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Otherwise known at my United Way contribution sheet.

What is it that allows this one charity to hold such a large axe over the heads of corporations? At one of my jobs if you didn't give you had to take a vacation day for a day when the office was going to be closed anyway for a holiday, otherwise you wouldn't get paid for it. That's extortion, plain and simple.

But why? Every corporation I've ever worked for has had this bend-over-and-take-it attitude when it comes to the United Way. And I don't get it. I used to not give just to spite them. Now, though, I have to play the good little corporate drone and give up my allotment. I contend that charity forced is not charity and that this should be illegal.

I agree, that is utter bullshit if you have benefits taken away for not donating.

The only time I worked at a place where they had this, I was already volunteering once or twice a week at a suicide hotline so I declined to additionally donate my money. But they didn't blackmail us into it there.

That's fucked up. Glad I've never had to do it.

Where I work we have an annual mandatory inservice- the sheet that you sign to prove that you attended.... is a form to make your donation to United Way. wtf. Not just a sign in sheet, a freaking donation form.

I just asked around and it's not as stringent here. they'd like you to give to help them meet their goals but it's not mandatory or even "voluntary" (that's how it was at that other place - "voluntary" - but if you didn't give...)

No manager is going to come knocking on my door if I don't give.

Which makes me more okay about doing it.

My work doesn't take anything away, but if you donate, you get to wear casual clothes for some arbitrarily chosen week.

The only charity I regularly donate to is Child's Play. Mainly because they don't bug me for money the rest of the year. I once donated a couple hundred dollars to the local food bank and since then I have constantly gotten pleas for more money to the point where I think that an equivalent amount of money has been used to generate all this mail. So, I don't donate money to them anymore, but instead participate more in the food drives at work.

The United Way is great and all, but they have fairly high overhead (i.e. a lot of the money goes to administration). Either way, extortion is bad. Luckily our company is too small to get in on the action.

Give to the Salvation Army. I know I'm biased, but we seriously kick ass.

[Salvation Army Propaganda]As far as the overhead bit goes, I'm trying to find the article online now, but someone pointed me to a piece a few years back that had a chart showing how much money the heads of various charitable organizations made anually. I can't say with 100% confidence if the General of the Salvation Army was the lowest payed, but I'm fairly sure he was. I'll post it here if I can find it[/Salvation Army Propaganda]

Not to bash other organizations who have large overheads. I know it's a necessity in some cases, and I'm not someone who believes the servants of humanity should suffer. But I'm just proud that nobody can accuse our leadership of being in it for the wrong reasons.

Every school does this in my area. For the past two years, I have always declined. The teachers who did donate got some free lesson plan pass.

This year, I figured why not. Since I can choose the amount, I chose to donate 5 bucks from each month.

They did a lot of work in this area after hurricane Katrina, so why not?


But in Dave's case? That's fucked up.

Wow.

Just wow.

I find it sad that people get repercussions for not "donating". It's your money, you earned it, you should do what you want with it as long as it is legal.

Isn't this a bit... socialist? Like you got "options" but at a cost when you are being extorted to lean towards their way?

I'm refuse to give to the United Way here because they support the Boy Scouts of America, an organization that isn't what it used to be since they've been so influenced by the Mormon church.. Some United Way groups don't, though.

It's a shame, too, since I loved my time I spent at the Boy Scouts camp outs.

Krisken said:

I'm refuse to give to the United Way here because they support the Boy Scouts of America, an organization that isn't what it used to be since they've been so influenced by the Mormon church.. Some United Way groups don't, though.

It's a shame, too, since I loved my time I spent at the Boy Scouts camp outs.

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Oddly enough, the Boy Scouts of America and their policy's were some of the factors leading to my development of Social Anxiety. Being trapped in a cabin with a bunch of older guys with no parental supervision (And one douchebag ex-friend who did nothing to stop them) for 2 days is what eventually broke me and turned me into Boo Radley for 9 years. To this day, I go out of my way to make sure I never support the Boy Scouts, Cub Scouts, or Girl Scouts of America. The fact that they've turned into an anti-gay hate group just makes me feel like I made the right decision.

AshburnerX said:

...Girl Scouts of America. The fact that they've turned into an anti-gay hate group

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Not the Girl Scouts. Separate organization with different policies.

