Search forums

Forums

Export thread

How to Ruin the NFL.

Sep 8, 2009#1

Dave

1) Have the players start to get greedy as fuck. Have them threaten to strike if they still work under salary caps. You know, those things that make it so that all markets are competitive? The reason why the NFL continues to grow as a sport while baseball has been getting more and more fractured while the small markets have no chance at all to compete while the New Yorks pay a shit-ton of money and buy their way to championships.

1a) Have the owners get greedy as fuck. Gotta have the biggest stadiums and the best venues, then charge so much that nobody but their rich friends can see a game live. $10 beers and $5 sodas? Yeah, that's great. I can't afford it, but I'm sure some business buddies can when their sponsor pays for a junket. Who gives a shit about the every day fan when you can make so much more cash from kissing the ass of the rich and elite?

2) Have the rules committee make sure nobody's feelings get hurt and take all the fun out of the game. Remember when the Falcons used to dance in the endzone? Or when the team scoring would all get together, jump in a massive high-5 and then all fall to the ground? In a bid to stop people from taunting the NFL took all the fun out of celebrations. This is ENTERTAINMENT! Why not let them entertain?

3) Make rules that take hitting out of the game. If you tackle someone hard any more you get fined. The other night I watched a game where a guy hit a wide receiver really, really hard...with his shoulder. He was flagged 15 yards. In another game the QB was sacked. The linebacker was flagged 15 yards for driving him into the ground.

4) Pass Interference rules are broken. Defensive backs can't touch wide receivers after 5 yards. So QBs will underthrow the ball so that the WR has to come back to it , which draws contact. I'm looking for statistics on the number of PI calls every year but I'm drawing a blank on that. In addition, you can run up to the QB after the pass is well away, spear him in the back as hard as you can and take him out of the game. The penalty? 15 yards and probably a fine of $20,000 from your million dollar salary. But bump a guy on a bomb pass and you could be hit with a 40+ yard penalty - even if the WR initiated the contact. WTF?!? The NFL needs to fix that shit.

5) Keep trying to shove American football down the throats of the world. Okay, this one gets my ire up every time. The rest of the world doesn't give a shit about our brand of football. They probably never will. NFL Europe was a dismal failure. So then today I read this. Goodell, what the hell? They care about as much about our football as we do about theirs. Soccer and cricket are cool sports but they will never be big in the United States...and our football will never be big there. Give it up.

I love my NFL and think they've done more right than any other sport to promote themselves and keep the smaller markets involved. But they are working hard to fuck it up and I hope they pull their heads out of their asses before it's too late.

Sep 8, 2009#2

The Lovely Boehner

The only reason the NFL is more popular than College Football is the lack of a playoff system in the latter.

Sep 8, 2009#3

Dave

Charlie Dont Surf said:
The only reason the NFL is more popular than College Football is the lack of a playoff system in the latter.

I would agree with this about 95%. The other 5% is me thinking that I'd still rather watch NFL than college. I know it's the same game but it's just better football.

Sep 8, 2009#4

Shannow

Charlie Dont Surf said:
The only reason the NFL is more popular than College Football is the lack of a playoff system in the latter.

Well, that and the disparity in teams isnt quite as prevalent as it is in college.

Sep 8, 2009#5

Kitty Sinatra

More than anything, what's ruining the game for me is the apparent 2 minute play clock that drags the game on 4 hours.

Sep 8, 2009#6

The Lovely Boehner

How to Ruin the NFL

1) Free Agency
2) Letting teams move
3) The Forward Pass

Sep 8, 2009#7

Dave

Charlie Dont Surf said:
How to Ruin the NFL

1) Free Agency
2) Letting teams move
3) The Forward Pass

Thank you 1880's Charlie.

Sep 8, 2009#8

The Lovely Boehner

Well, what I'm getting at is that people have thought changes would ruin football a bunch of times before, and the league managed to right itself.

Sep 8, 2009#9

Dave

Charlie Dont Surf said:
Well, what I'm getting at is that people have thought changes would ruin football a bunch of times before, and the league managed to right itself.

While I would normally agree with you that there have been changes in the past that did not have the negative effect that was predicted, I can see the changes that are happening having a long-lasting detrimental effect on the sport itself.

Maybe I'm wrong, but I've seen what these types of moves in other sports has brought about. Most of these that are not specific to the NFl directly have been tried by other sports and met with dismal failure.

Sep 8, 2009#10

Shannow

personally, i still have a very enjoyable time watching the NFL, and will continue to do so every season. GIANTS!!!

Sep 8, 2009#11

General Specific

I agree that we need a return to smashmouth football. Take the best teams of the old days and put them up against any team today and the old guys would lose because they'd get penalized to death.

Also, the sudden death overtime needs to be fixed. Games should not be decided on who gets lucky on a coin toss. My idea for that is each team gets a possession. Coin toss determines who gets it first and who defends. If the offense scores or is stopped on a fourth down, then the other team gets a kickoff. Game goes until one team is stopped and the other scores. If there is an int or fumble that's returned for a touchdown, the game ends.

Sep 8, 2009#12

Covar

Lack of Salary caps won't hurt the NFL. The vast majority of the money made by teams comes from the tv deals that the NFL negotiate as a whole, each team makes an equal share from it.

on number 2: endzone dances are the most retarded thing in the world. I want to watch athletes play football, not execute some choreographed dance routine. Players that did that just looked like douchebags. Only way a football player looked douchier was when a Linebacker did a celebration for making an ordinary tackle. Good Job asshole you did what you were supposed to do.

