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So this stories been around in the news and no one's talked about it yet:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/wor...attack-Trainer-Dawn-Brancheau-vulnerable.html

I feel really bad for Dawn Brancheauand her family, but they're called killer whales for a reason; not 'lick your face and roll over' whales. I really wish that the money that goes into parks like Sea World would go towards setting up sanctuary regulations, anti-whaling legislation, and research towards Orcas and Dolp...hins instead of cheap tricks and tiny tanks. I've always been against the captivity of large animals like elephants and whales. Especially for shit like circuses and Sea World shows.

But Sea World educates people about our friends in the world's oceans.

In this case, the lesson was that an Orca can whip your ass any day of the week.

And the fifth reason whales kill is for the sheer fun of it.

Fun Size said:

But Sea World educates people about our friends in the world's oceans.

In this case, the lesson was that an Orca can whip your ass any day of the week.

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Sea World can continue doing that without all the (pardon the pun) jumping through hoops. How much do people learn from watching whales jump and touch a ball with their nose? I'm in no way saying they should not take in injured or sick whales for brief time periods- possibly having public observations during these times. Hell, I think they'd make a ton of cash booking out tour ships to observe Orca's. But let's face it, Orcas and dolphins are smart animals, probably the smartest in the animal kingdom. There's enough data out there to say that they understand what their role is in these parks and they get pissed about it. Several experts have come up saying that Tilly's attack was premeditated.

---------- Post added at 03:29 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:28 PM ----------

hylian said:

And the fifth reason whales kill is for the sheer fun of it.

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It's true!

For full disclosure: I don't agree with what goes on in these places, it just fit the joke better.

Fun Size said:

For full disclosure: I don't agree with what goes on in these places, it just fit the joke better.

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I knew you were being sarcastic.

Excellent. Lately I have encountered those on these boards who have missed it. It's disconcerting.

But... but they get to swim around to cheesy music in front of a sappy video! Surely that makes it all worth it!

And I was there just this past Sunday.

Honestly, I don't mind the idea of caged animals. They lead a pretty damn good life. Yeah, they have to entertain, but it's like playtime for them. Otherwise, they're well kept, well-fed and well loved.

Unfortunately, they are STILL animals at heart. Who knew what was going through the killer whale's mind when it did what it did. My cat loves me and always sleeps beside me at night, but there are times he'll still take a clawed swat at me or try and bite me.

ThatNickGuy said:

And I was there just this past Sunday.

Honestly, I don't mind the idea of caged animals. They lead a pretty damn good life. Yeah, they have to entertain, but it's like playtime for them. Otherwise, they're well kept, well-fed and well loved.

Unfortunately, they are STILL animals at heart. Who knew what was going through the killer whale's mind when it did what it did. My cat loves me and always sleeps beside me at night, but there are times he'll still take a clawed swat at me or try and bite me.

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I'm sure the homeless feel the same way about jail.

It's always a shame when whales kill without a porpoise.

ThatNickGuy said:

And I was there just this past Sunday.

Honestly, I don't mind the idea of caged animals. They lead a pretty damn good life. Yeah, they have to entertain, but it's like playtime for them. Otherwise, they're well kept, well-fed and well loved.

Unfortunately, they are STILL animals at heart. Who knew what was going through the killer whale's mind when it did what it did. My cat loves me and always sleeps beside me at night, but there are times he'll still take a clawed swat at me or try and bite me.

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Actually, especially in the case of orcas and elephants, they're not happy. Both live and exist in extremely social groups. Even born in captivity, they need to socialize in ways that just can't be provided in a park/zoo setting. It's very much the equivalent of either taking a person away from their family and having them adjust to yours (Jaycee Dugard, anyone?), or take a newborn child and set them up to a isolated room giving them rewards for preforming tricks. Orcas aren't even close to the same level as keeping a reptile in an enclosure. Nor are most other mammals.

I'm all for education, wildlife preserves, and sanctuaries, but not cheap thrill tank and tiny pool gimmicks. Some animals just shouldn't be confined in an enclosure. Your cat is a horrible example by the way. Cats and dogs have been domesticated for thousands of years.

I feel bad for the employee's family and for all the people there that literally saw someone get dragged down to a horrible and painful death.

BlackCrossCrusader said:

I'm sure the homeless feel the same way about jail.

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That argument doesn't make sense. Homeless people have reason behind their actions. They are because life put them into a series of very unfortunate circumstances and they've gone to crime to survive.

Animals, on the other hand, work in means of instinct and survival.

The Lovely Boner said:

I feel bad for the employee's family and for all the people there that literally saw someone get dragged down to a horrible and painful death.

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If it was up to me, I'd shut down every single whale and dolphin show in the country.

---------- Post added at 04:22 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:21 PM ----------

ThatNickGuy;346751][QUOTE=BlackCrossCrusader said:

I'm sure the homeless feel the same way about jail.

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That argument doesn't make sense. Homeless people have reason behind their actions. They are because life put them into a series of very unfortunate circumstances and they've gone to crime to survive.

Animals, on the other hand, work in means of instinct and survival.[/QUOTE]

And people don't?