SeriousJay said:

Isn't this a bit... socialist? Like you got "options" but at a cost when you are being extorted to lean towards their way?

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I think that's more Communist.

I've never seen any shit like that here in Canada, y'know beyond paying taxes, service fees, permit fees, and whatever other cash the gubbermint can wrest from our wallets. And that's just standard government stuff right across the political spectrum.

Now, just to be conversational, I just wanna say that as I was reading the OP I was thinking "I guess when your country prefers to rely on charity to support the less fortunate what you really wind up with is a sort of peer pressure tax.

ZenMonkey;266574][quote=AshburnerX said:

...Girl Scouts of America. The fact that they've turned into an anti-gay hate group

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Not the Girl Scouts. Separate organization with different policies.[/QUOTE]

Good to hear. I missed the cookies.

I think giving to charities is great, but I am quite selective. I avoid United Way at all costs. While I think they do some good work, my donation is being used very effectively. I donate to the Salvation Army every holiday. I also worked a bit for Habitat for Humanity.

I'm thinking about checking out Kiva. Has anyone done this?

AshburnerX said:

Oddly enough, the Boy Scouts of America and their policy's were some of the factors leading to my development of Social Anxiety. Being trapped in a cabin with a bunch of older guys with no parental supervision (And one douchebag ex-friend who did nothing to stop them) for 2 days is what eventually broke me and turned me into Boo Radley for 9 years. To this day, I go out of my way to make sure I never support the Boy Scouts, Cub Scouts, or Girl Scouts of America. The fact that they've turned into an anti-gay hate group just makes me feel like I made the right decision.

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Man, that's not fair.

The Boy Scouts was what KEPT me from becoming Boo Radley, in my case. It was pretty much the only social interaction I ever got with anyone because I was such a shut-in in my Middle/High school days outside of one super-best-totally-not-homosexual-even-though-we-slept-in-the-same-bed-a-couple-times-I-mean-it's-not-like-balls-were-touching friend.

Sure, sometimes we were right bastards to each other, and I certainly got made fun of quite a bit for being a total shut-in nerd. But compared to how I did with the social interaction the rest of the time and the times when I did get along with everyone just fine (which was a majority of the time, otherwise I wouldn't have stuck with it for as long as I did), this was pretty much the only thing keeping me from cracking and becoming a total shut-in crazy feller.

Playing cards, building fires, learning first aid, running from a gigantic bee swarm that some idiot stirred up by stepping on a bee's nest, working on community service projects, learning how to not freeze to death on winter campouts, getting up at 7AM and jumping in a freezing pool at summer camp, and selling popcorn in front of the local Blockbuster. All great times.

Plus the leaders were awesome. Taught me a whole bunch of great stuff, and the guy who was also my den leader in Cub Scouts is really high up there on my "adults who don't bullshit with you who are really, really deserving of respect" list.

I've heard plenty of horror tales from people, but I'm very happy to say that this never happened to me, and I've known people in other troops who got along just fine with the organization. Some of my fondest (read: ones I haven't blocked out to being boring, humiliating, or both) memories from childhood are with the Boy Scouts.

Unfortunately, the Boy Scouts today are not the organization you may have known as a kid. Penn & Teller's Bullshit! episode on them pretty much sums up why they will never get any kind of donation from me unless things change.

I, too, have the Boy Scouts to thank for the pleasentness of my childhood.. my mother was even a leader for them for several years and we had meetings at my house.

Funny enough, it was the moving away from that house and my mother getting a job that turned me into Boo Radley and led to my emotional breakdown back in 1999

Jesus. We just emails about giving which I delete as spam. I have had jobs that do the whole "but if you do give you get a bonus day off" bit, which pissed me right off.

And for the record, I am not now nor have I ever been Boo Radley.

My step-brother is in boyscouts and it seems about the same as ever, I guess people hate them because they are "anti-gay". That might be like the policy up above or in other troops but the troop he's in I don't think really gives a shit. Plus even if they were, the good outweighs the bad. There is too much good that you get out of being in a group like boyscouts, my step-brother is a fucking nerd introvert stupid fuck so he needs boyscouts to teach him some actual useful skills and get him out of his room and to stop play video games 24/7 and get some real social interaction.

