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Lost Finale: Explained
#1
Calleja
Calleja
I found this from a site that said one of the writers actually wrote this in a forum... there's obviously no way of knowing if it's legit or not, but it's still a pretty nice view on the whole thing. (source:
http://lostmediamentions.blogspot.com/2010/05/someone-from-bad-robots-take-on-finale.html)
It's a bit on the longish side, so I decided to make a new thread instead of throwing this into the final season thread. (And, maybe, we'll have less frothing-at-the-mouth crazyness here)
Does reading this make things better for some of you?
http://lostmediamentions.blogspot.com/2010/05/someone-from-bad-robots-take-on-finale.html)
It's a bit on the longish side, so I decided to make a new thread instead of throwing this into the final season thread. (And, maybe, we'll have less frothing-at-the-mouth crazyness here)
See? That's exactly how I took it. I don't understand people who keep saying "I KNEW IT! I KNEW THEY WERE ALL DEAD SINCE SEASON 1"... the ISLAND was not purgatory. It wasn't, everything there happened.. it was just the last season's "flash-sideways" that was the afterlife.Good stuff on here! I can finally throw in my two cents! I've had to bite my tongue for far too long. Also, hopefully I can answer some of John's questions about Dharma and the "pointless breadcrumbs" that really, weren't so pointless ...
First ...
The Island:
It was real. Everything that happened on the island that we saw throughout the 6 seasons was real. Forget the final image of the plane crash, it was put in purposely to f*&k with people's heads and show how far the show had come. They really crashed. They really survived. They really discovered Dharma and the Others. The Island keeps the balance of good and evil in the world. It always has and always will perform that role. And the Island will always need a "Protector". Jacob wasn't the first, Hurley won't be the last. However, Jacob had to deal with a malevolent force (MIB) that his mother, nor Hurley had to deal with. He created the devil and had to find a way to kill him -- even though the rules prevented him from actually doing so.
Thus began Jacob's plan to bring candidates to the Island to do the one thing he couldn't do. Kill the MIB. He had a huge list of candidates that spanned generations. Yet everytime he brought people there, the MIB corrupted them and caused them to kill one another. That was until Richard came along and helped Jacob understand that if he didn't take a more active role, then his plan would never work.
Enter Dharma -- which I'm not sure why John is having such a hard time grasping. Dharma, like the countless scores of people that were brought to the island before, were brought there by Jacob as part of his plan to kill the MIB. However, the MIB was aware of this plan and interferred by "corrupting" Ben. Making Ben believe he was doing the work of Jacob when in reality he was doing the work of the MIB. This carried over into all of Ben's "off-island" activities. He was the leader. He spoke for Jacob as far as they were concerned. So the "Others" killed Dharma and later were actively trying to kill Jack, Kate, Sawyer, Hurley and all the candidates because that's what the MIB wanted. And what he couldn't do for himself.
Dharma was originally brought in to be good. But was turned bad by MIB's corruption and eventually destroyed by his pawn Ben. Now, was Dharma only brought there to help Jack and the other Canditates on their overall quest to kill Smokey? Or did Jacob have another list of Canidates from the Dharma group that we were never aware of? That's a question that is purposley not answered because whatever answer the writers came up with would be worse than the one you come up with for yourself. Still ... Dharma's purpose is not "pointless" or even vague. Hell, it's pretty blantent.
Still, despite his grand plan, Jacob wanted to give his "candidates" (our Lostaways) the one thing he, nor his brother, were ever afforded: free will. Hence him bringing a host of "candidates" through the decades and letting them "choose" which one would actually do the job in the end. Maybe he knew Jack would be the one to kill Flocke and that Hurley would be the protector in the end. Maybe he didn't. But that was always the key question of the show: Fate vs Free-will. Science vs Faith. Personally I think Jacob knew from the beginning what was going to happen and that everyone played a part over 6 seasons in helping Jack get to the point where he needed to be to kill Smokey and make Hurley the protector -- I know that's how a lot of the writers viewed it. But again, they won't answer that (nor should they) because that ruins the fun.
In the end, Jack got to do what he always wanted to do from the very first episode of the show: Save his fellow Lostaways. He got Kate and Sawyer off the island and he gave Hurley the purpose in life he'd always been missing. And, in Sideways world (which we'll get to next) he in fact saved everyone by helping them all move on ...
Now...
Sideways World:
Sideways world is where it gets really cool in terms of theology and metaphysical discussion (for me at least -- because I love history/religion theories and loved all the talks in the writer's room about it). Basically what the show is proposing is that we're all linked to certain people during our lives. Call them soulmates (though it's not exactly the best word). But these people we're linked to are with us duing "the most important moments of our lives" as Christian said. These are the people we move through the universe with from lifetime to lifetime. It's loosely based in Hinduisim with large doses of western religion thrown into the mix.
The conceit that the writers created, basing it off these religious philosophies, was that as a group, the Lostaways subconsciously created this "sideways" world where they exist in purgatory until they are "awakened" and find one another. Once they all find one another, they can then move on and move forward. In essence, this is the show's concept of the afterlife. According to the show, everyone creates their own "Sideways" purgatory with their "soulmates" throughout their lives and exist there until they all move on together. That's a beautiful notion. Even if you aren't religious or even spirtual, the idea that we live AND die together is deeply profound and moving.
It's a really cool and spirtual concept that fits the whole tone and subtext the show has had from the beginning. These people were SUPPOSED to be together on that plane. They were supposed to live through these events -- not JUST because of Jacob. But because that's what the universe or God (depending on how religious you wish to get) wanted to happen. The show was always about science vs faith -- and it ultimately came down on the side of faith. It answered THE core question of the series. The one question that has been at the root of every island mystery, every character backstory, every plot twist. That, by itself, is quite an accomplishment.
How much you want to extrapolate from that is up to you as the viewer. Think about season 1 when we first found the Hatch. Everyone thought that's THE answer! Whatever is down there is the answer! Then, as we discovered it was just one station of many. One link in a very long chain that kept revealing more, and more of a larger mosiac.
But the writer's took it even further this season by contrasting this Sideways "purgatory" with the Island itself. Remember when Michael appeared to Hurley, he said he was not allowed to leave the Island. Just like the MIB. He wasn't allowed into this sideways world and thus, was not afforded the opportunity to move on. Why? Because he had proven himself to be unworthy with his actions on the Island. He failed the test. The others, passed. They made it into Sideways world when they died -- some before Jack, some years later. In Hurley's case, maybe centuries later. They exist in this sideways world until they are "awakened" and they can only move on TOGETHER because they are linked. They are destined to be together for eternity. That was their destiny.
