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Ok. this is NOT another LoTRO bashing. I recently activate my account with WoW for Cataclysm. I use to enjoy playing a lot (solo mainly for the story and random PuG for lower level dungeons) except right now I'm not feeling it. It is kinda blah to me now vs LoTRO.

I do love some of the stuff LoTRO offers.

1. Free to Play - is a nice feature and WoW will never have that. so lets move on.
2. Group Instant teleport to instance- I love this in LoTRO. I haven't try dungeon finder yet (I heard it is the same thing) but you have to "discover it" first before you can initiate it, in LoTRO you don't have to.
3. Account wide Bank - this should be #1 for me. I am a crafter and I am a pack mule. I love to store stuff. I miss the feature that I can drop a tons of materials in account wide bank and have my alt pick it up and work with it. LoTRO has character bank and account wide bank. Later they do have Guild Banks (once you get a house)
4. Housings - I don't use it as much, but it is nice to have (all instance which is awesome)

It is funny that I use to compare stuff to WoW that how is it is "all that" but I guess after years of playing and taking a break (for 1.5 years) I think I just lost my taste in WoW. Maybe another break might change my mind.

Free To Play = Less content coming in less frequently. So I'm happy to pay the WoW fees.

Group Teleport to Instance = Hated when they implemented it to WoW, I think it's so lazy and pulls from the experience that everyone just sits in a main town and dissapears and reappears for instances. I'm glad that after they added it, they required you to visit it at least once.

3: Account Wide Bank - not a big enough feature for me to need on WoW, considering all the slots available for bank alts and the instant mail transfer system.

Housing/Costume Viewing Gear instead of Stat Gear - I will agree that I would like both of these features in WoW, but most likely will not see them soon, if ever.

Group Teleport to Instance:

As far as I can tell in WoW, you don't have to discover the dungeon to do it. You can open the dungeon finder, select the dungeons you want, and then the first one that has a group ready will alert you and teleport you there. You can even do quests in between, because when the dungeon is finished, it'll teleport you right back to where you were previously.

Jiarn: yea I agree that some of the reasons above is not for everyone, but I hate to spend money mailing stuff back and forth (I know it is not much it is the principle of the thing)

Also: I gave LotRO a try, played it for about a week, and felt the entire time that it was very boring and uneventful. It could be that I just didn't get it, but it wasn't for me.

And then Cataclysm came out, and WoW turned awesome, so... yeah.

The new Cataclysm instances, require you to visit and zone into them once Ravenpoe.

Well, none of the oldworld, burning crusade, or lich king instances require that.

Ravenpoe said:

Also: I gave LotRO a try, played it for about a week, and felt the entire time that it was very boring and uneventful. It could be that I just didn't get it, but it wasn't for me.

And then Cataclysm came out, and WoW turned awesome, so... yeah.

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Heh. I found it the opposite. I even bought the collector's edition x2 (one for me and my wife)

I don't feel motivated to play like I once did in Lich King. I don't even feel like playing my level 80 Pally (which I had a blast playing)

Ravenpoe said:

Well, none of the oldworld, burning crusade, or lich king instances require that.

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Nope, just the Cataclysm ones.

Jiarn said:

The new Cataclysm instances, require you to visit and zone into them once Ravenpoe.

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For the most part, the questing in each zone leads right to the instance entrances (except Stonecore, which is right at the beginning of Deepholm).

Most of the issues seem rather moot. I agree that an Account Bank would be convenient, but there are so many materials in WoW that unless the account bank is ridiculously large, it wouldn't be enough to handle all the materials and things you would need for alts. You would basically be playing the "swap" game anyways, just like we have to do now with the mailbox, as you lug stuff in an out of the bank to make sure the items you need are open for that character.

Dungeon Group Teleport is already in the game as part of the Dungeon Finder. You only have to discover the high level dungeons, and they did that mostly for gameplay reasons due to issues that appeared when the system was added in 3.3, mainly the fact no one knew how to find the entrances to the Frozen Halls after wiping.