BlackCrossCrusader;346747][QUOTE=ThatNickGuy said:

And I was there just this past Sunday.

Honestly, I don't mind the idea of caged animals. They lead a pretty damn good life. Yeah, they have to entertain, but it's like playtime for them. Otherwise, they're well kept, well-fed and well loved.

Unfortunately, they are STILL animals at heart. Who knew what was going through the killer whale's mind when it did what it did. My cat loves me and always sleeps beside me at night, but there are times he'll still take a clawed swat at me or try and bite me.

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I'm sure the homeless feel the same way about jail.[/QUOTE]

That reminds me about the song from the Austin Lounge Lizards, Love in a Refrigerator Box. About a family that lives in...you guessed it. Mom would bring all the children to prison to see the inmates after the kids got into some trouble. The lesson was,

They were not happy
even though they lived so well.

Hey wow this is why you don't fuck around with wild animals

whoah

---------- Post added at 09:37 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:34 PM ----------

Also, I'm going to call bullshit on "these animals are happy and treated well it's playtime" until someone comes in with hard facts. Although admittedly I'm not beyond going to see cute animals at zoos, aquariums, etc, I'm not going to pretend that we're doing something good for them by slamming them into an enclosure and gawking at their artificial environment for entertainment.

See this movie before you spew the "parks are happy fun time" bullshit: http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1313104/

(is the IMDB widget broken?)

[IMDB]1313104[/IMDB]

ElJuski said:

Hey wow this is why you don't fuck around with wild animals

whoah

---------- Post added at 09:37 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:34 PM ----------

Also, I'm going to call bullshit on "these animals are happy and treated well it's playtime" until someone comes in with hard facts. Although admittedly I'm not beyond going to see cute animals at zoos, aquariums, etc, I'm not going to pretend that we're doing something good for them by slamming them into an enclosure and gawking at their artificial environment for entertainment.

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They're not happy. They're incredibly social animals that require being part of a pod as part of their development. Orcas, like dolphins and elephants, can plan shit out, coordinate intricate attack/ play patterns, hold grudges, get pissed off, be depressed etc... They most certainly do tricks and the like due to getting food for it. What do people learn from this though? Nothing. It's all cheap shit thrills.

Jake said:

See this movie before you spew the \\"parks are happy fun time\\" bullshit: http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1313104/

(is the IMDB widget broken?)

[IMDB]tt1313104[/IMDB]

Click to expand...

[IMDB]1313104[/IMDB]

Take out the tt.

I think you were looking for...

[IMDB]0076504[/IMDB]

Chazwozel said:

And people don't?

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Granted. But the motivation to kill isn't usually as animalistic. There's a reason or a motive.

Ugh, I'm not doing very good with explaining this. My point is that we don't know what set off the animal because it's an animal and we can't get into its head, interrogate it, etc.

Anyway, my ORIGINAL point is the fact that captive animals are treated well and as a result, live longer than they would in the wild. Most seem to enjoy the life, in fact. But they are still, at heart, wild animals, and prone to the whims of a wild animal.

I also don't think porpoises and whales should be in captivity. If they need to be protected, that's fine, but they're not here for our amusement.

I'd like to add that trophy hunt is also stupid. Killing animals for fun is just morbid.

ThatNickGuy;346828][QUOTE=Chazwozel said:

And people don't?

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Granted. But the motivation to kill isn't usually as animalistic. There's a reason or a motive.

Ugh, I'm not doing very good with explaining this. My point is that we don't know what set off the animal because it's an animal and we can't get into its head, interrogate it, etc.

Anyway, my ORIGINAL point is the fact that captive animals are treated well and as a result, live longer than they would in the wild. Most seem to enjoy the life, in fact. But they are still, at heart, wild animals, and prone to the whims of a wild animal.[/QUOTE]

That's subjective as to what you consider 'treated well'. Animals don't have a realization of death. A long life means nothing to them. 'Seem to enjoy the life' is more like 'tolerate the life'. There are several well documented behavioral changes to wild animals in captivity from pacing to swaying to staring at walls.


The only thing that stops a person from killing another is due to social conditioning. Take away the constraints of society and we'd behave similar to Chimpanzees and Gorillas.

I'm glad they're not killing the whale for this; probably partially because it represents income to them, but it doesn't deserve to die over that.

You know if it was a dog, it'd have been shot before we read the article.

Chazwozel said:

The only thing that stops a person from killing another is due to social conditioning. Take away the constraints of society and we'd behave similar to Chimpanzees and Gorillas.

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What are you talking about?! We already are, even if we consign it to specially trained personnel instead of hodge-podge gangs roaming the borders.

Mmmmm...

I went to double check on the fact that killer whales aren't whales in order to make a lame joke along the lines of "Well, at least the first half of their name is accurate." I'm not gonna bother with that, though, because in mhy double checking I learned that apparently Orcus isn't just an unimaginatively named D&D god of Orcs like I'd always thought, but was actually a Roman god of the Underworld. Huh.

Oh, I just noticed I made the lame joke anyway.

Say what you will about the ethics of keeping Orcas in captivity, it's damn impressive that humans can train and work with such large creatures safely [most of the time.]