They were NOT linked to Anna Lucia, Daniel, Roussou, Alex, Miles, Lupidis, (and all the rest who weren't in the chuch -- basically everyone who wasn't in season 1). Yet those people exist in Sideways world. Why? Well again, here's where they leave it up to you to decide. The way I like to think about it, is that those people who were left behind in Sideways world have to find their own soulmates before they can wake up. It's possible that those links aren't people from the island but from their other life (Anna's parnter, the guy she shot --- Roussou's husband, etc etc).
A lot of people have been talking about Ben and why he didn't go into the Church. And if you think of Sideways world in this way, then it gives you the answer to that very question. Ben can't move on yet because he hasn't connected with the people he needs to. It's going to be his job to awaken Roussou, Alex, Anna Lucia (maybe), Ethan, Goodspeed, his father and the rest. He has to attone for his sins more than he did by being Hurley's number two. He has to do what Hurley and Desmond did for our Lostaways with his own people. He has to help them connect. And he can only move on when all the links in his chain are ready to. Same can be said for Faraday, Charlotte, Whidmore, Hawkins etc. It's really a neat, and cool concept. At least to me.
But, from a more "behind the scenes" note: the reason Ben's not in the church, and the reason no one is in the church but for Season 1 people is because they wrote the ending to the show after writing the pilot. And never changed it. The writers always said (and many didn't believe them) that they knew their ending from the very first episode. I applaud them for that. It's pretty fantastic. Originally Ben was supposed to have a 3 episode arc and be done. But he became a big part of the show. They could have easily changed their ending and put him in the church -- but instead they problem solved it. Gave him a BRILLIANT moment with Locke outside the church ... and then that was it. I loved that. For those that wonder -- the original ending started the moment Jack walked into the church and touches the casket to Jack closing his eyes as the other plane flies away. That was always JJ's ending. And they kept it.
For me the ending of this show means a lot. Not only because I worked on it, but because as a writer it inspired me in a way the medium had never done before. I've been inspired to write by great films. Maybe too many to count. And there have been amazing TV shows that I've loved (X-Files, 24, Sopranos, countless 1/2 hour shows). But none did what LOST did for me. None showed me that you could take huge risks (writing a show about faith for network TV) and stick to your creative guns and STILL please the audience. I learned a lot from the show as a writer. I learned even more from being around the incredible writers, producers, PAs, interns and everyone else who slaved on the show for 6 years.
In the end, for me, LOST was a touchstone show that dealt with faith, the afterlife, and all these big, spirtual questions that most shows don't touch. And to me, they never once waivered from their core story -- even with all the sci-fi elements they mixed in. To walk that long and daunting of a creative tightrope and survive is simply astounding.
Does reading this make things better for some of you?
#2
The Lovely Boehner
The Lovely Boehner
That is all bullshit.
This is even MORE absurdly wrong because if that was how they wrote it after the pilot, then where were Walt and Michael? and why the fuck were Desmond and Penny there? How could anyone believe this is real?
This is completely false. Carlton and Cuse have said on a billion occasions they didn't do anything towards the endgame until they got the end-date.But, from a more "behind the scenes" note: the reason Ben's not in the church, and the reason no one is in the church but for Season 1 people is because they wrote the ending to the show after writing the pilot. And never changed it. The writers always said (and many didn't believe them) that they knew their ending from the very first episode.
This is even MORE absurdly wrong because if that was how they wrote it after the pilot, then where were Walt and Michael? and why the fuck were Desmond and Penny there? How could anyone believe this is real?
#3
Calleja
Calleja
What?!
No, sorry, you have your info wrong. They've been saying NONSTOP that they knew what the ending was since day 1. That it was just the last sequence that JJ left for them to use makes perfect sense. Seriously, watch the Kimmel special... the whole premise of the "alternate endings" sketch was that, that they knew they claimed they knew the ending since the beginning.
No, sorry, you have your info wrong. They've been saying NONSTOP that they knew what the ending was since day 1. That it was just the last sequence that JJ left for them to use makes perfect sense. Seriously, watch the Kimmel special... the whole premise of the "alternate endings" sketch was that, that they knew they claimed they knew the ending since the beginning.
#4
Rubicon
Rubicon
That still does nothing to answer the 250+ UNANSWERED questions ( http://lostmysteries.blogspot.com/search/label/Major )
75+ of which are MAJOR unanswered questions that make absolutely no sense and were never addressed in Season 6 or the finale. Fuck even some brought up IN the finale.
Who created the rock "cork" that was in the tunnel of the Light? Why did the "cork" have egyptian writing on it? Why did the Light tunnel look man-made, i.e. it had smoothed over stones, carved rocks, etc? What is underneath the "cork" that makes the Island go apeshit if the "cork" is removed and the water / light drains out?
And on and on and on.
I'm sorry there is no way you can dance around it dude, the writers dropped the ball. They gave us an explaination of the Sideways Universe, what happens AFTER all the shit on the Island is over, the fate of the entire cast many many years down the road (they all get into the afterlife minus Ben a few others they left out). Thats great and all but that still does absolutely nothing to answer 6 years of questions.
You can say the show is about characters. Thats fine you are entitled to that opinion. I never watched Lost for characters. Some were cool, yes. (I <3 Ecko, Charlie, Desmond, Faraday, etc).
But I watched Lost for polar bears in a jungle. A monster made of smoke. A colonial spanish ship in the middle of a jungle. A statue foot. The numbers. The button. The hatch. Sharks with Dharma logos on them. Dharma itself. Time traveling bunnies. Frozen Donkey Wheels, electromagnetic fences, random cabins in the woods inhabited by ghosts (at the time at least, remember how spooky that shit was when Jacob said "help me"?).
I watched Lost for a concert of science fiction / fantasy / semi-religious cool shit happening on a random Island in the middle of bumfuck no where, and how the people who crashed there have to deal with it and survive.
And yes, I as disappointed. Severely. This, ending, sucked.
75+ of which are MAJOR unanswered questions that make absolutely no sense and were never addressed in Season 6 or the finale. Fuck even some brought up IN the finale.
Who created the rock "cork" that was in the tunnel of the Light? Why did the "cork" have egyptian writing on it? Why did the Light tunnel look man-made, i.e. it had smoothed over stones, carved rocks, etc? What is underneath the "cork" that makes the Island go apeshit if the "cork" is removed and the water / light drains out?
And on and on and on.
I'm sorry there is no way you can dance around it dude, the writers dropped the ball. They gave us an explaination of the Sideways Universe, what happens AFTER all the shit on the Island is over, the fate of the entire cast many many years down the road (they all get into the afterlife minus Ben a few others they left out). Thats great and all but that still does absolutely nothing to answer 6 years of questions.
You can say the show is about characters. Thats fine you are entitled to that opinion. I never watched Lost for characters. Some were cool, yes. (I <3 Ecko, Charlie, Desmond, Faraday, etc).