As for instanced housing? No thank you. Blizzard made it clear they wanted to add housing in the past, but realized doing such was going to make it so most people just sat around alone inside an instance with some furniture, making all the cities look like ghost towns. They want the cities to feel like hubs with the streets crawling with players, and instanced housing actually worked counter that goal.

Lastly, WoW will become Free-To-Play someday, they have already been hinting it. The only reason it does not right now is because, really, they don't need to do it. Why remove the $15 fee when people are willing to pay for it, and do by the millions?

Jiarn: actually more and more update are happening in LoTRO while it is free. They are doing free content and paid content. You get more content (over time) cause that is how they make their money.

scytheRexx: it might be free someday (long long time from now) unless a new upcoming MMORPG can rival WoW. None yet, but I can hope!

remember folks, this is from at least 2 years in WoW plus 1.5 years off and about 4 months in LoTRO. I enjoy WoW for a while and gotten at least 4 characters above 70+ (one 80) I just don't feel it, but that is just me. To many cataclysm is a "wow" thing that all is new, but I just don't see it yet. maybe if I play a little longer and see.

Jiarn said:

Free To Play = Less content coming in less frequently. So I'm happy to pay the WoW fees.

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I remember hearing that since they went with the free to play model they've been making way more money then before (wasn't for LotRO, as that just became free, i think they where talking about DDO)

Group Teleport to Instance = Hated when they implemented it to WoW, I think it's so lazy and pulls from the experience that everyone just sits in a main town and dissapears and reappears for instances. I'm glad that after they added it, they required you to visit it at least once.

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Because there's nothing more exciting then siting there with a LFG over your head for a while...
Of course there's nothing wrong with having some of the more complex dungeons require you to find them, maybe even have to sit in front of them while waiting for other players, but making all of them need that is just lame.

As far as I can tell in WoW, you don't have to discover the dungeon to do it. You can open the dungeon finder, select the dungeons you want, and then the first one that has a group ready will alert you and teleport you there. You can even do quests in between, because when the dungeon is finished, it'll teleport you right back to where you were previously.

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When i finally played my free month back in octomber/november (expired like a day before the Cata changes patch came out) there where some dungeons that you needed to find and others that where available by default... of course they where in Horde territory and i was Alliance.

@Li3n;463046][QUOTE=Jiarn said:

Free To Play = Less content coming in less frequently. So I'm happy to pay the WoW fees.

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I remember hearing that since they went with the free to play model they've been making way more money then before (wasn't for LotRO, as that just became free, i think they where talking about DDO)
[/QUOTE]

No, they were talking about LotRO. It's "free" to play, meaning that you can technically do everything free, you can pay to do just about anything faster. Since they went to that model, they've made tons more money than they used to with the subscription model.

Piotyr said:

I remember hearing that since they went with the free to play model they've been making way more money then before (wasn't for LotRO, as that just became free, i think they where talking about DDO)

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No, they were talking about LotRO. It's "free" to play, meaning that you can technically do everything free, you can pay to do just about anything faster. Since they went to that model, they've made tons more money than they used to with the subscription model.

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No, what i meant was that i think i heard them say that about a MMO before LOTRO became free to play a few months back.Of course i could be wrong as from looking around it's been free since September in North America...

D&D Online went free to play a few months before LOTRO and revenue went up. They also made it impossible to really enjoy without buying LOTS of stuff though, as they put a price tag on over half of the content. I think LOTRO is a bit better, in that the only content you HAVE to pay for is the content from it's expansions that came out before they went free to play and maybe the upgrade for carrying more gold. Generally speaking, you'll get more out of it with the normal sub though.

I just really want "Costume Set Visibility" option and housing. It wouldn't make ghost towns, cities already don't matter considering we can just que for dungeons and BGs anywhere. I'd love to have a huge gold sink and new profession just for housing. Even make it like FFXI where some of the housing items give you bonuses in game. 1% xp or 1% honor gained, 1% rep or something.

