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there is talk going around from the production companies that they may go to subtitled only releases. now to you normal folks this is just fine, you could care less, but to me its the end of an era if it happens. I have been collecting anime for the last 10 years and watching even longer. and the idea of buying something without a feature it has had the entire time I collected it is dis-jarring for me to deal with. I am having a meta-physical infinite crisis and shit over here. You may ask why would this bother me, anime is anime bones, you must be some sort of basement dwelling mouth breathing troll to worry about this sort of thing, and you know what...YOU ARE COMPLETELY RIGHT! I totally am...but the real problem is that I COULD attain the same service I get buying English subbed DVD releases, by downloading from any number of fan subbing groups. here in lies my greatest problem. I don't know why I should spend my money on a service I could get for free(by stealing, which inst good) but would feel little remorse in doing if the DVDs I buy began coming without dubbing.

thank you and good night.

Its the end of the world as I know it, and I'm not fine...(anime rant, move along

dubbing has gotten better from the early *ugh* dubbing days but sometimes the dub voice actor is not getting the "real tone" from the Japanese counterpart. Ranma 1/2 was one of the old series good dub IMO but there has been some bad one where the tones are all wrong vs the Japanese one.

Personally I think some dub are just bad even with Asian Action film. Oh god, I can't watch them unless it is in original language. Daywatch and nightwatch (Russian film) I can't watch it in pure English dub, it is just lost to me.

Its the end of the world as I know it, and I'm not fine...(anime rant, move along

Not that I care about dubbing personally, but the idea that the dubbed-viewing audience of anime in the States is so small that they are losing money doing dubs at all doesn't smell right.

Its the end of the world as I know it, and I'm not fine...(anime rant, move along

TeKeo said:

Not that I care about dubbing personally, but the idea that the dubbed-viewing audience of anime in the States is so small that they are losing money doing dubs at all doesn't smell right.

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Nah. Anime is getting pretty big in the U.S. (not as big as Japan) but there is a market for sure.

The thing is that it is CHEAPER just to buy the raw and subtitle it (you need a team of translator, subbers, and equipment) than hiring voice actors (good one) to do all the dubbing and recording. This mean more cost to the company distributing in the U.S.

You have to pay the license fee
you have to pay for process and shipping (final product)

The cost mainly save is recording time and voice actors. That can get expensive if you want to get decent recording and takes.

Its the end of the world as I know it, and I'm not fine...(anime rant, move along

I have trouble getting the "real tone" as you put it even from subs. Since it is in Japenese I cant tell if they are being sarcastic, loving, resentful from just the voices. I need the pictures and translation to get the tone so substandard dubs dont bother me too much. Plus they allow me to concentrate more on the artwork and catch subtleties which I miss all too often in subs. I know Im not the only one so Im with you teKeo on not seeing how the dub audience is considered insignificant.

Its the end of the world as I know it, and I'm not fine...(anime rant, move along

Rovewin said:

I have trouble getting the "real tone" as you put it even from subs. Since it is in Japenese I cant tell if they are being sarcastic, loving, resentful from just the voices. I need the pictures and translation to get the tone so substandard dubs dont bother me too much. Plus they allow me to concentrate more on the artwork and catch subtleties which I miss all too often in subs. I know Im not the only one so Im with you teKeo on not seeing how the dub audience is considered insignificant.

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I watch many anime with Subs and dubs. Not all dubs are bad I am so use to watching Subs, I can't watch a movie without it anymore. It is like second nature and doesn't really bother me. If you don't watch it all the time, yea, it can get distracting.

I always watch my anime subs now-a-days. For example, if you watch Fushi Yuugi subs, and switch to dub, it is REALLY different. One of the character has a southern accent!! it is totally off from his character IMO (and many hardcore FY fans) that is just one example.

but in business, I think it boils down to cost really. I don't think the company thinks the dub fanbase is "worthless" on any level. It is just cheaper to buy the raw from Japan and sub it and redistribute it CHEAPER than having it dub and pass the cost to the fanbase. That is what I think it REALLY boils down to.

Its the end of the world as I know it, and I'm not fine...(anime rant, move along

Here's my short checklist of the reasons why this is happening:

- Anime Licensing fees are expensive as hell, so fewer networks are interested in buying series unless they know they will be a big hit. This is the primary reason why Adult Swim only gets 1-2 new anime series a year. (That and it's cheaper to give a college drop out 10 grand to churn out shit and call it avaunt garde comedy)
- It's incredibly hard to determine what is going to be a hit series. Everyone thought One Piece was going to take off, but because of how heavily it was cut and how poorly it was dubbed, it crashed hard. The same with Case Closed and Lupin the 3rd: Both big series in Japan, both flopped in the US. It's hard to justify the voice expense on a series that isn't going to sell to TV.
- This is the big one: If your not going to broadcast it on TV, their is NO REASON to do voice-overs or editing work. With the declining sales of anime to the networks, it's incredibly hard to justify paying VAs the big bucks for what is basically a niche audience, especially when said audience is already used to the idea of reading subtitles for a more "real" experience and yells at you for the slightest change you make.

Its the end of the world as I know it, and I'm not fine...(anime rant, move along

Getting anime fans to pay for anime is hard.

Its the end of the world as I know it, and I'm not fine...(anime rant, move along

Frank said:

Getting anime fans to pay for anime is hard.

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This too. I'm not sure why it's illegal to have a subbed version anyway... it's not illegal to tape something off of the airwaves and it's not illegal to modify a tape you own. So why is it illegal to distribute said tape, free of charge... especially when it's not illegal to have the tape itself?