---------- Post added at 01:46 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:45 PM ----------

Shannow said:
personally, i still have a very enjoyable time watching the NFL, and will continue to do so every season. GIANTS!!!

Looking forward to the GGGGEEEE-MEN take on the Redskins Sunday.

Sep 8, 2009#13

sixpackshaker

NFL is still a large part of my fall ritual. I can normally catch one game a year, if I can afford it then.

What can hurt the NFL is all the major construction that has happened in the last 10 or so years. Ranging from 500 mill to a cool billion each, these monuments of excess can lead to financial troubles for these teams. Now that real estate is worth less and the economy is in the tank, franchises may have a hard time paying these things off.

Sep 8, 2009#14

Dave

sixpackshaker said:
NFL is still a large part of my fall ritual. I can normally catch one game a year, if I can afford it then.

What can hurt the NFL is all the major construction that has happened in the last 10 or so years. Ranging from 500 mill to a cool billion each, these monuments of excess can lead to financial troubles for these teams. Now that real estate is worth less and the economy is in the tank, franchises may have a hard time paying these things off.

Franchises don't pay these off. It's usually the communities surrounding them that do. The franchises get tax breaks.

And as to Covar's points, if it weren't for the salary cap you'd have the same issues as baseball does right now. The collective bargaining agreement and revenue sharing on top of the caps keeps the NFL competitive.

And when your WR makes a great play and then makes a first down hand signal, doesn't that help fire you up? Same with the defensive guys. I think the NFL used to be more fun that it is now.

Sep 8, 2009#15

crono1224

Dave;250386][quote=Charlie Dont Surf said:
How to Ruin the NFL

1) Free Agency
2) Letting teams move
3) The Forward Pass

Thank you 1880's Charlie.[/QUOTE]

Would that require leather helmets and no blacks?

Seriously though last time yankees won was 2000, and of the last teams I don't see too many huge spenders. Though I do think a limit is generally a good idea.

Also celebrations are a bit of a goofy subject some are just excessive and then you gotta apply a subjective deffinition. I always liked Barry Sanders and he never celebrated.

Sep 8, 2009#16

The Lovely Boehner

Yes, love those pristine World Series championships by the small market known as the Boston Red Sox.

Sep 8, 2009#17

crono1224

Charlie Dont Surf said:
Yes, love those pristine World Series championships by the small market known as the Boston Red Sox.

Sep 8, 2009#18

General Specific

As far as putting a team in London, why don't we get a new team into Los Angeles first? Then, maybe look at Mexico City or Toronto for other options. Canada's already got the CFL and it seems to do fairly well and Mexico hosted a game a few years back that had a great turnout.

London is just too far and, as Dave stated, doesn't have the interest to really support a team full-time.

Sep 8, 2009#19

Shannow

so 3 teams, out of those 10, hold over half of the victories.

Sep 8, 2009#20

Kitty Sinatra

General Specific said:
As far as putting a team in London, why don't we get a new team into Los Angeles first? Then, maybe look at Mexico City or Toronto for other options. Canada's already got the CFL and it seems to do fairly well and Mexico hosted a game a few years back that had a great turnout.

London is just too far and, as Dave stated, doesn't have the interest to really support a team full-time.

Toronto's already got a team. The Bills. We'd like a different team, please.

Sep 8, 2009#21

Chazwozel

Dave said:
1) Have the players start to get greedy as fuck. Have them threaten to strike if they still work under salary caps. You know, those things that make it so that all markets are competitive? The reason why the NFL continues to grow as a sport while baseball has been getting more and more fractured while the small markets have no chance at all to compete while the New Yorks pay a shit-ton of money and buy their way to championships.

1a) Have the owners get greedy as fuck. Gotta have the biggest stadiums and the best venues, then charge so much that nobody but their rich friends can see a game live. $10 beers and $5 sodas? Yeah, that's great. I can't afford it, but I'm sure some business buddies can when their sponsor pays for a junket. Who gives a shit about the every day fan when you can make so much more cash from kissing the ass of the rich and elite?

2) Have the rules committee make sure nobody's feelings get hurt and take all the fun out of the game. Remember when the Falcons used to dance in the endzone? Or when the team scoring would all get together, jump in a massive high-5 and then all fall to the ground? In a bid to stop people from taunting the NFL took all the fun out of celebrations. This is ENTERTAINMENT! Why not let them entertain?

3) Make rules that take hitting out of the game. If you tackle someone hard any more you get fined. The other night I watched a game where a guy hit a wide receiver really, really hard...with his shoulder. He was flagged 15 yards. In another game the QB was sacked. The linebacker was flagged 15 yards for driving him into the ground.

4) Pass Interference rules are broken. Defensive backs can't touch wide receivers after 5 yards. So QBs will underthrow the ball so that the WR has to come back to it , which draws contact. I'm looking for statistics on the number of PI calls every year but I'm drawing a blank on that. In addition, you can run up to the QB after the pass is well away, spear him in the back as hard as you can and take him out of the game. The penalty? 15 yards and probably a fine of $20,000 from your million dollar salary. But bump a guy on a bomb pass and you could be hit with a 40+ yard penalty - even if the WR initiated the contact. WTF?!? The NFL needs to fix that shit.