Jiarn said:

It wouldn't make ghost towns, cities already don't matter considering we can just que for dungeons and BGs anywhere.

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I disagree. Stormwind and Orgrimmar have never looked so alive right now, I actually really enjoy it. Though that sadly does not help the other cities until they add new zone portals to them like Stormwind/Orgrimmar has.

The dungeon queue does not make the cities ghost towns, but personalized housing would, depending on how much they allow us to put inside the house. I really don't think it's worth it, personally, not anymore.

Jiarn said:

I just really want "Costume Set Visibility" option and housing. It wouldn't make ghost towns, cities already don't matter considering we can just que for dungeons and BGs anywhere. I'd love to have a huge gold sink and new profession just for housing. Even make it like FFXI where some of the housing items give you bonuses in game. 1% xp or 1% honor gained, 1% rep or something.

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\
I would friggin love a "Costume Set" option. I would have my Mage decked out in Tier 1 Arcanist set all the time (still my favorite set out of all of them).

I really don't see how "ghost towns" would even matter in WoW at this point.

Jiarn said:

I really don't see how "ghost towns" would even matter in WoW at this point.

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Well why even play a MMO if the entire time you barely if ever see anyone? I think you are really overplaying the amount of people that are taken out of cities due to the dungeon queue. I know I have to sit in the queue for 20-30 minutes, and I spend a lot of that time in the cities getting a few things done that I wanted to do.

So you're saying housing would stop raiding, stop instancing, stop BGing, stop AHing, stop Trade channel talk?

Would stopping /trade talk really be such a bad thing....

It does get interesting and serves a purpose. Simple fix = Housing Instances have Trade/General/Defense chat enabled.

Jiarn said:

So you're saying housing would stop raiding, stop instancing, stop BGing, stop AHing, stop Trade channel talk?

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Not what I said at all, you may want to read my sentences again.

The issue comes down to this. If they add houses, they have to add function/purpose. If they add function, like banking and auctioning, then there is no reason to spend time in the city. Raids will gather in designated houses, while right now they mostly gather in designated cities. People queuing for dungeons or battlegrounds will simply sit around in their house rather then in the street, or just be out farming (which is another thing I do while in the queue). AHing would take place inside the home also, and Trade Chat? That depends if the house counts as inside the city as an instance. Trade Chat in general is a non-issue since it can be disabled anytime it annoys you.

Once again, it comes down to purpose. They need a reason to put the large amount of resources required to make housing viable. That means it needs to serve a purpose. Housing without the services of the city serves no purpose, and one with them removes the purpose of cities in the first place.

The game has had files showing that they planned a housing district since the game was released, they scrapped the idea in part because they realized they would be making it without function, and so resources better spent on new true-game content became the priority. I would be happy with just a costume designer, since it can use resources already imbued into the system, but housing at this point is either doing to ruin cities, or become something so frivolous that it won't be worth the development time.

I don't recall saying anything about adding banks or an auction house to the actual housing.

I never said it was a massive resource hog either. It is simply a flight of fantasy that most likely will never see the light of day.

Housing without purpose = no point.

Might as well only make 1 singular mount that can be ridable, no vanity pets, no vanity items, no costume visbility slots, no achievements, etc etc etc if No function = no point.

Jiarn said:

Might as well only make 1 singular mount that can be ridable, no vanity pets, no vanity items, no costume visbility slots, no achievements, etc etc etc if No function = no point.

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A few issues with your examples.

1) Mounts obviously serve a heavy purpose. The reason we are given various looks to our mounts is because adding mounts is not difficult. Often times it requires taking a creature already in the game as a monster, and then saying "let's add a saddle to it". Even the new Horde and Alliance Guild mounts started out as just new creature models, we already obviously had the drakes, and even the camel was designed to be a monster first and a mount second. In the end, no matter how it looks, the mount serves a function.

2) Cosmetic Pets used to not serve much of a point other then collection, but Blizzard has drafted into the system the ability to call merchants, banks, mailboxes, and other items. Even if we don't count that, the resource requirement to make a hedgehog or an armadillo is low. The few times they put a lot of effort into pets they add a nice fee to it (Lil' Ragnaros, for instance) and make some money. If they added the same requirement to a housing system (IE real money), they would be berated.

