Export thread

Okay, here we go. The whole story from start to finish.

We want there to be more comics on the front page. I entertained some ideas and one leaped out at me.

Invisible Comics.

Trouble is, I want to write them. The person who came up with the idea originally had made 5 of them and copyrighted them. He wants to write them. So I made an offer to purchase the copyright. He's agreeable, but I have NO clue as to what an equitable price is.

So I'm asking you. I'm putting the first one I made below. Take a look at it and tell me if you think the idea has merit. If it does not, I probably won't buy it. If it might be worth it, I'd be paying some cash and an agreement of 50% of any merchandising profit - if any.

Here's what I will NOT do.

1. I will not make minor changes in font or name to get around the copyright.
2. [STRIKE]I will not make or post any more of these until we get this resolved.[/STRIKE]
3. I will not allow insults against the person I'm talking to. It is his idea and he deserves the recognition.

The reason I'm asking you all anything is because I'd have to break down and ask for donations to pay him. Only a few of you know this but I got into a row with the IRS recently....they won. SO if I agree to this it would either be donations to get it going or I'd wait a couple of months until I got him paid off.

So what do YOU think would be an equitable amount? Please give reasons. Again, no name calling, please!

And now...Invisible Comics.

I don't get it.

I thought it was alright but I feel that it could swing heavily between boring and funny depending on how the dialogue is handled.

Okay how's about this? The comic would be totally meta. It would acknowledge that it was a webcomic and each "character" would be nothing more than their own style of speech bubble. So my voice would always be the red/pink square and the other character (as yet unnamed) would always be green circle. So we could have several characters each with their own personalities. So if someone wanted to write one all they'd have to do is put the character names in and I'd be able to build the comic. In addition, we can use ANY format, not just the 3/4 panel comic.

I guess I've got two big problems with it.

1. It's not funny.

2. It's just text boxes and dialogue. You can't copyright text boxes and it sounds like you wouldn't be using this guy's dialogue anyway. Giving him money would just be letting yourself get ripped off.

That's not an invisible comic. This is an invisible comic:

Mildly interesting concept that doesn't seem like it would have legs, not to mention the amount of writing chops you would need to pull something like this off. Also, to reinforce what Baerdog said, paying for this seems dumb. You're paying for the name, but who the fuck has heard of Invisible Comics? I'm almost certain I've seen webcomics use this particular conceit before. Doesn't seem like it's worth the money, or the time, to be honest.

Philosopher B. said:

That's not an invisible comic. This is an invisible comic:

Click to expand...

BRILLIANT! Better copyright that shit.

drifter said:

Mildly interesting concept that doesn't seem like it would have legs, not to mention the amount of writing chops you would need to pull something like this off. Also, to reinforce what Baerdog said, paying for this seems dumb. You're paying for the name, but who the fuck has heard of Invisible Comics? I'm almost certain I've seen webcomics use this particular conceit before. Doesn't seem like it's worth the money, or the time, to be honest.

Click to expand...

1. I'm sure people said the same thing about Dinosaur Comics.
2. I looked and looked for a similar concept online. I could find nothing. This may well be an original idea. They do happen you know.

It isn't creative enough to be unique. It's just text boxes talking to each other


Hey call it The Adventure of Purple and Green Textbox.


Whole new concept.

I don't think it's worth money.

Dave;446318][QUOTE=drifter said:

Mildly interesting concept that doesn't seem like it would have legs, not to mention the amount of writing chops you would need to pull something like this off. Also, to reinforce what Baerdog said, paying for this seems dumb. You're paying for the name, but who the fuck has heard of Invisible Comics? I'm almost certain I've seen webcomics use this particular conceit before. Doesn't seem like it's worth the money, or the time, to be honest.

Click to expand...

1. I'm sure people said the same thing about Dinosaur Comics.
2. I looked and looked for a similar concept online. I could find nothing. This may well be an original idea. They do happen you know.

[/QUOTE]

Panel One | TwentySevenLetters

Dave;446318][QUOTE=drifter said:

Mildly interesting concept that doesn't seem like it would have legs, not to mention the amount of writing chops you would need to pull something like this off. Also, to reinforce what Baerdog said, paying for this seems dumb. You're paying for the name, but who the fuck has heard of Invisible Comics? I'm almost certain I've seen webcomics use this particular conceit before. Doesn't seem like it's worth the money, or the time, to be honest.

Click to expand...

1. I'm sure people said the same thing about Dinosaur Comics.
2. I looked and looked for a similar concept online. I could find nothing. This may well be an original idea. They do happen you know.

[/QUOTE]

1. I would argue Dinosaur Comics is more the exception, not the rule. Pointing to something and saying "Hey, that worked, kinda, that one time" does not seem to be a promising basis of support.
2. To be fair, the instances I recall were most likely fillers for regular webcomics, so perhaps this would indeed be the very first standalone "invisible" webcomic. Or perhaps you could find none such comics because they just tend to suck that hard

-edit-
Allen's google-fu is strong.