HoboNinja said:

My step-brother is in boyscouts and it seems about the same as ever, I guess people hate them because they are "anti-gay". That might be like the policy up above or in other troops but the troop he's in I don't think really gives a shit. Plus even if they were, the good outweighs the bad. There is too much good that you get out of being in a group like boyscouts, my step-brother is a fucking nerd introvert stupid fuck so he needs boyscouts to teach him some actual useful skills and get him out of his room and to stop play video games 24/7 and get some real social interaction.

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It is the policy of the organization to be anti-gay. Some troops and leaders don't agree with those policies.

If you want, support the troops you agree with, not the organization as a whole.

At my organization, part of the requirements of your job is to work at two charitable functions per year. Not attending or taking part in two has a negative impact on your bonus (if applicable)

Man, Dave, that's unfair. :\

LSU does a lot with United Way every year. There are donation stations at every dorm.

I am definitely for employers offering a bonus to those who donate their time or something, but to essentially mandate that they give up so much money to organization X is fairly underhanded.

JONJONAUG;266619][quote=AshburnerX said:

Oddly enough, the Boy Scouts of America and their policy's were some of the factors leading to my development of Social Anxiety. Being trapped in a cabin with a bunch of older guys with no parental supervision (And one douchebag ex-friend who did nothing to stop them) for 2 days is what eventually broke me and turned me into Boo Radley for 9 years. To this day, I go out of my way to make sure I never support the Boy Scouts, Cub Scouts, or Girl Scouts of America. The fact that they've turned into an anti-gay hate group just makes me feel like I made the right decision.

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Man, that's not fair.[/QUOTE]

It may be unfair for me to hate the organization as a whole for the full on, 50's military school style physical and emotional abuse I suffered, but the simple fact is that the people in charge knew what was going on but refused to do anything because it would:

A.) Force them to expel members of an already floundering Troop.

B.) Cause a Scandal they couldn't afford because of some the shenanigans that were going on in the Simon Kenton Council at the time.

C.) Force the Troopmaster to accept his son was a sociopath/felon in the making (and considering how I'm told he's impregnated -two- different 15 year old girls at the ages of 18 and 22 respectively, I think I was right. Idiot only stayed out of jail because his dad paid off the families.)

I think I'm quite justified in my hatred of the Organization when they people who were supposed to prevent this from happening did nothing to stop it from happening again once I told them. They tried to place the blame on me, saying -I- must have done something to deserve the treatment. It wasn't till all of this happened that I was finally able to convince my parents to let me quit. From what I've gather from research on the net, this sort of thing happening isn't that uncommon but usually under reported.

I'm probably just being bitter at the Cub Scouts though... I have nothing but good memories of my time with them. This stuff didn't start until we had to create a Troop for the graduating Webelows 2s, of which I was part of.

Dave, that is pretty messed up. I try to stay away from those larger organizations for reasons people have already listed.

I'll donate to the Salvation Army when they have the bell ringers out. I give blood regularly. I give small but frequent donations and volunteer time to the Greyhound Rescue group where I got my dog. And Child's Play, because they don't pester me. The hospital writes a thank you note, which I file away for tax time, and that's it. As a result they'll be getting a greater amount this year.

My husband gets forced to donate every year. The incentive is that the command he is with will get some special award if they get over X amount of dollars in contributions.

When I was working in the casino industry I used to donate only because I could chose to direct my donation to a specific United Way charity. I gave my contribution to Girl Scouts every year since I had been both a Brownie and a Girl Scout.

JONJONAUG;266619][quote=AshburnerX said:

To this day, I go out of my way to make sure I never support the Boy Scouts, Cub Scouts, or Girl Scouts of America. The fact that they've turned into an anti-gay hate group just makes me feel like I made the right decision.

Click to expand...

Man, that's not fair.

The Boy Scouts was what KEPT me from becoming Boo Radley, in my case. It was pretty much the only social interaction I ever got with anyone because I was such a shut-in in my Middle/High school days...But compared to how I did with the social interaction the rest of the time and the times when I did get along with everyone just fine (which was a majority of the time, otherwise I wouldn't have stuck with it for as long as I did), this was pretty much the only thing keeping me from cracking and becoming a total shut-in crazy feller.

Playing cards, building fires, learning first aid, running from a gigantic bee swarm that some idiot stirred up by stepping on a bee's nest, working on community service projects, learning how to not freeze to death on winter campouts, getting up at 7AM and jumping in a freezing pool at summer camp, and selling popcorn in front of the local Blockbuster. All great times.

