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Jack Kirby Estate is going to f**ck Marvel/Disney
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JCM
JCM
This will be funURGENT! Intellectual Property Lawyer Marc Toberoff Goes After Disney/Marvel Deal & Other Studios For Jack Kirby Estate
Specifically, the estate of Jack Kirby, co-creator of Captain America, The Fantastic Four, The X-Men, The Avengers, Iron Man, Hulk, The Silver Surfer and Thor, has sent notices terminating copyright to publishers Marvel and Disney,
as well as film studios that have made movies and TV shows based on characters he created or co-created, including Sony, Universal, 20th Century Fox and Paramount Pictures. That's the news from the website bleedingcool.com, which covers all things comic book. Normally these kinds of lawsuits are run of the mill for Hollywood. But not when they're litigated by Marc Toberoff, who is the bane of Big Media. He's had so many victories they're hard to count, especially in he comic book arena on behalf of Superman creator Jerry Seigel against DC Comics and Warner Bros.
Like that case, Kirby’s estate is looking to regain his share of copyright in the characters and their use in comics and other media. \"Such claims, if found valid, would begin from 2014 and, as always, it's worth noting that Marvel/Disney will still own the trademarks of the characters in comics, and the studios in movies. The likelihood is that, if successful, the Kirby estate would enter into negotiation over terms to continue publishing comics based on his work,\" the website wrote. Other recent cases which Toberoff has won or settled lawsuits on Lassie, Get Smart, The Dukes of Hazzard, The Wild Wild West, and Smallville. On the Superman case, Warner Bros could have been draped in black mourning the loss of a shitload of Superman dollars because of U.S. District Court Judge Stephen G. Larson's ruling: \"After 70 years, Jerome Siegel’s heirs regain what he granted so long ago — the copyright in the Superman material that was published in Action Comics, Vol. 1. What remains is an apportionment of profits, guided in some measure by the rulings contained in this Order, and a trial on whether to include the profits generated by DC Comics’ corporate sibling’s exploitation of the Superman.\" Think about it: Siegel sold the rights to the action hero he created with Joseph Shuster to Detective Comics for $130, and his heirs got back ownership of the character in 1999 and could possibly lay claim to $50+ million of Warner Bros' and/or its DC Comics' cash. Can that happen in the Kirby case? The iron is that Disney CEO Bob Iger's ties to Marvel go back two generations to Kirby himself. That's because Iger's late great-uncle (his grandfather's brother) was illustrator/cartoonist Jerry Iger, who partnered with illustrator/cartoonist Will Eisner back in the 1930s to create the comic book packager Eisner & Iger Studios. And their first hire was Jack Kirby, who as you know later became the co-creator of many of Marvel's best known characters with then Marvel editor-in-chief Stan Lee. Lee, meanwhile, has been supportive of the Disney/Marvel deal (though he is fighting lawsuits of his own on other fronts.)
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JCM
Stan Lee would probably be ecstatic if Kirby's estate wins, because it would give him the legal standing to get his own direct share of the copyright (and associated profits), as opposed to whatever he makes from his ownership of Marvel stock.
I agree that it seems a bit much for his estate to do this, but if they're legally entitled to it thanks to the contract Kirby signed and the current state of law governing pre-1976 contracts, I can see why they would go for it.
It's not like they're suing a charity.[/QUOTE]However, unlike DC, Marvel always gave him credit for the creation, and also unlike DC, Marvel had him under a good salary, and Jack Kirby left for DC for a bigger offer.
If this was DC, ala the guys who refused credit and fired Shuster and Siegel, I´d be for the estate, but this is Marvel.
If he had wanted his characters, he shouldve negotiated BEFORE leaving Marvel, which he never bothered to do. otherwise might as well give every artist and his family a % of the cut, which isnt a viable choice.
After all, lets say- Wolverine Oigins.
-Deadpool? Give Liefeld a share of the cuts, as well as Fabian Nicieza
-Gambit? 4 creators, Chris Claremont and Jim Lee had the concept, Steve Gieger created the uniform and the rest was Mike Collins. Thats four families demanding credit.
-Stryker again would give money to Chris Claremont and Brent Anderson
-Ice Queen, again Claremont and also John Byrne
-Sabertooth, same as Ice Queen, again Claremont and also John Byrne
-Blob? Gotta give money to the Stan Lee and Kirby estates [
]
-Xavier? Stan Lee and Kirby too.
