time, and mentally you don't think of the amount of calories you consume while drinking. It never seems like much, but it is.

Tin, that sounds like a couple I know. Not only do they complain about the food, but if the server isn't completely bubbly and cheerful and extremely fast (no matter how busy the place might be). So, if they don't get a 5 lb. plate of food served by someone on both speed and ecstasy, something's very wrong and they're never eating there again (until next week).

Regarding the whole 'Americans eat a lot' don't forget that we tend to be larger, too. I'm 6'4'', and broad. When I was in Belgium (one of the taller European nations), I still was a half a head or more taller than almost everyone in the crowd. I'm not fat, but I need a lot of food to keep from feeling hungry. When I'm in the dining hall with friends at dinner, it's not unusual for me to eat three times as much as my European-height, scrawny buddies. When I go to a restaurant, if I leave there feeling hungry, I think it's understandable for me to feel pissed. I should not have to shell out $20 for a meal and then go home and have to eat a PB&J an hour later. Even if the food is high quality, that's no excuse.

Does metabolism really have that much to do with nationality/ethnicity? That's not smartass; I really want to know.

I don't know, but size sure does –*and we Americans breed 'em big. A bigger body simply needs more calories to keep going.

Heh, getting enough calories to keep going is pretty easy. I don't know how the scale goes by size, but it's actually quite hard for me to not reach the needed level of calories without doing some serious dieting.

Perhaps I should specify that by 'keep going' I don't mean 'avoid starvation' but rather 'go about my life in a normal fashion while exercising without feeling hungry all the time.'

Wikipedia says the average height for males in their twenties is higher in Belgium, and even in Spain than in the US...

Also, even if you were taller in the US, the restaurants would carry a bit more food in general, compensating for this. I think the complaining and whatnot may be more of a cultural thing... Mind you, I have BIG friends who eat a lot, and I've never heard them complain about not getting enough food at a restaurant.

EDIT: Forgot linky! http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_height

Aaaand... I was thinking right now that, even if you are bigger not only in height but in build... How do you know your bigger average build isn't due to your eating behaviours?

Well no shit, a high fructose diet isn't good for you. Especially if you lack GLUT5 and other transporters that help to metabolize it. There have been tons of studies suggesting that large intakes of fructose can lead to shit like insulin resistance, obesity etc. I've always been a proponent of the hypothesis that the reason America has an obesity problem is because we pump EVERYTHING full of corn syrup. Oh and before any of you fatties from overseas brag about how awesome your sucrose is, just remember that common sugar breaks down into a ring of glucose and fructose, so sugar in general is not a good thing for you to pig out on.

Seraphyn said:

Heh, getting enough calories to keep going is pretty easy. I don't know how the scale goes by size, but it's actually quite hard for me to not reach the needed level of calories without doing some serious dieting.

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About 2000-3000 per day for a male, about 1500-2500 for female. No it's really flipping easy to reach this, especially if a person drinks soft drinks, juice, milk instead of water.

Cajungal said:

Does metabolism really have that much to do with nationality/ethnicity? That's not smartass; I really want to know.

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It has a lot to do with diet and culture. Certain cultural regions are more prone to obesity than others. Genetics also play a role, but in the case of the U.S. it's really just a lot of lazy fucks who don't want to run.

tegid said:

Wikipedia says the average height for males in their twenties is higher in Belgium, and even in Spain than in the US...

Also, even if you were taller in the US, the restaurants would carry a bit more food in general, compensating for this. I think the complaining and whatnot may be more of a cultural thing... Mind you, I have BIG friends who eat a lot, and I've never heard them complain about not getting enough food at a restaurant.

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I feel special.

Tinwhistler;322232][QUOTE=Cajungal;322217][QUOTE=Gruebeard said:

I thought it was because you eat massive portions of everything. Christ, I can't even see the plate when I eat out an American.

Click to expand...

Yep. People judge a restaurant by how much they're getting, not how good it is. For many people, lots of mediocre > less of something really good. That's why there are some people I just hate going out to eat with. All they do is complain about portions, even when the food tastes better and is probably healthier. People think that more food means value, but down the line all those cheap meals could cause expensive (or at the very least, inconvenient) health problems.[/QUOTE]

I had the most embarrassing experience several years ago going out to eat with a guy once to the Melting Pot. It's a fondue place, if they don't have them around your area. You get an appetizer of breads, veggies and fruits with a cheese fondue, then you get the main course, which is probably 8-12 ounces of a variety of meats (chicken, shrimp, steak, etc), and then a dessert fondue with marshmallows, angel food cake, bananas brownies, etc. I usually leave the place stuffed to the gills if I get the dessert. This is an upscale place, and dinner for 2 on Valentine's day usually runs about $150 with wine.

