Export thread
iPhone opening weekend biggest ever
#1
strawman
strawman
iPhone 5s and 5c sold a combined total of 9 million units since it went on sale this last Friday. That's 3 million units per day, a pace of 70 units per second.
Last year they only sold 5 million iPhone 5's, but this year they sold in China on opening day as well, and in previous years they've opened new countries to first day sales, so this isn't 9 million just in the US.
Also over 200 million iOS devices are now running the new iOS 7. Since they've only sold less than 10 million new devices, that means over 190 million older devices were upgraded in the last 4 days. That's 200 million very active, less than 3 years old iOS devices in the world right now, approximately one for every 35 people on the planet.
I know that Android is doing well, and even windows phone isn't too shabby, but this is more than jaw-dropping when you really consider what it means.
Even if Apple only made $100 profit per phone (hint, they made more. A lot more.) then they pulled a profit (not revenue, but pure profit) of 1 billion dollars in a 3 day period. They'll easily make another 9 billion before they release the next iPhone, and that's just on the iPhone, not counting the iPads, macs, iPods, etc.
Last year they only sold 5 million iPhone 5's, but this year they sold in China on opening day as well, and in previous years they've opened new countries to first day sales, so this isn't 9 million just in the US.
Also over 200 million iOS devices are now running the new iOS 7. Since they've only sold less than 10 million new devices, that means over 190 million older devices were upgraded in the last 4 days. That's 200 million very active, less than 3 years old iOS devices in the world right now, approximately one for every 35 people on the planet.
I know that Android is doing well, and even windows phone isn't too shabby, but this is more than jaw-dropping when you really consider what it means.
Even if Apple only made $100 profit per phone (hint, they made more. A lot more.) then they pulled a profit (not revenue, but pure profit) of 1 billion dollars in a 3 day period. They'll easily make another 9 billion before they release the next iPhone, and that's just on the iPhone, not counting the iPads, macs, iPods, etc.
#2
bhamv3
bhamv3
So... Apple could afford to give me, say, a million dollars?
#3
strawman
strawman
They wouldn't miss it.
#4
PatrThom
PatrThom
The really telling statistic is about how iOS 7 adoption surpassed iOS 6 by the third day after its release (which is just under two days after the new phones went on sale).
Also, there's the arstechnica story which says that this iPhone launch was the best launch "...since the last one."
Let's see what the stock analysts say this year. Last year it was all about how Apple failed to move as many iPhones as the market predicted...because the sales figure the market predicted was higher than the number of iPhones Apple actually made.
--Patrick
Also, there's the arstechnica story which says that this iPhone launch was the best launch "...since the last one."
Let's see what the stock analysts say this year. Last year it was all about how Apple failed to move as many iPhones as the market predicted...because the sales figure the market predicted was higher than the number of iPhones Apple actually made.
--Patrick
#5
Gilgamesh
Gilgamesh
I'd love to see the numbers between China and here on phones sold.
#6
Bowielee
Bowielee
iOS7 is slick as hell
#7
strawman
strawman
I appreciate the concrete improvements (easy access to camera, flashlight, search, and the app switching is better) but I'm not sold on the design. It does feel cleaner and lighter, but it just doesn't suit me I suppose.
I do not like the additional time the animations take. I just want to go to my app, don't waste my time blowing up the icon and fading to the opening screen, etc.[DOUBLEPOST=1380042468,1380041878][/DOUBLEPOST]I figured it wouldn't take long, since there's a pretty broad base of fingerprint hacking knowledge out there, but the CCC in germany have demonstrated a successful copying and spoofing a fingerprint from an object the user touched to unlocking their phone without their finger:
I do not like the additional time the animations take. I just want to go to my app, don't waste my time blowing up the icon and fading to the opening screen, etc.[DOUBLEPOST=1380042468,1380041878][/DOUBLEPOST]I figured it wouldn't take long, since there's a pretty broad base of fingerprint hacking knowledge out there, but the CCC in germany have demonstrated a successful copying and spoofing a fingerprint from an object the user touched to unlocking their phone without their finger:
#9
strawman
strawman
Nice and concise. I'm thinking that you could do the same thing with a laser cutter and a hotdog, though, skipping the printing, exposing, etching, and gluing steps. Just use the laser to carve the ridges into the hotdog surface.