-Cyclops? Again, Stan Lee and Kirby.
-Silver Fox?Again Chris Claremont and John Buscema would get $
-Agent Zero? Jim Lee
-Bolt? Howard Mackie, Tom Grummett and Dan Lawlis
-Thomas Logan? Bill Jemas, Paul Jenkins, Joe Quesada, Andy Kubert
-John Wraith would bring money to Larry Hama
-Stryker´s son (Jason Stryker/Mastermind) was also created by Stan Lee and Jack Kirby
Heck, I can bet countless more people collaborated with any of these creations above, as well as with every Kirby creation (Thing´s orange came from the colorsit, heck, the inker is still uncredited until today), and countless temps and smaller artists/writers/editors have helped create what Stan Lee claims as his ideas drawn by Kirby, and the Kirby state wants a cut of.
Moral of the story? Read your contract, or make a creator-owned deal. Oh, and teach your kids not be goldiggers awaiting a Disney purchase.
JCM
According to that article (and the one the article links to), they're not trying to claim full copyright, just his "share", whatever that means.
We would need to see what was described in the contract he signed at the time. Work-for-hire did not exist as a legal concept until 1976, long after Kirby began working for Marvel. This is probably why Marvel tried for years to get him to sign away his rights to his works.
Stan Lee would probably be ecstatic if Kirby's estate wins, because it would give him the legal standing to get his own direct share of the copyright (and associated profits), as opposed to whatever he makes from his ownership of Marvel stock.
I agree that it seems a bit much for his estate to do this, but if they're legally entitled to it thanks to the contract Kirby signed and the current state of law governing pre-1976 contracts, I can see why they would go for it.
It's not like they're suing a charity.[/QUOTE]However, unlike DC, Marvel always gave him credit for the creation, and also unlike DC, Marvel had him under a good salary, and Jack Kirby left for DC for a bigger offer.
If this was DC, ala the guys who refused credit and fired Shuster and Siegel, I´d be for the estate, but this is Marvel.
If he had wanted his characters, he shouldve negotiated BEFORE leaving Marvel, which he never bothered to do. otherwise might as well give every artist and his family a % of the cut, which isnt a viable choice.
After all, lets say- Wolverine Oigins.
-Deadpool? Give Liefeld a share of the cuts, as well as Fabian Nicieza
-Gambit? 4 creators, Chris Claremont and Jim Lee had the concept, Steve Gieger created the uniform and the rest was Mike Collins. Thats four families demanding credit.
-Stryker again would give money to Chris Claremont and Brent Anderson
-Ice Queen, again Claremont and also John Byrne
-Sabertooth, same as Ice Queen, again Claremont and also John Byrne
-Blob? Gotta give money to the Stan Lee and Kirby estates [
]-Xavier? Stan Lee and Kirby too.
-Cyclops? Again, Stan Lee and Kirby.
-Silver Fox?Again Chris Claremont and John Buscema would get $
-Agent Zero? Jim Lee
-Bolt? Howard Mackie, Tom Grummett and Dan Lawlis
-Thomas Logan? Bill Jemas, Paul Jenkins, Joe Quesada, Andy Kubert
-John Wraith would bring money to Larry Hama
-Stryker´s son (Jason Stryker/Mastermind) was also created by Stan Lee and Jack Kirby
Heck, I can bet countless more people collaborated with any of these creations above, as well as with every Kirby creation (Thing´s orange came from the colorsit, heck, the inker is still uncredited until today), and countless temps and smaller artists/writers/editors have helped create what Stan Lee claims as his ideas drawn by Kirby, and the Kirby state wants a cut of.
Moral of the story? Read your contract, or make a creator-owned deal. Oh, and teach your kids not be goldiggers awaiting a Disney purchase.
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@Li3n
@Li3n
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JCM
Anyway, Deathstroke sucks, (although he was cool in Crisis) I prefer Deadpool, adding Nicieza´s 4th-wall banter and crazy antics (which were greatly improved by later writers), just like I prefer Green Lantern over the Lensmen
and Superman over Doctor Occult (More Fun Comics #14-17, wearing a cape)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dr._Occult
JCM
I think you mean give a share to Marv Wolfman and George Pérez... :toocool:[/QUOTE]Touché.