But I watched Lost for polar bears in a jungle. A monster made of smoke. A colonial spanish ship in the middle of a jungle. A statue foot. The numbers. The button. The hatch. Sharks with Dharma logos on them. Dharma itself. Time traveling bunnies. Frozen Donkey Wheels, electromagnetic fences, random cabins in the woods inhabited by ghosts (at the time at least, remember how spooky that shit was when Jacob said "help me"?).
I watched Lost for a concert of science fiction / fantasy / semi-religious cool shit happening on a random Island in the middle of bumfuck no where, and how the people who crashed there have to deal with it and survive.
And yes, I as disappointed. Severely. This, ending, sucked.
#5
MindDetective
Also, Mav, learn to live with some ambiguity. You don't know all the answers in your own life. It seems perfectly reasonable that you couldn't understand everything from an entire group's interactions either.
MindDetective
Michael was mentioned in that explanation. I'm not saying I buy it, of course. It seems to me that social networks are vast...absolutely, perhaps, such that you would need a unique group of "soulmates" for each individual that overlapped with another individual's, which overlapped with another individual's, to infinity. There's no reasonable way to ascertain the "boundary" of one's "soulmate" group, really. That doesn't mean the producers of the show did not posit this, just that it is a pretty flawed proposition.This is even MORE absurdly wrong because if that was how they wrote it after the pilot, then where were Walt and Michael? and why the fuck were Desmond and Penny there? How could anyone believe this is real?
Also, Mav, learn to live with some ambiguity. You don't know all the answers in your own life. It seems perfectly reasonable that you couldn't understand everything from an entire group's interactions either.
#6
Calleja
Calleja
Mav missed the entire point of Lost. He's literally raving about it now, it's futile to try and change his mind. Let's try and ignore his rants or this thread will again veer dangerously close to rule-breaking territory.
#7
Frankie Williamson
Frankie Williamson
You watched the show for all the wrong God damn reasons Mav. I think this has been assured to you by just about everyone by now, but every time you post, you make this abundantly clear.
#8
The Lovely Boehner
The Lovely Boehner
It's not against the rules to call his arguments and anger completely absurd. And his idea of the website where they rewrite Lost the way they think it should have happened is the definition of pedantic, and I can't wait for it since it will produce some entertainingly bad and laughable writing.
#9
Calleja
Calleja
no, see, that's what makes this begin to simmer into the foundations of a flame war.
So let's just.. ignore mav and discuss the Lost awesomeness (or lack thereof)
So let's just.. ignore mav and discuss the Lost awesomeness (or lack thereof)
#10
Element 117
Element 117
I love how a television show captures and enthralls the minds of the same species that can launch itself into space, and get these same minds all bothered because the story telling did or did not fit their flavor. Humans are crazy weird.
#11
Chazwozel
Chazwozel
I'm pretty sure the whole point of Lost just flew over your head...That still does nothing to answer the 250+ UNANSWERED questions ( http://lostmysteries.blogspot.com/search/label/Major )
75+ of which are MAJOR unanswered questions that make absolutely no sense and were never addressed in Season 6 or the finale. Fuck even some brought up IN the finale.
Who created the rock "cork" that was in the tunnel of the Light? Why did the "cork" have egyptian writing on it? Why did the Light tunnel look man-made, i.e. it had smoothed over stones, carved rocks, etc? What is underneath the "cork" that makes the Island go apeshit if the "cork" is removed and the water / light drains out?
And on and on and on.
I'm sorry there is no way you can dance around it dude, the writers dropped the ball. They gave us an explaination of the Sideways Universe, what happens AFTER all the shit on the Island is over, the fate of the entire cast many many years down the road (they all get into the afterlife minus Ben a few others they left out). Thats great and all but that still does absolutely nothing to answer 6 years of questions.
You can say the show is about characters. Thats fine you are entitled to that opinion. I never watched Lost for characters. Some were cool, yes. (I <3 Ecko, Charlie, Desmond, Faraday, etc).
But I watched Lost for polar bears in a jungle. A monster made of smoke. A colonial spanish ship in the middle of a jungle. A statue foot. The numbers. The button. The hatch. Sharks with Dharma logos on them. Dharma itself. Time traveling bunnies. Frozen Donkey Wheels, electromagnetic fences, random cabins in the woods inhabited by ghosts (at the time at least, remember how spooky that shit was when Jacob said "help me"?).
I watched Lost for a concert of science fiction / fantasy / semi-religious cool shit happening on a random Island in the middle of bumfuck no where, and how the people who crashed there have to deal with it and survive.
And yes, I as disappointed. Severely. This, ending, sucked.
#12
Calleja
Calleja
It'd be awesome if you could ban specific individuals from specific threads. We'd be in page 3 of interesting, thought-provoking Lost musings by now if it weren't for Mav :humph:
#13
The Lovely Boehner
The Lovely Boehner
I can't find anything in print either way, but I still really call bullshit on that "writer" and the idea that the church scene was written after the pilot. I'm not one of those people mad that they made it up as they went, that doesn't bother me at all. The creative ways they got around that sort of stuff were awesome for me, and I admire the heck out of it. You are not going to convince me that after the pilot they already knew Michael would murder people and his soul would get trapped on the island, or that they already completely created Desmond Hume and Penny Widmore. And wait, if Michael's soul is trapped and all, why is Walt punished and he's not there with everyone in the church/moving on thing?
Other than that, the rest of it just reads as what everyone is throwing around in message boards already. The part with Ben and the 3 episode arc is really old news, I heard that months ago. Anyone with half a brain could have written that.
Other than that, the rest of it just reads as what everyone is throwing around in message boards already. The part with Ben and the 3 episode arc is really old news, I heard that months ago. Anyone with half a brain could have written that.
#14
Shakey
Anyways, nothing new is explained in that posting. It's just a recap of everything we already know.
Shakey
I doubt it.It'd be awesome if you could ban specific individuals from specific threads. We'd be in page 3 of interesting, thought-provoking Lost musings by now if it weren't for Mav :humph:
Anyways, nothing new is explained in that posting. It's just a recap of everything we already know.
#15
Calleja
Calleja
Have you guys been reading the same stuff as I have?
People are NOT getting what I posted... at ALL.. you wouldn't believe how many people are screaming "I KNEW IT! THEY WERE DEAD ALL ALONG!" all over the god damned intertubes.
People are NOT getting what I posted... at ALL.. you wouldn't believe how many people are screaming "I KNEW IT! THEY WERE DEAD ALL ALONG!" all over the god damned intertubes.
#16
drawn_inward
drawn_inward
I thought the finale was okay. I didn't hate it or love it. That's pretty much how I felt about the show. I'm glad they ended it, and tied everything up. I wish it would have been a bit sooner.
I was hoping for more of a happy ending with them all living out their respective lives in sideways-verse with their awakenings and bonds. That sounded cool to me.