I don't like it.

The concept is...ok? It's just that comics are a visual medium. You need something other than text boxes. Dinosaur comics works because of smart writing and the fact that it does have absurd characters: Dinosaur discussing science/philosophy/etc.

As it is, this is just you or someone else writing dialog and that is not something you can base a comic around. You're supposed to SHOW not TELL in a comic.

That being said...I just had an idea.

Don't pay anything. Just use whatever images you can for the characters. Sprites, stick figures, clip art, images with no copyright holders etc.


My suggestion would be old/famous paintings.

I actually laughed at the last picture... I think it has potential, but it needed that picture at the end to work IMO.

I could see this being funny. I'm not sure if it's worth much money though.
Also, I SWEAR I've seen something like this before. TO THE INTERNETS!

I had never seen that done in a stand alone comic but I have seen that in regular comics especially if the lights are suppose to be out or one where it was suppose to be specters. I agree with espy that it definitely needs that picture at the end. Comics just seem to work so much better if there is at least some visual representation. Maybe you could just have a picture at the end revealing the situation or showing a reaction, that might work. Id actually love to see a comic about conversations that cause people to make the durr face.

I like the idea and Im fine with no images. I just don't think it is something that should be paid for.

Whether or not this is a good idea (I think no) I certainly wouldn't pay anyone for it.

phil said:

Don't pay anything. Just use whatever images you can for the characters. Sprites, stick figures, clip art, images with no copyright holders etc.


My suggestion would be old/famous paintings.

Click to expand...

Here's an example of what I mean. It's just a painting, with different focuses making up the panels. Eventually they start throwing around different paintings instead of just using this one template over and over again. I think it's a pretty clever way to make a comic without actually making a comic.

WarGames - #7

Espy said:

I actually laughed at the last picture... I think it has potential, but it needed that picture at the end to work IMO.

Click to expand...

I think the humor is subjective, and it depends on the story, what's being said.. as far as who's saying it, well that remains quite the mystery, which would only come out either in the story (if there is one) or a continuation (again if there is one or it's a one-off).

I think it has potential.

I see very little potential. You must convince me. :|

doomdragon6 said:

I see very little potential. You must convince me. :|

Click to expand...

They are getting less invisible and more "Dave's World".

---------- Post added at 09:55 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:54 PM ----------

If you can't see the potential in that...I don't know what to tell you.

Can I copyright silence? I'll be RICH!

Well you cant call it Dave's World.

I would say the final image shouldn't be limited to Dave. IT can be anything. It's the punchline.

There's two issues here.

1) The concept itself: You're relying entirely on the dialogue to be funny, unless you intend to point out how you decided to not show the speakers in every single comic. Dinosaur Comics is able to reinforce their schtick every single comic without having to waste any time on it. I think you'd be better off switching to IM chatboxes or something, reinforcing the idea that you (since you used your images) are having this conversation at work. This might have been done before, but I think your reaction shots/pictures make it different if that's the schtick. You could also ask for picture submissions from the Halfies, and write a new comic based on that picture each time, as if it were an IM conversation.

2) The legal issue: If you're really interested, ask a lawyer. No foolin' here. What two non-legally-savvy people believe is fair value for an IP transfer is not necessarily fair value. That said, what the others have said is probably correct; while you can trademark/copyright a name in use, you can't copyright as broad a visual concept as text-bubbles, and you shouldn't pay someone for that.

SpecialKO said:

There's two issues here.

1) The concept itself: You're relying entirely on the dialogue to be funny, unless you intend to point out how you decided to not show the speakers in every single comic. Dinosaur Comics is able to reinforce their schtick every single comic without having to waste any time on it. I think you'd be better off switching to IM chatboxes or something, reinforcing the idea that you (since you used your images) are having this conversation at work. This might have been done before, but I think your reaction shots/pictures make it different if that's the schtick. You could also ask for picture submissions from the Halfies, and write a new comic based on that picture each time, as if it were an IM conversation.

2) The legal issue: If you're really interested, ask a lawyer. No foolin' here. What two non-legally-savvy people believe is fair value for an IP transfer is not necessarily fair value. That said, what the others have said is probably correct; while you can trademark/copyright a name in use, you can't copyright as broad a visual concept as text-bubbles, and you shouldn't pay someone for that.

Click to expand...

1) That's pretty much exactly what I was looking to do. With other people's pictures, that is. They could submit pictures to me that are legal and free of use and they would be the last "reveal" panel.
2) I ran it past some legal eagles at my work. I won't say what they said at this time.

So question then.. how does something like KCWM stick figure comics get copyrighted?

The stick figure concept isn't copyrighted but the writing and art used in each individual panel is copyrighted under the name.

Anyone can make a stick figure comic a la XKCD but they'll have to fight through the stigmas that their comic is an XKCD ripoff.

+1 to IM Chatboxes.

Not claiming to be a master lawsman here, but I am in a Communications and Law class right now and we're covering Trademark and Copyright.