5) Keep trying to shove American football down the throats of the world. Okay, this one gets my ire up every time. The rest of the world doesn't give a shit about our brand of football. They probably never will. NFL Europe was a dismal failure. So then today I read this. Goodell, what the hell? They care about as much about our football as we do about theirs. Soccer and cricket are cool sports but they will never be big in the United States...and our football will never be big there. Give it up.

I love my NFL and think they've done more right than any other sport to promote themselves and keep the smaller markets involved. But they are working hard to fuck it up and I hope they pull their heads out of their asses before it's too late.

I hope they strike, I really do. The NHL players that went on strike in 2005 learned quite quickly how much getting a real job sucks and settled for "measly" $500,000 to 1 mil paychecks. Heaven forbid professional athletes get paid less. I still think it's ridiculous what some Yankees players pull.

Sep 8, 2009#22

Covar

A salary cap would do no good in Baseball, would result in to much money going into the hands of the owners to satisfy the players. And what level do you set the salary cap? We all know the Red Sox are in favor of one. Set right at their current spending level of course, which would only result in screwing over the Yankees. If anything baseball needs higher revenue sharing.

Dave said:
And when your WR makes a great play and then makes a first down hand signal, doesn't that help fire you up? Same with the defensive guys. I think the NFL used to be more fun that it is now.

No. A WR making a great play and getting the first down fires me up. making the first down signal would be like the fullback fist-pumping the air because he made a 3 yard carry.

Sep 8, 2009#23

Chazwozel

crono1224;250464][quote=Charlie Dont Surf said:
Yes, love those pristine World Series championships by the small market known as the Boston Red Sox.

In say last 15 years lets record: Yankees (4)(Nothing since 2000), Marlins(2), Red Sox(2), White Sox, Cardinals, Diamondbacks, Phillies, Braves, Angels, Blue Jays.

So outside the 6 from Yankees, and Red Sox, and maybe White Sox. You have between 8-9 years of mid to lower level teams winning.[/QUOTE]

The Yankees are proof that you can buy the best players, but you can't buy team chemistry.

---------- Post added at 02:27 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:25 PM ----------

Charlie Dont Surf said:
Yes, love those pristine World Series championships by the small market known as the Boston Red Sox.

I wouldn't mind Boston so much if their fans weren't the biggest ****s in the United States.

Sep 8, 2009#24

Shannow

Chazwozel said:
Charlie Dont Surf said:

Yes, love those pristine World Series championships by the small market known as the Boston Red Sox.

Click to expand...

I wouldn't mind Boston so much if their fans weren't the biggest ****s in the United States.

Eagles fans are the worst pieces of trash in existance.

Sep 8, 2009#25

Covar

Fortunately Girardi seems to have realized the need for chemistry this year.

I'm bias'd but I think fans of all NY's rival teams are huge cockheads.

Sep 8, 2009#26

crono1224

Shannow said:
so 3 teams, out of those 10, hold over half of the victories.

As to the other sports where there are plenty of dynasty or teams that dominate, the Patriots, the Red Wings, Lakers, Spurs. Just saying....

Sep 8, 2009#27

sixpackshaker

On the excessive celebrations, it is called 'professional' sports. If the owners of the teams do not want you acting like an asshat playing on some school-yard... then don't.

Sep 8, 2009#28

Chazwozel

Shannow;250483][quote=Chazwozel said:
Charlie Dont Surf said:

Yes, love those pristine World Series championships by the small market known as the Boston Red Sox.

Click to expand...

I wouldn't mind Boston so much if their fans weren't the biggest ****s in the United States.

Eagles fans are the worst pieces of trash in existance.[/QUOTE]

Don't forget the Flyers/ Phillies trash that falls in the dirtwad lump of Philthadelphia sports!

Flyers fans are ranked #1 in rudest and most obnoxious fans in the NHL.

---------- Post added at 03:02 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:01 PM ----------

sixpackshaker said:
On the excessive celebrations, it is called 'professional' sports. If the owners of the teams do not want you acting like an asshat playing on some school-yard... then don't.

I've always been a fan of the Emmett Smith philosophy. When you score a touchdown, act like you've been there before and just hand the ball to the ref.

Sep 8, 2009#29

Shannow

Chazwozel said:
sixpackshaker said:

On the excessive celebrations, it is called 'professional' sports. If the owners of the teams do not want you acting like an asshat playing on some school-yard... then don't.

Click to expand...

I've always been a fan of the Emmett Smith philosophy. When you score a touchdown, act like you've been there before and just hand the ball to the ref.

100% agreed.

Sep 8, 2009#30

Dave

crono1224;250492][quote=Shannow said:
so 3 teams, out of those 10, hold over half of the victories.

As to the other sports where there are plenty of dynasty or teams that dominate, the Patriots, the Red Wings, Lakers, Spurs. Just saying....[/QUOTE]

I can't speak very well towards the NHL or the NBA because I just don't follow them. So let's look at the NFL and MLB to compare. In MLB, the market size has a direct correlation on how many games the teams win. In the NFL it's not the same way. The last 5 Superbowl winners have been New England, Pittsburgh, Indianapolis, New York and Tampa Bay (last five teams, not last 5 games). These are hardly the high market powerhouses. In fact, the NFL is best known for runs such as the Cowboys in the 1990s and New England in the early 2000s. They are this way because they set up for big players and the cap means that they must take money from somewhere. These other "somewhere" positions get vacated through free agency as the players on the championship teams get picked up on other teams. So while a team can ride a player or two for a while it's very likely that the "best" teams will be going down in power after a championship win.