Only the Jin/Sun relationship affected me emotionally. I don't know why theirs seemed the most real to me. I guess b/c theirs wasn't fraught with triangles and other silliness.
Still finales are tricky business. Few get it right. I really liked ST-TNG and Quantum Leaps endings a lot.
I was hoping for more of a happy ending with them all living out their respective lives in sideways-verse with their awakenings and bonds. That sounded cool to me.
Only the Jin/Sun relationship affected me emotionally. I don't know why theirs seemed the most real to me. I guess b/c theirs wasn't fraught with triangles and other silliness.
Still finales are tricky business. Few get it right. I really liked ST-TNG and Quantum Leaps endings a lot.
#17
Calleja
Calleja
For some reason it was the Sayid/Shannon moment that most got to me. I got goosebumps when I first saw her, and for some reason some mighty winds picked up at my house when they were kissing, cause I got lots of stuff get into my eyes... 
aranoid:
aranoid:
#18
drawn_inward
drawn_inward
I didn't even remember those 2 were together. I was surprised by that.For some reason it was the Sayid/Shannon moment that most got to me. I got goosebumps when I first saw her, and for some reason some mighty winds picked up at my house when they were kissing, cause I got lots of stuff get into my eyes...
#19
Calleja
Calleja
The charlie/claire flashback was pretty powerful too... the whole peanut butter thing hit me in the face like a giant black smoke fist.
#20
Reboneer
Edit: Also, people like Mav are the reason we have midichlorians.
Reboneer
Wait, do people seriously think this?See? That's exactly how I took it. I don't understand people who keep saying "I KNEW IT! I KNEW THEY WERE ALL DEAD SINCE SEASON 1"
Edit: Also, people like Mav are the reason we have midichlorians.
#21
drawn_inward
Edit: Also, people like Mav are the reason we have midichlorians.[/QUOTE]
That was a theory that I heard thrown around from time to time. I also heard that they were all figments of the imagination of Hurley's gf, or it was all a dream.
drawn_inward
Wait, do people seriously think this?See? That's exactly how I took it. I don't understand people who keep saying "I KNEW IT! I KNEW THEY WERE ALL DEAD SINCE SEASON 1"
Edit: Also, people like Mav are the reason we have midichlorians.[/QUOTE]
That was a theory that I heard thrown around from time to time. I also heard that they were all figments of the imagination of Hurley's gf, or it was all a dream.
#22
Reboneer
Reboneer
I know that was a common theory in the earlier seasons, but did people seriously watch the finale and conclude that the whole cast was dead and the entire show had taken place in purgatory?That was a theory that I heard thrown around from time to time. I also heard that they were all figments of the imagination of Hurley's gf, or it was all a dream.
#23
Shakey
My guess is anyone that says that is simply trolling. Seems like they've got a few people worked up too.
Shakey
I know that was a common theory in the earlier seasons, but did people seriously watch the finale and conclude that the whole cast was dead and the entire show had taken place in purgatory?[/QUOTE]That was a theory that I heard thrown around from time to time. I also heard that they were all figments of the imagination of Hurley's gf, or it was all a dream.
My guess is anyone that says that is simply trolling. Seems like they've got a few people worked up too.
#24
drawn_inward
No, that would be an odd claim.
drawn_inward
I know that was a common theory in the earlier seasons, but did people seriously watch the finale and conclude that the whole cast was dead and the entire show had taken place in purgatory?[/QUOTE]That was a theory that I heard thrown around from time to time. I also heard that they were all figments of the imagination of Hurley's gf, or it was all a dream.
No, that would be an odd claim.
#25
Rubicon
Rubicon
Ok answer me this.
If I am so entirely fucking wrong about Lost, how come there are THOUSANDS of other fans across the Internet, across the entire globe, that agree with me?
Read DarkUfo, read 4815162342.com, read AintItCoolNew's forums/talkback, read the fucking New York Times. I am not disputing your opinion but you have to at least fucking admit, there are a fuck ton of people out there that agree with me.
If it was just a handful of the fanbase, ok sure I could understand me being completely out of my mind and missing the point of the show. But when there are this many people who think the same thing I do, how can all of us be wrong?
I just wanted answers. Thats all, some simple answers. Pose a question, give an answer. I've never blindly followed a tv show and been so let down. Never.
So, do your worst. Flame, belittle me, whatever makes ya happy, go for it. I'm sure Chaz will jump in any second, the shark avatar and all can probably smell the blood in the water, so to speak.
If I am so entirely fucking wrong about Lost, how come there are THOUSANDS of other fans across the Internet, across the entire globe, that agree with me?
Read DarkUfo, read 4815162342.com, read AintItCoolNew's forums/talkback, read the fucking New York Times. I am not disputing your opinion but you have to at least fucking admit, there are a fuck ton of people out there that agree with me.
If it was just a handful of the fanbase, ok sure I could understand me being completely out of my mind and missing the point of the show. But when there are this many people who think the same thing I do, how can all of us be wrong?
I just wanted answers. Thats all, some simple answers. Pose a question, give an answer. I've never blindly followed a tv show and been so let down. Never.
So, do your worst. Flame, belittle me, whatever makes ya happy, go for it. I'm sure Chaz will jump in any second, the shark avatar and all can probably smell the blood in the water, so to speak.
#26
sixpackshaker
sixpackshaker
13.5 million watched the finale, if 1% are pissed, that will still be a fuck ton of people.
#27
SpecialKO
SpecialKO
That's not exactly convincing when the viewership of the show was in the millions.If I am so entirely fucking wrong about Lost, how come there are THOUSANDS of other fans across the Internet, across the entire globe, that agree with me?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argumentum_ad_populum. Not saying you're wrong, but you're really failing to make the case, here.Read DarkUfo, read 4815162342.com, read AintItCoolNew's forums/talkback, read the fucking New York Times. I am not disputing your opinion but you have to at least fucking admit, there are a fuck ton of people out there that agree with me.
If it was just a handful of the fanbase, ok sure I could understand me being completely out of my mind and missing the point of the show. But when there are this many people who think the same thing I do, how can all of us be wrong?
#28
Shakey
Shakey
I don't think your opinion is wrong. The problem is, the show was never about answering the big mysteries of the island, so you were set up to be disappointed from the beginning. The writers have been saying for a long time the show wasn't about the mysteries of the island, but the characters that crashed on it.
#29
Calleja
I linked you this already in the other thread, but I guess you need more than that:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argumentum_ad_populum
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argumentum_ad_populum
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argumentum_ad_populum
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argumentum_ad_populum
or do you need it 108 times?
Calleja
Goddamit.Ok answer me this.
If I am so entirely fucking wrong about Lost, how come there are THOUSANDS of other fans across the Internet, across the entire globe, that agree with me?