#10
bhamv3
bhamv3
You guys seen that "iOS7 makes your phone waterproof" prank?
#11
Bowielee
Bowielee
By the way, those videos of guys doing mission impossible stuff to obtain a fingerprint does not mean that ZOMG you phone is so unsecure, fingerprint scanner failed. If someone's going to those links to get your fingerprint to unlock your phone, you have much bigger problems than someone hacking your phone.
#12
strawman
strawman
Not necessarily. You leave some or most of your fingerprint on everything you touch.
You don't write down your pin on every surface you touch.
It's not trivial, but it's much easier to get a fingerprint than a pin.
Once I have a digital copy of your thumb, I have it forever. If I invite you to a party and am careful with the cups you use, I can get all your fingerprints.
You don't write down your pin on every surface you touch.
It's not trivial, but it's much easier to get a fingerprint than a pin.
Once I have a digital copy of your thumb, I have it forever. If I invite you to a party and am careful with the cups you use, I can get all your fingerprints.
#13
PatrThom
PatrThom
I think he's just saying that it's impractical to try and create a library of digits in the hope you might someday also aquire an iPhone. If someone wants to break the TouchID to get into your iPhone, they're going to have to specifically and non-trivially target you in order to do it.
Personally, I'm waiting for the update that enables the option that forces you to know the passcode AND have the fingerprint. 2-factor protection would be a welcome addition to defend the device that contains everything about everything about you. And not just against casual snooping, either.
--Patrick
Personally, I'm waiting for the update that enables the option that forces you to know the passcode AND have the fingerprint. 2-factor protection would be a welcome addition to defend the device that contains everything about everything about you. And not just against casual snooping, either.
--Patrick
#14
Covar
Covar
You know I really liked it, and did with the reveal at WWDC, but I was surprised at the people I know who I figured would hate it (some lazy excuse like its to colorful, pastel, different). I've yet to hear complaining over the aesthetics.iOS7 is slick as hell
#15
strawman
I'm not a big fan, but I'm pretty apathetic about it. Lighter, thinner font makes it so more stuff fits onscreen at once, which I'm a big fan of anyway. There's no point to having a high resolution display if you aren't going to put more information on it, IMO.
Keep in mind that this is the first iOS release that does not support the low resolution 3GS and earlier iphones. It's a little odd that it still supports iPad 2 with its low resolution display, but I suspect there's still a lot of them out there in active use, and given that it's larger anyway trying to cram so much onscreen isn't as important.
So just being able to ditch all the interface that supported the older, lower resolution iphone and ipod touch displays is a big win for using the retina display in the best way possible.
At any rate, here's the only article I'm aware of suggesting the interface is a step backwards, and it's got a number of good points from a UI perspective, rather than simple aesthetics:
http://tabtimes.com/analysis/ittech...apple-has-tossed-30-years-progress-out-window
strawman
They haven't been as strict about beta testers and developers releasing info and screenshots since it went into beta this last spring. Everyone who hated the new design talked about it then, it hasn't changed, so if they did so today it would be essentially the same whining.I've yet to hear complaining over the aesthetics.
I'm not a big fan, but I'm pretty apathetic about it. Lighter, thinner font makes it so more stuff fits onscreen at once, which I'm a big fan of anyway. There's no point to having a high resolution display if you aren't going to put more information on it, IMO.
Keep in mind that this is the first iOS release that does not support the low resolution 3GS and earlier iphones. It's a little odd that it still supports iPad 2 with its low resolution display, but I suspect there's still a lot of them out there in active use, and given that it's larger anyway trying to cram so much onscreen isn't as important.