Anyway, Deathstroke sucks, (although he was cool in Crisis) I prefer Deadpool, adding Nicieza´s 4th-wall banter and crazy antics (which were greatly improved by later writers), just like I prefer Green Lantern over the Lensmen
and Superman over Doctor Occult (More Fun Comics #14-17, wearing a cape)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dr._Occult
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Yeah, Doctor Occult was kind of a Superman-in-progress concept. They also did a "The Superman" story where he was this super powerful psychic villain, as well (which was kind of reused in DC's Tangent universe).
I think, today, creator-owned properties have better deals. Especially if they're independently owned, such as Kirkman's Invincible or Mignola's Hellboy, which are owned entirely by them but distributed through Image and Dark Horse, respectively.
---------- Post added at 08:37 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:36 PM ----------
). Kirby drew the cover for Spidey's first appearance and some issues of Amazing, but that's it.
I think, today, creator-owned properties have better deals. Especially if they're independently owned, such as Kirkman's Invincible or Mignola's Hellboy, which are owned entirely by them but distributed through Image and Dark Horse, respectively.
---------- Post added at 08:37 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:36 PM ----------
THAT'S bull (their claim, not you
). Kirby drew the cover for Spidey's first appearance and some issues of Amazing, but that's it.
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SpecialKO
Apparently, they're claiming specific characters as well.
This part of lawsuit definitely makes it more like they're just trying to shock the hell out of Marvel, then "as a show of good faith", they'll let go of "their" claim to Spider-Man.
SpecialKO
Yeah, this part is pretty weird. Particularly since Stan Lee supposedly changed the entire character concept to avoid overlapping with one of Kirby's properties.THAT'S bull (their claim, not you
Apparently, they're claiming specific characters as well.
Um, what? The others aside, didn't Stan Lee and Ditko create JJ themselves as a parody of Stan Lee?
This part of lawsuit definitely makes it more like they're just trying to shock the hell out of Marvel, then "as a show of good faith", they'll let go of "their" claim to Spider-Man.
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*shrug* I stand corrected. My history of fish-talking characters sucks.
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JCM
JCM
On the green lantern, Cracked's article is pretty informative-
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6 Famous Characters You Didn't Know Were Shameless Rip Offs
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The Green Lantern
Green Lantern is the only superhero who can make a giant cue the shape of a dong to play pool with planets, and yet get his ass kicked by Sesame Street's Big Bird because he's allergic to the color yellow.
He is a Rip-Off of:
The classic space opera series Lensman started in 1937, and since then, just like Thomas Jefferson before it, fought injustice and left enough bastard children around to populate a small city.
Every sci-fi series with some sort of space police owes something to Lensman, from the Jedi Knights of Star Wars to Buzz Lightyear. If it has space policemen then it's ripping off Lensman or ripping off something that ripped it off first. The apple that fell closest to the tree was the Green Lantern Corps.
The first Green Lantern was created just one year after the first Lensman story was published, but back then Green Lantern was just one guy who found a magic ring and he wasn't weak against yellow but to wood, making the banana tree the only natural predator of all Green Lanterns. Or maybe, also, really racist cartoons of Asian people with baseball bats.
In 1950, the original Green Lantern had been out of print for quite a few years and DC comics thought it was time to bring back the name. Now this time he was part of a group of space policemen, which are like regular policemen but they stop black people in fancy cars in space. Now, unlike the Jedi Knights who were happy to just copy the general idea of space policemen and a few things here and there, the Green Lanterns Corps went overboard.
The Lensmen were created by the most advanced alien race in the universe, the Arisians. The Green Lanterns were created by the Oans. The Lensmen are chosen for being the epitome of bravery and honesty, just like the Green Lanterns (how they even measure that is never explained, probably have them fill out a questionnaire). Finally, both organizations give their member a special, unique weapon that can be used by nobody else but the person to whom it was given. In Lensmen's case a lens that gives them telepathic powers, and in Green Lantern's case the ring that can't protect you from banana peels.
The creators of Green Lantern deny even knowing about Lensman, which is odd coming from sci-fi writers talking about a sci-fi series that was well known in its time. It would be like \"Star Wars? Nope, doesn't ring a bell...\" coming from your local nerd. As a bit of a nod and wink, a Green Lantern was created as a homage to the Lensman series (Arisia, named after the planet where the Arisians from Lensman come from).