Read DarkUfo, read 4815162342.com, read AintItCoolNew's forums/talkback, read the fucking New York Times. I am not disputing your opinion but you have to at least fucking admit, there are a fuck ton of people out there that agree with me.
If it was just a handful of the fanbase, ok sure I could understand me being completely out of my mind and missing the point of the show. But when there are this many people who think the same thing I do, how can all of us be wrong?
I just wanted answers. Thats all, some simple answers. Pose a question, give an answer. I've never blindly followed a tv show and been so let down. Never.
So, do your worst. Flame, belittle me, whatever makes ya happy, go for it. I'm sure Chaz will jump in any second, the shark avatar and all can probably smell the blood in the water, so to speak.
I linked you this already in the other thread, but I guess you need more than that:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argumentum_ad_populum
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argumentum_ad_populum
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argumentum_ad_populum
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argumentum_ad_populum
or do you need it 108 times?
#30
Rubicon
Rubicon
You get my point. Though, theres no purpose to it, you guys will think what you want, i'll think what i want.
The difference being, I don't flame others for their opinion of the show, I can be the bigger man and let people have opinions, without resorting to insults over it.
The difference being, I don't flame others for their opinion of the show, I can be the bigger man and let people have opinions, without resorting to insults over it.
#31
KCWM
KCWM
Even if that long explanation isn't from one of the writers, it sums up my impression of the series given the context of the 6th season. I was looking for a way to describe it and that did the job for me.
Michael wasn't there because he failed the test on the island. The island wouldn't let him move on. This was explained that during the 6th season. Why wasn't Walt there? My guess is that Walt didn't have the connection with those people...Walt made his own connections in life, each stronger than any connection he had with any of that group. Why was Desmond there? Because Desmond was the catalyst to their reunion, he was the one that was special. People cared about Desmond, thus, he was connected to them. Penny was there because of Desmond. I made that up while typing, so I'm sure professional writers/creators of that show have a much better reason, no?
Lost was always a show about the characters first...the flashbacks are proof of this. To ignore that for the sake of wanting answers proves that you never grasped what the show was about according to the people that created/wrote it. This trumps your opinion of what the show should have been about. There's no "should" in the equation. The show was about what the writers made it.
I wouldn't be surprised if we didn't see something come out that did explain the mysteries of the island. After all, Lost is a money maker and many would likely buy it, be it a book or dvd/blu-ray release...similar to what JK Rowling has talked about doing with the Harry Potter universe. Maybe it will be in the boxed set...maybe it will be separate. Or, maybe we won't get anything at all.
The Lost finale goes down as one of the best in the last decade. IMHO, YMMV.
Michael wasn't there because he failed the test on the island. The island wouldn't let him move on. This was explained that during the 6th season. Why wasn't Walt there? My guess is that Walt didn't have the connection with those people...Walt made his own connections in life, each stronger than any connection he had with any of that group. Why was Desmond there? Because Desmond was the catalyst to their reunion, he was the one that was special. People cared about Desmond, thus, he was connected to them. Penny was there because of Desmond. I made that up while typing, so I'm sure professional writers/creators of that show have a much better reason, no?
Lost was always a show about the characters first...the flashbacks are proof of this. To ignore that for the sake of wanting answers proves that you never grasped what the show was about according to the people that created/wrote it. This trumps your opinion of what the show should have been about. There's no "should" in the equation. The show was about what the writers made it.
I wouldn't be surprised if we didn't see something come out that did explain the mysteries of the island. After all, Lost is a money maker and many would likely buy it, be it a book or dvd/blu-ray release...similar to what JK Rowling has talked about doing with the Harry Potter universe. Maybe it will be in the boxed set...maybe it will be separate. Or, maybe we won't get anything at all.
The Lost finale goes down as one of the best in the last decade. IMHO, YMMV.
#32
SpecialKO
I really don't know why people are so desperate for answers to things that really weren't as important as they thought. Remembering the X-files, or Alias, I was really worried about what answers we would get. Thankfully, the left alone the stuff that didn't need to actually be addressed.
SpecialKO
I don't quite agree with this idea. I think media in general is open to interpretation, but it's important to note whether the creators have been successful in communicating the ideas that they wanted to. Thus far, despite a vocal minority, it seems like they probably have, and that is something that really does trump a lot of the complaints.To ignore that for the sake of wanting answers proves that you never grasped what the show was about according to the people that created/wrote it. This trumps your opinion of what the show should have been about.
That is unquestionably the case.The show was about what the writers made it.
I really don't know why people are so desperate for answers to things that really weren't as important as they thought. Remembering the X-files, or Alias, I was really worried about what answers we would get. Thankfully, the left alone the stuff that didn't need to actually be addressed.
I think I may want to re-watch it in a week or so before making that claim, but I very much enjoyed it.The Lost finale goes down as one of the best in the last decade. IMHO, YMMV.
#33
Calleja
Calleja
NO!! YOU ARE WRONG!!! I DON'T KNOW WHY THE GIAN STATUE HAD 4 TOES, THE SHOW SUCKS BALLS AND I'M GOING TO BURN ALL MY DVDS!!!!!1111!!1
#34
Hailey Knight
If Mex is so entirely fucking wrong about Lost, how come there are THOUSANDS of other fans across the Internet, across the entire globe, that agree with him?
As I said in the other thread, I never watched the show, but that argument means jack shit.
Hailey Knight
Okay, answer me this.Ok answer me this.
If I am so entirely fucking wrong about Lost, how come there are THOUSANDS of other fans across the Internet, across the entire globe, that agree with me?
If Mex is so entirely fucking wrong about Lost, how come there are THOUSANDS of other fans across the Internet, across the entire globe, that agree with him?
As I said in the other thread, I never watched the show, but that argument means jack shit.
#35
Allen, who is Quiet
Allen, who is Quiet
thisNO!! YOU ARE WRONG!!! I DON'T KNOW WHY THE GIAN STATUE HAD 4 TOES, THE SHOW SUCKS BALLS AND I'M GOING TO BURN ALL MY DVDS!!!!!1111!!1
#36
Rubicon
Rubicon
Game. Set. Match. Thanks for proving my point even further dude. Always count on you coming through in a pinch.NO!! YOU ARE WRONG!!! I DON'T KNOW WHY THE GIAN STATUE HAD 4 TOES, THE SHOW SUCKS BALLS AND I'M GOING TO BURN ALL MY DVDS!!!!!1111!!1
#37
Bowielee
Bowielee
As lothe as I am to defend Mav, you guys are really just ganging up on the guy who has a different interpretation than you do.
#38
Calleja
Calleja
Hey, I tried to move to a new thread to avoid precisely that... but Mav can't have people enjoying the finale, noo, he has to explain why it's the worst finale in the history of ever. In several paragraphs. In several posts. Across two threads.
#39
Bowielee
It kind of makes you look like a douche.