3) Shirt Slots (I guess that is what you mean by costume slots) were added in the game to be another equipment slot, and I remember even getting a shirt in BRD back in the beta that had Intellect on it. Later on during the beta process, Blizzard felt the system was flawed and they wanted to remove a slot. They chose to remove shirts but kept the slot open as a cosmetic option. It was already in the system so they figured they could use it. They didn't add it after the fact from scratch.

As for vanity items, it is true they serve no purpose at all. That is why a lot of players don't really keep them around. However, there is a big difference between adding a new robe skin for a one off holiday, and designing a whole housing system. If they are going to put that much work into a new system, it HAS to serve some type of purpose. This is one of the reasons Dance Studios have been held off for so long, because they realized the work to make it happen, adding all those animations and effects, was not on par with the actual purpose it would ultimately serve as a one off. That is why it still remains on the backburner, most likely never to see the light of day.

Housing's primary purpose has and will always be about three things:

1. ) A place to keep your stuff that isn't a bank. This was vital in Ultima Online if you couldn't cast Portal or Recall, as anywhere you'd want to go was generally far from town. Having a house near a dungeon or a good farming local was always great. However, seeing as everyone has some means of quick travel in WoW, this isn't as vital.

2. ) A place to RP in peace. Being able to act out your characters somewhere you weren't being harassed by idiots is worth it's weight in gold. There are lots of places to RP in City of Heroes, like Pocket D or the Monkey Bar, but having customized bases for it really helped the community have the locations and privacy they wanted. I hear RP isn't big in WoW, but this is a legitimate reason for housing.

3. ) Something to fight over. Towns formed in Shadowbane mainly to allow guilds or groups to control and access zones, as well as sell items. The towns near the best zones had the best items, so everyone would siege each other in order to continue exploiting a zone. This made housing very fun... sure, you might lose your town, but as long as you have it, you'll have great stuff!

Again, your argument boils down to "it takes too many resources" and to that I've already agreed. So not quite sure what you're arguing against at this point.

My point is, it serves as much "purpose" as the examples I listed, to which you, in your examples, agreed with.

The only major reason I'd like to have housing is to have mannequins to display my old epic gear.

That would actually be a pretty neat idea.

I believe housing can serve a purpose. It can be a gold sink.
What can be in the home?
1. Account wide "bank" this will be a place where all your characters can store stuff. This is accessible by your account only.
2. You can hang your trophy that you obtain from quests/mobs (i.e. display your favorite rares on the wall.
3. You can have gatherings. Have a party at your place. Invite people to see your "stuff"
4. Houses can have different sizes (small, med, large, mansion and guild) The larger the home, the more wall and floor for display. You can even customize it.
5. Pay higher upkeeps and have "teleport" stones that requires special ingredient that you can "teleport" to other cities (first you need to visit first) the ingredient has to be in the chest in the house.

What about resources?
It is all bits of numbers to the server. You can have it instance like dungeon. People can have neighborhoods (similar to LoTRO) people can buy/sell homes via the cities they live in (i.e. all the major cities)

How would it work?
Basic home = gold per month (whatever Bliz decides)
higher level homes cost more per month (either method) this will deduct from the your bank account (where you can store gold)
need a chest? cost extra per month
need a teleport? cost more per month
need an instance teleport? this will be tricky, people have to discover the entrance and "collect" item from the instance (once a day or a daily quest for that instance) that way you can teleport to it or bring friends (work for guild level too)

Agree with almost all of that, with the exception of the bank in the home.

I like the idea of having a guild hall. It would be cool to gather your folks in one place and socialize while you are doing some of your town chores or forming a raid.

Stormwind on my server is ridiculous, if you are standing in a town handling your AH transactions or trying to trade in person, you just end up with an ass hat with a Proto-Drake or Mammoth standing on top of you.