In fact, in the NFL, each year fully half of the previous year's playoff teams do not make the post season. It's usually 6-8 of the previous 12 teams that do NOT make it. In baseball, there are 6 teams who have not made the playoffs in 10+ years - 2 have not been in the playoffs for over 20 years. In the NFL the longest dry spell belongs to both the Bills and Lions at 9 seasons each.

Why is this? Revenue sharing and the salary caps have made it a much more competitive league and have brought parity to the system. Every year there's that dark horse who does well despite the odds. Last year it was Atlantic and Miami. The year before it was New Orleans.

The NFL does it right but is in danger of screwing it all up.

Sep 8, 2009#31

Kitty Sinatra

Dave said:
In the NFL the longest dry spell belongs to both the Bills and Lions at 9 seasons each.

It's their proximity to Toronto that brings them down so poorly.

Smurfing Maple Leafs.

Sep 8, 2009#32

Rob King

Chazwozel said:
I hope they strike, I really do. The NHL players that went on strike in 2005 learned quite quickly how much getting a real job sucks and settled for "measly" $500,000 to 1 mil paychecks. Heaven forbid professional athletes get paid less. I still think it's ridiculous what some Yankees players pull.

I vaguely recall during the NHL strike a few years back, seeing an interview with one of the hockey players. He justified the strike by saying something along the lines of "I have to provide for my family."

This, from a man who could probably afford to buy fly his groceries from Mongolia.

---------- Post added at 05:11 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:10 PM ----------

Gruebeard;250523][quote=Dave said:
In the NFL the longest dry spell belongs to both the Bills and Lions at 9 seasons each.

It's their proximity to Toronto that brings them down so poorly.

Smurfing Maple Leafs.[/QUOTE]

There really just is something about that city. Toronto FC sucks too.

Sep 8, 2009#33

Chazwozel

Rob King said:
This, from a man who could probably afford to buy fly his groceries from Mongolia.

I think T.O. also said something similar when he wasn't happy with his 7 or 9 mil / year contract with the Eagles...

With 9 mil a year I could support my entire extended family, with enough left over for a nice BMW.

Sep 8, 2009#34

Kitty Sinatra

Chazwozel said:
I think T.O. also said something similar when he wasn't happy with his 7 or 9 mil / year contract with the Eagles...

With 9 mil a year I could support my entire extended family, with enough left over for a nice BMW.

Yeah, but do you have a TV crew to feed and clothe, too?

Sep 8, 2009#35

Covar

The even sadder thing is most the people bitching about the high salaries of players would also bitch about the amount of money owners make, and if players made less, how they were exploiting the talents of the athletes.

Sep 8, 2009#36

Bonhomme Richard

Dave;250520][quote=crono1224;250492][quote=Shannow said:
so 3 teams, out of those 10, hold over half of the victories.

As to the other sports where there are plenty of dynasty or teams that dominate, the Patriots, the Red Wings, Lakers, Spurs. Just saying....[/quote]

I can't speak very well towards the NHL or the NBA because I just don't follow them. So let's look at the NFL and MLB to compare. In MLB, the market size has a direct correlation on how many games the teams win. In the NFL it's not the same way. The last 5 Superbowl winners have been New England, Pittsburgh, Indianapolis, New York and Tampa Bay (last five teams, not last 5 games). These are hardly the high market powerhouses. In fact, the NFL is best known for runs such as the Cowboys in the 1990s and New England in the early 2000s. They are this way because they set up for big players and the cap means that they must take money from somewhere. These other "somewhere" positions get vacated through free agency as the players on the championship teams get picked up on other teams. So while a team can ride a player or two for a while it's very likely that the "best" teams will be going down in power after a championship win.

In fact, in the NFL, each year fully half of the previous year's playoff teams do not make the post season. It's usually 6-8 of the previous 12 teams that do NOT make it. In baseball, there are 6 teams who have not made the playoffs in 10+ years - 2 have not been in the playoffs for over 20 years. In the NFL the longest dry spell belongs to both the Bills and Lions at 9 seasons each.

Why is this? Revenue sharing and the salary caps have made it a much more competitive league and have brought parity to the system. Every year there's that dark horse who does well despite the odds. Last year it was Atlantic and Miami. The year before it was New Orleans.

The NFL does it right but is in danger of screwing it all up.[/QUOTE]
You're completely wrong about the teams that haven't been in the playoffs for 10+ years. They just don't have the proper motivation:

Sep 8, 2009#37

crono1224

Shaq is rich, the guy who pays shaq is wealthy.

Sep 8, 2009#38

sixpackshaker

Covar said:
The even sadder thing is most the people bitching about the high salaries of players would also bitch about the amount of money owners make, and if players made less, how they were exploiting the talents of the athletes.

Don't worry, the owners make far more than any athlete on the field. Also it helps that they were rich when they buy into the franchises.

The points you made is the reason Houston lost the Oilers. Bud Adams was given the franchise in a poker game. Then he had the team playing in a HUGE stadium at UofH. Later he was allowed to move the Oilers into the "Astro's Dome." Then he started complaining that he was not making enough money off of this free franchise that he never had to build a stadium for. So the city upgraded the Astro Dome for tens of millions of dollars. With in 3 years he wanted the city to build him a new stadium. The voters told him go get lost. And he did. Go Tennessee Tits.

Finally a new billionaire payed $100,000,000 for the right to have a franchise, then $500,000,000 of his own and other private funds to build the stadium. And guess what? He is still making money off of one of the worse teams in the NFL.