So just being able to ditch all the interface that supported the older, lower resolution iphone and ipod touch displays is a big win for using the retina display in the best way possible.
At any rate, here's the only article I'm aware of suggesting the interface is a step backwards, and it's got a number of good points from a UI perspective, rather than simple aesthetics:
http://tabtimes.com/analysis/ittech...apple-has-tossed-30-years-progress-out-window
With iOS 7 Apple has tossed 30 years of progress out the window
Back in 1982, personal computers had monochromatic green screens. If you wanted to design a user interface, you had two tools available: Green letters and blank spaces.
With iOS 7, Apple has brought back the era of the hideously ugly, monochromatic 1982 UI. And it's worse than an IBM PC. Instead of a soft green color palette, iOS uses garish, florescent colors against harsh white backgrounds.
This is so wrong.
Steve Jobs had a deep and rich vision in 1981 for how user interfaces could work. If nontechnical users were going to do highly complex tasks on a computer with no training, he felt that Apple would need to make the technology disappear and the operations be utterly intuitive to nontechnical people.
The iPhone was the highest realization of Steve's vision. Unlike PC applications, iPhone apps were not merely software programs; they transformed the phone into familiar physical objects. The notepad looked like a notepad; the calendar was like holding a calendar; the clock looked like a clock.
In iOS 7, all of that is gone. Apps are now controlled with cryptic little florescent symbols that are interspersed across the screen. Everything looks the same. No more notepad; no more dials for making selections. It's all just dull software; black letters on white.
Even the blue tint that helped you see if the keyboard shift key was pressed has been eliminated.
Is that a document or a control?
The worst thing about iOS 7 is that the distinction between documents and controls is gone.
The iPhone always had a feeling like a well-engineered European sports car, with simple, purposeful buttons and dials to control the device. These controls were clearly and substantively distinct from user documents and workspaces. Now it's all blurred together, so you can't tell any more which things are controls and which aren't.
It reminds me of the days when you had to read a manual to learn how to use a piece of application software.
Graphic design gone amuck
The designers of iOS 7 forgot that consumers buy Apple products because they want simple, elegant devices to make their lives easier. But it appears to me as if the goal of iOS 7's designers was to look cool and hip, no matter the impact on users.
The new icons are garish, distracting, and less intuitive than the old ones. The new graphical flourishes--like making the lock screen photo go blurry and displaying bizarre voice waves when you talk to Siri--are gratuitous, useless and distracting.
I think this is far and away the worst thing Apple has ever done. Not only did the company throw away 30 years of progress, they have pulled all the major app makers down with them.
The new Facebook app, for example, seems to go 10 steps backward from the old one. And unlike New Coke, it would be extraordinarily difficult for Apple to switch quietly back to the quality product that customers liked, due to the compatibility challenges.
Visionary hardware
I think Apple has done some great things on the hardware front. I believe, for example, that the new fingerprint scanner and iBeacon in the iPhone 5s are the most visionary steps ever taken toward smartphones being able to replace cash and credit cards.
But Apple has made a giant mess with iOS 7. It's hard to imagine the Apple design people owning up to what they did any time soon.
It pains me to say it, but I think Apple has given its loyal customers good reason to start looking at Android and other options.
#16
PatrThom
--Patrick
PatrThom
If I had to guess, I would expect the reasoning for this is that the iPad Mini really is just a miniaturized iPad 2 inside, so if/when they drop support for the iPad 2, they would be abandoning the 1st gen iPad Mini as well...and they have yet to release any sort of iPad Mini successor.It's a little odd that it still supports iPad 2 with its low resolution display, but I suspect there's still a lot of them out there in active use, and given that it's larger anyway trying to cram so much onscreen isn't as important.
--Patrick
#17
strawman
strawman
Ah, yes, that makes perfect sense.
#18
Dei
Dei
I kind of hate iOS 7's look right now.