Bowielee
So, Mav isn't allowed to post? He's already tried to say, "hey, this is my opinion on it, and it's just different than yours" and you're the one who keeps bringing him up.Hey, I tried to move to a new thread to avoid precisely that... but Mav can't have people enjoying the finale, noo, he has to explain why it's the worst finale in the history of ever. In several paragraphs. In several posts. Across two threads.
It kind of makes you look like a douche.
#40
Reboneer
How does that prove your point?
Reboneer
Game. Set. Match. Thanks for proving my point even further dude. Always count on you coming through in a pinch.[/QUOTE]NO!! YOU ARE WRONG!!! I DON'T KNOW WHY THE GIAN STATUE HAD 4 TOES, THE SHOW SUCKS BALLS AND I'M GOING TO BURN ALL MY DVDS!!!!!1111!!1
How does that prove your point?
#41
Calleja
It kind of makes you look like a douche.[/QUOTE]
I guess I'll have to admit that Mav brings out the inner douche in me.... I still tried to avoid this, though.
Calleja
So, Mav isn't allowed to post? He's already tried to say, "hey, this is my opinion on it, and it's just different than yours" and you're the one who keeps bringing him up.Hey, I tried to move to a new thread to avoid precisely that... but Mav can't have people enjoying the finale, noo, he has to explain why it's the worst finale in the history of ever. In several paragraphs. In several posts. Across two threads.
It kind of makes you look like a douche.[/QUOTE]
I guess I'll have to admit that Mav brings out the inner douche in me.... I still tried to avoid this, though.
#42
sixpackshaker
sixpackshaker
I don't have anything against Mav, He asked why there are thousands that agree with him, and people who disagree try to answer.
For the episodes of Lost that I did watch, it was always a well done show. Then some one comes out saying that it was the worst show ever, and everyone on the net agrees. That is basically just stirring the pot.
For the episodes of Lost that I did watch, it was always a well done show. Then some one comes out saying that it was the worst show ever, and everyone on the net agrees. That is basically just stirring the pot.
#43
SpecialKO
SpecialKO
Exactly. I get that Mav is a little excitable, and Mex is a bit confrontational, but Mav did come out swinging in the last thread pretty much immediately with profanity and "everyone agrees with me". The whole purpose of that kind of argument is to imply that the ones who don't agree with you are stupid. While he started out better in this thread, it pretty much turned into the same thing. Is it any wonder that people jumped all over him?Then some one comes out saying that it was the worst show ever, and everyone on the net agrees. That is basically just stirring the pot.
#44
Joe Johnson
Joe Johnson
For me, it was quite apparent that they probably wouldn't be answering all the questions once the sixth season started. I certainly knew, by the time the finale was going to air, that there was no WAY they'd be able to in a two and a half hour show.
So, in other words, I wasn't disappointed by the finale from that stand point. To me, it seemed like Lost was about both the characters AND the mysteries in the first 3, maybe 4 seasons. After that, they really shifted focus to just the characters. That's OK, I guess. But, I have to admit, for the people who got hooked into the show by the mysteries as WELL as the characters, it sucks to have had the weird, mystery vibe of the show completely pulled away, and have it move to more of a purely character based show.
There's nothing wrong with a story being both about the characters AND the mysteries. Stories do it all the time, and are able to tie things up. Look at the "Sixth Sense". Now, yes, it's probably a lot harder to pull that off in a six season show. But, starting with season 4 they knew it was going to end after the 6th. Why not start wrapping things up then?
I don't know, like I said in the other thread, I"m pretty "meh" about the finale, and thought the sixth season was pretty lacking. But, again, none of that can take away from the fact that the first few seasons were frickin' awesome TV.
So, in other words, I wasn't disappointed by the finale from that stand point. To me, it seemed like Lost was about both the characters AND the mysteries in the first 3, maybe 4 seasons. After that, they really shifted focus to just the characters. That's OK, I guess. But, I have to admit, for the people who got hooked into the show by the mysteries as WELL as the characters, it sucks to have had the weird, mystery vibe of the show completely pulled away, and have it move to more of a purely character based show.
There's nothing wrong with a story being both about the characters AND the mysteries. Stories do it all the time, and are able to tie things up. Look at the "Sixth Sense". Now, yes, it's probably a lot harder to pull that off in a six season show. But, starting with season 4 they knew it was going to end after the 6th. Why not start wrapping things up then?
I don't know, like I said in the other thread, I"m pretty "meh" about the finale, and thought the sixth season was pretty lacking. But, again, none of that can take away from the fact that the first few seasons were frickin' awesome TV.
#45
Covar
Covar
I seem to recall Lost being all about the questions of the Island when the show was starting. I also recall the creators putting stuff like the Dharma logo on the shark just to fuck with people.
Claiming the show was never about nor marketed to be about the mystery of the island is like claiming M*A*S*H was about the Korean War.
Claiming the show was never about nor marketed to be about the mystery of the island is like claiming M*A*S*H was about the Korean War.
#46
Calleja
The mysteries were the hook, of course, it's called a PLOT. But the main premise, what the show was "all about" was always the characters.
Calleja
The show was ALWAYS about the characters. You can see that by WATCHING THE SHOW. What was the show's main narrative strategy? flash backs/forwards/sideways. Were these flashes about the mysteries of the island? NOOOO they were about the CHARACTERS.. their back stories, their interactions, their meeting of each other.. their family, their job, their friends.I seem to recall Lost being all about the questions of the Island when the show was starting. I also recall the creators putting stuff like the Dharma logo on the shark just to fuck with people.
Claiming the show was never about nor marketed to be about the mystery of the island is like claiming M*A*S*H was about the Korean War.
The mysteries were the hook, of course, it's called a PLOT. But the main premise, what the show was "all about" was always the characters.
#47
Joe Johnson
Joe Johnson
I still think that's a bit of a cop-out. You can say that about ANY show/story/etc, really.
They really DID promote the first few seasons pretty heavily about the "mysteries".
They really DID promote the first few seasons pretty heavily about the "mysteries".
#48
Soliloquy
Soliloquy
In the medieval ages, brave warriors headed to the battlefield to fight for the honor of their Lord.
In the modern ages, brave posters headed to the internet to fight for the honor of their favorite TV shows.
Progress is an... interesting thing.
In the modern ages, brave posters headed to the internet to fight for the honor of their favorite TV shows.
Progress is an... interesting thing.
#49
Joe Johnson
Joe Johnson
What, you don't think they argued about the bullshit acts that the jesters, mummers, and troubadours were putting on?
And, I never said I was brave.
And, I never said I was brave.
#50
Soliloquy
Heck, I heard an anecdote about how regular attendees of Shakespeare's Globe Theatre would occasionally attack attendees of the Marlowe's Rose Theatre when they left after a play, and vis-versa. So at very least it happened during the Renaissance.