Sep 8, 2009#39

klew

Point of clarification: what happened in the NHL in 2004-2005 (and 1994-1995) was a player lockout, not a player strike.

Sep 8, 2009#40

The Lovely Boehner

The way the world works is that if you can do something only a dozen people on earth can do (catch 1,000 yards and 10 TDs), you're gonna get paid like it. The top 20 lawyers on earth make a fuckload of money, the top 20 doctors make a fuckload of money, and the top 20 players of any sport make a fuckload of money.

Sep 8, 2009#41

crono1224

Charlie Dont Surf said:
The way the world works is that if you can do something only a dozen people on earth can do (catch 1,000 yards and 10 TDs), you're gonna get paid like it. The top 20 lawyers on earth make a fuckload of money, the top 20 doctors make a fuckload of money, and the top 20 players of any sport make a fuckload of money.

Sep 8, 2009#42

sixpackshaker

crono1224;250625][quote=Charlie Dont Surf said:
The way the world works is that if you can do something only a dozen people on earth can do (catch 1,000 yards and 10 TDs), you're gonna get paid like it. The top 20 lawyers on earth make a fuckload of money, the top 20 doctors make a fuckload of money, and the top 20 players of any sport make a fuckload of money.

Well ya but their faces are planted over everything. Also in the cases of some of these sports not everyone gets paid these vast amounts, it is very difficult to get into the high end, and even if you do a terrible injury can end it mighty fast, its a little better now with better medicine and what not but still.

And also how ever you want to view this, a lot may either have no college or limited college education, whether thats the players fault or the sport.[/QUOTE]

What does education matter when you can throw a 98 mph fastball or what ever maneuver that makes them special. A lot of these guys have a pretty good education, or were at least exposed to a top flight education.

I worked with a teacher that her son was starting for a powerhouse college football team. A student asked her if she would mind if her son dropped out of college to go to the NFL. She said that no, she did not mind. That signing bonus and first year's salary is guaranteed. If he breaks his leg playing college ball, there will be no money. And there is time enough to go back to school.

He finished College and has played consistently for at least 11 years in the NFL. It is not very easy to make $11,000,000 teaching high school/coaching football (I know.)

Sep 8, 2009#43

Twitch

Fixing the education budget of ASU.
1. Fire the football coach
2. ???
3. Profit!

Sep 8, 2009#44

Sparhawk

Chazwozel said:
I've always been a fan of the Emmett Smith philosophy. When you score a touchdown, act like you've been there before and just hand the ball to the ref.

But Emmett never gave the ball to officials, he kept them all, except for a couple that he gave to special (to him) people. But agree with the sentiment, he didn't excessively celebrate on average, there were a couple of times that he did, but they were big games.

Then there is that hit on Owens in the middle of Texas Stadium...

Sep 8, 2009#45

blotsfan

Gruebeard;250473][quote=General Specific said:
As far as putting a team in London, why don't we get a new team into Los Angeles first? Then, maybe look at Mexico City or Toronto for other options. Canada's already got the CFL and it seems to do fairly well and Mexico hosted a game a few years back that had a great turnout.

London is just too far and, as Dave stated, doesn't have the interest to really support a team full-time.

Toronto's already got a team. The Bills. We'd like a different team, please.[/QUOTE]
Here Here!
Anyways, as far as expensive, I laugh at Cowboys fans paying thousands of dollars a year (not to mention a 50k psl), when my equivalent seats at the Ralph go for 70 bucks each.

Sep 8, 2009#46

Qonas

Dave said:
2) Have the rules committee make sure nobody's feelings get hurt and take all the fun out of the game. Remember when the Falcons used to dance in the endzone? Or when the team scoring would all get together, jump in a massive high-5 and then all fall to the ground? In a bid to stop people from taunting the NFL took all the fun out of celebrations. This is ENTERTAINMENT! Why not let them entertain?

Agreed, but...

3) Make rules that take hitting out of the game. If you tackle someone hard any more you get fined. The other night I watched a game where a guy hit a wide receiver really, really hard...with his shoulder. He was flagged 15 yards. In another game the QB was sacked. The linebacker was flagged 15 yards for driving him into the ground.

This is mostly a quarterbacks issue now. They're just left out there wide-open, to take the full brunt of an Albert Haynesworth on a mission. Today's defensive linemen and linebackers are much bigger and at the same time faster than those before. It's simple evolution of the game. Yet, quarterbacks have remained largely the same. You look at the sheer lack of good quarterbacks (32 teams, and there sure as hell aren't 32 good quarterbacks), then the number of injuries to notable QBs, and THEN the ever-present problem with concussions. It's a safety thing that the NFL has to step in and regulate. Have they gotten it right yet? No. But dumb crap like "tackling the QB with full body weight" as a penalty will eventually lead to a correcting of the system that will allow QBs to keep on playing in a world of Mario Williamses.

5) Keep trying to shove American football down the throats of the world.

I'll start asking the NFL to stop doing this the second guys with highlighted hair, popped collars, and burnt skin stop trying to sell this country on soccer.

As for the small market/baseball thing, I live in Detroit. It's basically the poster city for "wannabe big market, actually small market" and I can tell you, we have no problem playing the no salary cap game. Fans out here LIKE the fact we've opened up the checkbook to get Miguel Cabrera locked up. The problem is, small markets have to be smart about it. They can't throw around huge money simply to sign a Nick Swisher or a Nate Robertson (oops). You have to be much more savvy with the money. If you play the cards right, you get a Cabrera. You play them wrong, you get a weighing-down anchor of a contract like Magglio Ordonez. It's a risk/reward, but that is currently how the game is played.