Also, although it doesn't count as a rip-off, according to comic historians the Oans, the blue midget aliens who go around giving out Green Lantern rings, are based on David Ben-Gurion, the first prime minister of Israel. And we are including the picture because we love the side by side comparisons pictures thing.
That's just weird.
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Batman
Oh, shit. We went there.
He is a Rip-Off of:
El Zorro! Yes, the guy with the sword.
Zorro, created by Johnston McCulley, debuted in 1919 in the pulp magazine All Story Weekly. And while some of the things that make Batman Batman were inspired by other sources (his rogues gallery was inspired by the army of fugly mutants Dick Tracy has been putting in jail since 1931) a big bunch of them were copied from Zorro.
Zorro was first at being a millionaire playboy-slash-dark costumed evil face puncher. Zorro had a secret cave under his mansion where he kept his horse and Zorro stuff, not unlike a certain caped crusader. The big difference being that Zorro didn't call it the Zorrocave or the Zorrohorse.
Zorro was also the first hero with a butler, his trusty servant Bernardo. But Alfred is probably more useful since Bernardo was deaf and mute. With Alfred you just have to yell \"Hey, go make me a hotdog.\" With Bernard you have to mimic putting a sausage in your mouth, rub your tummy and then hope he doesn't think you want him to fellate you.
And last, Zorro also hid his secret costumed persona by pretending to be a complete foppish rich douche long before Bruce Wayne. Although, to be fair, the Scarlet Pimpernel invented this one in 1903, but nobody counts him since he committed the crime of having a superhero name that was lame despite having the word \"pimp\" in it.
The connections are so obvious DC comics doesn't bother to deny them. In fact, the movie lil' Bruce Wayne goes to see with his parents the night they're shot is The Mark of Zorro.
A clever nod to the original masked vigilante? Maybe. Or maybe in an effort to keep their secret safe, Batman's creators were trying to send a message to children: if you go see anything with Zorro in it, your family will be killed.
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in case it isn't clear, i said that GL didn't start as a Lensmen rip off, not that the Silver Age reboot wasn't one...
As for Deadpool, well i recall reading somewhere that "you do the Deathstroke in the Deadpool" was actually a joke Liefeld actualy used... (but of course as something i heard on the internet it might not be trustworthy).
Anyhow, when DC sued the last decision was that Marvel was not a Supes rip off, but that some stories used might be (one Cpt. Marvel writer admited they where "encouraged" to copy stories from Action Comics), which is why they settled after, for fear that they'd have to pay when the comics wheren't making as much money as they used to. Seems unlikely they'd do that if they could have counter sued because Supes stole powers from Cpt. Marvel...
Of course Namor had flight before them (1939, in his first appearence).
Oh, and not only did Supes had Hugo Danner's powers, but the iconic cover of Action Comics #1 where he lifts the car over his head is taken straight from a scene in the book. And the book probably doesn't qualify as a pulp either based on it's synopsis: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gladiator_(novel)
@Li3n
Alan Scott would like to have a word with you...
in case it isn't clear, i said that GL didn't start as a Lensmen rip off, not that the Silver Age reboot wasn't one...
As for Deadpool, well i recall reading somewhere that "you do the Deathstroke in the Deadpool" was actually a joke Liefeld actualy used... (but of course as something i heard on the internet it might not be trustworthy).
That's not accurate either... what Supes stole was female and younger version of him, and making his scientist enemy bald (but apparently that was a mistake at printing or drawing)... and one could argue flight, as Cpt. Marvel did it in his serial before Supes did it in his cartoon (and kryptonite and some Daily Planet cast came from the radio show etc.)... but i'm not sure about who did it first in the comics...
Anyhow, when DC sued the last decision was that Marvel was not a Supes rip off, but that some stories used might be (one Cpt. Marvel writer admited they where "encouraged" to copy stories from Action Comics), which is why they settled after, for fear that they'd have to pay when the comics wheren't making as much money as they used to. Seems unlikely they'd do that if they could have counter sued because Supes stole powers from Cpt. Marvel...
Of course Namor had flight before them (1939, in his first appearence).
Oh, and not only did Supes had Hugo Danner's powers, but the iconic cover of Action Comics #1 where he lifts the car over his head is taken straight from a scene in the book. And the book probably doesn't qualify as a pulp either based on it's synopsis: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gladiator_(novel)
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@Li3n
@Li3n