And you are brave, Joe. You are the bravest of us all.
Soliloquy
Huh. Good point.What, you don't think they argued about the bullshit acts that the jesters, mummers, and troubadours were putting on?
And, I never said I was brave.
Heck, I heard an anecdote about how regular attendees of Shakespeare's Globe Theatre would occasionally attack attendees of the Marlowe's Rose Theatre when they left after a play, and vis-versa. So at very least it happened during the Renaissance.
And you are brave, Joe. You are the bravest of us all.
#51
Reboneer
Reboneer
And to be fair, most of those mysteries were solved.I still think that's a bit of a cop-out. You can say that about ANY show/story/etc, really.
They really DID promote the first few seasons pretty heavily about the "mysteries".
#52
Espy
Espy
Well sure, but only the ones that actually mattered.And do be fair, most of those mysteries were solved.
#53
Calleja
Calleja
Wait, the four fingered foot doesn't matter?!
#54
Espy
Espy
To be fair, I think there are some that they probably could have done better on or told us more but come on, thats every show/movie.
#55
Calleja
Calleja
Maybe, some ... but most other mysteries would have had lame answers, none that would please us all.. so leaving it unanswered is better.
#56
SpecialKO
SpecialKO
I have to admit, it would have been pretty awesome if Jacob and Locke Robster had been revealed to be aliens, and were taken away by the government for dissection in the last 5 minutes.
#57
Reboneer
Reboneer
That was the foot of the Taweret statue, which presumably had four toes because hippos have four toes (or at least that's what everyone assumed when we found out the statues identity - seems reasonable to me).Wait, the four fingered foot doesn't matter?!
#58
Calleja
Calleja
So.. it doesn't matter? GASP!
#59
Joe Johnson
Joe Johnson
Well, some things matter to some, others don't. I guess it's the same as your answer about leaving some things unanswered, since many wouldn't be satisfied anyway.
For instance, I didn't really care whether or not Sayid got back together with Shannon because >gasp< it didn't matter. In fact, I'd rather he got back together with the woman he'd been pining for the last 6 seasons.
Anyway, like I mentioned before, this season was pretty meh for me, I don't feel strongly either way (ie - I'm not about to start a website to "finish the mysteries like they should have been").
To me it's not the fact that they didn't answer some of the questions. Just the fact that they put some of this stuff in the show let me use my imagination to think about what the history of the island was, etc. I realized that the reason I felt meh about the last season is that the show shifted focus. What I enjoyed about the show was the weird stuff. Remember how frickin' cool the first few seasons were? The numbers? what the heck was this monster? Who were these hillbilly like Others? Who the heck is this Ethan character who seems almost inhuman? etc, etc.
The turning point for me was once they introduced Jacob in that shack. They seemed to change the dynamic of the show from one of oddball, cool mysterious stuff that you only ever get to see in comics or books, to a fairly straightforward "battle between good and evil".
I guess what I'm saying is, I don't have a huge stake in the discussion as far as "Ohmygod theendingwasfuckingawesome!", or "Whatfuckers,theydidn'tanswermahquestionsfuckthemIwasted6years!!!!"
I fall in the middle.
I suppose to stay on topic I'll just say this. The finale was pretty emotional, and really did a good job of wrapping up all the storylines the way they had progressed the last few years. Did it answer "all the questions"? No, but it DID answer some, and it was in-line with the theme of the show during the last half of its run.
For instance, I didn't really care whether or not Sayid got back together with Shannon because >gasp< it didn't matter. In fact, I'd rather he got back together with the woman he'd been pining for the last 6 seasons.
Anyway, like I mentioned before, this season was pretty meh for me, I don't feel strongly either way (ie - I'm not about to start a website to "finish the mysteries like they should have been").
To me it's not the fact that they didn't answer some of the questions. Just the fact that they put some of this stuff in the show let me use my imagination to think about what the history of the island was, etc. I realized that the reason I felt meh about the last season is that the show shifted focus. What I enjoyed about the show was the weird stuff. Remember how frickin' cool the first few seasons were? The numbers? what the heck was this monster? Who were these hillbilly like Others? Who the heck is this Ethan character who seems almost inhuman? etc, etc.
The turning point for me was once they introduced Jacob in that shack. They seemed to change the dynamic of the show from one of oddball, cool mysterious stuff that you only ever get to see in comics or books, to a fairly straightforward "battle between good and evil".
I guess what I'm saying is, I don't have a huge stake in the discussion as far as "Ohmygod theendingwasfuckingawesome!", or "Whatfuckers,theydidn'tanswermahquestionsfuckthemIwasted6years!!!!"
I fall in the middle.
I suppose to stay on topic I'll just say this. The finale was pretty emotional, and really did a good job of wrapping up all the storylines the way they had progressed the last few years. Did it answer "all the questions"? No, but it DID answer some, and it was in-line with the theme of the show during the last half of its run.
#60
Soliloquy
Just found this.
Soliloquy
Just found this.
#61
@Li3n
@Li3n
Well that's exactly the problem, it would have been better if they didn't add mysteries that they couldn't explain in a satisfactory way in the first place.Maybe, some ... but most other mysteries would have had lame answers, none that would please us all.. so leaving it unanswered is better.
#62
Hailey Knight
Winner!
Hailey Knight
Well that's exactly the problem, it would have been better if they didn't add mysteries that they couldn't explain in a satisfactory way in the first place.[/QUOTE]Maybe, some ... but most other mysteries would have had lame answers, none that would please us all.. so leaving it unanswered is better.
Winner!
#63
SpecialKO
I know that's why I get pissed at science textbooks all the time.
Seriously, though, while there is some truth to this, it's also true that we don't actually want our mysteries resolved. Just look at magic acts. We want to be entertained. We don't want the tricks to be explained, we just want the payoff from the setup to be amazing. So I guess what it comes down to is whether you, individually, were sufficiently entertained enough by the payoff that the setup was worth it, and the Lost writers' ability to judge what kind of payoff the audience wanted is the real measure of success for the show, whatever other flaws it had.
SpecialKO
Well that's exactly the problem, it would have been better if they didn't add mysteries that they couldn't explain in a satisfactory way in the first place.[/QUOTE]Maybe, some ... but most other mysteries would have had lame answers, none that would please us all.. so leaving it unanswered is better.
I know that's why I get pissed at science textbooks all the time.
Seriously, though, while there is some truth to this, it's also true that we don't actually want our mysteries resolved. Just look at magic acts. We want to be entertained. We don't want the tricks to be explained, we just want the payoff from the setup to be amazing. So I guess what it comes down to is whether you, individually, were sufficiently entertained enough by the payoff that the setup was worth it, and the Lost writers' ability to judge what kind of payoff the audience wanted is the real measure of success for the show, whatever other flaws it had.