Installed LOTRO because of this thread. My brain has obviously been turned to mush by WoW because I can't even get out of the first room I'm in.

Ok, I've figured out LOTRO quite a bit. Rolled me a Minstrel and I entertain people with my lute playing Indiana Jones all day long in Bree.

Adammon said:

Ok, I've figured out LOTRO quite a bit. Rolled me a Minstrel and I entertain people with my lute playing Indiana Jones all day long in Bree.

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LOL. I am loving my Warden and Rune-Keeper.

http://www.gametrailers.com/news/lotro-revenues-triple-after/2861

I actually wonder, besides WoW is any other for pay MMO making money?!

@Li3n said:

http://www.gametrailers.com/news/lotro-revenues-triple-after/2861

I actually wonder, besides WoW is any other for pay MMO making money?!

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I know City of Heroes is doing well, but it gives out tons of free content so the sub isn't too bad. Is EVE a sub game? It seems to be going pretty well. Other than those, I dunno.

Well i was thinking more along the lines of actually good profits, obviously the ones still running are making enough for expenses, salaries and future operating budget.

CoH just released an expansion a few months ago, so they are clearly making enough to finance something like that. Everquest is apparently doing well, as they had another expansion too.

Really, it's a bit unfair to compare WoW to anything else. Even back in the days of Everquest being #1, the total number of subs was still within a few thousand of the next competitor (Ultima Online). WoW's numbers are anomalous to the history of MMOs. There's been nothing like it, ever.

There are many nitch game out there. A lot of "Free to play" MMOs are Asian base. There is a lot of those and are pretty popular. (I can't name them at this time) but if you want to compare sub to sub, then WoW is the largest of all time IMO. UO and EQ (one of the first) doesn't even come close to that number (at least I don't remember)

EVE is a sub game, but I think it is steady around 50k players on a single universe (i.e. only one realm base)

Just to offer a little diversity, I play a free to play MUD (That's a text based game) and willingly pay a $20/month premium membership for bonuses that could be obtained for free in game, though over a longer period of time.

To reiterate, I pay -more- per month than WoW for a TEXT BASED GAME.

... I'm not really sure where I was going with this, except now I'm starting to feel a little gipped.

On another note, I've always wanted to ask Chibi this. Is the center figure in your signature image supposed to be you, and why is everyone else in the image looking at your junk?

Ravenpoe said:

Just to offer a little diversity, I play a free to play MUD (That's a text based game) and willingly pay a $20/month premium membership for bonuses that could be obtained for free in game, though over a longer period of time.

To reiterate, I pay -more- per month than WoW for a TEXT BASED GAME.

... I'm not really sure where I was going with this, except now I'm starting to feel a little gipped.

On another note, I've always wanted to ask Chibi this. Is the center figure in your signature image supposed to be you, and why is everyone else in the image looking at your junk?

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Center picture is me. Maron (my wife) drew it. I am not sure why they are looking at my junk (they are suppose to look at me I guess)

as for being gipped, I don't think so. People are willing to pay a higher price for a "quality" game (that is subjective to many) there are some games I am willing to shell out extra bucks for and some I won't.

Yeah, I don't actually feel gipped. If I did I wouldn't pay it. I pay it because I love the game, and because I like to show my support. I've played it off and on for nearly 10 years.

Ahh, I may get some shit for being overly PC, but could we maybe cool it using the word gypped?

drifter said:

Ahh, I may get some shit for being overly PC, but could we maybe cool it using the word gypped?

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Fine, I feel like I'm getting jewed.

Okay then

Yes...It's more PC to say you got ferengied.

Wait, what's uncool about jipped? Is it some kind of Gypsy thing?

Adammon said:

Wait, what's uncool about jipped? Is it some kind of Gypsy thing?

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Yes

Well, that's gay.

Adammon said:

Wait, what's uncool about jipped? Is it some kind of Gypsy thing?

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really? I didn't know that.
I guess I'm more thick skin than others but it never bother me when people use asian slurs on me. If done, properly it is even funny!!