Listen, baseball is not going to thrive in a system where every team becomes functionally the same. There are too many teams in the major leagues for a salary cap to work and still keep up interest in the game. There are barely enough players to fill major league rosters as it is; you institute a salary cap, and those bench players on the Rockies and Pirates are cooling their heels back in the minors again. Not to mention the fact the baseball game itself will start to become more watered down and way more boring as the talent itself dilutes across all those teams. It would either necessitate a slim down in team numbers or the removal of the cap, otherwise interest in baseball would plummet. And what's going to hurt a small market more, not winning a championship or not even having a team?

Sep 8, 2009#47

Shannow

blotsfan;250655][quote=Gruebeard;250473][quote=General Specific said:
As far as putting a team in London, why don't we get a new team into Los Angeles first? Then, maybe look at Mexico City or Toronto for other options. Canada's already got the CFL and it seems to do fairly well and Mexico hosted a game a few years back that had a great turnout.

London is just too far and, as Dave stated, doesn't have the interest to really support a team full-time.

Toronto's already got a team. The Bills. We'd like a different team, please.[/quote]
Here Here!
Anyways, as far as expensive, I laugh at Cowboys fans paying thousands of dollars a year (not to mention a 50k psl), when my equivalent seats at the Ralph go for 70 bucks each.[/QUOTE]

True, but the difference is, they aren't going to watch the Bills.

Sep 8, 2009#48

SpecialKO

My only issue with salary caps in baseball is that the horse has well and truly left the barn on this one.

You institute them now and you'll find that big spender cities like New York will find tons of ways to "make our players feel more at home" than small market cities. They're going to have to, in order to keep the teams they want.

Sep 8, 2009#49

Twitch

Qonas said:
I'll start asking the NFL to stop doing this the second guys with highlighted hair, popped collars, and burnt skin stop trying to sell this country on soccer.

Wait, what?

Sep 8, 2009#50

Rob King

klew said:
Point of clarification: what happened in the NHL in 2004-2005 (and 1994-1995) was a player lockout, not a player strike.

I didn't realize. Goes to show you how much I care about hockey, hey?

---------- Post added at 09:38 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:33 PM ----------

Qonas said:
I'll start asking the NFL to stop doing this the second guys with highlighted hair, popped collars, and burnt skin stop trying to sell this country on soccer.

Sep 8, 2009#51

blotsfan

The famous example of what you're talking about, is Latrell Spreewell. When he was kinda old and washed up, the Timberwolves offered him a 3 year 21 million dollar deal, a fairly decent paycut, but still good money. However, his response was "I have to feed my family" so he refused it. He never got another offer over 1 year, 1 million after that, so he never played again, and he filed for bankruptcy about a year ago.

Sep 8, 2009#52

Qonas

Rob King;250678][quote=Qonas said:
I'll start asking the NFL to stop doing this the second guys with highlighted hair, popped collars, and burnt skin stop trying to sell this country on soccer.

The world pushing Soccer on America is like a bunch of kids saying "Hey, we've got this neat game that everyone in school plays. You should come play with us!"

America pushing American Football on the world is like the kid going "Nah, my game is way better. Why don't all 200 of you stop your game and play with me instead."[/QUOTE]

And both cases are people trying to force a game onto someone else, who has absolutely zero interest in said game. Just because more people play one over the other doesn't make the situation more palatable. Fair's fair; if Americans have to hear shit about (let me remove my nose from the air so I can look down at you) the beautiful game, then the rest of the world can hear all about Adrian Peterson's 150 yards rushing.

Sep 8, 2009#53

Dave

Dave said:
They care about as much about our football as we do about theirs. Soccer and cricket are cool sports but they will never be big in the United States...and our football will never be big there. Give it up.

From the original post.

Sep 8, 2009#54

Rob King

It is foolish, whichever sport is being pushed. I'll give you that. But I guess I just see the soccer zealots as more noble, somehow. As I alluded to, it seems more like people trying to be inclusive, as opposed to culturally domineering.

Sep 9, 2009#55

JCM

Make them stop taking steroids, then make take off their ballerina tights and foam armor and last a round in a rugby game.

I kid, I kid. Theyre two different games, and players from each who have switched played terribly.

Anyway, take this with a grain of salt, as I havent watched much american football, but two things I notice that could be done better-
1)Those silly bans, like the one prohibiting the throat slash taunt, need to go, we're talking about huge guys who can beat a normal guy like me up with a punch, not some girls in kindergarten.

2)Sell NFL to the right market. They had a marketing push here in Brazil, and it failed terribly. First, not every countries likes games with ridiculously huge scores (40s-100s), and while almost every country but US loves soccer, there are some countries ala Japan that have an easier acceptance of games like baseball and basketball.

Sep 9, 2009#56

Kitty Sinatra

There is no market for American Football outside of the US and Canada. The NFL is trying to create markets around the world. I guess Brazil didn't bite, and I don't think anyone else is either although that London game seemed to be a success.

Actually, even NFL Europe was probably a success. If they consider the whole thing a marketing campaign instead of a business enterprise, it was probably worth the money spent on it.

