Japan: You're your own worst enemy.

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C

Chibibar

They are having population issue. I do not understand why parents are being what they are over there. I just don't understand it.
 
sixpackshaker

sixpackshaker

America saw similar upswing in child abuse in the 80's. The numbers mostly reflect the reality that abuse was under-reported. This also can represent changing attitudes in what is considered "acceptable discipline." Whipping a child 30 years ago was not quite frowned upon like it is now.
 
drifter

drifter

This is a touchy subject, and I don't want to minimize child abuse, but the article seems like a bit of scare-mongering. Out of curiosity, I did a quick run through some numbers I Googled up; the rise in percentage of reported incidents is alarming, but total numbers is still pretty small. That article states that in 2009, there were about 40,000 reported cases of child abuse. There are slightly less than 17 million children age 15 or lower in Japan. That's about 0.25% rate in child abuse. By comparison, child abuse is 4 times higher in the US at a bit above 1.0%.

The bigger problem seems to be the lack of support and infrastructure available to help children who need it.
 
J

Jiarn

Two contridictions there:

One, we didn't have a population issue in the US in the 80s. Not saying that's an excuse one way or another, just saying that it would seem there would be even more care for the children in a crisis like that.

Two: US is going to have a higher abuse rate because we're larger, we have alot higher percentages of teenage/young pregnancy, higher violence rates and higher divorce rates.
 
tegid

tegid

Just one nitpick: being a larger country should not change a rate (the rest of your points are fair though)
 
J

Jiarn

No, it shouldn't, but what I mean is, by larger, there are more factors that will play into it by having larger percentages (the other points I made).
 
T

themike

The percentage shouldn't be higher but the amount of kids that percentage represents is bigger
 
J

Jiarn

Well what I mean is, because of the bigger country, you also have more factors that will contribute to the abuse.

More divorced families, more teenage/young pregnancies, more low income families, etc. So bigger country will have more cases for more reasons than a smaller one.
 
C

Chibibar

that is why you go by percentage instead of actual numbers.
If the population is 1 million
abuse 100,000
crime 200,000
then the percentage is
abuse 10%
crime 20%

but if population is 10 million
abuse 250,000
crime 100,000
then the percentage is
abuse 2.5%
crime 1.0%

While the U.S. is bigger in population the ratio can still be compare to other country via percentage.
 
J

Jiarn

I think people are missing my point. I'm not saying that larger population directly = larger percentage.

I'm saying larger population = more factors to create larger percentage.
 
C

Chibibar

Jiarn: I would think it would be smaller. It is higher chance of falling in the crack or not getting properly reported.
It is kinda (but not the same) like small town vs large town. In a smaller town, people know each other and things are notice/recorded (if recorded but someone knows about it) In a larger town, we hardly notice each other much less remember stuff or even know your neighbors.

To me, I feel that larger the city, the percentage are smaller due to lack of something toward each other. It is easier to be invisible in a larger city/country.

edit: also with a major population decline in Japan, I am sure that the government and other entities are looking out for issues with children more than that a country without population decline issue.

In the U.S. we have an opposite issue with teen pregnancy and stuff like that, but our social services are overwork (my co-worker's wife is a children social work and they are overwhelm in the North Texas area) and some reports are not being process fast enough or even reported TO social services. That is just my personal opinion.
 
drifter

drifter

One: on a macro level, it seems reasonable to wonder about child abuse in context of an aging and declining population, but I'm pretty sure child abuse happens on a micro level. I really don't see this as a contradiction.

Two: the difference in numbers between Japan and US is besides the point I am trying to make; I merely threw that in there for illustrative purposes. What I am saying is that the article is pumping up the increased rate to make it seem like child abuse is a raging epidemic, which doesn't really seem to be the case. Percentages can be alarming, but total numbers matter.
 
sixpackshaker

sixpackshaker

Actually Japan's population problem is that the nation is overcrowded. Japan is the size of California with an extra 100,000,000 population. It would seem living in such crowded conditions would make you more likely to be off your rocker.
 
C

Chibibar

North_Ranger said:
People... the article is about child abuse and you're droning on about statistics?

Tsk tsk.
Click to expand...
Well. I think main issue is that while child abuse is a bad (we all agree on that) the thing is that the news might "pump it up" as a rise while the overall numbers might be lower than say, compare to the U.S.

It doesn't make it right, but we shouldn't go into a full on "scare of the Japanese Child abuse statistic"
 
North_Ranger

North_Ranger

Staff member
Jiarn said:
Nice one drifter, nice one. -laugh-
Click to expand...
Seconded. ;)

And Chibs, I just thought it... I dunno, silly? Not the right word... to argue about statistical data on the matter. It is a human interest story, of course. And for some reason people like to hear what those wacky moon people are doing this time.

I guess it could also be a counter-argument against this concept of "tiger mothers" or something... but I understand that's more of a Chinese/continental Asian matter.
 
drifter

drifter

I think checking the data is a good idea when looking at human interest stories. If the case one makes depends on appealing to emotion instead of rational thought, it's probably not a very strong argument.
 
drifter

drifter

Well, the population problem is more than just too many people. The birth rate in Japan has dipped below replacement level. The population is actually expected to contract by over a fifth over the next 40 years if current trends hold. Schools are being shuttered because there simply aren't any kids to attend. There's also the looming issue of too few young workers to buttress too many retirees, another problem which isn't going to help Japan's moribund economy.
 
sixpackshaker

sixpackshaker

The established driving force of the Japanese economy is the ability to do the same job with 10% less resources. I am pretty sure Japan will figure this out.
 
C

Chibibar

Yes, the cities are overcrowded (in urban areas). Yes there are people to SHOVE you into trains, but we are talking about long term. There are fewer kids in school today than before. It is not drop out rate, it is that there isn't enough kids to keep the school going. That is the worry Japan have.

Of course the Social stigma and such of Japan doesn't help either.
 
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