#19
Zappit
Zappit
Haven't taken the plunge yet. Downloaded the thing, but haven't installed it. I might just wait until the first iOS 7 update, since I don't foresee apps exclusive to that operating system anytime soon.
#20
DarkAudit
DarkAudit
First update is already here. 7.0.1 was waiting for 5c and 5s owners as soon as they unboxed their new phones.Haven't taken the plunge yet. Downloaded the thing, but haven't installed it. I might just wait until the first iOS 7 update, since I don't foresee apps exclusive to that operating system anytime soon.
#21
Zappit
Zappit
Interesting.
By the way, @DarkAudit, did you send me a direct message at Twitter? It had a link I don't want to click until I'm sure you weren't hijacked.
By the way, @DarkAudit, did you send me a direct message at Twitter? It had a link I don't want to click until I'm sure you weren't hijacked.
#22
DarkAudit
DarkAudit
I did not. And I've reset my password to fix that hole.Interesting.
By the way, @DarkAudit, did you send me a direct message at Twitter? It had a link I don't want to click until I'm sure you weren't hijacked.
#24
PatrThom
--Patrick
PatrThom
I know it updated the fingerprint sensor on the 5s, but no idea what it does for 5c.First update is already here. 7.0.1 was waiting for 5c and 5s owners as soon as they unboxed their new phones.
--Patrick
#25
Bubble181
Also also, even for a pickpocket, getting the finger print of the same person whose phone you're stealing is fairly easy. Assuming (and that's a big assumption!) the rest of the iPhone cover is covered in anti-fingerprint-foil (which does exist) or otherwise unfit to use as a base, picking someone's pocket while bumping into them, stealing the purse the phone's in, giving the person a hand, etc etc is, again, easily in the realm of possibilities. Turning a print into something useable on the phone may be hard, acquiring the print isn't. Once crooks adapt or start specifically designing operations based on the idea of getting both phone and print, a regular 4-digit PIN will be safer.
As Patrick said, a combination of both would be good. Otherwise, retinal scanners...Hardly more difficult with modern cameras than finger prints, a lot harder to fake...
Bubble181
While true, it's still easy. I could quite easily get most of my co-workers' finger prints offcups, papers, pens, heck, keyboards, within a day. For things like corporate espionage or pranks à la using your friends' phone to text his girlfriend etc etc, acquiring the right finger print is fairly easy - nobody pays any attention to what they touch and where they leave prints. A PIN, on the other hand, is harder to guess/predict based on knowing a person.I think he's just saying that it's impractical to try and create a library of digits in the hope you might someday also aquire an iPhone. If someone wants to break the TouchID to get into your iPhone, they're going to have to specifically and non-trivially target you in order to do it.
--Patrick
Also also, even for a pickpocket, getting the finger print of the same person whose phone you're stealing is fairly easy. Assuming (and that's a big assumption!) the rest of the iPhone cover is covered in anti-fingerprint-foil (which does exist) or otherwise unfit to use as a base, picking someone's pocket while bumping into them, stealing the purse the phone's in, giving the person a hand, etc etc is, again, easily in the realm of possibilities. Turning a print into something useable on the phone may be hard, acquiring the print isn't. Once crooks adapt or start specifically designing operations based on the idea of getting both phone and print, a regular 4-digit PIN will be safer.
As Patrick said, a combination of both would be good. Otherwise, retinal scanners...Hardly more difficult with modern cameras than finger prints, a lot harder to fake...
#26
Shakey
Shakey
7.02 is actually out now that fixes some lock screen security flaws. Probably useful for both.I know it updated the fingerprint sensor on the 5s, but no idea what it does for 5c.
--Patrick
#27
Bowielee
I'm all for security and all, but the amount of reaction to a few geeks going to extreme lengths to reproduce their own fingerprints to "prove" how bad the scanner security is is just laughable at best, paranoia at worst.