#64
Calleja
Calleja
@li3n, escushion... you, too, missed the point of Lost entirely. I'm sorry about that.
#65
Chazwozel
That aside, you can find THOUSANDS of complaining and being overly analytical over EVERYTHING ever created on TV or cinema whilst surfing the internet.
Chazwozel
I love how you're terrified of me enough to confine yourself to the media section of the forum and anticipate for me to chop through your bones at any moment in a thread. Seriously, I just came at the thought of you cowering in the corner of your room wishing for me to just stop being such a meanie head. That's why you tend to lump me into all of your little retorts isn't it? Even when I barely make an appearance in a thread? You're scared of the big, mean internet person? Grow up.Ok answer me this.
If I am so entirely fucking wrong about Lost, how come there are THOUSANDS of other fans across the Internet, across the entire globe, that agree with me?
Read DarkUfo, read 4815162342.com, read AintItCoolNew's forums/talkback, read the fucking New York Times. I am not disputing your opinion but you have to at least fucking admit, there are a fuck ton of people out there that agree with me.
If it was just a handful of the fanbase, ok sure I could understand me being completely out of my mind and missing the point of the show. But when there are this many people who think the same thing I do, how can all of us be wrong?
I just wanted answers. Thats all, some simple answers. Pose a question, give an answer. I've never blindly followed a tv show and been so let down. Never.
So, do your worst. Flame, belittle me, whatever makes ya happy, go for it. I'm sure Chaz will jump in any second, the shark avatar and all can probably smell the blood in the water, so to speak.
That aside, you can find THOUSANDS of complaining and being overly analytical over EVERYTHING ever created on TV or cinema whilst surfing the internet.
#66
Hailey Knight
Hailey Knight
Again, never watched Lost. I just think you have your storytelling backwards, i.e. character development is for the purpose of caring about them at the ending (as opposed to developing characters to care about and then finding a good end for them) and mysteries shouldn't be answered if they have poor explanations (as opposed to having an answer and then shrouding it in mystery or giving clues).@li3n, escushion... you, too, missed the point of Lost entirely. I'm sorry about that.
#67
Calleja
Calleja
OH MY GOD HOW DOES SUPERMAN FLY, THAT'S PHYSICALLY IMPOSSIBLE NO MATTER HOW POWERFUL HE IS, IS HE SUPER FARTING AND BEING PROPELLED BY KRYPTONIAN FLATULENCE!?
Oh, wait, it doesn't matter how he flies, just that he does.
Oh, wait, it doesn't matter how he flies, just that he does.
#68
Hailey Knight
And it's also irrelevant to what I said; you have your storytelling backwards. Like coming up with a scene of a character dying, and then thinking "I'd better tell people about this character's life so they'll care about his death." When a good storyteller should be writing an interesting character, and that character will have an ending. Same with a mystery. For Lost, it's as "Add this in because it's interesting, and we'll figure out an explanation for it later" (which they didn't, but that would be a sensible mentality) when a good storyteller will come up with a phenomenon, or a cause to a crime if it's that kind of mystery, and then think of what clues to leave.
In fact, what it looks like is Lost did with its mysteries what it should've done with its characters, and did with its characters what it should've done with its mysteries (if what you say about them knowing the ending from the start of the show is true). Which I suppose is novel all by itself, though I can't blame anyone for pointing out flimsiness. They'll have to do so though--I've not watched the show. I just keep seeing big, gaping holes in the logic of both Mav's and your arguments against each other. Maybe mushing the arguments together would create something seamless.
I'm afraid you'll need to make love to Mav for this to ever work, and perhaps prevent his website from needing to exist. I'm sorry. Weeping would not looked down upon.
Hailey Knight
That's a terrible example, because there is an explanation. He has powers given to him by being an alien under our yellow sun. Does it hold up scientifically? Obviously not. But it's an explanation. His flight is not a mystery. To put it in Lost perspective, it'd be like the people on the island suddenly see a man flying through the sky. There's no explanation to who he is, why he did it. He was just there, and they experienced seeing it.OH MY GOD HOW DOES SUPERMAN FLY, THAT'S PHYSICALLY IMPOSSIBLE NO MATTER HOW POWERFUL HE IS, IS HE SUPER FARTING AND BEING PROPELLED BY KRYPTONIAN FLATULENCE!?
Oh, wait, it doesn't matter how he flies, just that he does.
And it's also irrelevant to what I said; you have your storytelling backwards. Like coming up with a scene of a character dying, and then thinking "I'd better tell people about this character's life so they'll care about his death." When a good storyteller should be writing an interesting character, and that character will have an ending. Same with a mystery. For Lost, it's as "Add this in because it's interesting, and we'll figure out an explanation for it later" (which they didn't, but that would be a sensible mentality) when a good storyteller will come up with a phenomenon, or a cause to a crime if it's that kind of mystery, and then think of what clues to leave.
In fact, what it looks like is Lost did with its mysteries what it should've done with its characters, and did with its characters what it should've done with its mysteries (if what you say about them knowing the ending from the start of the show is true). Which I suppose is novel all by itself, though I can't blame anyone for pointing out flimsiness. They'll have to do so though--I've not watched the show. I just keep seeing big, gaping holes in the logic of both Mav's and your arguments against each other. Maybe mushing the arguments together would create something seamless.
I'm afraid you'll need to make love to Mav for this to ever work, and perhaps prevent his website from needing to exist. I'm sorry. Weeping would not looked down upon.
#69
Element 117
Element 117
I see your point Tekeo, I'm just afraid alot of shows/stories take the mystery as icing red herring as an easy cop out to developing characters through plots that actually have some idea of cause, effect, and consequence. If the mystery is "how does the warp drive work?," then you're right, we don't need to know. But if the mystery impacts the existence/fabric of the characters, then it had better be a damned good character study to not make sense.
#70
Null
Null
I stopped watching after the season 3 finale. I was usually at work when it was on and I just didn't feel like trying to catch up. For me, it was always about the characters. I guess I missed some of the mysteries on the island, but basically I liked seeing how the characters interacted. Sawyer, for instance, was generally a dick, and intentionally so, but he had enough good qualities to balance it out, and the other characters acknowledged it.
#71
@Li3n
Frankly i'm bored of good character stuff being used to excuse shoddy writing in other areas...
That and the ending in the purgatory church probably gave me diabetes...
@Li3n
Actually it's more like my fear of what Lost was going to be about came true...@li3n, escushion... you, too, missed the point of Lost entirely. I'm sorry about that.
Frankly i'm bored of good character stuff being used to excuse shoddy writing in other areas...
That and the ending in the purgatory church probably gave me diabetes...
Actually the ending they knew about was just Jack dying in the same place he woke up at the start of the show...(if what you say about them knowing the ending from the start of the show is true).