Sep 9, 2009#57

JCM

Gruebeard said:
There is no market for American Football outside of the US and Canada. The NFL is trying to create markets around the world. I guess Brazil didn't bite, and I don't think anyone else is either although that London game seemed to be a success.

Actually, even NFL Europe was probably a success. If they consider the whole thing a marketing campaign instead of a business enterprise, it was probably worth the money spent on it.

True... maybe they need a new name?

Its rather stupid to call something "football" when 99% of the world identifies it with another sport, and "american" football sounds as marketable and "British basketball" and "Japanese wrestling"

Sep 9, 2009#58

meyoumeyou

On the issue of the salary cap, without reform it is nearing becoming a bad thing for the NFL.

And even without it, things would most likely never degrade to the level of have's and have nots you see in the MLB, different games, different talent pools.

The salary cap at this point is raising to a point that small market teams would be hard pressed to have the money (real money, forget the cap here) to even push going over the cap. And then you have the minimum cap, which without change could become harmful to small market teams who are nowhere near as flush with cash as, say, the Redskins.

Even without a salary cap, a smaller market team could still be a championship team, if properly ran. It seems like in baseball, the have/have not effect comes so much from a limited talent pool for that sport. There simply isn't enough talent to go around.

As for the NFL, how often do you see major stars who were late draft picks, or undrafted alltogether. There is a lot of talent to be exploited for teams who know what they are doing evaluating it.

As for the major money teams, lets use the Redskins again. They've been loopholing their way through spending sprees for years and years now, the cap is a pretty minor hindrance to them already. If they aren't a perfect example of how simply having the money to blow in the NFL does not mean a Yankees-esque level of success, I don't know what is.

Personally, I'd take the cap staying around, but it needs some modification as is already. If it has to go I'm hardly worried about the NFL becoming the MLB though.

Disclaimer: opinions of a Raider fan, perhaps I'm looking at it as "nothing to lose" considering my team is screwed no matter what change happens or no.

Sep 9, 2009#59

Lally

Putting a team in London would be ridiculous. It would automatically put any team at a disadvantage that had to play them at home, and they would have a huge disadvantage whenever they had to play "away." I mean, look at Arizona last year when they just played a couple games in a row on the east coast! Could you imagine having to fly across the pond?

Sep 9, 2009#60

General Specific

I know your post was joking, JCM, but I've wanted to post this for a while now and have never had the chance, so forgive me.

JCM said:
then make take off their ballerina tights and foam armor and last a round in a rugby game.

Yes, why ever do they wear those pads?

Sep 9, 2009#61

DarkAudit

You forgot one, Dave...

Sue your fan base.

Guy buys season tickets. Team makes him sign a multi-year contract. A year or two later the economy tanks and guy is suddenly unemployed. Multi-billion dollar NFL franchise refuses to work with fan who now has no possible way to afford those tickets and sues instead.

Well excuse the fuck out of me, Mr. Snyder! I'm sorry I wasn't psychic enough to see that my office would shut down THREE YEARS after I paid you your fucking blood money.

Sep 9, 2009#62

Dave

DarkAudit said:
You forgot one, Dave...

Sue your fan base.

Guy buys season tickets. Team makes him sign a multi-year contract. A year or two later the economy tanks and guy is suddenly unemployed. Multi-billion dollar NFL franchise refuses to work with fan who now has no possible way to afford those tickets and sues instead.

Well excuse the fuck out of me, Mr. Snyder! I'm sorry I wasn't psychic enough to see that my office would shut down THREE YEARS after I paid you your fucking blood money.

See point 1a in the OP. Oi.

Sep 9, 2009#63

Chazwozel

General Specific said:
I know your post was joking, JCM, but I've wanted to post this for a while now and have never had the chance, so forgive me.

JCM said:

then make take off their ballerina tights and foam armor and last a round in a rugby game.

Click to expand...

Yes, why ever do they wear those pads?

I know he was joking too, but man football players would get f'd up without pads. I remember getting throttled in high school during practice and games. Pads may absorb the damage, but hits still hurt like a bitch.

In any sport that uses pads, they're there for a reason. Soccer would be a bitch without shinguards. Nothing compares to a puck shot to the head at 90mph though. That'll ring your bell. The worst stops I make are chest hits. Through all the padding they still hurt like a bitch.

In all honesty, people can gripe about soccer and football all day; eitherway both sports are probably the two most physically demanding things out there. Basketball, now there's a true pansy lame-ass sport... Stop touching me! Stop touching me! Foul! Even soccer dives can't rival the lameness of the NBA

Sep 9, 2009#64

sixpackshaker

I have a hard time watching an NBA game. The level of officiating is almost as good as Mid-South Wrestling's referees. I swear they make up the rules of basketball as they go along. I scream each time some one flops (especially the known floppers) and they get the calls. The worst part is how one sided the calls go. If you are a super-star, you can travel, hack, goal-tend and bump at will. If you are just some hoser off the bench, don't dream of laying a pinkie on that multimillionaire.

Sep 9, 2009#65

The Lovely Boehner

sixpackshaker said:
I have a hard time watching an NBA game. The level of officiating is almost as good as Mid-South Wrestling's referees. I swear they make up the rules of basketball as they go along. I scream each time some one flops (especially the known floppers) and they get the calls. The worst part is how one sided the calls go. If you are a super-star, you can travel, hack, goal-tend and bump at will. If you are just some hoser off the bench, don't dream of laying a pinkie on that multimillionaire.

Seriously. I saw the news about the NBA using scab refs this season as a happy accident.