So, I took this guy (a friend of my girlfriend at the time) and his wife and my girlfriend once, back when I was particularly flush with cash. The whole time, the guy i was with was loudly bitching about how little food he got, and finally got the waiter to comp him some more free food. I was so embarrassed. I never took him anywhere to eat again.[/QUOTE]

The melting pot in San Diego?
Been there...definitely not 8-12 of meat. Last time I went there it was no more than 5-6.

Chazwozel;322305][QUOTE=Cajungal said:

Does metabolism really have that much to do with nationality/ethnicity? That's not smartass; I really want to know.

Click to expand...

It has a lot to do with diet and culture. Certain cultural regions are more prone to obesity than others. Genetics also play a role, but in the case of the U.S. it's really just a lot of lazy fucks who don't want to run.[/QUOTE]

I once wrong a diet manual. I actually printed it myself and sold 50 or so copies.

It was a hardback cover and was 15 pages. The first 14 were all legalese jargon and things like that making it so I couldn't get sued.

Then there was a chapter page. The whole book from there went like this:

Chapter 1: The Foolproof Diet Plan

(Page 1)

Get off your ass & shut your Pie Hole.

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The end.

:clap: Truly you are a genius.

tegid said:

Wikipedia says the average height for males in their twenties is higher in Belgium, and even in Spain than in the US...

Also, even if you were taller in the US, the restaurants would carry a bit more food in general, compensating for this. I think the complaining and whatnot may be more of a cultural thing... Mind you, I have BIG friends who eat a lot, and I've never heard them complain about not getting enough food at a restaurant.

EDIT: Forgot linky! http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_height

Aaaand... I was thinking right now that, even if you are bigger not only in height but in build... How do you know your bigger average build isn't due to your eating behaviours?

Click to expand...

Almost every country with an average height of 5'10 or above was self reported, not measured. Everyone always thinks they're slightly taller than they really are until they are properly measured. At least that's what I find during the course of my job (I measure a fuckload of people's heights.)

Here we have good old sugar cane syrup in our Coke, so we just go blind/die/live in misery due to diabetes instead.

Although I do wish our miserable burger sizes at McDonalds/Burger King would one day be as big as the ones there, as I can stuff an entire Big Mac in my mouth.

Dave said:

I once wrong a diet manual.

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Was that intentional?

I'm gonna go eat out a European, now. They're apparently healthier . . . although Cajun's probably quite tasty.

JCM said:

Although I do wish our miserable burger sizes at McDonalds/Burger King would one day be as big as the ones there, as I can stuff an entire Big Mac in my mouth.

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I someday hope that the burger I get in my bag will match the burger up in the picture. Crazy, I know.

--Patrick

Gruebeard;322431][QUOTE=Dave said:

I once wrong a diet manual.

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Was that intentional?

I'm gonna go eat out a European, now. They're apparently healthier . . . although Cajun's probably quite tasty.[/QUOTE]

May be too hot for ya, Grue.

also, Pat, ya know they Vaseline those burgers to make em shiny.

Well, my point still stands, since average height for males 21-29 is about the same in France as in the US, and it's measured! The same with 21 year old Spaniards, they seem to be quite tall

JCM said:

Here we have good old sugar cane syrup in our Coke, so we just go blind/die/live in misery due to diabetes instead.

Although I do wish our miserable burger sizes at McDonalds/Burger King would one day be as big as the ones there, as I can stuff an entire Big Mac in my mouth.

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You're doing it wrong.

View attachment 185

Chazwozel;322509][QUOTE=JCM said:

Here we have good old sugar cane syrup in our Coke, so we just go blind/die/live in misery due to diabetes instead.

Although I do wish our miserable burger sizes at McDonalds/Burger King would one day be as big as the ones there, as I can stuff an entire Big Mac in my mouth.

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You're doing it wrong.

View attachment 185[/QUOTE]

:noidea:

I'm going to blame Canada's 5'8" average male height on the insane amount of Asian immigrants flooding into the country every day. Damn you shorties!

Cajungal said:

also, Pat, ya know they Vaseline those burgers to make em shiny.

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Yeah. I considered a career as a food stylist for a while but really wasn't sure how to break into the biz.

--Patrick

I've pretty much always heard that HFCS is bad for you, but it's almost impossible to avoid. It's in everything so... meh, I do what I can and we try to avoid it when it's possible.

Espy said:

I've pretty much always heard that HFCS is bad for you, but it's almost impossible to avoid. It's in everything so... meh, I do what I can and we try to avoid it when it's possible.

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Sugar is bad for you. Period. For anyone looking to lose some weight, try going on a diabetics diet. You'll drop like 30 lbs in two months.