Bowielee
I'm going to safely predict that the average street thug who is going to steal your iPhone is not going to have an FBI type database and access the the means to reproduce the fingerprint. You need specialized equipment to do what these people are doing.While true, it's still easy. I could quite easily get most of my co-workers' finger prints offcups, papers, pens, heck, keyboards, within a day. For things like corporate espionage or pranks à la using your friends' phone to text his girlfriend etc etc, acquiring the right finger print is fairly easy - nobody pays any attention to what they touch and where they leave prints. A PIN, on the other hand, is harder to guess/predict based on knowing a person.
Also also, even for a pickpocket, getting the finger print of the same person whose phone you're stealing is fairly easy. Assuming (and that's a big assumption!) the rest of the iPhone cover is covered in anti-fingerprint-foil (which does exist) or otherwise unfit to use as a base, picking someone's pocket while bumping into them, stealing the purse the phone's in, giving the person a hand, etc etc is, again, easily in the realm of possibilities. Turning a print into something useable on the phone may be hard, acquiring the print isn't. Once crooks adapt or start specifically designing operations based on the idea of getting both phone and print, a regular 4-digit PIN will be safer.
As Patrick said, a combination of both would be good. Otherwise, retinal scanners...Hardly more difficult with modern cameras than finger prints, a lot harder to fake...
I'm all for security and all, but the amount of reaction to a few geeks going to extreme lengths to reproduce their own fingerprints to "prove" how bad the scanner security is is just laughable at best, paranoia at worst.
#28
DarkAudit
These "nerds" are just linkbait for news sites wanting to scare the public.
DarkAudit
Can it be done in less than 10 minutes... without leaving the room... to someone you've never seen or heard of before?I'm going to safely predict that the average street thug who is going to steal your iPhone is not going to have an FBI type database and access the the means to reproduce the fingerprint. You need specialized equipment to do what these people are doing.
I'm all for security and all, but the amount of reaction to a few geeks going to extreme lengths to reproduce their own fingerprints to "prove" how bad the scanner security is is just laughable at best, paranoia at worst.
These "nerds" are just linkbait for news sites wanting to scare the public.
#29
strawman
As far as thugs are concerned, you're right.
When they steal your phone they'll also take your thumb so they can unlock it, erase it and resell it. Much easier for them than trying to reproduce it.
I don't think the fingerprint scanner is a bad idea. I do think there are downsides, but most are non-issues. However no one needs to be left in the dark about the practical issues with biometric security, so why not try to fool it, and show the public what can be done with a little time and a few resources.
strawman
"prove" how bad the scanner security is
The security is arguably worse than the four digit pin. That's all. They aren't proving it's bad, just making sure people understand that it's a convenience feature, not a security feature.just linkbait for news sites wanting to scare the public.
As far as thugs are concerned, you're right.
When they steal your phone they'll also take your thumb so they can unlock it, erase it and resell it. Much easier for them than trying to reproduce it.
I don't think the fingerprint scanner is a bad idea. I do think there are downsides, but most are non-issues. However no one needs to be left in the dark about the practical issues with biometric security, so why not try to fool it, and show the public what can be done with a little time and a few resources.
#30
PatrThom
PatrThom
Figure this is the most appropriate thread to post this:
Looks promising.
--Patrick
Looks promising.
--Patrick
#31
Bowielee
Bowielee
Just so you're aware, you can reset an iPhone to factory defaults without severing someone's finger.When they steal your phone they'll also take your thumb so they can unlock it, erase it and resell it. Much easier for them than trying to reproduce it.
#32
strawman
strawman
I understood the latest OS ties the phone to the iCloud user account and can no longer be reset without that user's permission. It was one of the things touted as an anti-theft feature in the iOS 7 keynote address.Just so you're aware, you can reset an iPhone to factory defaults without severing someone's finger.
#33
PatrThom
--Patrick
PatrThom
It gives you the option of doing so, but it is not a requirement.I understood the latest OS ties the phone to the iCloud user account and can no longer be reset without that user's permission. It was one of the things touted as an anti-theft feature in the iOS 7 keynote address.
--Patrick