Can be copyrighted:
Invisible Comics [Name]
Each individual comic, panel, etc

Cannot Be Copyrighted:
Speech Bubbles as a medium

----------------------------------------

Why I fully endorse IM Chatboxes and not speech bubbles:

1) IM Chatboxes suddenly took me from "This is stupid," (Sorry Dave) to "That would be interesting."
2) It avoids this whole issue entirely
3) You don't have to @#$%in' pay for it
4) The picture at the end actually makes sense, and doesn't destroy the entire point of Invisible Comics
5) It opens up a FLOODGATE of puns for a comic title, and I. Love. Puns. (Examples: "IM Legend" "IM Comical" etc.)

Cons:
1) The comic you just posted had an interruption in it. You can't do that with IM chatboxes like with speech bubbles. At best, you can type, "But I..."

That's about it. XD

Go on the IM boxes.

Count one more vote in favour of the IM chatbox idea!

IM Comic #1 11/15/07

IM! - Perpetual Motion

I found a couple more.

Here's what I'm thinking.

Keep the format the way it is with word balloons and end it with a picture. We can use any picture people send (and allow us to use). We could call it "The House of Hal". Ties in the web name, the forum and the folks from the site.

Thoughts?

Dave said:

Okay, here we go. The whole story from start to finish.

We want there to be more comics on the front page. I entertained some ideas and one leaped out at me.

Invisible Comics.

Trouble is, I want to write them. The person who came up with the idea originally had made 5 of them and copyrighted them. He wants to write them. So I made an offer to purchase the copyright. He's agreeable, but I have NO clue as to what an equitable price is.

So I'm asking you. I'm putting the first one I made below. Take a look at it and tell me if you think the idea has merit. If it does not, I probably won't buy it. If it might be worth it, I'd be paying some cash and an agreement of 50% of any merchandising profit - if any.

Here's what I will NOT do.

1. I will not make minor changes in font or name to get around the copyright.
2. [STRIKE]I will not make or post any more of these until we get this resolved.[/STRIKE]
3. I will not allow insults against the person I'm talking to. It is his idea and he deserves the recognition.

Click to expand...

I think you're making too many changes to the original concept in order to make your own. I think you should just make your own and call it whatever you want, and leave the other the way the person wants to do it.

Dave did you get that last PM I sent? If so what did you think of the last two?

Just an FYI.. *cough* you now CAN patent an idea in the USA For example "having something play automatically in a web browser" is patented, Microsoft had to pay the guy that patented in order for Internet Explorer to have that capability (a flash program playing automatically/a youtube video playing automatically) so technically all Dave would have to do it put out the money for a Patent of "A comic where the only thing seen are the characters text and the characters are never seen" then boom he could make the guy that "created" those comics either A)Pay him in order to use the concept or B) Take his comics offline. At the same time with Dave having that patent he could make use of it however he wanted. I'm just saying now.

A patent is different from a copyright.

Yes, but with the patent you could make the guy pay you to do his comics but I'm just an ass

edit: Here's the patent I was talking about

United States Patent 7779035

According to the invention, a system for downloading audio or video to a browser is disclosed. The system includes a media server, a content database and a web page. The content database includes the content object, and the content database is linked to the media server. The web page presented to the browser and includes a link to the content object. The link avoids activating an autoplay feature of the browsers should the link be activated.

edit 2: Can you copyright something that is patented by someone else?

NO, copyrights and patents are DIFFERENT and are used for DIFFERENT things! You cannot patent a comic!

Copyrights were originally used to protect literature but have been expanded to art (including music, paintings, sculpture, photography, cinema, and choreography), architecture, and computer programs.

Patents are used to protect a new process, machine, article of manufacture, material compound, or an improvement of the aforementioned. You bringing patents into the discussion of whether or not Dave should pursue this asinine comic idea is absolutely worthless because patents are not applicable here.

I learned something today, thank you.

Final update:

I spoke with some lawyers last week and was told that the only thing that could be held against me was the title. Everything else is basically open domain unless the thought bubbles give themselves names - then those names would be protected also. I showed them original comics by the author and the ones I posted and was told that the person would have no case.

But the author and I have worked things out without the lawyers. In fact, if he's reading this it's the first time that he's even heard I've spoken with lawyers. To him I want to make sure he knows I wasn't going to them trying to get out of paying but was trying to see if there was a standard cost/payment.

So look fairly soon for a comic called "The House of Hal" starring me and any forumite who sends me a picture that they want to use as the last panel.

Dave said:

IM Comic #1 11/15/07

IM! - Perpetual Motion

I found a couple more.

Here's what I'm thinking.

Keep the format the way it is with word balloons and end it with a picture. We can use any picture people send (and allow us to use). We could call it "The House of Hal". Ties in the web name, the forum and the folks from the site.

Thoughts?

Click to expand...

I like them. Its a good idea and really allows forum participation. Here's one I really like: Twenty five minutes on Chatroulette.com is like a drill to the head. This was just a one shot but you get the general idea.