Plus the leaders were awesome. Taught me a whole bunch of great stuff, and the guy who was also my den leader in Cub Scouts is really high up there on my "adults who don't bullshit with you who are really, really deserving of respect" list.

I've heard plenty of horror tales from people, but I'm very happy to say that this never happened to me, and I've known people in other troops who got along just fine with the organization. Some of my fondest (read: ones I haven't blocked out to being boring, humiliating, or both) memories from childhood are with the Boy Scouts.[/QUOTE]

HoboNinja said:

My step-brother is in boyscouts and it seems about the same as ever, I guess people hate them because they are "anti-gay". That might be like the policy up above or in other troops but the troop he's in I don't think really gives a shit. Plus even if they were, the good outweighs the bad. There is too much good that you get out of being in a group like boyscouts, my step-brother is a fucking nerd introvert stupid fuck so he needs boyscouts to teach him some actual useful skills and get him out of his room and to stop play video games 24/7 and get some real social interaction.

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I have the exact same experience as JJAUG and our wise HoboNinja. In my case, I was also the total shut-in nerd throughout middle school and since I had been a Cub Scout (my dad was even den leader one year), my parents thought it wise to get me into Boy Scouts to hopefully derail any potential Boo Radley-ness. It absolutely worked. While I found the idiots at my high school to be moronic unthinking assholes/whores and loathed every single second I had to spend in that god-forsaken place, when I spent time with the Boy Scouts it was definitely fun.

Instead of fending for yourself in the vicious dog-eat-dog social world of high school, there was guidance and direction. Instead of floundering around like a lazy teen just wheedling away the hours in boredom or just slouched watching TV, I was out actually doing things. Instead of my only experience with socializing being incredibly horribly negative, I was interacting with people I had no need to fear and could actually relax with.

So Ash, the experience you had with the Boy Scouts I had with high school itself. The Boy Scouts were a way to get away from that shithole and not let it turn me into some pissed-off loner Columbine type. It sounds like you're letting your bad experience with a select few cloud your judgment of the organization as a whole; as for the rest of you who absolutely must take some kind of moral stand against the Boy Scouts for being "anti-gay", that's your prerogative but I truly question the morality of standing against a group that seeks to turn teens into upstanding young men as opposed to criminals, loners, or worse.

Qonas said:

as for the rest of you who absolutely must take some kind of moral stand against the Boy Scouts for being "anti-gay", that's your prerogative but I truly question the morality of standing against a group that seeks to turn teens into upstanding young men as opposed to criminals, loners, or worse.

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Bigotry is still bigotry, no matter what you wrap it in.

quandofloo;266963][quote=Qonas said:

as for the rest of you who absolutely must take some kind of moral stand against the Boy Scouts for being "anti-gay", that's your prerogative but I truly question the morality of standing against a group that seeks to turn teens into upstanding young men as opposed to criminals, loners, or worse.

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Bigotry is still bigotry, no matter what you wrap it in.[/QUOTE]

Exactly. It seems they aren't concerned with turning teens into upstanding citizens as much as they are concerned with turning THEIR OWN KIND into upstanding citizens. Instead of teaching kids to accept that people are different, they are actively showing these kids that the BSoA don't consider gay people to be equals. If they were truly community minded, they wouldn't turn away people based on sexual orientation.

hmm very strange, I've never heard of this 'forced charity'. I'm in canada and have heard of the "company x will get y if donations reach level z" things but still isn't forced on you by taking away pay from somewhere else.

Sadly it takes research to trust a charity organization but I recommend it before donating.

I donate (when I can) to local gay resource groups. I stay away from the salvation army as it is homophobic (personal experience and my own interviews with certain members of the organization where I am), though some people that work for them aren't.

As for boyscouts... I went through it, hated it. Sorry but it was lame ass male bonding ape driven horse shit. [Melodrama begin!] Learn to tie a rope jimmy so you can be a nautical sailor and rope those battleships when hitler comes! Learn to shoot a bow billy so you can kill that deer and drag it back to the fire for us all to feast! But mister leader where are all the girls? Oh don't worry jonny they are all at home where they should be. [aaaand scene]

I realize that is a narrow view of what it was (and god I hope it has changed) but that is what it amounted too for me. Perhaps the scope is better in the US but where I did my time in scouts was rather unfullfilling and useless.