Its the end of the world as I know it, and I'm not fine...(anime rant, move along

The only series I could stand dubbed was Tenchi. Otherwise dub can go straight to the trash where it belongs. Fan subbing is all that's ever truly needed.

If you feel bad about pirating a fan sub but still want to support your favorite anime? Download the fan subs and purchase the dubbed DVDs to give money where it's due.

Its the end of the world as I know it, and I'm not fine...(anime rant, move along

AshburnerX;384277][QUOTE=Frank said:

Getting anime fans to pay for anime is hard.

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This too. I'm not sure why it's illegal to have a subbed version anyway... it's not illegal to tape something off of the airwaves and it's not illegal to modify a tape you own. So why is it illegal to distribute said tape, free of charge... especially when it's not illegal to have the tape itself?[/QUOTE]

Because what you're describing right now is a textbook example of copyright infringement?

Its the end of the world as I know it, and I'm not fine...(anime rant, move along

TeKeo;384317][QUOTE=AshburnerX;384277][QUOTE=Frank said:

Getting anime fans to pay for anime is hard.

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This too. I'm not sure why it's illegal to have a subbed version anyway... it's not illegal to tape something off of the airwaves and it's not illegal to modify a tape you own. So why is it illegal to distribute said tape, free of charge... especially when it's not illegal to have the tape itself?[/QUOTE]

Because what you're describing right now is a textbook example of copyright infringement?[/QUOTE]

there is still international copyright laws.

A friend of mine use to fansub back in the early 90s (kera kano - he sub the whole series from LD) The subbing community usually don't mind distribution as long the U.S. doesn't hold a license to it. Once the U.S. got a license, the subbers quit. Mainly it is pretty close to home in terms of prosecution. While it is a gray area in terms of buying LD and subbing it for yourself (technically legal) the moment of distribution it becomes gray internationally, and once U.S. gets a license, it is pretty much black and white (of course it is matter of interpretation of the law. Copyright infringement is copyright infringement regardless internationally or locally.

Ash is right tho. It is hella expensive to redo all the voices and sound (background and stuff cause sometime if you don't do that you can hear the difference)

I have seen Lupin III in Japanese IT IS AWESOME. The Dub version.... wow... talk about bad.

Then there are censors. Japan Anime and American Anime differ quite a bit in terms of language, action, scene. I remember when the U.S. change Sailormoon cause Lesbian was a no-no. That kinda change the whole story and dialog..... BLAH!

Its the end of the world as I know it, and I'm not fine...(anime rant, move along

Chibibar said:

Then there are censors. Japan Anime and American Anime differ quite a bit in terms of language, action, scene. I remember when the U.S. change Sailormoon cause Lesbian was a no-no. That kinda change the whole story and dialog..... BLAH!

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The italian version made on of the 4 general guys from s1 a woman... but kept the subtext between Uranus and Neptune...

Its the end of the world as I know it, and I'm not fine...(anime rant, move along

Shegokigo said:

If you feel bad about pirating a fan sub but still want to support your favorite anime? Download the fan subs and purchase the dubbed DVDs to give money where it's due.

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This is actually what I have been doing since 2000, the unfortunate thing is I really don't feel like buying sub only dvd's if/and/or its basically the same quality as fan-subs.

Its the end of the world as I know it, and I'm not fine...(anime rant, move along

Bones;384435][QUOTE=Shegokigo said:

If you feel bad about pirating a fan sub but still want to support your favorite anime? Download the fan subs and purchase the dubbed DVDs to give money where it's due.

Click to expand...

This is actually what I have been doing since 2000, the unfortunate thing is I really don't feel like buying sub only dvd's if/and/or its basically the same quality as fan-subs.[/QUOTE]

heh.. I have bought some bad commercial subs (early days. the newer stuff is not bad) Fansub quality are usually pretty top notch cause they are "anal" in their subbing.

Its the end of the world as I know it, and I'm not fine...(anime rant, move along

Chibibar said:

Ash is right tho. It is hella expensive to redo all the voices and sound (background and stuff cause sometime if you don't do that you can hear the difference)

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This still assumes that the market of people who want dubbed anime is extremely small, however. Cutting costs isn't actually a good way to increase your bottom line if there's a direct impact on your sales volume corresponding to it.

If the dub market really is that small, honestly, that would really surprise me.

Its the end of the world as I know it, and I'm not fine...(anime rant, move along

TeKeo;384655][QUOTE=Chibibar said:

Ash is right tho. It is hella expensive to redo all the voices and sound (background and stuff cause sometime if you don't do that you can hear the difference)

Click to expand...

This still assumes that the market of people who want dubbed anime is extremely small, however. Cutting costs isn't actually a good way to increase your bottom line if there's a direct impact on your sales volume corresponding to it.

If the dub market really is that small, honestly, that would really surprise me.[/QUOTE]

Actually, it is pretty small. I have notice that the stock video at Fry's, Best Buy, and other stores in Texas is getting SMALLER (even Walmart) they use to be big. Now most of them stock Sub only (some dub)

So I figure if a large chain like that (Best Buy and Walmart) shrinking their anime stock, the market must be getting smaller or not profitable.

Its the end of the world as I know it, and I'm not fine...(anime rant, move along

Time to steal some shit!

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What an audience to cater to.

Its the end of the world as I know it, and I'm not fine...(anime rant, move along

escushion said:

Time to steal some shit!

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What an audience to cater to.

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truly we are horrible people....