Sep 9, 2009#66

DarkAudit

Dave;251213][quote=DarkAudit said:
You forgot one, Dave...

Sue your fan base.

Guy buys season tickets. Team makes him sign a multi-year contract. A year or two later the economy tanks and guy is suddenly unemployed. Multi-billion dollar NFL franchise refuses to work with fan who now has no possible way to afford those tickets and sues instead.

Well excuse the fuck out of me, Mr. Snyder! I'm sorry I wasn't psychic enough to see that my office would shut down THREE YEARS after I paid you your fucking blood money.

See point 1a in the OP. Oi.

[/QUOTE]

This takes greed to a whole new level. This is beyond holding ya hostage for $10 beer, now we'll ruin you *and* your family for decades to come!

Sep 9, 2009#67

Qonas

This attitude of the NFL's - not bending or compromising anything due to economic circumstances - is also going to be affecting television:

NFL Teams May Face TV Blackouts

Greed Reigns with NFL's Blackout Policy

The short of it is, at least 12 of the 32 NFL teams (possibly more) face having most of their home games blacked out on television because the games won't sell out. Since enough fans aren't able to or won't buy enough tickets, the game won't be shown on television. THAT rule is something that will hurt the NFL far more than the lack of a salary cap, which in fact won't hurt the league at all.

Sep 9, 2009#68

blotsfan

DarkAudit said:
You forgot one, Dave...

Sue your fan base.

Guy buys season tickets. Team makes him sign a multi-year contract. A year or two later the economy tanks and guy is suddenly unemployed. Multi-billion dollar NFL franchise refuses to work with fan who now has no possible way to afford those tickets and sues instead.

Well excuse the fuck out of me, Mr. Snyder! I'm sorry I wasn't psychic enough to see that my office would shut down THREE YEARS after I paid you your fucking blood money.

Then don't sign a multi-year deal for it. Snyder is in the right here. It may suck, but a contract is a contract.

Chazwozel said:
Nothing compares to a puck shot to the head at 90mph though. That'll ring your bell. The worst stops I make are chest hits. Through all the padding they still hurt like a bitch.

Few things in sports confound me more than the fact that goalies used to play without helmets. How did no one die?

Sep 9, 2009#69

SpecialKO

Chazwozel said:
I know he was joking too, but man football players would get f'd up without pads. I remember getting throttled in high school during practice and games. Pads may absorb the damage, but hits still hurt like a bitch.

A buddy of mine went to college in Leeds, in England.

He was on the rugby team and he and his teammates ripped on an American exchange student who played college football at home, making fun of him for wearing pads and daring him to try out.

So the American guy showed up for tryouts, played for a bit, got into the spirit of the game, and completely forgot that he wasn't wearing pads and went for a flying tackle on the carrier.

He broke his own collar bone, and 3 of his target's ribs.

They didn't give him any shit about pads after that.

Sep 9, 2009#70

ThatNickGuy

Two pages and not a single mention of Vince McMahon's XFL?

For SHAAAAME.

Sep 9, 2009#71

Sparhawk

ThatNickGuy said:
Two pages and not a single mention of Vince McMahon's XFL?

For SHAAAAME.

Huh? I'm sorry, that doesn't ring a bell at all.

Sep 9, 2009#72

The Lovely Boehner

The XFL ruined the XFL.

Sep 9, 2009#73

Papillon

blotsfan;251398][quote=DarkAudit said:
You forgot one, Dave...

Sue your fan base.

Guy buys season tickets. Team makes him sign a multi-year contract. A year or two later the economy tanks and guy is suddenly unemployed. Multi-billion dollar NFL franchise refuses to work with fan who now has no possible way to afford those tickets and sues instead.

Well excuse the fuck out of me, Mr. Snyder! I'm sorry I wasn't psychic enough to see that my office would shut down THREE YEARS after I paid you your fucking blood money.

Then don't sign a multi-year deal for it. Snyder is in the right here. It may suck, but a contract is a contract.[/QUOTE]

IANAL, but I believe in general on breach of a contract, the injured party (the team) is required to mitigate their loss to the extent reasonably possible, and is then is entitled only to the difference between the economic position they would have made if the contract hadn't been broken, and their real position.

So, the team is probably entitled to some money, but not as much as they are asking for.

And suing your fans is never good business sense.

Sep 10, 2009#74

Kitty Sinatra

ThatNickGuy said:
Two pages and not a single mention of Vince McMahon's XFL?

For SHAAAAME.

He Hate Me

Sep 10, 2009#75

Lally

blotsfan said:
Then don't sign a multi-year deal for it. Snyder is in the right here. It may suck, but a contract is a contract.

It hurts me, HURTS me, you have no idea, to defend anything about Dan Snyder, but a contract is a contract.

BUT, the fact that fans have to sign these contracts just to get seats is absolutely ridiculous. The whole ticket sales fiasco is getting a lot of attention in the DC area right now, especially because the Redskins are either looking the other way or actively helping scalpers get tickets and making real fans pay outrageous amounts of money to get to games.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/09/01/AR2009090103984.html

http://deadspin.com/5350715/redskins-cut-out-middle-man-sell-directly-to-scalpers

so, to sum things up, despite a contract obviously being legally binding, and perhaps you should not buy a ten year contract worth of tickets if your financial situation can't handle it in a worst case scenario (and why couldn't she have just scalped the tickets herself?), the thing to take away from all this is that the Redskins are run by a greedy prick.

Forums