Qonas said:

as for the rest of you who absolutely must take some kind of moral stand against the Boy Scouts for being "anti-gay", that's your prerogative but I truly question the morality of standing against a group that seeks to turn teens into upstanding young men as opposed to criminals, loners, or worse.

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Example:

There's an anti-black people kid's organization, but hey they teach the kids to do something useful and be kind to eachother and whatnot, just away from the negroes.

I stand against them. Is my morality questionable or is theirs?


EDIT: Pd: I'm tired and my English is awful, but I think you'll get what I mean.

quandofloo;266963][quote=Qonas said:

as for the rest of you who absolutely must take some kind of moral stand against the Boy Scouts for being "anti-gay", that's your prerogative but I truly question the morality of standing against a group that seeks to turn teens into upstanding young men as opposed to criminals, loners, or worse.

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Bigotry is still bigotry, no matter what you wrap it in.[/QUOTE]

Exactly. I can find other ways to teach my kid social acceptance and integration without also teaching him to be a bigot.

our work doesn't exactly "force" people to donate, but they do "hound" you until you fill out the form with something, but there is a goal we have to "meet" if we do, we get a pizza party.

At my old work, we weren't forced to give, but we got an extra vacation day if we did... which I never did because I hate the whole corporate charity extortion b.s. and it was so hard to get a day off scheduled anyway.

There is a large corporation that someone I know works for (I know it's dumb to be so vague about it but I get paranoid about it coming back to me, or especially that person), and they assign one sucker to run the whole corporate campaign for that region, meaning arranging fundraisers and hounding other people to fill out donation forms. This person is on salary, so he/she doesn't get paid any extra for doing it, and sometimes has to work on weekends or on his/her own time -- and of course, still has to donate a portion of his/her salary as well (in this person's case, it's $100 per month lumped once per year). If this person were to not comply, it wouldn't result in getting fired, but being put on a "list." Being on this "list" could hurt his/her chance at a promotion in the future. Sounds pretty much like extortion to me. It makes me so angry!

Regarding the boy scout thing, here's my two cents.

I'm an Eagle Scout. I totally second all the great things that have been said about taking loser nerds and turning them into upstanding young men. Yes, at the National level, they're anti-gay, and anti-atheist, but you know what?

Fuck National with a shovel.

National doesn't really have all that much power. If they want to say something, it doesn't matter in the slightest unless the scoutmasters choose to let it matter. You may remember that at the end of the Penn & Teller episode, they got back dozens of responses from scoutmasters saying, "Sure, we'd love to have your atheist kid in our troop!" So find out what local troops are in the area, and find out what their policies are. If the scoutmaster is of the opinion that (as mine were), "Look, as long as they don't run around flaunting their atheism/homosexuality, I don't care," consider giving your money. Plus, if you donate directly to the troop, ALL of your money stays local, and NONE of it goes to overhead.

Again: national doesn't matter. They don't have any real control over what happens at the level that the boys actually experience. While "The Boy Scouts of America" is a hate-promoting organization, Troop 50 out of Pine Shores Presbyterian probably isn't.

Zarvox said:

Regarding the boy scout thing, here's my two cents.

I'm an Eagle Scout. I totally second all the great things that have been said about taking loser nerds and turning them into upstanding young men. Yes, at the National level, they're anti-gay, and anti-atheist, but you know what?

Fuck National with a shovel.

National doesn't really have all that much power. If they want to say something, it doesn't matter in the slightest unless the scoutmasters choose to let it matter. You may remember that at the end of the Penn & Teller episode, they got back dozens of responses from scoutmasters saying, "Sure, we'd love to have your atheist kid in our troop!" So find out what local troops are in the area, and find out what their policies are. If the scoutmaster is of the opinion that (as mine were), "Look, as long as they don't run around flaunting their atheism/homosexuality, I don't care," consider giving your money. Plus, if you donate directly to the troop, ALL of your money stays local, and NONE of it goes to overhead.

Again: national doesn't matter. They don't have any real control over what happens at the level that the boys actually experience. While "The Boy Scouts of America" is a hate-promoting organization, Troop 50 out of Pine Shores Presbyterian probably isn't.

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Which is why I support on a troop by troop basis, not on the national level as United Way does.